Primordial Hydra never saw play, neither will this.
While I lean closer to this school of thought than to the other extreme, I will mention that if there exists a deck that can consistently get this with haste on turn 5, it is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Primordial Hydra and more on par with Thundermaw.
Trying to do so while still playing purely good cards in a deck, however, may be more of a challenge. I still would not be surprised at all if this ends up in some Jund aggro-ish deck post-rotation and becomes a major player.
No it isn't. In the decks it could be played in (yet to be determined if there will be one) its a Watchwolf at minimum, and possibly larger.
Is it bad because it also dies to removal perhaps?
While I don't want to stiffle anyone's creativity, I would like to point out that this is NOT Watchwolf, as Watchwolf is always a 3/3 for two and was at it's best played on turn 2.
I've yet to think of a way to make this guy a 3/3 on turn two without investing in a mana dork (when you might as well as play Smiter instead) and another card purely designed to gain life.
I would also like to point out that Call of the Conclave has not exactly been an all-star so far.
The only issue I have with this list here is that for your creature base - excluding Thragtusk - Most of it will be rotating out come October and even Thrag isn't a guaranteed reprint
Save Liliana of the Veil (And any of the M13 that don't get a reprint - most of which I anticipate being reprinted save MAYBE Mutilate) this list is ready for rotation as it is. Admittedly, that is still six months out.
Looking over it, this is actually almost nothing like the original list. It shares all of 11 cards in common...
Hah sorry, I didn't know you were planning for bringing this through rotation.
It's really not much like your list, I'm just saying this is a list I've been playing and it's been doing well.
This guy is good, but I'm of the opinion he still gets out-classed in all the current archetypes. I'd argue that in any kind of deck currently in the meta, his 4/4 creature side will offer more utility than the pump spell.
Aggro: Hellrider is the go to four drop in these decks. Is there place for another 4 drop (though one with extra utility) in dedicated aggro? Here the Rampager's pump side is alot better, so if he makes a mark anywhere, it'll be in these kinds of decks.
IF, however, a battlecruiser deck arrives in standard (Naya with Fencing Ace?), he could very well see play there with his +4/+4 pump being the primary mode.
Elderscale is really really bad against Zombies, as it does not prevent loss of life and once you go below 7 (from Messenger / Blood Artist) it does not offer any protection at all.
I'm a little confused. The deck as it is post-rotation can not already exist, as all the cards have not been spoiled yet.
Now we can speculate what it may look like, but the fact that we are missing so many cards and lack definitive decks to test against post-rotation, it is not hard to see why people are skeptical.
It can't be "tested" when you don't know what to test against, right?
This is the list I'm currently at
It has a weak infect matchup, hence the 3 Meliras in the board. I liked Gideon Jura in the list, but Thragtusk does a similar job better and is tutorable with GSZ. Testing has been good so far against everything else though. May try to hit up one of the last SCGs with this deck before rotation.
Gideon Jura pretty much wrecks Infect. Also much better against things like Zombies than Melira ever will be. Beast Within is also stupid good against Infect.
what was your delver sb plan if you dont mind me asking. any changes you'd make to the deck/sb? I was playing something similar a few months ago and I loved it but it just wasnt getting there for me. Thragtusk seems like a huge push.
For the U/W Delver match-up, I usually do something like the following:
-3 Wurmcoil
-1 Entreat the Angels
-1 Solemn Simulacrum
+1 Cavern of Souls
+1 Gideon Jura
+2 Beast Within
+1 Thragtusk
As you can see, not many changes. You go over the top of Delver so well that really you just want to get to your 5 drops.
The reason I took out a Solemn for land is because you have slightly less emphasis on 6 drops after board (and Solemn is pretty bad vs Snag), but you really need to hit your 5.
Wurmcoils go out against Delver because of Image and Snag.
DO NOT take out Days, even though they can be a little slow vs. Delver first game and are actively bad against versions with Pike / Moorland Haunt. Their #1 plan is to go Hero of Bladehold (which is also why I brought in more interaction with Beast Within), and #2 is to go big with Sun Titan and Sphinxes.
My number one change would be to find a slot for a 2nd Wolf Run. Many pod decks can go to Slime, and without a back-up Wolf Run, it can be hard to close out a game. Same with any deck with Tamiyo in it.
Thragtusk is just so good vs. Delver and Zombies that I might want a 4th copy in the side.
It's HEAVILY based off of Reid Duke's list in his article, but I made some tweaks to the mana base, the ramp package, and the sideboard.
Unfortunately in the first round of the top 8 I faced off against an extremely unfavorable match-up in Esper Control, and lost 2-1. Props to him for navigating the field to sneak in there.
I also played a very similar list (a bit more removal, no Glissa package in the side) to a 7-2 finish (11th place) the week before at the other Seattle PTQ. According to our testing the answer may be: both red AND blue.
I'd like to believe that the worst set since Coldsnap was actually New Phyrexia. Way to break the game in half and destroy the color pie.
While I lean closer to this school of thought than to the other extreme, I will mention that if there exists a deck that can consistently get this with haste on turn 5, it is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Primordial Hydra and more on par with Thundermaw.
Trying to do so while still playing purely good cards in a deck, however, may be more of a challenge. I still would not be surprised at all if this ends up in some Jund aggro-ish deck post-rotation and becomes a major player.
While I don't want to stiffle anyone's creativity, I would like to point out that this is NOT Watchwolf, as Watchwolf is always a 3/3 for two and was at it's best played on turn 2.
I've yet to think of a way to make this guy a 3/3 on turn two without investing in a mana dork (when you might as well as play Smiter instead) and another card purely designed to gain life.
I would also like to point out that Call of the Conclave has not exactly been an all-star so far.
Hah sorry, I didn't know you were planning for bringing this through rotation.
It's really not much like your list, I'm just saying this is a list I've been playing and it's been doing well.
4 Thragtusk
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Restoration Angel
1 Evil Twin
3 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Farseek
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Mutilate
2 Liliana of the Dark Realms
3 Victim of the Night
1 Sever the Bloodline
1 Rakdos' Return
1 Dimir Charm
1 Murder
1 Tribute to Hunder
1 Dreadbore
4 Watery Grave
3 Godless Shrine
1 Breeding Pool
2 Woodland Cemetary
2 Hinterland Harbor
1 Sunpetal Grove
3 Swamp
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
Midrange: Restoration Angel and/or Huntmaster of the Fells will still be the creatures of choice in these decks.
Aggro: Hellrider is the go to four drop in these decks. Is there place for another 4 drop (though one with extra utility) in dedicated aggro? Here the Rampager's pump side is alot better, so if he makes a mark anywhere, it'll be in these kinds of decks.
IF, however, a battlecruiser deck arrives in standard (Naya with Fencing Ace?), he could very well see play there with his +4/+4 pump being the primary mode.
Now we can speculate what it may look like, but the fact that we are missing so many cards and lack definitive decks to test against post-rotation, it is not hard to see why people are skeptical.
It can't be "tested" when you don't know what to test against, right?
Gideon Jura pretty much wrecks Infect. Also much better against things like Zombies than Melira ever will be. Beast Within is also stupid good against Infect.
For the U/W Delver match-up, I usually do something like the following:
-3 Wurmcoil
-1 Entreat the Angels
-1 Solemn Simulacrum
+1 Cavern of Souls
+1 Gideon Jura
+2 Beast Within
+1 Thragtusk
As you can see, not many changes. You go over the top of Delver so well that really you just want to get to your 5 drops.
The reason I took out a Solemn for land is because you have slightly less emphasis on 6 drops after board (and Solemn is pretty bad vs Snag), but you really need to hit your 5.
Wurmcoils go out against Delver because of Image and Snag.
DO NOT take out Days, even though they can be a little slow vs. Delver first game and are actively bad against versions with Pike / Moorland Haunt. Their #1 plan is to go Hero of Bladehold (which is also why I brought in more interaction with Beast Within), and #2 is to go big with Sun Titan and Sphinxes.
My number one change would be to find a slot for a 2nd Wolf Run. Many pod decks can go to Slime, and without a back-up Wolf Run, it can be hard to close out a game. Same with any deck with Tamiyo in it.
Thragtusk is just so good vs. Delver and Zombies that I might want a 4th copy in the side.
Can it get past that? Possibly with some creativity, but it's gonna need alot of help from RtR
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Thragtusk
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Primeval Titan
Spells:
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Devil's Play
2 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Rampant Growth
4 Farseek
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Gideon Jura
1 Entreat the Angels
3 Day of Judgment
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Glimmerpost
4 Forest
3 Plains
1 Rootbound Crag
2 Copperline Gorge
3 Sunpetal Grove
3 Razorverge Thicket
1 Mountain
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Terminus
2 Karn Liberated
1 Gideon Jura
1 Celestial Purge
1 Thragtusk
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Day of Judgment
2 Beast Within
It's HEAVILY based off of Reid Duke's list in his article, but I made some tweaks to the mana base, the ramp package, and the sideboard.
Unfortunately in the first round of the top 8 I faced off against an extremely unfavorable match-up in Esper Control, and lost 2-1. Props to him for navigating the field to sneak in there.
Edit: Here were the match-ups I faced:
Round 1: U/W Delver
Round 2: B/R Zombies
Round 3: B/R Zombies
Round 4: U/W Delver
Round 5: RUG Ramp
Round 6: Tempered Steel
My friend just recently got to the finals of the Aug-6th Seattle PTQ with this monstrosity of a list:
2 Go for the Throat
1 Doom Blade
1 Diregraf Captain
1 Phyrexian Obliterator
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Falkenrath Aristocrat
1 Sign in Blood
1 Butcher Ghoul
1 Bloodthrone Vampire
1 Dismember
2 Phantasmal Image
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Gravecrawler
4 Blood Artist
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Geralf's Messenger
3 Birthing Pod
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Woodland Cemetery
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
8 Swamp
1 Skinrender
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Glissa, the Traitor
2 Fume Spitter
2 Sword of War and Peace
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Phyrexian Obliterator
2 Duress
1 Tragic Slip
I also played a very similar list (a bit more removal, no Glissa package in the side) to a 7-2 finish (11th place) the week before at the other Seattle PTQ. According to our testing the answer may be: both red AND blue.
And the most egregious of them all.... Primeval Titan