From Iso: "How do you explain the scum having 2 Untargetable variants according to your theory. If Seppel is scum, he's a Redirector, not a JoAT with an Untargetable shot and a Doc shot. There is basically no way Vox is not the last scum at this point."
Me and Iso are in a heated debate about me placing my vote, because he is as unsure about Voxxicus as I am.
Luckily, Zinda is absolutely town (If he's a godfather jailer, I'll eat my hat) so he's not going to come in a hammer for a scum win.
If Zinda and Seppel both come in stating that Seppel is in fact currently jailed by Zinda, then I'll unvote and rethink some more.
As of right now, Iso is convinced that Voxx had to have made the kill if Seppel is in jail chat with Zinda.
The seppel and dyh interaction and how seppel went after my lynch, as well as his insistence on the mass claim looks the worst.
Regardless of which one of you we lynch the town still wins because zinda can jail the other.
Vote: Seppel
Zinda: can you ask the order of night actions? I know this information is often public knowledge depending on the mod.
Yeah. It's a good plan on zindas part regardless of your alignment. I liked how Zinda called it a master stroke.
Iso wanted me to point out: If we operate on the assumption that Seppel having his kill was a direct result of his one shot ability then even if we lynch you zinda can still jail seppel tonight there won't be a kill then we lynch seppel for the win.
Seppel already said he was lying about the extra vote, I believe.
-1-shot untargetable (Passive)
And I bet he has this. I bet it prevented the jail from taking effect, and let him make the night kill.
Remember, we know now that we have a confirmed town Jailer who targeted Caex - Seppel insisted we did not, because it would have contradicted his story of him being the reason Caex survived the Vig shot.
From your perspective, the play should be to lynch Seppel, and convince Zindabad to jail me.
This nets the win 100% of the time if YOU are town.
From my perspective, it's obviously to lynch Seppel and jail you, but at this point I think you're legit, and Seppel is 100% scum.
Never saw that he lied about the vote, just re-read and you're right.
What is up with the lies this game people?
Hey look, we came up with the same logic. I'm still going to wait for Zinda and Seppel to come in before I vote because I'm paranoid and Iso is still re-reading.
That's vaguely OOG-ish, but yeah, you're almost certainly masons.
Which means it's Seppel.
Look at how much targeted town power we have, and how many of those roles can pin down the person commiting the mafia kill - Tracker, Watcher, Jailer.
Seppel is probably what he claims to be - just mafia. I bet he redirected Drey's 1-shot into Stardust on N1, given Drey's 'did you do something to me' claim, (and then Drey being shot that night). He probably used an untargetable type shot last night, so that he wouldn't be blocked, and still commit the mafia kill. I don't really understand why he'd still have the jailer chat in that case, but that's something to take up with AI in the post-game.
You're right, he could be scum with his (Mostly) truthfully claimed role:
He claimed the redirect to self, and also 1 shot doc. He could have Doc protected himself and then redirected Drey's kill to his protected self. He lives, the 1 shot vig looses it's 1 shot. He then has his 1 shot untargetable left, which would make it so that the Jail couldn't target him. There's a chance he DOESN'T HAVE THE JAILER CHAT. He said that you jailed him, not Zinda. And you're saying Zinda is the real jailer. WE NEED ZINDA IN HERE TO CONFIRM IF SEPPEL IS JAILED.
(He could also have given that extra vote to himself and can hammer himself for the win if either you or zinda vote me or you.)
DYH being shot last night when he was locked in on Seppel being scum, and could single handedly lynch him if he wished is another point against Seppel.
Look at Seppel's behavior at the end of yesterday, when we were lynching Stardust, and his back was to the wall - he tried to deflect to DYH and was shot down by Zinda.
Like. Nothing he's done this game has been remotely town, and the only point in his favor is getting jailed. Which is a big point.
But I maintain he has a way around that, because well. A kill happened. And it wasn't me.
Seppel's definitely been the scummiest. He pushed for a massclaim, mod gamed, and tried to get me lynched after calling me confirmed town.
The point in his favor could have been blocked by his untargetability.
With a 100% confirmed town Jailer, it still gives us some leeway. Let's lynch Seppel - if he flips town, Zindabad can choose between myself or WoLG to jail.
Yes it does. If seppel flips town, Zinda blocks you, we lynch you, game over town win. But lets wait and hear from Zinda first.
Hypothesis 1) Wessel and Stardust (with a potential Voxx (the potentiality rises significantly if he's the only vanilla (coughCyberspaceZindabadcough)) and less likely potential DYH) are mafia and we just need to go ahead and lynch them.
...
Hypothesis X) WoLG is Gollum as previously expected. Caex was neutral hunting because his team is underpowered(?), his role PM doesn't even say he can perform the mafia kill. No need to worry about this until there are no more kills or the game suddenly ends.
You already suspected Voxx here, and the point about Caex neutral hunting because his team is underpowered jives with the revealed scum roles and the revealed neutral.
I'm Radagast the Brown, *****es, here to save the company. I'm a JoAT with the following abilities:
* 1-shot untargetable (Passive)
* 1-shot redirect target player to myself
* 1-shot doc
* 1-shot give target player an extra vote the next day
N1: Redirected DRey to myself. (Reasoning: With Xyre/Caex/Cyouni all likely town after D1, I convinced myself that DRey was a toughguy and that I needed to stop his shot somehow. When he came in D2 asking me what happened to his shot, I knew that he knew perfectly well what happened to it, so I ignored the fishing attempt.)
N2: Docced Zionite (Reasoning: Either he's town and likely dead, or he's scum and it didn't matter.)
So, yeah. We don't have a jailer.
So supposedly his first three abilities are gone, which means his extra vote should be on someone, if he can give someone an extra vote, he's town in my book and we lynch Voxx for the win.
Re-reading Zinda's posts in regards to the jailing, he's 100% the cop confirmed town jailer. Godfather jailer would be WAY too over powered in my opinion, even in this game full of power roles.
1.) You contradict yourself in the same post here:
And no, of course you wouldn't actually /be/ masons if you were scum. You'd have to be faking it to be scum, which has never seemed likely.
...
1. You are scum, and either are faking being part Iso, or it's baked into your scum role...somehow.
From Iso:
"Seppel, proof I'm Masons with WoLG, if you have any doubt: THE PARACHUTE ROOM. zindabad, proof I'm Masons with WoLG if you have any doubt: You didn't expect Survival Horror and Ataghan to come so close in the last FTQ; and don't worry about that Specialty, I got Zionite to take a look at it."
Zinda: Do you have any role related reasons to believe Voxx is town? The only thing that was said is that you believe he is town based on the chat you two had. He's claiming now to be a completely vanilla role in a game where the town is full of power roles and the only other vanilla was scum. It's a lot easier to look town to someone in a 1 on 1 chat than it is in a thread where other people can pick apart what you're saying.
You've already said that you thought I was town based on the masonry until the gollum thing came up. That's all been resolved, gollum is out of the game. I think Iso has provided substantial proof that he IS my mason and I'm not faking this. Seppel can confirm because now I've offered two different distinct pieces of information that only Iso could know: (The katana duel, and the parachute room.)
If I have to go between the possibility of a JOAT (I still need to finish going through all the claimed night actions because something smells fishy now that zinda is the jailer) and a vanilla, I'm going to want to lynch the vanilla. But Voxx's behavior has been less scummy than Seppel, and seppel's reaction to things makes me believe that he's lying about his role. I wrote him off as town because Iso's read on his first few posts.
The good news is that we have time to sort through all this. Seppel isn't going to vote himself to end the game even if Zinda comes to that decision, and Voxx isn't going to hammer himself if seppel and zinda vote him. I'm not hammering anyone until me and Iso finish our analysis.
Iso also wants re-stated full claims from everyone:
WoLG: Fili and Kili, townie mason brothers with Iso. I chose Iso from the replacement list to participate in the game.
Seppel was jailed last night, Zinda is cop cleared townie jailer, I'm behaviorally cleared townie proven mason. The only unaccounted for variable is Vanilla Voxx. He's the only person who could have committed the kill.
Seppel say that he was jailed by you specifically.
You're changing your story too much and have lied twice at least now. I no longer believe anything you say.
I'm waiting for zinda to get back in before I say anything else.
Iso is going back looking at interactions and I'm figuring out night actions.
Voxx and Zinda: Both of you ask Asian via PM if you're allowed to quote the other one from the QT. I'm not allowed to quote Asian from the QT, but I am allowed to directly quote Iso. I don't see why he wouldn't also let you guys quote each other. Jailer makes you temporary alignment unconfirmed masons, and, at least from what I remember, usually in games you can quote your mason.
@Voxx: You never answered Iso: "Voxx: Can you kill the player that you have jailed at the end of the day?"
You keep using terms like "basic logic" and "Occam's Razor" to say that I'm scum and that's incorrect:
The simplest solutions here are that you're a scum jailer or Zinda is godfather (Which I'm not convinced is the case.)
The town has massive power this game: Cop, tracker, watcher, vig, governor, and an extra chosen analyst (from my role having two players.)
The scum had a juggernaut and a vanilla goon, so they seem to be severely lacking in power, even with a neutral single player SK out there. So the last scum role would have to be powerful. Assuming that I'm scum: Would a mason with no abilities be enough power for the scum to win against that much town investigation? The answer to that is no, that'd be terribly unbalanced. The last scum is going to be someone claiming a power role, and I believe that a scum jailer that can talk to his targets is good balancing power.
@Voxx: Asian told me directly that I was allowed to quote iso from the QT.
Seppel is Iso's brother in real life and I presented information that only iso could know, and said in thread that he knew that it was iso talking and not me faking it.
Also:
I haven't been on this site in almost 4 years, and have never played with iso outside of an ongoing other game. How could I fake his posts? Anyone who has played with iso before is going to see all of his language tells in the posts where I'm quoting him.
You're flailing. When I get back to a computer, I'll have quotes to prove it.
Zinda is cleared by the cop.
Seppel is cleared by being jailed last night and the mafia kill going through.
WoLG is cleared because he is a town mason that isn't neutral gollum.
I'm fairly certain that the last mafia is allowed to use it's night abilities as well as preform the last kill. Waiting to hear back from asian on that to be sure, but that leaves PoE down to Voxx. Even Zionite was on to Voxx yesterday.
He jailed Caex to save him from DRey's vig shot.
He jailed Zinda because Zinda was cop cleared town and he wanted to possibly block a town power role.
He jailed Seppel because Seppel was a claimed power role.
Actually: If voxx is telling the truth, it's not Seppel, because seppel was jailed. LEt me ask asian a rules question, and we might have this in the bag.
Luckily, Zinda is absolutely town (If he's a godfather jailer, I'll eat my hat) so he's not going to come in a hammer for a scum win.
If Zinda and Seppel both come in stating that Seppel is in fact currently jailed by Zinda, then I'll unvote and rethink some more.
As of right now, Iso is convinced that Voxx had to have made the kill if Seppel is in jail chat with Zinda.
Jesus Xyre how many games have you modded? I've been in three of them!
Regardless of which one of you we lynch the town still wins because zinda can jail the other.
Vote: Seppel
Zinda: can you ask the order of night actions? I know this information is often public knowledge depending on the mod.
Iso wanted me to point out: If we operate on the assumption that Seppel having his kill was a direct result of his one shot ability then even if we lynch you zinda can still jail seppel tonight there won't be a kill then we lynch seppel for the win.
Never saw that he lied about the vote, just re-read and you're right.
What is up with the lies this game people?
Hey look, we came up with the same logic. I'm still going to wait for Zinda and Seppel to come in before I vote because I'm paranoid and Iso is still re-reading.
You're right, he could be scum with his (Mostly) truthfully claimed role:
He claimed the redirect to self, and also 1 shot doc. He could have Doc protected himself and then redirected Drey's kill to his protected self. He lives, the 1 shot vig looses it's 1 shot. He then has his 1 shot untargetable left, which would make it so that the Jail couldn't target him. There's a chance he DOESN'T HAVE THE JAILER CHAT. He said that you jailed him, not Zinda. And you're saying Zinda is the real jailer. WE NEED ZINDA IN HERE TO CONFIRM IF SEPPEL IS JAILED.
(He could also have given that extra vote to himself and can hammer himself for the win if either you or zinda vote me or you.)
Seppel's definitely been the scummiest. He pushed for a massclaim, mod gamed, and tried to get me lynched after calling me confirmed town.
The point in his favor could have been blocked by his untargetability.
Yes it does. If seppel flips town, Zinda blocks you, we lynch you, game over town win. But lets wait and hear from Zinda first.
You already suspected Voxx here, and the point about Caex neutral hunting because his team is underpowered jives with the revealed scum roles and the revealed neutral.
So supposedly his first three abilities are gone, which means his extra vote should be on someone, if he can give someone an extra vote, he's town in my book and we lynch Voxx for the win.
@Seppel: Who has the extra vote?
1.) You contradict yourself in the same post here:
From Iso:
"Seppel, proof I'm Masons with WoLG, if you have any doubt: THE PARACHUTE ROOM.
zindabad, proof I'm Masons with WoLG if you have any doubt: You didn't expect Survival Horror and Ataghan to come so close in the last FTQ; and don't worry about that Specialty, I got Zionite to take a look at it."
Zinda: Do you have any role related reasons to believe Voxx is town? The only thing that was said is that you believe he is town based on the chat you two had. He's claiming now to be a completely vanilla role in a game where the town is full of power roles and the only other vanilla was scum. It's a lot easier to look town to someone in a 1 on 1 chat than it is in a thread where other people can pick apart what you're saying.
You've already said that you thought I was town based on the masonry until the gollum thing came up. That's all been resolved, gollum is out of the game. I think Iso has provided substantial proof that he IS my mason and I'm not faking this. Seppel can confirm because now I've offered two different distinct pieces of information that only Iso could know: (The katana duel, and the parachute room.)
If I have to go between the possibility of a JOAT (I still need to finish going through all the claimed night actions because something smells fishy now that zinda is the jailer) and a vanilla, I'm going to want to lynch the vanilla. But Voxx's behavior has been less scummy than Seppel, and seppel's reaction to things makes me believe that he's lying about his role. I wrote him off as town because Iso's read on his first few posts.
The good news is that we have time to sort through all this. Seppel isn't going to vote himself to end the game even if Zinda comes to that decision, and Voxx isn't going to hammer himself if seppel and zinda vote him. I'm not hammering anyone until me and Iso finish our analysis.
Iso also wants re-stated full claims from everyone:
WoLG: Fili and Kili, townie mason brothers with Iso. I chose Iso from the replacement list to participate in the game.
Seppel was jailed last night, Zinda is cop cleared townie jailer, I'm behaviorally cleared townie proven mason. The only unaccounted for variable is Vanilla Voxx. He's the only person who could have committed the kill.
You're changing your story too much and have lied twice at least now. I no longer believe anything you say.
I'm waiting for zinda to get back in before I say anything else.
Voxx and Zinda: Both of you ask Asian via PM if you're allowed to quote the other one from the QT. I'm not allowed to quote Asian from the QT, but I am allowed to directly quote Iso. I don't see why he wouldn't also let you guys quote each other. Jailer makes you temporary alignment unconfirmed masons, and, at least from what I remember, usually in games you can quote your mason.
@Voxx: You never answered Iso: "Voxx: Can you kill the player that you have jailed at the end of the day?"
You keep using terms like "basic logic" and "Occam's Razor" to say that I'm scum and that's incorrect:
The simplest solutions here are that you're a scum jailer or Zinda is godfather (Which I'm not convinced is the case.)
The town has massive power this game: Cop, tracker, watcher, vig, governor, and an extra chosen analyst (from my role having two players.)
The scum had a juggernaut and a vanilla goon, so they seem to be severely lacking in power, even with a neutral single player SK out there. So the last scum role would have to be powerful. Assuming that I'm scum: Would a mason with no abilities be enough power for the scum to win against that much town investigation? The answer to that is no, that'd be terribly unbalanced. The last scum is going to be someone claiming a power role, and I believe that a scum jailer that can talk to his targets is good balancing power.
Seppel is Iso's brother in real life and I presented information that only iso could know, and said in thread that he knew that it was iso talking and not me faking it.
Also:
I haven't been on this site in almost 4 years, and have never played with iso outside of an ongoing other game. How could I fake his posts? Anyone who has played with iso before is going to see all of his language tells in the posts where I'm quoting him.
You're flailing. When I get back to a computer, I'll have quotes to prove it.
Seppel is cleared by being jailed last night and the mafia kill going through.
WoLG is cleared because he is a town mason that isn't neutral gollum.
I'm fairly certain that the last mafia is allowed to use it's night abilities as well as preform the last kill. Waiting to hear back from asian on that to be sure, but that leaves PoE down to Voxx. Even Zionite was on to Voxx yesterday.
He jailed Caex to save him from DRey's vig shot.
He jailed Zinda because Zinda was cop cleared town and he wanted to possibly block a town power role.
He jailed Seppel because Seppel was a claimed power role.