Hi guys! I want to build a deck full of cards that just work perfectly together, and will lead to a dominating board state or kill an opponent, without actually going infinite. I think the commander will be Anafenza, the Foremost and the backbone of the deck will be abusing ETB creatures with mass graveyard recursions like Twilight's Call, which Anafenza will swing in my favor. Here's a list of cool ones that I'd like to include, and I feel like if I find a few more like these, I can turn it into a pretty potent deck.
Scapeshift + Faith's Reward/Second Sunrise = Double my lands, and bring out all the aforementioned non-basics. Will create a rediculous amount of mana. Plus those instants will work very well with the ETB creatures too.
Essence of the Wild + token generator + Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx = Tons of mana. Each token copy has a CMC of 3GGG, so my devotion will get out of control. Plus I'll have an army og 6/6s!
1. Am I allowed to cast an "enchant creature" aura if there are no creatures on the battlefield, and thus have it sent straight to the graveyard? If so, would ETB effects like Flight of Fancy still trigger?
2. What if there are no creatures on the battlefield and I cast Retether? I assume the auras will end up back in the graveyard, but do they still "enter the battlefield" in between?
3. Now lets say I have an aura entering the battlefield via Retether or Flicker, and there ARE creatures on the battlefield. Am I allowed to choose to have it enter unattached to a creature and thus fall into the graveyard? Or must I choose to attach it to a creature if possible?
I run a Brago, King Eternal EDH deck based around auras, and these are the latest round of weird questions that have arisen because of Brago's ability. Thanks in advance!!!
Yeah, you guys are right. Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient CAN copy Temporal Aperture's ability, but unless you can cast the first card revealed at instant speed, it will go away once the second ability resolves.
Temporal Aperture is amazing, had an amazing experience with it!
Played my Karn deck, i pooped out my hand fast! I was winning! I had Vedalken Orrery out to grand my stuff flash, and i had Temporal Aperture in play. Someone topdecks an Austere Command and ofc says Artifacts and whatever, i spin the wheel of faith and i revealed Darksteel Forge! The whole table just erupted in laughter and hype! One of my sickest play.
My brother is playing his new Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient deck against my Brago, King Eternal deck. I have him on the ropes, and in desperation he activates Temporal Aperture after I attack with a voltron, pro-red Brago (We earlier realized that Temporal Aperture doesn't work as well as he'd hoped with Kurkesh, but he hadn't removed it yet.) While he's shuffling we're wondering what cards in his deck might save him, and realize Spine of Ish Sah is probably his only hope. Well, he flips Spine of Ish Sah, kills Brago, we laugh out loud, and he fights his way back to win the game.
Next game, very similar situation, I'm attacking him for lethal, and he activates Temporal Aperture in desparation. But this time, Spine of Ish Sah is on the board. So we try to think of what else could save him while he's shuffling, and couldn't think of anything. Boom, he flips Sculpting Steel. There is a second of silence, and then we both burst into laughter and are literally rolling on the floor. He copies Spine of Ish Sah, kills Brago, and again claws his way back to win the game.
I’ve been running a very similar deck for about a year now. It’s great to see someone else who has realized how massively awesome this general is! I only recently put my decklist on tapped-out, here it is http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/13-11-14-patron-of-the-orochi-edh/
I think I’m going to have to try out some of the cards you include like Reito Lantern (recursion + graveyard hate!) and Diviner’s Wand. Here are some of my favorites that you might like:
Hydra Broodmaster – One-card win-con with the Patron out. When it’s your diagonal opponent’s turn, untap your forests but don’t use them, and then when it’s the next guys turn right before yours, you can use all your forests twice and throw down 12 12/12 Hydras right before your turn. Can get pretty silly with mana doublers and such.
Skyshroud Poacher – I run a few more elves than you, but I still think you could get value out of him. With the patron you can tutor up all your elves in a single game turn and get massive card value. I usually get Wood Elves then Wren’s Run Packmaster, champion Wood Elves (get another ETB trigger if Wren dies), and start pooping out wolves while the Poacher keeps fetching utility cards like Reclamation Sage and Yeva, Nature’s Herald.
Magus of the Library – Early game mana dork (the colorless should never matter with our mana base), and then once the patron is out, if you play your cards right, she can draw you multiple cards a turn.
Silklash Spider – Good mana dump for the Patron. Shuts down a lot of decks. Has saved my butt on multiple occasions.
Momentous Fall – I see you mentioned this earlier. One of my favorite cards, I’m always happy to see it in my hand. I’m sure you’ve lost a few games because your patron has been killed a few times in a short time, without you getting any value out of him, it’s hard to recover from that. With Momentous Fall in my hand, I know that once I start going off, if anyone tries to kill the Patron, I can just draw 7 cards and gain 7 life, and really turn the tables.
Good luck to you! I love that you’ve also noticed the “scare rating” advantage. Whenever I’m at a table with new players, they look at my general like “Oh that’s cute.” And then once I start going off, someone inevitably says “Wait. Let me read your general again??” IMO, Patron of the Orochi is immensely more powerful than Omnath, Locus of Mana , and I don’t know why we’re two of the only people who realize that.
I've been running a Brago, King Eternal EDH deck and enjoying it, but a ton of rules questions have arisen because of his crazy ability. The deck is an aura based deck, so a lot of my questions have to do with Brago's interactions with auras. I've tried to remember as many as I can, but first I just want to make sure I am operating Brago's mechanic correctly:
First, when he deals combat damage, the trigger goes on the stack, and I declare the targets.
Then, when the ability resolves, all of the targets leave the battlefield simultaneously, and then immediately reenter the battlefield simultaneously.
Then, I choose the order that I want to place all my ETB triggers (knowing of course that first one placed will resolve last), and then work down the stack.
Okay, now onto the questions...
When Brago blinks an aura, how do I approach it's "attach" in regards to the stack? Does the "attach" go on the stack and then resolve with everything else? Or does it just happen immediately when the aura enters the battlefield?
I've heard that this is true, but I wanted to clarify: If I blink an aura with Brago, when it reenters the battlefield, can I attach it to a creature with shroud/hexproof?
Does the same principle apply to Retether? What about an aura returned with Sun Titan?
If Brago blinks a creature and an aura, can I attach that aura to the creature that entered the battlefield simultaneously with it? Or does the aura have to attach to a creature that did not leave the battlefield?
If Brago has double strike and connects, does it work like this: When first-strike damage hits, I resolve his ability as stated above. Then, once its resolved and the stack is empty, we move onto regular damage, and once again I resolve his ability as stated above. Correct?
If Brago has double strike and connects, and I choose to blink an attacking creature without first/double strike, that creature will not deal combat damage, correct?
If Brago blinks a Faith's Fetters which was attached to an opponent's creature, and then reattach it to the same creature upon reentry, is there any point in that process when my opponent can use the creature's activated abilities?
Feel free to answer as many as you see fit, you can refer to the question's number to keep things simple. Thanks in advance for your help!
With Marchesa, the Black Rose on the battlefield, since she specifically says "return... under your control" instead of "owner's control", I assume that if I cast Act of Treason an opponent's creature, attack with it and trigger dethrone, and I then Fling that creature, the creature will return to the battlefield under my control indefinitely. However, if I do the same thing to my opponent's commander, will he have the opportunity to place his commander in his command zone when I sacrifice it? Or will Marchesa's trigger force the commander to reappear under my control at the end of turn anyways?
Have you considered including Patron of the Orochi? I have a mono-green deck with him as a commander, and Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro is an all-star in it. I have a feeling the Patron would similarly be an all-star in your deck. He'd be functionally similar to Seedborn Muse because his ability will untap himself since he's a green creature, so you can untap green creatures and forests on everyone's turns, and additionally you can tap your forests and shamans twice on your turn (since you have your untap step in addition to the Patron). You could even flash the Patron into play for 4 mana right before your turn by saccing Sachi, and then recast Sachi right away, and start pumping out ridiculous amounts of mana.
A lot of his greatest cards are white, but here are a couple suggestions that I bet you'll love: Coat of Arms = GG. It might be "win more" in your deck, since the graveborns are already 3/1s, but maybe if you try it out you'll find its very valuable. Lifeline = This card is phenomenal, and relatively unknown. You can sac all your Apostles, and then they'll come back at the end of turn, so you can sac them during each players turn. Even if lifeline gets destroyed, the ability triggers when the creatures die, not at the end of turn, so they'll still come back that turn. Careful, because the ability applies to everyone, but you're deck should be able to abuse it much more than your opponents.
Sol Ring. I know it won't be banned, especially because it was reprinted in the new commander sets. But I would rejoice if it were. My brother and I have struggled to think of any hypothetical EDH deck that would not benefit from including Sol Ring. In my opinion, if there is a card that is considered an auto include almost every EDH decklist, it should be banned. It subtracts from the individuality of the format.
I have removed Sol Ring from all my decks, even though I know it would benifit them all. I encourage you to do the same. Be the change you want to see in the world!
I run such a low amount of lands because I have tons of ramp and fetch cards. Its something I'm trying out. I usually take a 2 land hand and can work with it, but if I find I'm not dropping enough lands, I'll add some more.
I don't like cards like Genesis Wave and Craterhoof Behemoth that I can just play and immediately win the game with. Its just who I am as a player, I don't think I'd get any joy from winning off a moster Genesis Wave, its not creative enough.
Changeling Titan is fun, because he can champion my ETB creatures, and then I can use him as a snake offering to cast the Patron cheaper and at instant speed. Nemesis of Mortals is also in there for a cheap snake offering late in the game. Patron of the Orochi starts out costing 8 so he can get expensive very quickly...
Yeah, I should probably at least add a Vernal Bloom.
PATRON OF THE OROCHI
I’ve tried a few times to make a respectable mono-colored EDH deck, and I think I’ve made a cool one with this guy in charge. It is a creature focused, heavy ramp, low land library, and it is stocked full of effects that I can use any turn with my untapped forests. The more players, the more centaurs, wolves and ants coming out to attack. Other effects take the double mana available on my turn and help the tokens deal lethal damage.
I’ve played about a dozen games with it, and I’m still trying to find a balance between the land and the ramp. I only have 30 lands (not counting Arena), but can get half of them out in a game.
The Patron untaps my lands and creatures on my turn, so I have double mana when he’s in play. Then, since he untaps himself, he can untap everything again on each of my opponents’ turns. So in a four player game, I can use each forest 5 times each game turn. Ideal scenario would be ramping up to an early Patron of the Orochi with a Thousand Year Elixir, Centaur Glade, and Elder of Laurels in play. If people can’t stop me, they won’t be around for long.
Any and all suggestions will be appreciated and considered! I’m particularly looking for good ways to protect my board state and / or recover from board wipes, which is an early problem for this deck. Thanks in advance for your help!
Cabal Coffers + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth = (obviously) tons of mana. But with green included, and cards like Sylvan Scrying and Tempt with Discovery, and other black tutors, I can pretty much guarantee to get these out every game. And then I can focus on getting stuff like Vesuva, Deserted Temple, and Thespian's Stage for even more mana.
Scapeshift + Faith's Reward/Second Sunrise = Double my lands, and bring out all the aforementioned non-basics. Will create a rediculous amount of mana. Plus those instants will work very well with the ETB creatures too.
Essence of the Wild + token generator + Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx = Tons of mana. Each token copy has a CMC of 3GGG, so my devotion will get out of control. Plus I'll have an army og 6/6s!
Entreat the Angels + Reclaim/Noxious Revival = Army of angels in a can.
Massacre Wurm + Sylvan Offering = Potentially dead opponent. I could include Natural Affinity if I really want to be mean.
Beacon of Immortality + False Cure = Definitely dead opponent.
Lord of Extinction/Serra Avatar + Momentous Fall/Life's Legacy = Draw half of my deck. I could include Rite of Consumption for a kill shot.
So that's what I've got going right now. Any suggestions for cool interactions like these?
1. Am I allowed to cast an "enchant creature" aura if there are no creatures on the battlefield, and thus have it sent straight to the graveyard? If so, would ETB effects like Flight of Fancy still trigger?
2. What if there are no creatures on the battlefield and I cast Retether? I assume the auras will end up back in the graveyard, but do they still "enter the battlefield" in between?
3. Now lets say I have an aura entering the battlefield via Retether or Flicker, and there ARE creatures on the battlefield. Am I allowed to choose to have it enter unattached to a creature and thus fall into the graveyard? Or must I choose to attach it to a creature if possible?
I run a Brago, King Eternal EDH deck based around auras, and these are the latest round of weird questions that have arisen because of Brago's ability. Thanks in advance!!!
Awesome! This reminds me of another great EDH play my brother's Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient pulled off. I was playing my Patron of the Orochi deck against him. He had a ridiculous board position with Darksteel Forge, Kuldotha Forgemaster, and a ton of other artifacts. I had a Tooth and Nail in hand, and I realized I could entwine it to bring out Brutalizer Exarch and Bane of Progress and stack the abilities to drop the Darksteel Forge on the bottom of his deck and then blow up all his artifacts. Well... he had the brilliant insight to activate Kuldotha Forgemaster in-between my two triggers to get back Darksteel Forge and make Bane of Progress whiff. Needless to say he stomped me into the ground soon after.
Next game, very similar situation, I'm attacking him for lethal, and he activates Temporal Aperture in desparation. But this time, Spine of Ish Sah is on the board. So we try to think of what else could save him while he's shuffling, and couldn't think of anything. Boom, he flips Sculpting Steel. There is a second of silence, and then we both burst into laughter and are literally rolling on the floor. He copies Spine of Ish Sah, kills Brago, and again claws his way back to win the game.
I think I’m going to have to try out some of the cards you include like Reito Lantern (recursion + graveyard hate!) and Diviner’s Wand. Here are some of my favorites that you might like:
Hydra Broodmaster – One-card win-con with the Patron out. When it’s your diagonal opponent’s turn, untap your forests but don’t use them, and then when it’s the next guys turn right before yours, you can use all your forests twice and throw down 12 12/12 Hydras right before your turn. Can get pretty silly with mana doublers and such.
Skyshroud Poacher – I run a few more elves than you, but I still think you could get value out of him. With the patron you can tutor up all your elves in a single game turn and get massive card value. I usually get Wood Elves then Wren’s Run Packmaster, champion Wood Elves (get another ETB trigger if Wren dies), and start pooping out wolves while the Poacher keeps fetching utility cards like Reclamation Sage and Yeva, Nature’s Herald.
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard – Like Skyshroud Poacher he has massive potential with the Patron, you can tutor up to 5 creatures out on a game turn. I will get Ulvenwald Tracker then Sakura-Tribe Elder and then on to all the juicy stuff. Awesome card advantage, and like Skyshroud Poacher, will win you the game if left alone.
Magus of the Library – Early game mana dork (the colorless should never matter with our mana base), and then once the patron is out, if you play your cards right, she can draw you multiple cards a turn.
Silklash Spider – Good mana dump for the Patron. Shuts down a lot of decks. Has saved my butt on multiple occasions.
Momentous Fall – I see you mentioned this earlier. One of my favorite cards, I’m always happy to see it in my hand. I’m sure you’ve lost a few games because your patron has been killed a few times in a short time, without you getting any value out of him, it’s hard to recover from that. With Momentous Fall in my hand, I know that once I start going off, if anyone tries to kill the Patron, I can just draw 7 cards and gain 7 life, and really turn the tables.
Good luck to you! I love that you’ve also noticed the “scare rating” advantage. Whenever I’m at a table with new players, they look at my general like “Oh that’s cute.” And then once I start going off, someone inevitably says “Wait. Let me read your general again??” IMO, Patron of the Orochi is immensely more powerful than Omnath, Locus of Mana , and I don’t know why we’re two of the only people who realize that.
A lot of his greatest cards are white, but here are a couple suggestions that I bet you'll love:
Coat of Arms = GG. It might be "win more" in your deck, since the graveborns are already 3/1s, but maybe if you try it out you'll find its very valuable.
Lifeline = This card is phenomenal, and relatively unknown. You can sac all your Apostles, and then they'll come back at the end of turn, so you can sac them during each players turn. Even if lifeline gets destroyed, the ability triggers when the creatures die, not at the end of turn, so they'll still come back that turn. Careful, because the ability applies to everyone, but you're deck should be able to abuse it much more than your opponents.
Good luck!
I have removed Sol Ring from all my decks, even though I know it would benifit them all. I encourage you to do the same. Be the change you want to see in the world!
I run such a low amount of lands because I have tons of ramp and fetch cards. Its something I'm trying out. I usually take a 2 land hand and can work with it, but if I find I'm not dropping enough lands, I'll add some more.
Yeah I should add Praetor's Council since I'm already running Creeping Renaissance.
Things like Illusionist Bracers, Rings of Brighthearth, and Seedborn Muse seem like win-more cards to me. But I will try them out if I find I can't pump out enough tokens with the amount of mana I already make.
Thanks for pointing out the better versions of things like Revive. I will gladly fix those!
I like the Tower of Fortunes and Staff of Domination recommendations, will definitely try those out.
I don't like cards like Genesis Wave and Craterhoof Behemoth that I can just play and immediately win the game with. Its just who I am as a player, I don't think I'd get any joy from winning off a moster Genesis Wave, its not creative enough.
Changeling Titan is fun, because he can champion my ETB creatures, and then I can use him as a snake offering to cast the Patron cheaper and at instant speed. Nemesis of Mortals is also in there for a cheap snake offering late in the game. Patron of the Orochi starts out costing 8 so he can get expensive very quickly...
Yeah, I should probably at least add a Vernal Bloom.
Gelatinous Genesis seems fun! I cut Wurmcalling but still want to try and make it work sometime.
Thanks for the suggestions guys!
I’ve tried a few times to make a respectable mono-colored EDH deck, and I think I’ve made a cool one with this guy in charge. It is a creature focused, heavy ramp, low land library, and it is stocked full of effects that I can use any turn with my untapped forests. The more players, the more centaurs, wolves and ants coming out to attack. Other effects take the double mana available on my turn and help the tokens deal lethal damage.
1 Patron of the Orochi
Lands
30 Forest
1 Arena
Creatures
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Sylvan Ranger
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Kazandu Tuskcaller
1 Shinen of Life's Roar
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Nantuko Mentor
1 Elder of Laurels
1 Eternal Witness
1 Wild Beastmaster
1 Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Karametra's Acolyte
1 Zoologist
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
1 Wildheart Invoker
1 Wren's Run Packmaster
1 Nullmage Shepherd
1 Changeling Titan
1 Ant Queen
1 Silklash Spider
1 Acidic Slime
1 Elvish Aberration
1 Sakiko, Mother of Summer
1 Nemesis of Mortals
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Bane of Progress
1 Brutalizer Exarch
1 Regal Force
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Call of the Wild
1 Asceticism
1 Centaur Glade
1 Spawning Grounds
Instants
1 Summoner's Pact
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Sprout Swarm
1 Evolution Charm
1 Hunter's Insight
1 Sprouting Vines
1 Krosan Grip
1 Beast Within
1 Chord of Calling
Sorcery
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Enshrined Memories
1 Rampant Grown
1 Revive
1 Cultivate
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Search for Tomorrow
1 Growth Spasm
1 Harmonize
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Explosive Vegitation
1 Hunting Wilds
1 Ranger's Path
1 Creeping Renaissance
1 Boundless Realms
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Horizon Spellbomb
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
I’ve played about a dozen games with it, and I’m still trying to find a balance between the land and the ramp. I only have 30 lands (not counting Arena), but can get half of them out in a game.
The Patron untaps my lands and creatures on my turn, so I have double mana when he’s in play. Then, since he untaps himself, he can untap everything again on each of my opponents’ turns. So in a four player game, I can use each forest 5 times each game turn. Ideal scenario would be ramping up to an early Patron of the Orochi with a Thousand Year Elixir, Centaur Glade, and Elder of Laurels in play. If people can’t stop me, they won’t be around for long.
Any and all suggestions will be appreciated and considered! I’m particularly looking for good ways to protect my board state and / or recover from board wipes, which is an early problem for this deck. Thanks in advance for your help!