Is the town allowed to concede? This is pretty pointless. All we can do is fire blindly into a crowd of lurkers, and hope that we randomly hit someone.
Yeah, the fact that nobody has piled on right away is somewhat encouraging. Unsan, we may need a deadline sometime soon, because otherwise we may not have enough active players to end the day.
Not really. But I'm glad you actually responded, unlike Maestro.
Also, I'm not sure if Batman beats him out on the posting. Maestro hasn't posted since before the mod-kills, not sure when Batman last posted, but they're both pretty bad.
For stylistic reasons though, I'm more inclined to go after Maestro first. Scummier reasoning, more bandwagoning votes, more staying off the radar.
I agree, but I differ on our target. Batman's reactions seem more honest to me than Maestro's, and he's been more of a presence in the thread. Maestro is probably the worst of the lurkers we have left, and since he's failed to reply to my argument yet: unvote, vote: Mr. Maestro.
[font=Courier New]Though most may not agree with this as a proper defense, it does cover the three items you have bolded. He, like the rest of us that are posting, wanted this game to go somewhere, so he took action. Not completely unreasonable.[/font]
Huh? He wanted us to vote no lynch and race the mafia with investigations, because he had an aggressive voting strategy?
He believed that lynching Batman was necessary for the survival of the game, because he likes a fast pace?
He thought that lynching imhungry was a win-win situation for the town, (when clearly the town can use every townie we can get, especially now) simply because he likes to vote for people?
The first one has nothing to do with aggressive votes at all. It's exactly the opposite. And the next two are simply bad justifications for aggressive voting, they aren't symptoms of it. If he was simply an aggressive player, he could have gone after them by using better reasons, however, he chose to use scummy ones because of the lack of conclusive evidence against those players.
Okay then, I suppose I can post a defense, although the only thing against me seems to be that I've not posted much "content," and that I've been pushing for lynches.
First of all, if everyone posted in the same way that I did, then this game wouldn't be dying for lack of participation. I may not have contributed anything amazing, but I've chipped in here and there, and kept up with the game. I'd suggest that this is an adequate level of participation, and I'd be dissappointed if I was lynched because of this. I was playing in 2 other mafia games recently, Historical and Mao mafias, both on news, but I've died in those games, so I've no longer got any excuse for not devoting full attention to the game, although I've got my exams in a couple of months. In addition, it is understandably hard for me to post with a high level of content when there are so few other people posting. Its unfortunate, but true.
As for my agressiveness in terms of lynching, I stil feel that it is the best way to actually get more content going in this game. I'd rather lose to the mafia in fast paced game than have the game called off. Others may feel that defeat is not acceptable under any circumstances, and that our lynches shouldn't be comprimised by the lurking, but I don't. As for imhungry, and sorry to admit that I just lost patience. The posters were already droppping off, imhungry was getting on my nerves, and I wanted to actually play a game. A bad play on my part that reflected increasing boredom.
Really, I'm not sure who to lynch today. Seeing as how we need just about everyone who is actually posting to agree in order to get a lynch, I can't see a lynch being quick.
I don't think you managed to hit all of these, specifically the bolded ones:
Quote from notstevie »
After going through all of this again, Unvote seems a great deal more suspicious than I believed at first. He had a false dilemma that lynching imhungry was win-win. Puts 8th vote on imhungry, and notes that he's perfectly happy with him as a lynch. Suggests that we have to lynch batman for the game to survive. Suggests using Morris to race the mafia, a pretty suicidal plan.
Yeah, actually, you only answered one of those in your first post, out of 4.
He has had plenty of time to answer and yesterday he posted in several other threads, so he has had the opportunity, and quite frankly, Blind Mafia makes me weary of inactivity.
1. notstevie92-Accused imhungry of trying to get him mod-killed.
2. Mr DiFranco-Warns players against becoming mod-killed by discussing real accounts.
3. BBtigger-Voted against Imhungry in order to end the day.
4. WellOfLostGnomes-
5. Heywood Jablome - Absent.
6. [*b]Unvote[*/b]- Came down on notstevie and imhungry for spamming the thread. Unvoted imhungry once he began posting grammar correctly, and states that was all he really wanted.
7. duberz-Very spammy.
8. Mr. Maestro-
9. amnesiac -Absent.
10. Batman - Voted for imhungry due to grammar, right after Wolfgang started the wagon. Backed off almost immediately when told it was a third vote. Continued to pressure imhungry, later. Was seriously in favor of lurker-hunting, early in the thread.
11. Hunter Duck- Also didn't appreciate the apparent spam. Picks out a post of Batmans that he says looks like Batman is hinting to have role information, and votes against him.
Pages 11-20
1. notstevie92-
2. Mr DiFranco-Notes that Wolfgang seems to be pushing a little hard for a lynch. FOSes imhungry, due to wolfgang's death.
3. BBtigger-Suggests finding out what types of music are in the game, presumably by mass claiming. Votes imhungry because he thinks he's trying to draw attention to himself to screw up the late game: no idea what he's talking about here.
4. WellOfLostGnomes-Votes against imhungry for declaring his willingness to claim, early in the day. Attacks imhungry's vote against batman. Suggests that imhungry realized too late that he shouldn't draw attention to himself, and that's why he disappeared. On 2nd day, votes imhungry citing the reasons from yesterday. Calls attention to duberz.
5. Heywood Jablome - Arrives on scene, asks mr. difranco to post more content. Tells imhungry he's not being framed. Notes that amnesiac's behavior isn't good for the town. Says he wouldn't mind seeing duberz die for spamming and lurking. Says that unvote's last two posts haven't had much in them.
6. [*b]Unvote[*/b]- Argues that lynching imhungry would be win-win, because he's not smart.
Well my initial reaction is that we have a crap load of spam but I think theres a bit of stuff to go on so I will begin with fos: Batman Vote: Imhungry
Imjungry for his extremly annoying posting, his refusal of believing a mod about the lack of identity of someone, and voting someone who voted him just before. And what sticks out most to me is how he seems to be posting with more crypticness as this goes on
Batman has been rather odd with his line of thought, and esp the change of reasoning for his vote on im hungry.
Our best bets for catching scum are like in lotr mafia, bad posting; by that token Im hungry would look like the best lynch however he still could be a newbie. But someone posted it already not sure who though, I think wolfgang, but a nebie likely wouldn't sign up for a specialty game for his first game. Sorry for the early bought of lurking, I'll be sure to check this thread more often
Voting for annoying posting is a pretty bad reason. Also, bad posting is NOT the way you catch mafia, you catch mafia by finding scummy posts and inconsistencies.
9. amnesiac -Amnesiac, arrives and claims n00b. Votes imhungry, out of anger. Agrees with emery about lynching townies.
10. Batman -
11. Hunter Duck-Defends imhungry as a newblet. A few posts later, he consents to voting for him on the basis of pressure. Votes against imhungry, for "lying" and being stupid.
Pages 21-30
1. notstevie92-Has epic argument with emerys. Starts last second defense of imhungry.
2. Mr DiFranco-Asks WoLG why he singled out duberz for an offense that many have made. Attacks emerys' logic. Votes bbtiger, to help motivate him to explain his theory. Votes imhungry because he sees no other option.
3. BBtigger-Votes himself in a joke post. Lays first vote on heywood, saying he has a theory about him. Retracts his theory, but not his vote.
4. WellOfLostGnomes-Analyzes our lurkers. Doesn't go after any of them in particular.
5. Heywood Jablome - Votes imhungry, for flinging mud everywhere while under suspicion. Heywood allegedly overreacts to a few FOSes. Defends himself saying he's just trying to get his attackers to post content, instead of vacuous joke posts.
6. [*b]Unvote[*/b]- Puts 8th vote on imhungry, due to the belief that he's faking. Kind of pushes both the heywood and imhungry wagons along. "I'm perfectly happy with an imhungry lynch", in response to notstevie.
7. duberz-
8. Mr. Maestro-(Ah hah! He returns again!) Puts 7th vote on imhungry for casting suspicion on others, says he'll be most suspicious of WOLG and heywood, after today, based on WOLG's grouping himself with a dead townie, and heywood's insults of duberz.
Votes heywood without explanation, and reiterates his suspicion of WOLG.
9. amnesiac -
10. Batman - Finally shows up out of the blue, after about 10 or so pages of not posting, says imhungry is looking more suspicious, and asks if everyone can see his banner ok.
11. Hunter Duck- Agrees that heywood overreacted. Defends notstevie. Agrees that lurkers, such as batman, are a problem, and that imhungry seems more parts newb than scum.
Pages 31-38
1. notstevie92-Lurker votes amnesiac. Epic argument with emerys, part 2. Votes batman, in response to his nothing is going on post. Questions duberz about vote order.
2. Mr DiFranco-Lurker votes amnesiac. FOSes emerys in response to his attack on notstevie. Ends the day with vote on imhungry. Lurker votes mozart, next day. FOSes, bbtiger and amnesiac, keeps vote on mozart. Suggests emery's attack holds more water, now that he was shown as townie. Batman and amnesiac look bad. Votes batman, out of restlessness. FOSes duberz.
3. BBtigger-Votes imhungry, because "he's tiring of this day".
4. WellOfLostGnomes-lurker votes mozart. Disagrees with unvote that we have to lynch batman to survive.
5. Heywood Jablome - FOSes bbtiger for his theory post. Votes Mozart, foses bbtiger and amnesiac. Votes batman, FOSes amnesiac. FOSes duberz.
6. [*b]Unvote[*/b]- Suspects that mafia are trying to hit the doctor. Suggests we race the mafia using morris' investigations. Votes batman for pressure. "For the game to survive, we have to lynch batman".
7. duberz-Lurker votes amnesiac. Suggest changing the kill order to amnesiac, and then batman. Notes that we shouldn't let prolific posters off the hook.
8. Mr. Maestro-FOSes WOLG for the same reasons as yesterday, and says he may have stumbled upon a posting trend that implicates him. Later retracts.
9. amnesiac -Imhungry is a distraction to finding the mafia, so we should lynch him. [WTF?] "yap".
10. Batman - Nothing is going on, so i'm not going to post.
11. Hunter Duck- We should look at emerys' record, and see what it tells us.
Whew. Ok.
After going through all of this again, Unvote seems a great deal more suspicious than I believed at first. He had a false dilemma that lynching imhungry was win-win. Puts 8th vote on imhungry, and notes that he's perfectly happy with him as a lynch. Suggests that we have to lynch batman for the game to survive. Suggests using Morris to race the mafia, a pretty suicidal plan.
Amnesiac now seems more in the same vein as imhungry. Not helpful, but not necessarily scum.
Batman's hiding and early activity vs. imhungry has been suspicious, and it's especially hypocritical in light of his early calls for people to delurk. Still, not quite sure about him.
Mr. Maestro seems to have been a lurker that's been hiding under the radar just as badly, however, and has had even more poor justifications for votes as Batman.
BBtiger: has acted a little weird from time to time.
Heywood-Meh. His behavior seems genuine.
Mr. Difranco. Has been playing strongly, for the most part.
Duberz-Meh. Iffy.
WOLG-Meh. Iffy.
Hunterduck- only a few blips, here and there.
Some of the last three I may need to look over more carefully later, but I've got some friends coming over and I'm running out of time to spare for this right now.
However, I'm becoming much more concerned by unvote, and by mr. maestro right now than anyone else in the thread, and I'm fairly evenly split between deciding which I want to vote against.
I agree except reversed kill Amnesiac now, Batman tomorrow. So I'm going to leave my vote on Amnesiac. All the lurkers need to be proded. But how do we know that the remaining mafia members are the lurkers? It could be someone we least suspect, going after scum just like the rest of us to divert attention. We should consider this.
Meh. While I'm here...
Duberz: If you're a townie, why would the kill order matter?
Also, while it could easily be one of our analysts, so far none of them have made a mistake, whereas our lurkers have been making play errors as well as sabotaging the game for the town by cutting off the flow of information.
I'm going to sum up some of the main points against everyone in the thread a little later on, and I'm increasingly getting the feeling that one of amnesiac and batman is a townie that the mob wants us to false lynch.
Is the town allowed to concede? This is pretty pointless. All we can do is fire blindly into a crowd of lurkers, and hope that we randomly hit someone.
Fixed.
Also, I'm not sure if Batman beats him out on the posting. Maestro hasn't posted since before the mod-kills, not sure when Batman last posted, but they're both pretty bad.
For stylistic reasons though, I'm more inclined to go after Maestro first. Scummier reasoning, more bandwagoning votes, more staying off the radar.
Huh? He wanted us to vote no lynch and race the mafia with investigations, because he had an aggressive voting strategy?
He believed that lynching Batman was necessary for the survival of the game, because he likes a fast pace?
He thought that lynching imhungry was a win-win situation for the town, (when clearly the town can use every townie we can get, especially now) simply because he likes to vote for people?
The first one has nothing to do with aggressive votes at all. It's exactly the opposite. And the next two are simply bad justifications for aggressive voting, they aren't symptoms of it. If he was simply an aggressive player, he could have gone after them by using better reasons, however, he chose to use scummy ones because of the lack of conclusive evidence against those players.
I don't think you managed to hit all of these, specifically the bolded ones:
Yeah, actually, you only answered one of those in your first post, out of 4.
Him. Whoever he is.
1. notstevie92-Accused imhungry of trying to get him mod-killed.
2. Mr DiFranco-Warns players against becoming mod-killed by discussing real accounts.
3. BBtigger-Voted against Imhungry in order to end the day.
4. WellOfLostGnomes-
5. Heywood Jablome - Absent.
6. [*b]Unvote[*/b]- Came down on notstevie and imhungry for spamming the thread. Unvoted imhungry once he began posting grammar correctly, and states that was all he really wanted.
7. duberz-Very spammy.
8. Mr. Maestro-
9. amnesiac -Absent.
10. Batman - Voted for imhungry due to grammar, right after Wolfgang started the wagon. Backed off almost immediately when told it was a third vote. Continued to pressure imhungry, later. Was seriously in favor of lurker-hunting, early in the thread.
11. Hunter Duck- Also didn't appreciate the apparent spam. Picks out a post of Batmans that he says looks like Batman is hinting to have role information, and votes against him.
Pages 11-20
1. notstevie92-
2. Mr DiFranco-Notes that Wolfgang seems to be pushing a little hard for a lynch. FOSes imhungry, due to wolfgang's death.
3. BBtigger-Suggests finding out what types of music are in the game, presumably by mass claiming. Votes imhungry because he thinks he's trying to draw attention to himself to screw up the late game: no idea what he's talking about here.
4. WellOfLostGnomes-Votes against imhungry for declaring his willingness to claim, early in the day. Attacks imhungry's vote against batman. Suggests that imhungry realized too late that he shouldn't draw attention to himself, and that's why he disappeared. On 2nd day, votes imhungry citing the reasons from yesterday. Calls attention to duberz.
5. Heywood Jablome - Arrives on scene, asks mr. difranco to post more content. Tells imhungry he's not being framed. Notes that amnesiac's behavior isn't good for the town. Says he wouldn't mind seeing duberz die for spamming and lurking. Says that unvote's last two posts haven't had much in them.
6. [*b]Unvote[*/b]- Argues that lynching imhungry would be win-win, because he's not smart.
7. duberz-FOSes amnesiac for showing up late.
8. Mr. Maestro-(ah hah! so he DOES exist) FOSes Batman, and votes against imhungry: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=14339&page=12&pp=15
Imjungry for his extremly annoying posting, his refusal of believing a mod about the lack of identity of someone, and voting someone who voted him just before. And what sticks out most to me is how he seems to be posting with more crypticness as this goes on
Batman has been rather odd with his line of thought, and esp the change of reasoning for his vote on im hungry.
Our best bets for catching scum are like in lotr mafia, bad posting; by that token Im hungry would look like the best lynch however he still could be a newbie. But someone posted it already not sure who though, I think wolfgang, but a nebie likely wouldn't sign up for a specialty game for his first game. Sorry for the early bought of lurking, I'll be sure to check this thread more often
Voting for annoying posting is a pretty bad reason. Also, bad posting is NOT the way you catch mafia, you catch mafia by finding scummy posts and inconsistencies.
9. amnesiac -Amnesiac, arrives and claims n00b. Votes imhungry, out of anger. Agrees with emery about lynching townies.
10. Batman -
11. Hunter Duck-Defends imhungry as a newblet. A few posts later, he consents to voting for him on the basis of pressure. Votes against imhungry, for "lying" and being stupid.
Pages 21-30
1. notstevie92-Has epic argument with emerys. Starts last second defense of imhungry.
2. Mr DiFranco-Asks WoLG why he singled out duberz for an offense that many have made. Attacks emerys' logic. Votes bbtiger, to help motivate him to explain his theory. Votes imhungry because he sees no other option.
3. BBtigger-Votes himself in a joke post. Lays first vote on heywood, saying he has a theory about him. Retracts his theory, but not his vote.
4. WellOfLostGnomes-Analyzes our lurkers. Doesn't go after any of them in particular.
5. Heywood Jablome - Votes imhungry, for flinging mud everywhere while under suspicion. Heywood allegedly overreacts to a few FOSes. Defends himself saying he's just trying to get his attackers to post content, instead of vacuous joke posts.
6. [*b]Unvote[*/b]- Puts 8th vote on imhungry, due to the belief that he's faking. Kind of pushes both the heywood and imhungry wagons along. "I'm perfectly happy with an imhungry lynch", in response to notstevie.
7. duberz-
8. Mr. Maestro-(Ah hah! He returns again!) Puts 7th vote on imhungry for casting suspicion on others, says he'll be most suspicious of WOLG and heywood, after today, based on WOLG's grouping himself with a dead townie, and heywood's insults of duberz.
Votes heywood without explanation, and reiterates his suspicion of WOLG.
9. amnesiac -
10. Batman - Finally shows up out of the blue, after about 10 or so pages of not posting, says imhungry is looking more suspicious, and asks if everyone can see his banner ok.
11. Hunter Duck- Agrees that heywood overreacted. Defends notstevie. Agrees that lurkers, such as batman, are a problem, and that imhungry seems more parts newb than scum.
Pages 31-38
1. notstevie92-Lurker votes amnesiac. Epic argument with emerys, part 2. Votes batman, in response to his nothing is going on post. Questions duberz about vote order.
2. Mr DiFranco-Lurker votes amnesiac. FOSes emerys in response to his attack on notstevie. Ends the day with vote on imhungry. Lurker votes mozart, next day. FOSes, bbtiger and amnesiac, keeps vote on mozart. Suggests emery's attack holds more water, now that he was shown as townie. Batman and amnesiac look bad. Votes batman, out of restlessness. FOSes duberz.
3. BBtigger-Votes imhungry, because "he's tiring of this day".
4. WellOfLostGnomes-lurker votes mozart. Disagrees with unvote that we have to lynch batman to survive.
5. Heywood Jablome - FOSes bbtiger for his theory post. Votes Mozart, foses bbtiger and amnesiac. Votes batman, FOSes amnesiac. FOSes duberz.
6. [*b]Unvote[*/b]- Suspects that mafia are trying to hit the doctor. Suggests we race the mafia using morris' investigations. Votes batman for pressure. "For the game to survive, we have to lynch batman".
7. duberz-Lurker votes amnesiac. Suggest changing the kill order to amnesiac, and then batman. Notes that we shouldn't let prolific posters off the hook.
8. Mr. Maestro-FOSes WOLG for the same reasons as yesterday, and says he may have stumbled upon a posting trend that implicates him. Later retracts.
9. amnesiac -Imhungry is a distraction to finding the mafia, so we should lynch him. [WTF?] "yap".
10. Batman - Nothing is going on, so i'm not going to post.
11. Hunter Duck- We should look at emerys' record, and see what it tells us.
Whew. Ok.
After going through all of this again, Unvote seems a great deal more suspicious than I believed at first. He had a false dilemma that lynching imhungry was win-win. Puts 8th vote on imhungry, and notes that he's perfectly happy with him as a lynch. Suggests that we have to lynch batman for the game to survive. Suggests using Morris to race the mafia, a pretty suicidal plan.
Amnesiac now seems more in the same vein as imhungry. Not helpful, but not necessarily scum.
Batman's hiding and early activity vs. imhungry has been suspicious, and it's especially hypocritical in light of his early calls for people to delurk. Still, not quite sure about him.
Mr. Maestro seems to have been a lurker that's been hiding under the radar just as badly, however, and has had even more poor justifications for votes as Batman.
BBtiger: has acted a little weird from time to time.
Heywood-Meh. His behavior seems genuine.
Mr. Difranco. Has been playing strongly, for the most part.
Duberz-Meh. Iffy.
WOLG-Meh. Iffy.
Hunterduck- only a few blips, here and there.
Some of the last three I may need to look over more carefully later, but I've got some friends coming over and I'm running out of time to spare for this right now.
However, I'm becoming much more concerned by unvote, and by mr. maestro right now than anyone else in the thread, and I'm fairly evenly split between deciding which I want to vote against.
Try and convince me why I shouldn't vote for you.
Meh. While I'm here...
Duberz: If you're a townie, why would the kill order matter?
Also, while it could easily be one of our analysts, so far none of them have made a mistake, whereas our lurkers have been making play errors as well as sabotaging the game for the town by cutting off the flow of information.