Confirm that, Voxx? What was your night action, Seppel? Anything to report, WoLG?
Other than talking to Iso, I don't do anything. I'm in the process of a re-read to look at all the claimed night actions and figure things out.
I'm leaning Seppel because he's been basically trying to push bad logic and has been inventing reasons to lynch me. But I'm hoping that Voxx can help figure that out while Seppel is in jail.
In the 14 mins in between Zinda posting and my reply I was: Typing up my reply, reading the QT, posting in the QT, making my post. Didn't see it until now. But I *JUST* told Iso that the town could stand mislynching us and still win, and that I no longer believed the ring to be a red herring. I was starting to type up my T/S list and vote myself to prove a point, I'm glad I didn't, as it would have been unfair to Iso.
But your claimed role makes perfect sense with how you reacted to the mass claim. Especially posts 995-7.
I was getting worried that there was a gollum out there that had already false claimed and I was going to be mislynched on modgaming.
Anyway, can we get on with lynching scum-stardust today?
At this point I'm strongly considering lynching you over Stardust just because your status is still up in the air while I already know Stardust is scum.
You're willing to let an obvious scum live because you think I might be neutral? That's pretty garbage logic. Why not lynch the scum first? If the game is still going after we lynch Wessel and Stardust, please by all means lynch me.
If I am a survivor, and you're conjecturing that I need the ring to survive: the ring can only be passed on by lynching Zionite, and he's the cop so we have NO reason to do that. So that means I'm not going to get the ring (Which I don't want anyway) That means by your own logic, I'd be fully willing to lose the game by never voting Zionite. If you truely believe that, then just let me lose the game and let's lynch the obvious scum.
Iso: "This is just ridiculous (read: god-awful). We have obvscum Wessel and Stardust in PLAIN SIGHT and our Cop is considering lynching us on the grounds that we MIGHT be a Neutral? What absolute garbage."
@WoLG: if your life is too overwhelming to play, replace out. I honestly hate that excuse because it puts us in a position where it's either 1) I'm a jerk for pushing you or 2) you're a jerk for using RL as an excuse for bad play. It's much better if we can all be accountable for our actions while playing the game or refrain from posting until we can. All I have to analyze is what you post, so at least give me that.
That's understandable. What I'm saying is that you're not using what I'm posting, or my play, to say I'm a neutral. You're saying I'm a neutral based on modgaming and listening to the words of someone who is confirmed scum. Outside of me and Iso wanting an extra vote, which I've already stated that I no longer care if we get or not, what have I done that leads you to believe I'm neutral? Nothing. I believe my play has been very pro-town and I've been looking for scum, and that's all you can really ask of a townie. I'm saying that this baseless fearmongering is a huge distraction, and my ability to respond to -that- is challenged by real life issues. Real life isn't going to stop me looking for scum, it just cuts out my patience for this BS.
Iso's reaction to all of this: "OMFG
Are we being trolled?!?"
Which is basically how I feel about this whole situation.
This is interesting. Because you indeed were 'super obvious town with a bullet' for most of the game. Your posts were just unbelievably(and for you, uncharacteristically) clean, methodical, and efficient. You honed in on Zionite with ease, etc. You were the person that we tried to NK N2, because we assumed Az would continue to be protected(obviously we had no way of knowing that Ged's role would just let him protect everybody at the same time). And then at some point you just like..became unhinged, and it was easy to paint your earlier posts in a scummy light because of your later posts. I'm still curious what happened to you.
One of the reasons I left mafia in the first place is that I got lynched a lot from poor wording. Before this game, I had only ever won two games on this site: Hollywood mafia and Code Geass mafia. Only one of those was I actually alive in the endgame. (I'm not sure about any other sites because I don't remember my log in info, or what other sites I played on.)
I even made a few posts in the mafia theory thread back in 09 or 07 about how I regularly get lynched and manage to avoid NK's because of my scummy sounding posts.
In my mind, and in verbal debates, I make perfect sense. I also tend to write very well in a collegiate and professional forum, but for some reason when it comes to mafia I can't properly articulate my logic and thought patterns.
One of the reasons I decided to come back was I have a job now that allows me time to post (major issue over the past few years) and I also have the time to write a post, wait a few mins, then read it out loud to make sure I'm saying exactly what I should be saying. For the past week or so, I've just been posting without re-reading and it's not worked out very well for me.
It got me lynched in this game, and caused issues in ongoing games.
It's kind of weird though. When I can tell someone is being too calculated or re-reading their posts too much, it reads as scum to me. Train-of-thought posts read as town. But for me, train of thought reads to me as scum, and my calculated posts read as town. (I like re-reading my games to see how I look, and I thought this was my best game by far.)
I don't really care at this point, because you will be proven wrong when I get mislynched. I have crap going on in real life that is messing with my ability to be clear headed, and responding to you and seppels fearmongering is worthless. I've said what I needed to say and I know I'm right.
From now on I'm going to do my best to ignore all the baseless speculation and see if I can solidify my reads.
That still doesn't absolve the fact that an extra vote on confirmed town is better than an extra vote on an unknown. And you're also not addressing the accusation that you are likely gollum and need the ring.
What?
1.) If you feel the extra vote is better off on Zinda or you, I don't have any issue with one of you getting it. The only thing that I've been saying this whole time is that there are two people represented by my role, so two different votes would be nice to have.
2.) How many times to I have to say that we're not gollum and don't need the ring? How am I "not addressing the accusation" WHEN I'VE STATED REPEATEDLY THAT I'M NOT GOLLUM!!!?!?!
We know that the flavor in this game is from characters within the setup. You make perfect sense as gollum and you explain the reason why I have an item at all.
Yeah, the way my role is set up, from a flavor standpoint, makes more sense as Gollum. He's one character with two personalities. Asian Invasion has said that he should have made it a hydra account where we both could post, but he didn't (hindsight is 20/20.)
Fili and Kili are two brothers, but they are of one mind because of their closeness so they don't need to both speak to have their opinion heard. It still makes flavorfull sense for this role to work. It made sense to me, Asian, and Iso anyway. No one has name copped me and no one is claiming that they are fili or kili, so the only thing you're going on is flavor and mod gaming, which is a pretty bad reason to try and get me lynched, especially when there's scum to kill.
We're not neutral, and even if we were, WHICH WE ARE NOT, it's obvious that lynching us would be a significantly worse play than lynching scum.
I don't have a lot of time to post in the next few hours, but Iso wants me to post:
<Iso says:> "Wessel is obviously not paying attention.
And Seppel is obviously being dumb. I've already explained why it would be beneficial to us to gain an extra vote. WoLG and I are two different people. We have varying opinions. But we're stuck in the same role. So to express that properly, we could use an extra vote. How does having an extra vote equate to having the Ring, Seppel?"
Also, you guys are being absolutely ridiculous with the favor gaming and ring stuff. I guess I could have stopped mentioning the extra vote thing a while ago, but I don't see how that makes me scummy. Most of you had said that you felt I was confirmed town/the most town, so me having an extra vote was a safer bet than say, giving it to wessel or stardust.
I get no abilities whatsoever from getting an extra vote, outside being able to vote twice.
Also: Zionite said that when he gets lynched whoever hammers him gets the ring, which has nothing to do with an extra vote. I'm not going to be voting Zionite, so that's not an issue.
Go Town! Thank you guys for giving me my third win!
Just a few quick things to say, some of which I've already said in spectator chat:
I had the chance to win the game for the town, and messed it up because I was having some issues in Real Life, and other games were pissing me off. So between May 10th and 11th, I was doing train of thought posts instead of what I normally do: Re-read my other posts and make sure I'm not contradicting myself. Unfortunately train of thought posts don't work out well when you're pissed off and stressed out. I was upset about being a cop that was basically a vanilla townie, and for some reason I wasn't seeing the full picture when it came to Cyan. I could have made this a flawless townie victory by voting for Cyan in post 978. A_E would have hammered him in his next post. I got caught up in the fact that the only reason I had a town read on Iso was if he could use his shot and tried to win the game by PoE only using his ability. That day, A_E could have had his ability proven, Iso could have had his ability proven, but I kept forgetting that Iso's death wouldn't give me my ability. And of course, Cyan's cool tone throughout his posts made him look a lot better than a raving lunatic who was throwing suspicion on everyone alive in game at that point. I played my absolute best town game in history up until May 10th. Before that, I was completely spot on with Zionite catch early as heck on D1 (Something I'd never done before,) called Seppel's alignment, was originally right about it being okay for the Chroma Killer to live past that day, realized super late that Axel's death needed to happen because he was so defeatist after being called out by Az and not having a good claim. If I would have kept my head on straight, we would have had a flawless game, even without a cop investigation.
That being said: To me, that is one of the worst cop roles to put in this game. The lynch of 5/12 players keeps it from being able to investigate, PLUS there was a Governor who could stop the lynch of a townie, making it 6/12 players that couldn't be lynched D1 to give me a N1 investigation. Granted, most mislynches happen D1 and Xyre couldn't take into account Az's great play, but still having only a 50/50 shot of getting an investigation with the chances going down every day sucks when there are 4/12 scum.
To the living players:
@Cyan: Absolutely amazing play. It was awesome reading your scum chat and watching how crafty you were in creating your false claim and using your abilities. Spot on job getting Az to change his mind about me. He went from "WoLG is town, the scum is either ZDS or Cyan and I just confirmed it's not ZDS, so gg town!" to lynching the claimed cop that is a "often mislynched player for poor wording" based on...poor wording. I was never quite sure about your alignment because with how weak my role is, a 1 shot cop add in seemed fair. But once you claimed that one of your shots were watcher, it was a done deal. I'm not sure why people didn't pick up on the "Town Cop and Town Name Cop" being dead and you claiming two investigative abilities.
@ZDS: Your play change from the first day to the last was a complete phoenix. You went from defeatism about being run up on crappy logic to playing a very pro-town game. I was on the fence about you mostly because of the defeatism and some of your wording, and was never cemented in a read on you. I think this is because I haven't played with you in a long time and forgot about your playstyle.
@Iso: This game gave me a lot of insight about how you look at the game. I would have played your role completely differently, ensuring my death at some point, but in the end it was unnecessary. Good job on making the right choice in the end game.
@A_E: I can definitely see why other players billed you as an often mislynched player. You're as bad at wording things as I am, and you hardcore lurked your way through the game. If I wasn't letting myself be influenced by other players saying it was normal play for you, you were second on my scumlist behind Zionite. Even reading the thread after I died and knew your alignment, you were coming off way scummier than Cyan.
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@Az: Freaking great game. Not much more that I can say besides that. You called out pretty much everyones alignments on Day 1, and if I wasn't having such a rough time in RL, I'm sure you wouldn't have lynched me. Definitely amazing.
Me and Iso would both love that extra vote. But, I understand if you'd rather give it to Zinda or Zion. Or if you can give it to yourself, that'd work out even better.
I support a mass claim, but I'm already claimed, so that doesn't matter.
"Thief Baggins! Curse it and crush it! We hates it forever!"
And it just makes sense. We're not lynching you so it's okay. But you're definitely gollum.
That's the intro post to the game, are you saying that you just read it?
Remember what happened the last time someone flavor gamed that post? It ended with the lynch of Gandalf, our tracker.
It's not okay, because I'm not Gollum. It doesn't matter if I'm not getting lynched today, it's setting me up for a lynch in the end game based on flavor gaming and incorrect logic.
@WOLG: I want to know now. What is Iso's precise role in this game? (And with role, I don't mean his game role, I mean how exactly is he involved in this game.)
I'm not sold on WoLG being town. We know that false claims are probably, if not definitely, present. The general lack of info on WoLG except the name claim gives me pause, and the fact that we only got the name after we guessed "Gollum/Smeagol" makes me think he's a neutral with a false claim. This lines up with the scum motivation to be "scum-hunting" the neutral on Day 2 and explains the role better than the twins claim. There's also Caex's last words to consider, that despite being outed he still maintained that WoLG wasn't town.
Flavor gaming and fearmongering about neutrals doesn't do anyone any good. Also, someone guessed our role names in thread before anyone said anything about Gollum/Smeagol.
Other than talking to Iso, I don't do anything. I'm in the process of a re-read to look at all the claimed night actions and figure things out.
I'm leaning Seppel because he's been basically trying to push bad logic and has been inventing reasons to lynch me. But I'm hoping that Voxx can help figure that out while Seppel is in jail.
In the 14 mins in between Zinda posting and my reply I was: Typing up my reply, reading the QT, posting in the QT, making my post. Didn't see it until now. But I *JUST* told Iso that the town could stand mislynching us and still win, and that I no longer believed the ring to be a red herring. I was starting to type up my T/S list and vote myself to prove a point, I'm glad I didn't, as it would have been unfair to Iso.
But your claimed role makes perfect sense with how you reacted to the mass claim. Especially posts 995-7.
I was getting worried that there was a gollum out there that had already false claimed and I was going to be mislynched on modgaming.
Anyway, can we get on with lynching scum-stardust today?
You're willing to let an obvious scum live because you think I might be neutral? That's pretty garbage logic. Why not lynch the scum first? If the game is still going after we lynch Wessel and Stardust, please by all means lynch me.
If I am a survivor, and you're conjecturing that I need the ring to survive: the ring can only be passed on by lynching Zionite, and he's the cop so we have NO reason to do that. So that means I'm not going to get the ring (Which I don't want anyway) That means by your own logic, I'd be fully willing to lose the game by never voting Zionite. If you truely believe that, then just let me lose the game and let's lynch the obvious scum.
Iso: "This is just ridiculous (read: god-awful). We have obvscum Wessel and Stardust in PLAIN SIGHT and our Cop is considering lynching us on the grounds that we MIGHT be a Neutral? What absolute garbage."
That's understandable. What I'm saying is that you're not using what I'm posting, or my play, to say I'm a neutral. You're saying I'm a neutral based on modgaming and listening to the words of someone who is confirmed scum. Outside of me and Iso wanting an extra vote, which I've already stated that I no longer care if we get or not, what have I done that leads you to believe I'm neutral? Nothing. I believe my play has been very pro-town and I've been looking for scum, and that's all you can really ask of a townie. I'm saying that this baseless fearmongering is a huge distraction, and my ability to respond to -that- is challenged by real life issues. Real life isn't going to stop me looking for scum, it just cuts out my patience for this BS.
Iso's reaction to all of this: "OMFG
Are we being trolled?!?"
Which is basically how I feel about this whole situation.
One of the reasons I left mafia in the first place is that I got lynched a lot from poor wording. Before this game, I had only ever won two games on this site: Hollywood mafia and Code Geass mafia. Only one of those was I actually alive in the endgame. (I'm not sure about any other sites because I don't remember my log in info, or what other sites I played on.)
I even made a few posts in the mafia theory thread back in 09 or 07 about how I regularly get lynched and manage to avoid NK's because of my scummy sounding posts.
In my mind, and in verbal debates, I make perfect sense. I also tend to write very well in a collegiate and professional forum, but for some reason when it comes to mafia I can't properly articulate my logic and thought patterns.
One of the reasons I decided to come back was I have a job now that allows me time to post (major issue over the past few years) and I also have the time to write a post, wait a few mins, then read it out loud to make sure I'm saying exactly what I should be saying. For the past week or so, I've just been posting without re-reading and it's not worked out very well for me.
It got me lynched in this game, and caused issues in ongoing games.
It's kind of weird though. When I can tell someone is being too calculated or re-reading their posts too much, it reads as scum to me. Train-of-thought posts read as town. But for me, train of thought reads to me as scum, and my calculated posts read as town. (I like re-reading my games to see how I look, and I thought this was my best game by far.)
I don't really care at this point, because you will be proven wrong when I get mislynched. I have crap going on in real life that is messing with my ability to be clear headed, and responding to you and seppels fearmongering is worthless. I've said what I needed to say and I know I'm right.
From now on I'm going to do my best to ignore all the baseless speculation and see if I can solidify my reads.
What?
1.) If you feel the extra vote is better off on Zinda or you, I don't have any issue with one of you getting it. The only thing that I've been saying this whole time is that there are two people represented by my role, so two different votes would be nice to have.
2.) How many times to I have to say that we're not gollum and don't need the ring? How am I "not addressing the accusation" WHEN I'VE STATED REPEATEDLY THAT I'M NOT GOLLUM!!!?!?!
Yeah, the way my role is set up, from a flavor standpoint, makes more sense as Gollum. He's one character with two personalities. Asian Invasion has said that he should have made it a hydra account where we both could post, but he didn't (hindsight is 20/20.)
Fili and Kili are two brothers, but they are of one mind because of their closeness so they don't need to both speak to have their opinion heard. It still makes flavorfull sense for this role to work. It made sense to me, Asian, and Iso anyway. No one has name copped me and no one is claiming that they are fili or kili, so the only thing you're going on is flavor and mod gaming, which is a pretty bad reason to try and get me lynched, especially when there's scum to kill.
We're not neutral, and even if we were, WHICH WE ARE NOT, it's obvious that lynching us would be a significantly worse play than lynching scum.
Unvote, Vote: Stardust
<Iso says:> "Wessel is obviously not paying attention.
And Seppel is obviously being dumb. I've already explained why it would be beneficial to us to gain an extra vote. WoLG and I are two different people. We have varying opinions. But we're stuck in the same role. So to express that properly, we could use an extra vote. How does having an extra vote equate to having the Ring, Seppel?"
Also, you guys are being absolutely ridiculous with the favor gaming and ring stuff. I guess I could have stopped mentioning the extra vote thing a while ago, but I don't see how that makes me scummy. Most of you had said that you felt I was confirmed town/the most town, so me having an extra vote was a safer bet than say, giving it to wessel or stardust.
I get no abilities whatsoever from getting an extra vote, outside being able to vote twice.
Also: Zionite said that when he gets lynched whoever hammers him gets the ring, which has nothing to do with an extra vote. I'm not going to be voting Zionite, so that's not an issue.
Just a few quick things to say, some of which I've already said in spectator chat:
I had the chance to win the game for the town, and messed it up because I was having some issues in Real Life, and other games were pissing me off. So between May 10th and 11th, I was doing train of thought posts instead of what I normally do: Re-read my other posts and make sure I'm not contradicting myself. Unfortunately train of thought posts don't work out well when you're pissed off and stressed out. I was upset about being a cop that was basically a vanilla townie, and for some reason I wasn't seeing the full picture when it came to Cyan. I could have made this a flawless townie victory by voting for Cyan in post 978. A_E would have hammered him in his next post. I got caught up in the fact that the only reason I had a town read on Iso was if he could use his shot and tried to win the game by PoE only using his ability. That day, A_E could have had his ability proven, Iso could have had his ability proven, but I kept forgetting that Iso's death wouldn't give me my ability. And of course, Cyan's cool tone throughout his posts made him look a lot better than a raving lunatic who was throwing suspicion on everyone alive in game at that point. I played my absolute best town game in history up until May 10th. Before that, I was completely spot on with Zionite catch early as heck on D1 (Something I'd never done before,) called Seppel's alignment, was originally right about it being okay for the Chroma Killer to live past that day, realized super late that Axel's death needed to happen because he was so defeatist after being called out by Az and not having a good claim. If I would have kept my head on straight, we would have had a flawless game, even without a cop investigation.
That being said: To me, that is one of the worst cop roles to put in this game. The lynch of 5/12 players keeps it from being able to investigate, PLUS there was a Governor who could stop the lynch of a townie, making it 6/12 players that couldn't be lynched D1 to give me a N1 investigation. Granted, most mislynches happen D1 and Xyre couldn't take into account Az's great play, but still having only a 50/50 shot of getting an investigation with the chances going down every day sucks when there are 4/12 scum.
To the living players:
@Cyan: Absolutely amazing play. It was awesome reading your scum chat and watching how crafty you were in creating your false claim and using your abilities. Spot on job getting Az to change his mind about me. He went from "WoLG is town, the scum is either ZDS or Cyan and I just confirmed it's not ZDS, so gg town!" to lynching the claimed cop that is a "often mislynched player for poor wording" based on...poor wording. I was never quite sure about your alignment because with how weak my role is, a 1 shot cop add in seemed fair. But once you claimed that one of your shots were watcher, it was a done deal. I'm not sure why people didn't pick up on the "Town Cop and Town Name Cop" being dead and you claiming two investigative abilities.
@ZDS: Your play change from the first day to the last was a complete phoenix. You went from defeatism about being run up on crappy logic to playing a very pro-town game. I was on the fence about you mostly because of the defeatism and some of your wording, and was never cemented in a read on you. I think this is because I haven't played with you in a long time and forgot about your playstyle.
@Iso: This game gave me a lot of insight about how you look at the game. I would have played your role completely differently, ensuring my death at some point, but in the end it was unnecessary. Good job on making the right choice in the end game.
@A_E: I can definitely see why other players billed you as an often mislynched player. You're as bad at wording things as I am, and you hardcore lurked your way through the game. If I wasn't letting myself be influenced by other players saying it was normal play for you, you were second on my scumlist behind Zionite. Even reading the thread after I died and knew your alignment, you were coming off way scummier than Cyan.
___________________________________
@Az: Freaking great game. Not much more that I can say besides that. You called out pretty much everyones alignments on Day 1, and if I wasn't having such a rough time in RL, I'm sure you wouldn't have lynched me. Definitely amazing.
I support a mass claim, but I'm already claimed, so that doesn't matter.
That's the intro post to the game, are you saying that you just read it?
Remember what happened the last time someone flavor gamed that post? It ended with the lynch of Gandalf, our tracker.
It's not okay, because I'm not Gollum. It doesn't matter if I'm not getting lynched today, it's setting me up for a lynch in the end game based on flavor gaming and incorrect logic.
@Zionite: What changed between
Flavor gaming and fearmongering about neutrals doesn't do anyone any good. Also, someone guessed our role names in thread before anyone said anything about Gollum/Smeagol.