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  • posted a message on Fires of invention deck
    Quote from Kain123 »
    If you play with several opponents, Syphon Mind is a nice card to fetch for with your Dimir House Guard. More cards in hand means more options and it's a great card to play on the same turn as Fires of Invention to ensure that you get your 5th land.


    Since my meta is almost always 4 players, no more, no less, Syphon Mind is pretty much Harmonize, a fine card but not stellar. Still, fine is 3 cards and as a freebie in a tricolor deck, perhaps that is all it needs to be.

    Quote from Kain123 »
    You run a lot of tutors, why so many ? ...you will spend your time looking for options instead of actually playing cards that will make you win the game. There is also stronger cards than Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God for this deck. I would rather see him in a planeswalker-oriented deck.


    You aren't wrong here, admittedly I like the card and being Grixis colors blah blah blah....perhaps I play it as a singleton and just tutor for it when I am ready to try and win with it?

    Quote from Kain123 »
    I'm not a big fan of Sphinx of Lost Truth ...I tried it and it always seemed to me that I was in one of these two situations:

    1) I was looking for a Fires of Invention and this card didnt help me
    or
    2) I had my engine going and I had stronger cards in hand that I could play.


    The issue with Fires of Invention decks is that you end up playing a lot of "overcosted" cards simply because with Fires out, the mana sink allows you to gain incremental value, but without it, you probably wouldn't play nearly as many of them. It's a fine balance.

    Do you have some examples of cards for your second point?

    Quote from Kain123 »
    You might need more cards that will protect you in the early game....I like Bonecrusher Giant since it allows me to cast on turn 2 and turn 3 while waiting for turn 4 to play Fires of Invention


    Yes, my early game needs work here, which is why I was asking for ideas. I suppose I could just play the usual MBC cards to keep my opponents off balance.

    Quote from Prid3 »


    I disagree. Lim-Dûl's Vault is a 2-drop that all-but guarantees a turn 4 Fires of Invention so there's realistically nothing better to be casting on that turn. After all, not only does it find Fires + the lands to cast it but you can also stack your library to ensure you don't draw Fires until the turn that you're looking to cast it (to dodge discard). Dimir House Guard does the same thing on 3 CMC and, because Transmute isn't a spell, enables you to go Transmute -> Mastermind's Acquisition -> [ANY SPELL] once you have a Fires out. Between 4x DHG and 4x Mastermind's Acquisition you're drawing into 8 copies of [ANY SPELL IN THE GAME] once you have a Fires out which is nuts. Moreover, while 12x Fires of Invention may be overkill in a vacuum having this many virtual copies means that removal doesn't especially bother you. This deck struggles to play Magic without one since your spells become far too expensive so it behooves to go all-in on playing as many copies as possible.


    This was my line of thought as well. I am fine setting up draws and tutoring each game so this control deck plays the best cards and has the best shot at actually controlling the game. Control can be tricky in multiplayer, my opponents often do powerful things so I need enough sweepers, sac effects, card draw, tutors, and the win cons. Without enough of all of these things, the deck is guaranteed to fail.



    Quote from Kain123 »
    I'll note that I play Massacre in all of my Dimir House Guard decks since it enables you to transform it into an Infest should you need some interaction on turn 3. It's a low-opportunity cost way to add some cheap interaction to the list.


    A year ago I would have disagreed with you. My meta just didn't have enough white in it to make the card valuable. This has changed and admittedly with Fires out, the card is pretty decent.

    Do you have a proposed decklist I can work off?
    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on Discussion: Recent Mulligan Changes and their Impact on Multiplayer
    Let me rephrase:

    When I say punish that birds of paradise, I mean playing my bonecrusher Giant type of spot removal which you are going to do anyways

    I agree, saving my Swords to plowshares for some sort of battlecruisers or combo card Bad Mike is the right line of play, I also assumed this was a given due to your expertise in the game.

    EDIT for clarity
    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on Discussion: Recent Mulligan Changes and their Impact on Multiplayer
    Once Upon a Time is not a good design, a card like this should have just been blue and look for land or non-creature spell, at least then, the usual whinging about blue would be expected........

    I personally stopped using mana dorks because they were pinged too often, setting you back. By the time someone sweeps the board of all artifacts/enchantments the mana rocks and utopia sprawl have already done their work. Our meta plays enough removal for these types of cards, but some players just leave that type of ramp alone, preferring to remove the problematic enchantment or creature that follows, like a painful quandary. Smart players know better, but Magic is full of players who can't see the bigger picture. I personally punish dorks every chance I can because if you don't stifle them, they will KO you, a few turns later.

    I agree, that the optimal line of play which includes OUAT, dork --> payoff is tough to compete against if you don't nut draw yourself. However, I do think that is where the politics of the table come into play. If you played that opener against me, I would immediately advise the table of what is going on and hope I can find support from other players. If no one steps up and the turn gets to me, then I will try to handle it. Our table is good at clipping fast starts who don't KO the table immediately.

    So the card is gross, but it doesn't often go unpunished, which means it isn't too big of a problem YET.



    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on Fires of invention deck
    Uninspired by the lack of consistency in the boros version of Fires, I am trying to put together a Grixis shell as that is one color combination I have long wanted to play but can never seem to find a style that works for me. I have no issues running out tutors and lots of them in order for the deck to be consistent. I still feel like control is the way to build this and I am looking for ideas to flesh out the deck. Not sure if Lim-Dûl's Vault is necessary here and perhaps I should be running more removal (like the full playset of damnation)

    Also, with all those tutors, seems to me that I should likely play a smart wishboard. Let's make the deck a Bolas inspired badass.



    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on Lucky Knights
    Quote from Prid3 »


    Agreed. The deck wins when it keeps and stick an Innkeeper and loses when it doesn't.



    Skullclamp, if you're allowed to play it, will turn it into a "real" deck so to speak. I've also cut 2x Konrad and 1x Order of Midnight for 3x Rankle, Master of Pranks because Priest + Rankle is fantastic at keeping the board clear. They even kill dumb things likes like Emrakul and Progenitus.


    I can and will play some skullclamp. So ditch the innkeepers or play both? I also picked up a playset of Rankle, Master of Pranks earlier and was looking for a home for it that isn't solely a STAX build. The cuts for Rankle make sense to me
    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on Boros Fires
    Pride: I think a thread about that would be great for discussion, I second it!

    I think you are right about Boros, perhaps it is just not consistent enough, although a deck THAT ALWAYS plays the same each game can become boring for some players very quickly. Part of the charm for Boros is I have ALL the cards, I don't for Grixis, but I do for Jeskai (at least off the top of my head). Maybe I try Jeskai first and if I still don't like it, I can go Grixis. I know I don't have enough copies Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God

    I love when you post decks, I enjoy trying them, seeing if it is something I want to play, making tweaks per my meta and running with it. Keep it up

    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on Lucky Knights
    Had a chance to run Golgari Adventures/knights over the weekend. The first game was garbage, I simply drew poorly and I was just overpowered by a Progenitus and other players were doing far more powerful things.

    The second game I won, because I had a double Innkeeper engine going, and my Priest wasn't removed so no one could stop me from locking them out as they could only play one creature at a time and didn't draw their removal

    Still, feels like the deck needs tweaking though as it feels fragile.

    Anyone adding anything "more potent" to their lists?

    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on Boros Fires
    Quote from Prid3 »


    I don't think it matters much one way or another. Any combination in any reasonable quantity should be fine. If I had to rank my choices in a vacuum it would be 4lspeth, DV, 6lspeth but DV pops over to #1 if you add those 2x Westvale Abbeys. That's assuming 4x Assemble though. If you're cutting 2 go with Elspeths because DV is useless with Luminarch Ascension.


    I have the Abbeys so those are in. I have playsets of both Elspeths so any combo of those can stay in. I have two copies of Assemble the legion which I pulled. I have the white castle and can play duals, shocks, temples, checks, etc....I have it all

    I play all the removal, from Wraths, to 3 mana sweepers, to STP, and enough artifact/enchantment removal to boot.

    I just want to up the power level
    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on Boros Fires
    If playing Divine Visitation is it actually better to run Elspeth, knight-Errant for the opportunity to hit that emblem or is it still better to just play Elspeth, sun's champion

    Do I have room for both Wink
    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on Boros Fires
    Westvale Abbey is a low opportunity cost inclusion, I have two copies, so I will give it a whirl.

    Endless Atlas is pretty subpar. Once per circuit is limiting but yeah, I see your point.

    Generous Gift is a great card and sure there are applications like you already pointed out where Chaos Warp is better in my meta too. Will play those instead. I have crap luck that way.

    I think I drop the two assemble the legion and put in two divine visitation and hopefully those tokens can become 4/4 fliers

    I will update after the next play through
    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on Boros Fires
    Godo and Helm go infinite right? My table frowns on that, ALTHOUGH, one of the games went an hour b/c of lifegain stupidity, so perhaps this is the way to go. At some point, it is better to just WIN rather than be bored for 45 mins.

    Jokulhaups seems like a nombo with Fires of invention? Or am I missing something? Only seems good if I am already running an active Luminarch, which at that point it virtually seals the deal.

    Cavalier of Flame is average at best, tough to cast on curve b/c of trip red unless Fires is out. The filter is nice and the deck is hurting for draw. My meta needs early defence so I run the 0/4 wall what draws a card.

    I like Kenrith, the lifegain can be important, wish there was an easier way to use his draw, which is his best ability. I mean, if I am putting blue duals of some sort in the deck, I really should just go Jeskai and if I am going three colors, I feel like Grixis is stronger

    It's frustrating
    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on Boros Fires
    So, I gave this deck a full play today. I really like Fires of invention as a card, BUT the problem this deck has is both Elspeth, Sun's Champion and Assemble the legion are just too damn slow. No one wins MP games with 1/1's unless you go infinite.

    I also ran stolen strategy which adds some fun chaos to the game, but honestly, today it mainly disrupted my opponents, I never could get anything decent off it b/c my active Luminarch Ascension was actually putting out real threats.

    People aren't stupid though and the deck needs either another finisher, OR it needs something to convert those 1/1 tokens into something better. Either a divine visitation, anointed procession or cathars' crusade type of effect would work, but I am not sure they warrant a spot.

    Also, is it just me or is chaos Warp just trash? Both times I used it, it backfired and put better things on the board, /smh

    I had my luminarch ascension extirpated and that just killed the deck.

    I can control the board but can't protect my enchantments. I can't win with anemic token producers even in a 4 man meta. While I durdled, I was aetherflux resevoired and knocked out.

    So, what can I do to make this better, or do I just go Grixis, play 12 tutors and be done with it?
    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on Cat in the oven
    Is this a deck that gets more powerful by going Orzhov colors, instead of just mono black? Seems easy to play cruel celebrant over zulaport cutthroat
    Adding a couple of Athreos, God of passage as part of the payoff?
    Also, is there a way to turn this into double triggers via Teysa karlov yet another reason to splash white
    Chittering witch seems to have replaced Sengir autocrat unless you have room for copies 5-8 anywhere in the curve or in Ascend decks


    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on Monoblack Updates
    I mostly agree with everything you said.

    No love for Knight of the Ebon Legion? I realize that the one drop is quite saturated in black but I quite enjoy the card and it scales.

    Dread Presence loves Urborg, Tomb of yawgmoth allowing you to splash it with another color if you desire.

    Field of the dead is great in Gates as an alt-wincon, although I generally win by playing Maze's End before I can grind people out.

    Syr Konrad, the Grim This card is so much fun to play and really hoses some people. I was initially playing two but love the card that I got two more for virtually nothing. Highly recommended.




    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on Fires of invention deck
    Quote from Rezzahan »

    No, this doesn't work. You still have to pay the kicker, which is an additional cost, and not covered by "without paying the mana cost".


    It works, you just tap your lands to pay kicker costs. What doesn't work is paying X costs as you cast the spell, X always must equal zero.

    EDIT for clarity
    Posted in: Multiplayer
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