Personally I went away from Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief a while back because she was just so mana intensive to really utilize. I think she is still decent but you might also test Sheoldred, Whispering One in her place. I was originally against utilizing her but she does some decent work especially when paired with some recursion. Against hexproof voltron is where she really shines but I think she is still a fairly good value engine all around.
Disciple of Bolas goes back and forth for me as well. I ended up cutting him from my list because I rarely had disposable creatures that would give me a good number of cards. Low creature counts + utility based creatures makes him a bit awkward.
Rescue from the Underworld was always awkward for me as well. It exiles itself so you can only use it once and it has a delay which can be incredibly awkward if someone does something on your turn to a creature you want to keep. I ended up cutting it myself due to just odd timing in general with it as well as needing two targets and it exiles itself when it resolves.
Personally I went away from Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief a while back because she was just so mana intensive to really utilize. I think she is still decent but you might also test Sheoldred, Whispering One in her place. I was originally against utilizing her but she does some decent work especially when paired with some recursion. Against hexproof voltron is where she really shines but I think she is still a fairly good value engine all around.
Disciple of Bolas goes back and forth for me as well. I ended up cutting him from my list because I rarely had disposable creatures that would give me a good number of cards. Low creature counts + utility based creatures makes him a bit awkward.
Rescue from the Underworld was always awkward for me as well. It exiles itself so you can only use it once and it has a delay which can be incredibly awkward if someone does something on your turn to a creature you want to keep. I ended up cutting it myself due to just odd timing in general with it as well as needing two targets and it exiles itself when it resolves.
Rescue from the Underworld and Bone Dancer are the things I probably won't end up cutting, since they are in the decks just because I like them mechanically (and have a pretty foil of Rescue).
I'll keep Disciple and Drana in mind while I keep on testing.
It looks like it isn't isolated for me.... I am going to bring that one to Feyd.
Both of those options would be solid picks. Picking up another tutor could also be an option for you such as Diabolic Intent or Beseech the Queen. I don't see anything that looks like it has to make the list that is differing between our lists.
It looks like it isn't isolated for me.... I am going to bring that one to Feyd.
Both of those options would be solid picks. Picking up another tutor could also be an option for you such as Diabolic Intent or Beseech the Queen. I don't see anything that looks like it has to make the list that is differing between our lists.
Yeah. I have hard time trying to figure out what to cut, since I haven't had enough chances to properly play test everything (there are some cards I haven't still seen a single time, like Oversold Cemetary and Withering Boon).
But, if you think of something that might not be a good idea (or something that makes you think "why?"), let me know.
That is what this thread starts with for me. Assuming I am just getting odd stuff here I might have to report it to Feyd to see if its something I am just getting due to my position or what. It looks super funky though.
EDIT: I tried logging out and it looks the same to me. Perhaps its a browser thing. Let me check that.
Okay, that's weird. I see normal deck list with no problems.
Also, I've been thinking of cutting Boon of Erebos and something else, but have hard times choosing what. (I'm planning to try Jet Medallion and Word of Command.)
BUUUUUUUUUUR! Nice deck. I haven't looked at ISB's list or anything, but it looks like you have a good handle on how to build Toshiro. Just a few things I'd like to get your opinion on.
Animate Dead is the main piece to use with Entomb. Plus, it's cheap recursion
Damnation is kind of a staple... I'm just surprised it's not in here. Is there a reason for this?
Grave Pact is some serious Black stax, and it contributes a LOT to devotion, which seems to be somewhat important based on your spells and Nykthos. In any case, it pretty much guarantees the board stays clear when used properly (i.e., with High Market, or any other sac engine).
Dark Ritual is an instant (and can thus be regained with Toshiro) as well as early ramp. Not always stunning in mid- to late-game, but it can boost you to right mana level really cheaply, so you can hang onto some instant-speed removal or drop a bomb.
Caged Sun, Gauntlet of Power, and Jet Medallion are mana doublers and reducers, which is sooo necessary for mono-coloured decks. They can all be recurred with Beacon of Unrest, too. As long as you don't over-extend, which would be unlikely given the nature of the control deck, these are EDH mono-coloured gold. Plus, the Sun and Gauntlet power up your creatures.
Boseiju, I think, is a must for any deck that can't protect itself from counters... I guess it depends on the meta, though. I'm just used to playing against at least 2 other Blue decks at any time O_O;
Argentum Armor, though excellent removal, costs too much (12, including equip) and you don't have a lot of ways to cheat it out (mostly just Beacon of Unrest.
Burnished Hart is fine ramp if you didn't have access to mana reducers (Jet Medallion, which NEEDS to be in any mono-Black deck) and mana doublers.
Stinkweed Imp is a little weak in comparison to your other creatures. It only really functions as a blocker (which is fine, since it's got flying), and I'm not sure how much you plan to abuse Dredge... I would expect a few more dredge cards at least if you were.
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Overall, though, I really like the deck. It looks fun, interesting, and challenging to play and to play against. Keep us updated with testing results.
Firstly, the ISB's list can be found via the the link at the top of the page...
Argentum Armor: Even though it is expansive, it is one of the few ways to remove enchantments and artifacts in mono-B.
Burnished Hart: Since ramp is good and it counts as a creature, why not. I like this card more than many other cards that have been released in recent years.
Stinkweed Imp: He's a dredge-enabler (and a good one), but he's no way necessary.
Your suggestions:
Jet Medallion: I thought about it, but ended up cutting it, when I still had few too many cards...
Boseiju: I doubt he'd be that useful in this deck, since at my meta counter-based controls are quite rare (= there is exactly one + few decks with few counters).
Gauntlet/Caged Sun: I don't like Gauntlet, but Caged Sun is actually good... I wonder how that slipped my mind, considering that I run it almost every EDH I have...
Dark Ritual: Since I just don't like mana rituals in EDH. I like them in Legacy, but not in EDH.
Damnation: I considered it, but since the deck has already quite a lot removal, and mutilate usually removes indestructible things, I picked it over Damnation this time.
Grave Pact: I should actually play it in this... But firstly, I need to find 8th version of that, since I dislike the other arts.
Oh, and just so that you know, this deck is not exactly stax. It's more like... UB-control disguised as mono-B deck.
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Posted Oct 20, 2014-
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Posted Oct 20, 2014Disciple of Bolas goes back and forth for me as well. I ended up cutting him from my list because I rarely had disposable creatures that would give me a good number of cards. Low creature counts + utility based creatures makes him a bit awkward.
Rescue from the Underworld was always awkward for me as well. It exiles itself so you can only use it once and it has a delay which can be incredibly awkward if someone does something on your turn to a creature you want to keep. I ended up cutting it myself due to just odd timing in general with it as well as needing two targets and it exiles itself when it resolves.
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Posted Oct 20, 2014Rescue from the Underworld and Bone Dancer are the things I probably won't end up cutting, since they are in the decks just because I like them mechanically (and have a pretty foil of Rescue).
I'll keep Disciple and Drana in mind while I keep on testing.
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Posted Oct 20, 2014Both of those options would be solid picks. Picking up another tutor could also be an option for you such as Diabolic Intent or Beseech the Queen. I don't see anything that looks like it has to make the list that is differing between our lists.
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Posted Oct 20, 2014Yeah. I have hard time trying to figure out what to cut, since I haven't had enough chances to properly play test everything (there are some cards I haven't still seen a single time, like Oversold Cemetary and Withering Boon).
But, if you think of something that might not be a good idea (or something that makes you think "why?"), let me know.
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Posted Oct 20, 2014That is what this thread starts with for me. Assuming I am just getting odd stuff here I might have to report it to Feyd to see if its something I am just getting due to my position or what. It looks super funky though.
EDIT: I tried logging out and it looks the same to me. Perhaps its a browser thing. Let me check that.
EDIT 2: Nope, it looks the same to me.
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Posted Oct 20, 2014Also, I've been thinking of cutting Boon of Erebos and something else, but have hard times choosing what. (I'm planning to try Jet Medallion and Word of Command.)
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Posted Mar 6, 2014Why no...?:
Animate Dead is the main piece to use with Entomb. Plus, it's cheap recursion
Damnation is kind of a staple... I'm just surprised it's not in here. Is there a reason for this?
Grave Pact is some serious Black stax, and it contributes a LOT to devotion, which seems to be somewhat important based on your spells and Nykthos. In any case, it pretty much guarantees the board stays clear when used properly (i.e., with High Market, or any other sac engine).
Dark Ritual is an instant (and can thus be regained with Toshiro) as well as early ramp. Not always stunning in mid- to late-game, but it can boost you to right mana level really cheaply, so you can hang onto some instant-speed removal or drop a bomb.
Caged Sun, Gauntlet of Power, and Jet Medallion are mana doublers and reducers, which is sooo necessary for mono-coloured decks. They can all be recurred with Beacon of Unrest, too. As long as you don't over-extend, which would be unlikely given the nature of the control deck, these are EDH mono-coloured gold. Plus, the Sun and Gauntlet power up your creatures.
Boseiju, I think, is a must for any deck that can't protect itself from counters... I guess it depends on the meta, though. I'm just used to playing against at least 2 other Blue decks at any time O_O;
Cards I'm not so sure about:
Argentum Armor, though excellent removal, costs too much (12, including equip) and you don't have a lot of ways to cheat it out (mostly just Beacon of Unrest.
Burnished Hart is fine ramp if you didn't have access to mana reducers (Jet Medallion, which NEEDS to be in any mono-Black deck) and mana doublers.
Stinkweed Imp is a little weak in comparison to your other creatures. It only really functions as a blocker (which is fine, since it's got flying), and I'm not sure how much you plan to abuse Dredge... I would expect a few more dredge cards at least if you were.
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Overall, though, I really like the deck. It looks fun, interesting, and challenging to play and to play against. Keep us updated with testing results.
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Posted Mar 6, 2014Argentum Armor: Even though it is expansive, it is one of the few ways to remove enchantments and artifacts in mono-B.
Burnished Hart: Since ramp is good and it counts as a creature, why not. I like this card more than many other cards that have been released in recent years.
Stinkweed Imp: He's a dredge-enabler (and a good one), but he's no way necessary.
Your suggestions:
Jet Medallion: I thought about it, but ended up cutting it, when I still had few too many cards...
Boseiju: I doubt he'd be that useful in this deck, since at my meta counter-based controls are quite rare (= there is exactly one + few decks with few counters).
Gauntlet/Caged Sun: I don't like Gauntlet, but Caged Sun is actually good... I wonder how that slipped my mind, considering that I run it almost every EDH I have...
Dark Ritual: Since I just don't like mana rituals in EDH. I like them in Legacy, but not in EDH.
Damnation: I considered it, but since the deck has already quite a lot removal, and mutilate usually removes indestructible things, I picked it over Damnation this time.
Grave Pact: I should actually play it in this... But firstly, I need to find 8th version of that, since I dislike the other arts.
Oh, and just so that you know, this deck is not exactly stax. It's more like... UB-control disguised as mono-B deck.