A New and Exciting Beginning
 
The End of an Era
 
Exclusive: Sword of Truth and Justice
  • posted a message on [[Official]] ZOMBIEZ.DEC
    Quote from Ryoin
    Hey, could we agree to the splitting of the zombies thread into the 3 potential archetypes of Bx Zombie Swarm, UB Skaab, and UB Zombie Combos? Then we could have relevant discussions about the appropriate decks without causing so much clutter. If needed, I could start new threads. I think this one's pretty devoted to the Bx Swarm deck, so just ones for Skaab and Combo. Sound good?


    Somewhere inside the Bx crowd (I'm assuming that's where I stand) there is an Aggro crowd and a "mid-range to control crowd". Just want to get that out there.

    Zombies are very very versatile; there will be a huge number of potential decks that come forth from them. The mods will likely not split the thread until one of the decks shows that it's worth something (everyone pray it's your own ;)). So until Zombies make a showing, this thread likely won't change.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [[Official]] ZOMBIEZ.DEC
    Quote from Sabre
    I want to express my dissatisfaction with just locking "the old zombies! thread". This thread is totally different and there was live discusion in that old thread. It should be moved here.



    Okaaay, some thoughts of mine.

    First of - I wouldn't mix Skaabs and Zombies. They are antisynergic. Skaabs want to exile things from GY, Zombies want things in GY. You can mix them so that they do not interfere as much, but you won't get full potential from Skaabs. To play Skaabs well you would need blue selfmill creature heavy deck.


    Manabase:
    I wouldn't play Evolving Wilds, at least not 4-of. In two-color deck with two different dual lands this is not the greatest idea. It's worse than both dual lands in any case.

    Creatures:
    1CMC
    Gravecrawler and Diregraf Ghoul are obvious, however I don't think that 4-of Diregrafs is a must.
    2CMC
    Now this is hard, because Highborn Ghoul is just bad. Against aggro, and especially RDW, he will die easily because of 1 toughness. Against control decks he does not need intimitade. He's only upside is that he actually can block the turn he came, lol.
    And Screeching Skaab is even worse, so I don't consider him at all. I don't think that in this deck selfmill is a value.
    I really like the idea of Phantasmal Image + Geralf's Messenger. The problem is that you need Messenger on field, so you won't be casting Image T2. And I think we are considering here our T2 drop right?
    Black Cat seems a bit meh too. Its random discard so may turn out well and it will get all tribal-merits, but I think I just prefer Distress.
    Snapcaster Mage is great in this deck, because most of our noncreature spells are <= 2 CMC and he can activate morbid of Tragic Slip. But he is not T2 drop. I guess that for T2 I will be playing noncreature spells. Distress maybe.
    3CMC
    Now this one is crowded as hell.
    I'd get full pack of Messenger's as they seem great and probably six lords. Now which ones are tough call. Probably 4 Diregraf Captain / 2 Cemetery Reaper or 3 / 3. Anyway, I'd put in sideboard enough Cemetery Reapers to have full 4 in 75 total. I'd side in them vs Moorlands or Solar Flares. Problem with Reaper is - as I stated in the begining - that in this deck you don't want to exile things from GY. Gravecrawler returns, Messenger is awesome, Lords are awesome and should be brought back to the battlefield.
    4CMC
    Phyrexian Obliterator, 'nuff said. 3-of probably.
    5CMC
    Grimgrin, Corpse-Born. Not much competition here too tbh. This + lord + gravecrawler is B: target player loses 1 life. I know that this does not sound impressive for a 3 card combo but - this is not a combo deck. This synergy comes naturally by choosing best cards at given CMC slots.
    6CMC+
    Nah, I wouldn't play them. Not really much other than Titan there. We have enough creatures anyway.

    As far as noncreature spells goes, my fav's are:
    Tragic Slip - great great card, especially in meta full of X/1 drops.
    Dismember - I don't agree that it doesn't fit black deck, its non coditional, can be 1 mana, however it does not kill everything... but Tragic Slip does Smile
    Geth's Verdict - kill creature and ping for 1 dmg? With enough of spot removal and aggro attitude this should target the creatures we want and also can kill hexproof things. I think it's better than Go for the Throat, Doom Blade, but should be sided out for Ratchet Bombs if facing tokens.
    Distress - this card is pain in the ass played T2 and is one of our counters to Cage (Steel Sabotage (after sb of course) + Distress?).
    Ghoulcaller's Chant - I think this one should be 3- or 4-of. For merely one mana it get us back to hand two creatures from our GY. You can bring Grimgrin and a lord. Or you can bring Obliterator after it had been countered.
    Undying Evil - this card I am not sure of. Seems neat but I don't think this deck can utilize it to the max.
    Altar's Reap - there has been a discussion on this card in Geralf's Messenger thread and I am not really sure if that card should be included. The truth is that in black there is no good draw atm.
    Mana Leak - if you have blue in deck, you must have mana leaks

    Other thingies:
    I don't like planeswalkers. I don't like Liliana in this deck. I don't want to discard cards and for removal I have better options.
    I don't like Zombie Infestation. Same reasons as above. I think there are not enough worthy cards to be discarded. Only Gravecrawlers tbh.

    Also mono black is an option too. Blue doesn't add that much to the party except of some countering, Grimgin and the lord.

    If mono black I'd go with 4x Obliterators, some Lashwrithes (maybe 2-3) and Vengeful Pharaoh. Instead of Mana Leaks I'd put even more discard and removal.

    GftT maybe should be replaced by Dismember.
    2 CMC creature drop maybe should be replaced by something else.
    These are my main doubts.

    Please let me know what you think, this is important to me as I am pretty new to this game and I'd appreciate any help so I can make better assumptions and better decks in future


    @JollyTheOctopuss: I am pretty sure you meant Geralf's Messenger in your decklist, right?


    Non-red zombies have spot removals for Inquisitor. Thraben Heretic will have to be spot removed too, however Mirran Crusader will certainly be very painful. But nothing we can't handle with Black Sun's Zenith Grin (i know it's kinda suicide ;))

    Quoted for Truth! That's QFT. And thank you for reposting this, a primer of sorts is quite nice.

    I'll repeat myself (plus some) in response to your missing creatures. (Also because of the thread lock.)

    Spellskite is going to be our best two drop. We want a creature that can keep us alive until we can really just unleash a stupid amount of power (unless you are aggro :facepalm:). To top it off Mikaeus, the Unhallowed (the missing six drop) and Spellskite protect each other with a very good amount of synergy.

    Adding Snapcaster will be next to useless because we won't have to many spells to flashback and he is a Human with no synergy. Image is good, I like that plan but is it enough two drops? Everything else looks very lack luster at the two drop spot.

    At the three drop Diregraf Captain is literally your best choice. Unbreathing Horde is good but only in the Red Zone (or blocking); the Captain makes all your Zombies into life points for your opponent. Get twenty Zombies killed in the presence of a Captain, win. I know that's quite a few, but you will also undoubtedly be doing other things (like winning the board).

    Did I mention Mikaeus, the Unhallowed?

    Black Sun's Zenith is a boon to a mid-range Zombie deck, it kills the whole board! Zombies are already dead, so they shouldn't mind being dead; that's why we have one or two copies of Zombie Apocalypse, or Mikaeus, the Unhallowed.

    I ripped your deck out:

    I'd probably move mpost of the removal suit to the SB, Zombies will just have more guys so theirs will not matter. Bring in more Negate (maybe even Mana Leak) to protect yourself from not creatures. I like Distress, though I'm sad Despise is not Duress (Curse you format!!)

    Anyway, I like the general idea; just think it needs some key changes.

    This list will put you pretty close to having as much creature attrition as possible while keeping a good curve with relevant drops all the way up to Mikaeus, the Unhallowed. The Dragonskulls are obviously just a gambit.

    Did I mention Mikaeus, the Unhallowed?
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [[Official]] ZOMBIEZ.DEC
    As it stands, I don't think we are aggro. I'm seeing mid-range with an awkward early phase where we basically can't block.

    That said, I'll be main boarding Spellskite as my two drop along side some removal/counter.

    I plan on playing into a defensive mid game opposed to an offensive one, the printing of Geralf's Messenger and Diregraf Captain makes for some nuts life swings just for blocking. The Captain literally makes the deck nearly impossible to board wipe, they risk losing a life for every Zombie killed. Spellskite will jack up my ability to keep the Captains safe, as will Mikaeus (who is the most amazing thing this deck can have).

    Mikaeus, the Unhallowed alone makes Spellskite a four of, the lack of a solid two drop makes Spellskite a two or three of; why aren't we all just planning on playing six to eight Skites?

    Captain turns Grimgrin into a surprise nuke and fatty, Mikaeus allows you to do this while pumping your board instead of killing it, Spellskite protects them all... again. The only hard thing about Spellskite protecting Black creatures is that Doom Blade doesn't matter and Go for the Throat can't redirect to Skite.

    I'm shocked and appalled that every list doesn't just have Mikaeus in it (this was more relevant before the spoiler discussion was closed), he prevents a board wipe!! He. Stops. Day. If they do wipe anyway (because they can double up maybe), they just freaking lost! Captain(s) will blow their faces off.

    I've considered the interactions between Zombie Infestation and Vengeful Pharaoh in that your opponent can attack and you discard in response, but it just seems to cute for the deck. If you would like to try this combo out, I recommend also having Forbidden Alchemy so you can ditch those Pharaoh back in the yard while you dig at instant speed.

    This is how I want to win. The question is how do I get there?

    Diregraf Captain makes Zombies powerful; remember Vengeful Dead? This guy nets you one life less, costs less, and has a lord effect.

    Edit: Heartless Summoning? Don't be silly, I wouldn't play less than three.
    More Editing: Carnifex Demon can't die while Mikaeus is in play, he also resets all the counters on your guys so they can use Undying more. It's not essential, but it could make for some impossibly hard to destroy board positions.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [SCD] Drogskol Captain
    Inb4 price hike of Drogskol Reaver after Consecrated Sphinx rotates!

    I honestly can see a Spirits and Chalice of Life deck forming. "Oh look, I gained life and drew a card! Now you lose five life every turn." Ramp with Pristine Talisman for more card draw when you play the Reaver...
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Deck] Zombies!
    Quote from Sabre

    Creatures:
    2CMC
    Now this is hard, because Highborn Ghoul is just bad. Against aggro and especially RDW he will die easily because of 1 toughness. Against control decks he does not need intimitade. He's only upside is that he actually can block the turn he came, lol.
    And Screeching Skaab is even worse, so I don't consider him at all. I don't think that in this deck selfmill is a value.
    I really like the idea of Phantasmal Image + Geralf's Messenger. The problem is that you need Messenger on field, so you won't be casting Image T2. And I think we are considering here our T2 drop right?
    Black Cat seems a bit meh too. Its random discard so may turn out well and it will get all tribal-merits, but I kinda don't like this card. I just prefer Distress, I guess.
    Snapcaster Mage is great in this deck, because most of our noncreature spells are <= 2 CMC. But he is not T2 too. I guess that for T2 we will be playing noncreature spells. Distress maybe.

    6CMC+
    Nah, I wouldn't play them. Not really much other than Titan there. We have enough creatures anyway.


    At the two drop you forgot Spellskite who combos in a gross way with a six drop named Mikaeus. I honestly don't think this interaction can be ignored. Mikaeus prevents you from getting board wiped and Spellskite is stupid powerful with Undying.

    Edit: I think everything else is sound logic.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Deck] Burning Vengeance
    I honestly don't think we gained anything from the last pot of spoils.

    Burning Oil is cute, but shouldn't we just have better burn if we're going to run it? Will we be splashing a full new color just for the flash back on this one? I'm still looking at the Grotto as a viable land in this deck; since we have nothing to do over three mana, paying the extra one just for a color conversion should be simple.

    I really don't think this replaces Incinerate. I've played a few matches against a Vengeance deck (the guy is a really good pilot), and more than often he is using Incinerate to pull down life totals simply because his opponents never have anything.

    The other cards... Sigh... I wish we just got Firebolt back.

    Edit: One more thing I've had on my mind; since both Ancient Grudge and Ray of Revelation both have G as a flashback, why not just splash Green then discard the Ray if we board it in? It would prevent us from having to splash White, and since enchantments are rare (in use) we would not really be losing out on the first activation. Not to mention the logic behind discarding it is sound. The only drawback is that it would be a dead draw if we didn't have a looting or something.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Deck] Zombies!
    Quote from Smooth Criminal
    The main problem of apocalypse is zombies do not kill on the spot when they come back and opponent has one turn to wipe the board or just kill you with his things. Otherwise it's very close to goblin-bidding of old. Veeeeery close.

    Zombies really need sacrifice outlet like viscera seer for apocalypse to kill. Like super really need it.


    The problem with a board wipe vs Zombies post Apocalypse is that we have the Diregraf Captain to make them lose one life per Zombie killed. So if we revive five Zombies and have two Captains and they wipe, they are losing twelve life (two per non-Captain then one per Captain for not affecting themselves) and I would hope that we could manage to have more than seven Zombies total post Apocalypse. Not to mention we could possibly have Mikaeus on the field to prevent a wipe regardless.

    Ya, they still get a turn to respond with an attack, but if that's the case you probably should have lost anyway.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Deck] Burning Vengeance
    Quote from Second SunSet
    Also gitixian probe/gut shot/ past in flames. Saw that you mentioned testing these together what was the out come? just bad?


    The build up and suddenly nuke them with Past in Flames idea really only works once if at all. The cards that go into it require you to actually have three or more at once to make the whole thing work, so yard hate can destroy you more so than with the non-Past in Flames idea. You also lose out on some dig while you add those nine cards to the deck because you can't sacrifice your counter/removal.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Deck] Zombies!
    Quote from LordxMugen
    how do we feel about Havengeful runebinder in the deck?

    Havengul Runebinder 2UU

    Creature - Human Wizard
    2,U ,tap, Exile a creature card from your graveyard: Put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield, then put a +1/+1 counter on each Zombie creature you control.

    i think it goes great with our other lords and is just a ridiculous card in general for zombies since it both builds our army AND makes them PERMANENTLY stronger.

    I saw the Runbinder and had very mixed feelings. This guy makes us not want to reuse our Zombies*, in addition he cost 4 and is not even threatening. He doesn't add synergy to the deck because he is not a Zombie, but he also adds pump to the deck.

    *Not that we have something like Unholy Grotto to do that with; we'd basically just not be Exiling Gravecrawler, so maybe it's fair game? Time will tell.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [SCD] Curse of Bloodletting
    Quote from ModusPwnens
    No ramp? I think we need ramp. Something instead of the shrines.

    How about Kuldotha Rebirth (for grenade fodder) with Mycosynth Wellspring?


    Ramp? I was going to head in the direction of card draw. Mycosynth just puts the land in your hand; since we are looking aggro/combo, we can't waste a turn on land. If we went Ichor we could be getting answers or lands. Throw in a couple Phyrexia's Core to get the other end of it.

    The curse isn't dead in multiples, Furnace of Rath in a pair multiplied the damage by 4 (Damage*2*2).
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [General] Lets go Humans
    Somewhere in the Doomsayer thread there was talk about a combo between Hex Parasite, Thraben Doomsayer, and Vault of the Archangel.

    You pretty much just attack, then activate the Vault, if everything looks okay you pay the Parasite cost for 0 and 2 life until you're at Fateful Hour for the +2/+2 anthem then Lifelink it all back. Could be bad for the mana base, but it's a thought.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [SCD] Curse of Bloodletting
    Quote from monkeysammich


    That's 32. Need maybe 23 lands... leaving us 5 spots. 3x Incinerate, 2x Chandra the Firebrand ?


    Goblin Wardriver isn't any good. Just go straight for the Lord in Goblin Chieftain, bigger and faster goblins is good.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [SCD] Curse of Bloodletting
    Quote from Turribull
    Okay, there is the absolutely ridiculous way to do 20 damage, utilizing Ghoultree and Fling.
    Or the slightly easier way to do 20 damage using Brimstone Volley and Reverberate.
    Dont think I can fit both into the deck at full capacity...


    Why not? If you are playing the ramp package that duals as speed bumps, you should be able to live that long anyway. Put in some extra burns and sweepers and you'll be fine!
    DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures
    4 Viridian Emissary (mana)
    4 Solemn Simulacrum (mana)
    4 Hellrider (easy extra beats)
    4 Vorapede (beater)
    4 Ghoultree (Fling target)

    Spells
    4 Arc Trail (Board cleaner)
    4 Incinerate (removal)
    4 Fling (finisher)
    4 Brimstone Volley (half finisher)
    4 Curse of Bloodletting (center piece)

    Land
    20 Lands



    Obviously the list is short mana, I'd probably bump it up to 24, but the idea looks solid. At 7 mana you can play the curse and fling all in one turn.

    Edit: I realized after posting this that Hellrider is crazy amazing with Bloodletting.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [General] Lets go Humans
    Do you guys not like Hero of Bladehold? I just assumed since she was human, but also I notice she would cost the most in your curve (barring the Overseer that Zethren said he might drop despite him following it up immediately with "They're really good, and have won me several games.").
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [SCD] Sudden Disappearance
    Dear Players who enjoy White,

    We didn't think you had enough utility even after we gave you Tranquility, a better Disenchant (sorry for giving it to green), Faceless Butcher, Thorn of Amathyst, a one sided City of Solitude, all the non-tribal anthem affects, Gideon Jura, mini Grave Titan, Elesh Norn, Grand Cinobite, Celestial Purge, White Sun's Zenith, Coffin Purge, an answer for everything, and so many more things. So to make up for it, we are giving you a free Alpha Strike on a turn that your aggro decks do not normally use. Instead of dropping another thing to beat face with, just use those highly efficient creatures you played the turns before to immediately win. And if you don't have them anymore just use Sun Titan.

    Love, Wizards.
    _________

    Why? I hate seeing this... It's obviously never going to be more than a two of in a deck and even two is more than you want. If you cast it, it should be a free win in Hero of Bladehold decks. They have given white so much utility it's not even funny... I can't understand why this is here. White doesn't even use half the cards "wizards" mentioned in their letter above. Why do they deserve more? You know what Black can't do? Destroy artifacts or enchantments... Yet White gets to steal their Faceless Butcher.

    Ratchet Bomb, yes I know, but every other color can do something to screw that up (Blue and can Proliferate in response to them tapping for a charge counter to skip their desired target). And Black just got Mikaeus for the only non-Tribal anthem White doesn't have.

    I mostly just don't like White.
    Edit: This will probably not even see standard play.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.