As far as late game goes this deck isn't overpowering, but many times I could finish off my opponent just in time with Guttersnipe. Given Snapcaster Mage a burn spell draw can easily deal 8 damage to your opponent in two turns without any interaction with him. I think if you cannot afford Snapcasters you can consider running more flashback spells. Talrand and Talrand's Innvocation are crazy good with the Pike too.
24 might be too much. I havent 't done the math to be honest with you, but I dont think I will be comfortable if I go below 23. With this deck you want to get to four or five lands consistently when you can start doing multiple things a turn. Drawing too many lands isn't as bad as it looks because you can look to filter them away with desperate ravings or izzet charm. Maybe it is worthwhile to try running 1 desolate lighthouse in the place of a land, or cutting a land for a burn spell or ravings.
I like talrand's invocation as a card. I would consider it more if i run more pikes. It is possibly good against control decks. The problem is it is slow for this deck and not snapcaster friendly.
Guttersnipe is the center piece of this deck. I chose to run a variety of cheap spells trying to maximize the value of Snapcaster mage and Guttersnipe. This deck doesn't overpower opponents but aims to finish him off just in time. Versatility is key. Personally I have a great time playing this deck, in trying to find the best play when you have the choice to draw, burn or bounce etc.
The Cards Creatures - Delver of Secrets I know we don't have ponder anymore but it does has a decent chance to flip, most of the time it just eats removal anyways, which isn't a bad thing. Guttersnipe In this build if it resolves and stay alive in mid game it usually means a whole lot of damage for your opponent. Snapcaster Mage is his best friend. Talrand,Sky Summoner I am not sure about this card. In this deck you are not trying to overrun the board with a gazillion birds. But in testing the extra evasive body or two have won me games.
Spells, not going through all of them only key ones Thought Scour is an absolutely must. The 1 cmc cantrip makes so many things better namely snapcaster. In a strange way it makes Izzet Charm better also. Unsummon I think this card is underrated in this meta. Many prefer cyclonic rift over it. The 1 mana difference is a lot in this deck and we are not looking to use the overload effect. There aren't many non-creature things to bounce anyways.
Burn - Anyone can come up with their own package according to meta. I think the cards most people would argue about is Searing Spear and Devil's play. Searing Spear, the instant speed is largely relevant and it targets creatures and players, Brimstone Volley is more expensive and far less consistent. Devil's play is not terribly exciting but it does add some versatility and flashback is relevant when Guttersnipe or Talrand is in play.
Runechanter's Pike I started with 2 copies but it does require a certain board presence for this card to be really good. It doesn't do a whole lot on non-Delver targets. Treat it as an alternative win con.
Sideboard - Counters are a big part of this sideboard because we are not playing many on the mainboard. Flames of the Firebrand against aggro. Chandra and Jace can hopefully come in as a couple against some decks but to be honest I haven't done much testing with that yet. Thundermaw Hellkite has no synergy with the rest of the cards whatsoever, but it does beat people's faces.
Conclusion I have always thought UR is where Snapcaster can really shine, with the variety of low-cost efficient spells. The problem for this deck the past season is the mana base. Now that is fixed I hope this build can catch on. Any comment is welcomed.
*To the exlusion of bonfire of the damned - I just don't like drawing it in my opening hand or early. Mizzium Mortar is never a bad draw and it does serves as a sweeper. A bonfire in the opening hand is almost an automatic mulligan and if you draw it early in the game when Guttersnipe is not in play it just doesn't do a whole lot. Plus it is un-snap-able.
Thanks for the block decks! I am thinking of going into block constructed this season. By just looking at the spoilers I thought UW control will be a viable archetype in this format.
Red obviously adds a lot of great cards but I am not sure if it is worth the sacrifice on tempo and stability. 8 of the lands are going to come into play tapped 100% of the time, this will be a problem against faster decks.
Your deck is built to fight creature heavy strategies. It has 10+ removal spells I think it is a bit excessive.
What is your take on between UW control and this deck?
I would love to have Aristocrat and Geist, that will push the deck towards aggro which means one would need to make adjustments elsewhere. The four drop slot is already crowded in this list now. Wolfrun is worth consideration and the mana base is probably good enough to support it and Primeval Titan.
As I have said in the original post, I think this archetype is under explored, the list I posted is merely a raw list. I hope there will be more players playing Jund and come up to their own conclusion. That being said I will find the time to come up with a correct mana base shortly...
I think you are right about the birds and Olivia. I am going to keep Garruk Relentless and Liliana of the Veil for now. The just take over games by themselves given the right situation, I would rather consider making adjustments elsewhere first. Pillar of flame is a good idea but I think it belongs to the SB. This deck is already running a ton of sweeps and removals I think I might be over doing in if I play them mainboard, given that I keep Garruk and Lili.
Mainboard Daybreak Ranger is definitely worth considering, maybe in the expense of borderland ranger?
The card draw is obviously very nice. I want to point out I think this deck is less equipped to handle aggro than the Grixis list. I ran into Delver and there just wasn't enough answers. What I am really missing is the early card draw, is there a reason why you leave out ponder? As much as I love desperate ravings, I don't think it is a good fit for your deck as is. I think this deck is less prone to a bad hand or dead card than the Grixis deck but that means a lot of times Ravings will be the dead card. The lack of Snapcaster mage doesn't help the case either...
Another big question mark is Restoration Angel, with the lack of creatures we just aren't using her ability. I would consider running a bonafide finisher instead.
First off I want to say I think Jund is an archetype that is being overlooked and will get better going forward. The decklist I have put together is still very primitive and I have done little testing mainly because I don't have a lot of time to play recently. I hope this post can help stimulate some discussion for players who are interested in this archetype.
Before I go into the deck I have to mention this card - Abundant Growth .... This card allows us to stretch into the colors will need consistently, especially the early double drops. The card draw is definitely awesome, if spreading seas was playable I don't see why this card is not good.
This list is not by any means refined. In a sense it looks like a pile of junk thrown together, but with abundant growth the mana base is more stable than most 3-colored decks and this allows us to play the most powerful cards out of each color with relative consistency.
IMO one of the advantages of this archetype is it allow a lot of room for variation according to personal test and meta. Hope to get some input from you guys.
Some explanation on card choices: Olivia Voldaren -- This card is just great against creatures. Drop it on turn 3, turn 4 and start shooting the aggro guys, or drop it on turn six and shoot something immediately. IMO it's a card that has ton of potential in this creature heavy meta. Wolfir Avenger -- I had Geralf's Messenger in this spot originally, but had trouble getting him out on turn 3 and it doesn't provide the early defense we want. Avenger is arguably the best green 3-drop in standard, it stops most aggro guys outright and most importantly Geist of Saint-Traft. Killing Wave -- This is probably not a very good card but I wanted to give it a try. It adds another dimension to the deck. Can easily be another removal spell or simply a black sun's Zenith. Primeval Titan, Inferno Titan -- This deck can probably support them but I feel it will be simpler to play Gravys and Wurmcoil. Frankly I haven't done much testing.
When Fang of Numai deals damage to a player, you may put a -1/-1 counter on Fang of Numai. If you do, choose any number of players, each of those players discard a card.
I would consider adding mutagenic growth and throne of geth. Mutagenic growth is amazing in any infect deck as once you hit opponent with poison counters he can never ever get them off. 2 counters get you considerably closer to victory. throne of geth can often help push through the last couple counters in some games where you are losing board position. With inkmoths and the equipments you are running it is even better. Btw it can sacrifice itself so at worse you can hit your opponent with one poison counter, but I think in your deck it can consistently push through 2-3 counters.
I hv done quite a bit of testing with ur tempo build. I think it is possible without snapcaster. In a strange way I found snapcaster was at times anti-synergetic with the deck. Unlike in control decks, sometimes there just isn't enough time for the graveyard to develop... that's just my two cents...
Back to the deck, I think stormblood berserker provides an excellent early threat. With stalker,delver and gutshot you get bloodthirst with no problem. I haven't tested spikeshot elder, but I think it doesn't do much when he's without the pike..
As far as late game goes this deck isn't overpowering, but many times I could finish off my opponent just in time with Guttersnipe. Given Snapcaster Mage a burn spell draw can easily deal 8 damage to your opponent in two turns without any interaction with him. I think if you cannot afford Snapcasters you can consider running more flashback spells. Talrand and Talrand's Innvocation are crazy good with the Pike too.
I like talrand's invocation as a card. I would consider it more if i run more pikes. It is possibly good against control decks. The problem is it is slow for this deck and not snapcaster friendly.
4 Guttersnipe
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Talrand, Sky Summoner
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Desperate Ravings
3 Thought Scour
3 Izzet Charm
3 Unsummon
1 Dissipate
2 Searing Spear
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Devil's Play
1 Runechanter's Pike
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
8 Island
8 Mountain
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Dissipate
1 Syncopate
2 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Negate
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Chandra, the Firebrand
2 Smelt
Guttersnipe is the center piece of this deck. I chose to run a variety of cheap spells trying to maximize the value of Snapcaster mage and Guttersnipe. This deck doesn't overpower opponents but aims to finish him off just in time. Versatility is key. Personally I have a great time playing this deck, in trying to find the best play when you have the choice to draw, burn or bounce etc.
The Deck
4 Guttersnipe
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Talrand, Sky Summoner
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Desperate Ravings
3 Thought Scour
3 Izzet Charm
3 Unsummon
1 Dissipate
2 Searing Spear
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Devil's Play
1 Runechanter's Pike
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
8 Island
8 Mountain
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Dissipate
1 Syncopate
2 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Negate
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Chandra, the Firebrand
2 Smelt
The Cards
Creatures - Delver of Secrets I know we don't have ponder anymore but it does has a decent chance to flip, most of the time it just eats removal anyways, which isn't a bad thing.
Guttersnipe In this build if it resolves and stay alive in mid game it usually means a whole lot of damage for your opponent. Snapcaster Mage is his best friend.
Talrand,Sky Summoner I am not sure about this card. In this deck you are not trying to overrun the board with a gazillion birds. But in testing the extra evasive body or two have won me games.
Spells, not going through all of them only key ones
Thought Scour is an absolutely must. The 1 cmc cantrip makes so many things better namely snapcaster. In a strange way it makes Izzet Charm better also.
Unsummon I think this card is underrated in this meta. Many prefer cyclonic rift over it. The 1 mana difference is a lot in this deck and we are not looking to use the overload effect. There aren't many non-creature things to bounce anyways.
Burn - Anyone can come up with their own package according to meta. I think the cards most people would argue about is Searing Spear and Devil's play. Searing Spear, the instant speed is largely relevant and it targets creatures and players, Brimstone Volley is more expensive and far less consistent. Devil's play is not terribly exciting but it does add some versatility and flashback is relevant when Guttersnipe or Talrand is in play.
Runechanter's Pike I started with 2 copies but it does require a certain board presence for this card to be really good. It doesn't do a whole lot on non-Delver targets. Treat it as an alternative win con.
Sideboard - Counters are a big part of this sideboard because we are not playing many on the mainboard. Flames of the Firebrand against aggro. Chandra and Jace can hopefully come in as a couple against some decks but to be honest I haven't done much testing with that yet. Thundermaw Hellkite has no synergy with the rest of the cards whatsoever, but it does beat people's faces.
Conclusion I have always thought UR is where Snapcaster can really shine, with the variety of low-cost efficient spells. The problem for this deck the past season is the mana base. Now that is fixed I hope this build can catch on. Any comment is welcomed.
*To the exlusion of bonfire of the damned - I just don't like drawing it in my opening hand or early. Mizzium Mortar is never a bad draw and it does serves as a sweeper. A bonfire in the opening hand is almost an automatic mulligan and if you draw it early in the game when Guttersnipe is not in play it just doesn't do a whole lot. Plus it is un-snap-able.
Red obviously adds a lot of great cards but I am not sure if it is worth the sacrifice on tempo and stability. 8 of the lands are going to come into play tapped 100% of the time, this will be a problem against faster decks.
Your deck is built to fight creature heavy strategies. It has 10+ removal spells I think it is a bit excessive.
What is your take on between UW control and this deck?
As I have said in the original post, I think this archetype is under explored, the list I posted is merely a raw list. I hope there will be more players playing Jund and come up to their own conclusion. That being said I will find the time to come up with a correct mana base shortly...
Mainboard Daybreak Ranger is definitely worth considering, maybe in the expense of borderland ranger?
The card draw is obviously very nice. I want to point out I think this deck is less equipped to handle aggro than the Grixis list. I ran into Delver and there just wasn't enough answers. What I am really missing is the early card draw, is there a reason why you leave out ponder? As much as I love desperate ravings, I don't think it is a good fit for your deck as is. I think this deck is less prone to a bad hand or dead card than the Grixis deck but that means a lot of times Ravings will be the dead card. The lack of Snapcaster mage doesn't help the case either...
Another big question mark is Restoration Angel, with the lack of creatures we just aren't using her ability. I would consider running a bonafide finisher instead.
Before I go into the deck I have to mention this card - Abundant Growth .... This card allows us to stretch into the colors will need consistently, especially the early double drops. The card draw is definitely awesome, if spreading seas was playable I don't see why this card is not good.
The Deck
Creatures
2 Borderland Ranger
3 Olivia Voldaren
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Acidic Slime
2 Grave Titan
2 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Wolfir Avenger
2 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Abundant Growth
2 Garruk Relentless/Garruk, the Veil-Cursed
3 Whipflare
1 Killing Wave
2 Go for the Throat
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Daybreak Ranger/Nightfall Predator
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Doom Blade
2 Beast Within
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Naturalize
1 Zealous Conscripts
This list is not by any means refined. In a sense it looks like a pile of junk thrown together, but with abundant growth the mana base is more stable than most 3-colored decks and this allows us to play the most powerful cards out of each color with relative consistency.
IMO one of the advantages of this archetype is it allow a lot of room for variation according to personal test and meta. Hope to get some input from you guys.
Some explanation on card choices:
Olivia Voldaren -- This card is just great against creatures. Drop it on turn 3, turn 4 and start shooting the aggro guys, or drop it on turn six and shoot something immediately. IMO it's a card that has ton of potential in this creature heavy meta.
Wolfir Avenger -- I had Geralf's Messenger in this spot originally, but had trouble getting him out on turn 3 and it doesn't provide the early defense we want. Avenger is arguably the best green 3-drop in standard, it stops most aggro guys outright and most importantly Geist of Saint-Traft.
Killing Wave -- This is probably not a very good card but I wanted to give it a try. It adds another dimension to the deck. Can easily be another removal spell or simply a black sun's Zenith.
Primeval Titan, Inferno Titan -- This deck can probably support them but I feel it will be simpler to play Gravys and Wurmcoil. Frankly I haven't done much testing.
When Fang of Numai deals damage to a player, you may put a -1/-1 counter on Fang of Numai. If you do, choose any number of players, each of those players discard a card.
First Strike
~ Enchantment - Aura
Forests you control are indestructible.
1G: Sacrifice a creature, you gain life equals to its toughness. Target non-creature permanent you control is indestructible until end of turn.
I would consider adding mutagenic growth and throne of geth. Mutagenic growth is amazing in any infect deck as once you hit opponent with poison counters he can never ever get them off. 2 counters get you considerably closer to victory. throne of geth can often help push through the last couple counters in some games where you are losing board position. With inkmoths and the equipments you are running it is even better. Btw it can sacrifice itself so at worse you can hit your opponent with one poison counter, but I think in your deck it can consistently push through 2-3 counters.
Back to the deck, I think stormblood berserker provides an excellent early threat. With stalker,delver and gutshot you get bloodthirst with no problem. I haven't tested spikeshot elder, but I think it doesn't do much when he's without the pike..