After having played last FNM with the deck I have come to some conclusions:
- If Ruin raideris going to be a 3-4 of (which has worked fine for me), there needs to be a life-gain source maindeck. Otherwise, we are found in situations in which although we have control of the board AND card advantage, we cannot attack/draw because raider just kills us. I am thinking about 2x Athersphere harvester mainand removing the Fell flagships alltogether. The thing is that the ships are lavourfull as hell, but crew 3 limits our options a lot, and I still don't know why dinosaurs are so pushed and this ship can't even give +1/+1 to our guys. A real shame.
- Duress main is good, but I am starting to think we need something that also pressures our opponent while protecting our guys. I will try Hope of Ghirapur. It is still a T1 play, and plays well with Hostage takerif not removed, and also can give us time if we have seen our opponent's hand with Kitesail Freebooter to play around sweepers and be ready for them. Hope also takes pressure from our manabase and the need to have T1 black mana for duress, at least G1.
- Pirates are weak. They are not the most aggresive creatures in the format. They attack ok, but they defend horribly. They have good evasion, but they need more raw power. Fell flagship was there initially to power them up, but as mentioned before, it has fell short. For that, I am willing to try at least a 3-of Metallic mimic and see how it benefits our guys.
- Fatal push aside, black cheap removal sucks compared to other colours. Everything costs BB or/and is at sorcery speed.I'm still on the Trial of ambition plan, and have had mixed results. Sometimes it kills what it is supposed to, sometimes it doesn't matter. However, this deck needs more removal besides 4 push, but I can't see anything tempo-worthy. Any ideas? Right now, the deck would look like this:
Thoughts and advice are always welcomed
Edit: I am moving away from the (in)famous Scarab God because he is REALLY expensive right now, but if I had it, I would probably change the sideboard plan to include Bontu's last reckoning and 2 copies of the god.
10 Pre-board games against UW Approach. Record 10-0. With 7 duress effect in duressand Kitesail Freebooterplus no spot removal and Lookout's dispersalfor their sweepers this seems one of the best matchups for the deck. Also I found that Siren stormtamerhard counters Settle the wreckage, which feels like an awesome exchange :).I don't know how games would go after boarding, but seems tough to lose once we remove 4 fatal push and add lost legacy/ dispossessor spell pierce. Overall it felt like 80% favorable to us.
10 Pre-boarded games against Ramunap Red. Record: 0-10. This feels like an unwinnable matchup. They are more aggresive than we are, more resilient than we are, the deck has bigger creatures and they even have an awesome late-game. Found imposible to race them, and pirates defend poorly, so unless they have a terrible day, it's a lost cause. You have to help me here with the sideboard plan. I'm mainly a modern player, so I'm not much into standard. What cards are good against this deck? I want to avoid BB as much as possible since it is not so easy to assemble and curve gifted aetherborn(same reason why I'm not playing walk the plank. I've seen Essence Extraction as a plan for most black decks, but again, BB is risky in this deck. I am going to try Aethersphere harvesterand see how it goes, but I'm afraid 4x of abrade will come up as a problem. Again, as a modern player, I'm used to have matchups I just wanna avoid because they are bad even after boarding, but I'm glad to hear suggestions or ideas to face this deck.
Next testing will be against BG constrictor and RUG pummeler. I will post my results here in case anyone is interested.
Hi, I have finally put the deck together, focusing on keeping the manabase with as few tapped lands as possible: only 4 drowned catacomb and down to 1 fetid pools.
The reason behind this is not only having untapped mana available as often as possible, but also because I have tried to solve the Kitesail Freebooter problem of being a lightning rod by adding x3 duress to the mainboard, which can take their first removal spell, and I need my first mana of the game to be untapped. Three may be too many, but I have found them useful not only as a T1 play, but also as a guarantee before casting a Hostage taker.
Other changes I have made to make the mana easier is to replace any copies of walk the plank with trial of ambition. I also agree with usnummon being better than the other bounce spell because of the mana difference.
Lastly, I am trying a single bone pickerjust for fun. I know its not a pirate, but seems right in a tempo shell with fatal pushand so many lighting rods.
Hey there, first time poster in this thread. I've been looking to pick up this deck after coming over from the Saheeli Evolution-based lists. I've noticed there seem to be two main archetypes running around - the older/traditional version that runs Path to Exile, and then the newer high-placing lists that run mana denial in the form of Avalanche Rider, Blood Moon, and Fiery Justice. With the experience and play-testing within this thread, is one "better" positioned at the moment (or just a more competitive deck in general)? Anything special I should know about collecting/playing one list versus the other?
If your local field is too aggro(burn, affinity, dredge, ...), don't play my list
For big tournament like GP, nobody will expect MD blood moon, it will give you a big advantage
Hey, I've been playing your list for a couple of weeks and have had a blast, thank you. I t2 blood moon half of the games, and the other half I usually catch my opponents off-guard with fiery justice. The only drawback I have had from playing the deck has been having to hear complaints about both previously mentioned cards and how unfair they are.
I have two questions about the list. 1- If you had to choose as a MD option between Huntmaster of the fells and Pia and Kiran Nalaar, which one would you choose and why? 2- Have you ever casted Devout lightcaster succesfully? Was it a reliable tool during your testing?
I'm pretty happy with my mainboard. i love having the 3 rituals and i still can't think of a time I wished i had more than 1 manamorphose. brutality has been great.
sb is a bit more subject to change. i still think lightning axe is great in this meta and kills everything relevant. i think i should have two sprees in the sb but am unsure what the cut is. also anger probably needs to be a kreturn. i also need to do a sb chart because i feel like i have too many cards to bring in in some matchups. gut tells me I'm shaving one chalice or moon in favor of the spree.
a sb idea ive wanted to try actually is something i saw in an IQ list. theoretically this is a resilient alternative win con and discard outlet and could create enough of a wall to buy time. has anyone tried this?
I'm going for PPTQ this weekend and I'm planning to take my pet deck since last year I wasn't able to play magic at all and I am exicted to get back to modern again. I went to a tourney 2 weeks ago and posted my list here. Only a few changes will be made, but before I wanted to ask for forum wisdom.
1- What are the risks of going below 19 lands (seems the consensus)? I have played several matches using a list from an asian guy that I am unable to find now in which he played 17 lands and added +2 Borbo. I have yet to have an issue with the lands. The closest thing to a land trouble that has happened was that I once was 1 land short of killing my opponent with a borbo in play, but he scooped anyway when the count added up to five (he was at 17). Since I have only played 20 games, which I consider a small sample, I am considering -1 Borbo, +1 land. The extra borbos have been useful, as I described in my last post vs counters-company
2- In my last list I had shatterstorm in my sb. I am willing to replace it, but I'd like to know what would be the best card to replace it with. I have been thinking about shattering spree of course, but also thought that it might be too red intensive (by force maybe?) and that engineered explosives provides extra flexibility overall, especially vs rest in peace. As a curiosity, they once saved me against empty the warrens against storm.
3- What is the sb plan against Tron? The moons look too obvious, but they might just delay the go-over-the-top game and not the aggro part, which could be an issue combined with relics and surgical extractions
After almost a year off of playing modern, I went to a crowded FNM with my pet deck. I really didn't have a lot of time to make significant changes in my deck, so I took the deck as it was and just changed -4 leylines and added +4 blood moons to the side. The list ended up as follows:
Round 1 VS Affinity
- Game 1: I win the diceroll and start with a hand that is able to breach a wurm on turn 4 while splicing a shoal. Muliganing probably won't be any better so I play it out. He starts fast, but lacks hard-hitting creatures. He never topdecks a plating and I win attacking with the wurm and later reanimating a borborygmos to finish the job. -1 breach, -2 whisper, -1 manamorphose / +3 anger, +1 shatterstorm
- Game 2: My hand is ok, but since he is mulliganing, I feel like I have time. He starts really fast with critters, plating and master. I luckily topdeck the last piece of the combo and am able to hit with Griselbrand, draw 14 and combo from there. 1-0
Round 2 VS Vizier Company
- Game 1: I win the diceroll and keep a hand with 2 looting, reunion, 2 borborygmos and a breach. I discard both borborygmos while trying to get one of my game enders. He drops an ooze t3 and feels very confident exiling both borborygmos from my gy (I can see it in his face). He feels obviously surprised when I eventually combo off with Grisel and breach the third Borborygmos, which he admits didn't reckon I was packing, and win the game. -1 reunion, -1 borbo, - 1 ritual, -1 whisper / + 3 anger, +1 Emrakul
- Game 2: My opponent kept a mediocre hand which is able to cast a Linvala, Keeper of silence on t3. Unfortunately for him, he never reaches that turn and dies to a t2 Griselbrand. 2-0
Round 3 VS Jund He is a friend of mine, and I know he has been playing the deck only for a few months, so I may have a chance here.
- Game 1: I lose the diceroll and keep a hand with 2 goryo's, 2 shoals and a reunion. He pulls out his combo of black source + discard and takes the reuinon. I do nothing t2, he inquisitions me again and takes one of the vengeances, I do nothing for a couple of turns while he plays dark confidant + goyf. For some reason, he EOTs commands me making me discard. I discard Griselbrand, reanimate him and win out of this mistake (and my luck to have drawn a Griselbrand that turn) -1 ritual, -1 manamorphose, -2 reunion / +4 bloo moon
- Game 2: I keep a hilarious hand: 2 simian, 1 moon, 1 griselbrand, 1 looting, 1 goryo's, 1 shoal. If I draw a land I can either combo or moon t1. He inquisitions me t1 and takes the vengeance, but I topdeck a ritual and cast blood moon out of the ritual + the two monkeys. The games stays still for 5 turns when I finally topdeck a looting and manage to find a black source to be able to combo and he can't do anything since his four lands were basic mountains.3-0
Round 4 VS Storm:
- Game 1: Win the diceroll and keep a fast hand. He playst Baral t2, as a consequence he dies back from an uncontested Griselbrand. -1 breach, -1 reunion, -1 temple, -1 borborygmos / +3 pact, +1 boseiju
- Game 2: I mull to 5 and try to combo when he is cantripping at the end of one of my turns. I fail to find anything relevant and die proudly to my own eck.
- Game 3: This time my opponent plays more carefully, always leaving 1-2 mana up. It doesn't matter because I have pact of negation backup and all he has is a remand, so I win the round and the FNM. 4-0
Overall I think I got lucky and had lots of good matchups. The meta was very favourable, with 0 shadow deks around. The worst matchups were jund, junk, a mill deck and probably a guy playing merfolk. I only faced one of them, while also avoiding other great matchups in scapeshift and tron. I felt my maindeck was good, and probalby would make a couple of changes in my sb, especially getting rid of shatterstorm for something like Shattering spree.
Hi all. I am mainly -a modern player, but I also like playing sealed and prereleases. I just opened 2 Chandras and wanted to asked you type 2 guys if you think her current price (30 Euro/34$) is good to sell or if it has chances to go up. I have received offers for 25 Euro/28$ and I 'm unsure what to do since I really don't know how the Standard metagame will welcome her.
Relic is more limited because it only focuses on the graveyard. Nahiri, Chord of Calling, and Collected Company are shut off by Grafdigger's Cage but aren't affected by Relic.
If your local meta is light on Abzan CoCo, Elves, and Jeskai Nahiri, then you'd probably be alright with Relic. I'm sure there are other similar matchups to consider, but I feel like those are the most relevant.
Hi. Finally decided to build the deck, since I already owned 90% of the cards. While checking the sideboard, found few to no lists running Relic of Progenitus. Since cage's price has gone sky high, I was wondering if relic is just far worse or if it's meta dependent.
Hi. I recently changed from mono-white to the Wb Eldrazi version. While I'm having a blast playing the deck with a new approach, I miss having more plays T1. Are 1drops all that important? Maybe thoughtseize or Iok could be squeezed in in order to have more than 4 T1 plays appart from vial.
It's really nice to see this thread going so active and the deck getting recognition. Keep all the good work!
By taking a quick look at your pool, it seems white is in a really good shape, and you have nice removal in black, while having some good creatures.
I really like the look of your GB deck, but it is always a shame not playing always watchingas, in my experience, wins game on its own. Also, in a delirium deck, topplegeistis just gross, but the cost of splashing white may well not be worth it. If you see yourself having problem turning delirium on, add a wicker witch, they are awesome for that goal.
- If Ruin raideris going to be a 3-4 of (which has worked fine for me), there needs to be a life-gain source maindeck. Otherwise, we are found in situations in which although we have control of the board AND card advantage, we cannot attack/draw because raider just kills us. I am thinking about 2x Athersphere harvester mainand removing the Fell flagships alltogether. The thing is that the ships are lavourfull as hell, but crew 3 limits our options a lot, and I still don't know why dinosaurs are so pushed and this ship can't even give +1/+1 to our guys. A real shame.
- Duress main is good, but I am starting to think we need something that also pressures our opponent while protecting our guys. I will try Hope of Ghirapur. It is still a T1 play, and plays well with Hostage takerif not removed, and also can give us time if we have seen our opponent's hand with Kitesail Freebooter to play around sweepers and be ready for them. Hope also takes pressure from our manabase and the need to have T1 black mana for duress, at least G1.
- Pirates are weak. They are not the most aggresive creatures in the format. They attack ok, but they defend horribly. They have good evasion, but they need more raw power. Fell flagship was there initially to power them up, but as mentioned before, it has fell short. For that, I am willing to try at least a 3-of Metallic mimic and see how it benefits our guys.
- Fatal push aside, black cheap removal sucks compared to other colours. Everything costs BB or/and is at sorcery speed.I'm still on the Trial of ambition plan, and have had mixed results. Sometimes it kills what it is supposed to, sometimes it doesn't matter. However, this deck needs more removal besides 4 push, but I can't see anything tempo-worthy. Any ideas? Right now, the deck would look like this:
4x Drowned Catacomb
1x Evolving wilds (help trigger revolt)
9x Swamp
9x Island
Creatures
4x Siren stormtamer
2x Hope of Ghirapur
4x Fathom Fleet Captain
4x Kitesail Freebooter
3x Ruin raider
3x Hostage taker
1x Dreamcaller siren
4x Fatal push
4x Lookout's dispersal
1x Unsummon
1x Consign // Oblivion
2x Aethersphere harvester
1x Trial of ambition
2x Spell pierce
3x Trial of ambition
3x Duress
2x Dispossess
2x Sentinel totem
1x Cartouche of ambition
1x Vraska's contempt
1x Kefnet's last word
Thoughts and advice are always welcomed
Edit: I am moving away from the (in)famous Scarab God because he is REALLY expensive right now, but if I had it, I would probably change the sideboard plan to include Bontu's last reckoning and 2 copies of the god.
4x Drowned Catacomb
1x Fetid pools
9x Swamp
9x Island
Creatures
4x Siren stormtamer
4x Fathom Fleet Captain
4x Kitesail Freebooter
4x Ruin raider
3x Hostage taker
1x Dreamcaller siren
1x Bone picker
4x Fatal push
4x Lookout's dispersal
3x Duress
2x Unsummon
2x Fell flagship
1x Trial of ambition
3x Spell pierce
2x Trial of ambition
2x Dispossess
2x Sentinel totem
1x Cartouche of ambition
1x Walk the plank
1x Vraska's contempt
1x Aethersphere Harvester
10 Pre-board games against UW Approach. Record 10-0. With 7 duress effect in duressand Kitesail Freebooterplus no spot removal and Lookout's dispersalfor their sweepers this seems one of the best matchups for the deck. Also I found that Siren stormtamerhard counters Settle the wreckage, which feels like an awesome exchange :).I don't know how games would go after boarding, but seems tough to lose once we remove 4 fatal push and add lost legacy/ dispossessor spell pierce. Overall it felt like 80% favorable to us.
10 Pre-boarded games against Ramunap Red. Record: 0-10. This feels like an unwinnable matchup. They are more aggresive than we are, more resilient than we are, the deck has bigger creatures and they even have an awesome late-game. Found imposible to race them, and pirates defend poorly, so unless they have a terrible day, it's a lost cause. You have to help me here with the sideboard plan. I'm mainly a modern player, so I'm not much into standard. What cards are good against this deck? I want to avoid BB as much as possible since it is not so easy to assemble and curve gifted aetherborn(same reason why I'm not playing walk the plank. I've seen Essence Extraction as a plan for most black decks, but again, BB is risky in this deck. I am going to try Aethersphere harvesterand see how it goes, but I'm afraid 4x of abrade will come up as a problem. Again, as a modern player, I'm used to have matchups I just wanna avoid because they are bad even after boarding, but I'm glad to hear suggestions or ideas to face this deck.
Next testing will be against BG constrictor and RUG pummeler. I will post my results here in case anyone is interested.
The reason behind this is not only having untapped mana available as often as possible, but also because I have tried to solve the Kitesail Freebooter problem of being a lightning rod by adding x3 duress to the mainboard, which can take their first removal spell, and I need my first mana of the game to be untapped. Three may be too many, but I have found them useful not only as a T1 play, but also as a guarantee before casting a Hostage taker.
Other changes I have made to make the mana easier is to replace any copies of walk the plank with trial of ambition. I also agree with usnummon being better than the other bounce spell because of the mana difference.
Lastly, I am trying a single bone pickerjust for fun. I know its not a pirate, but seems right in a tempo shell with fatal pushand so many lighting rods.
Hey, I've been playing your list for a couple of weeks and have had a blast, thank you. I t2 blood moon half of the games, and the other half I usually catch my opponents off-guard with fiery justice. The only drawback I have had from playing the deck has been having to hear complaints about both previously mentioned cards and how unfair they are.
I have two questions about the list. 1- If you had to choose as a MD option between Huntmaster of the fells and Pia and Kiran Nalaar, which one would you choose and why? 2- Have you ever casted Devout lightcaster succesfully? Was it a reliable tool during your testing?
Thanks!
What is it exactly?
1- What are the risks of going below 19 lands (seems the consensus)? I have played several matches using a list from an asian guy that I am unable to find now in which he played 17 lands and added +2 Borbo. I have yet to have an issue with the lands. The closest thing to a land trouble that has happened was that I once was 1 land short of killing my opponent with a borbo in play, but he scooped anyway when the count added up to five (he was at 17). Since I have only played 20 games, which I consider a small sample, I am considering -1 Borbo, +1 land. The extra borbos have been useful, as I described in my last post vs counters-company
2- In my last list I had shatterstorm in my sb. I am willing to replace it, but I'd like to know what would be the best card to replace it with. I have been thinking about shattering spree of course, but also thought that it might be too red intensive (by force maybe?) and that engineered explosives provides extra flexibility overall, especially vs rest in peace. As a curiosity, they once saved me against empty the warrens against storm.
3- What is the sb plan against Tron? The moons look too obvious, but they might just delay the go-over-the-top game and not the aggro part, which could be an issue combined with relics and surgical extractions
4 Bloodstained mire
4 Temple of malice
2 Blood crypt
4 swamp
3 mountain
Creatures:
4 Griselbrand
4 Worldspine wurm
4 Borborygmos enraged
4 Simian spirit guide
4 Goryo's vengeance
4 Through the breach
4 Faithless looting
4 Cathartic reunion
4 Night's whisper
4 Nourishing shoal
2 Desperate ritual
1 Manamorphose
1 Boseiju, who shelters all
3 Pact of negation
2 Collective brutality
3 Anger of the gods
4 Blood moon
1 Shatterstorm
1 Emrakul, the aeons torn
Round 1 VS Affinity
- Game 1: I win the diceroll and start with a hand that is able to breach a wurm on turn 4 while splicing a shoal. Muliganing probably won't be any better so I play it out. He starts fast, but lacks hard-hitting creatures. He never topdecks a plating and I win attacking with the wurm and later reanimating a borborygmos to finish the job.
-1 breach, -2 whisper, -1 manamorphose / +3 anger, +1 shatterstorm
- Game 2: My hand is ok, but since he is mulliganing, I feel like I have time. He starts really fast with critters, plating and master. I luckily topdeck the last piece of the combo and am able to hit with Griselbrand, draw 14 and combo from there. 1-0
Round 2 VS Vizier Company
- Game 1: I win the diceroll and keep a hand with 2 looting, reunion, 2 borborygmos and a breach. I discard both borborygmos while trying to get one of my game enders. He drops an ooze t3 and feels very confident exiling both borborygmos from my gy (I can see it in his face). He feels obviously surprised when I eventually combo off with Grisel and breach the third Borborygmos, which he admits didn't reckon I was packing, and win the game.
-1 reunion, -1 borbo, - 1 ritual, -1 whisper / + 3 anger, +1 Emrakul
- Game 2: My opponent kept a mediocre hand which is able to cast a Linvala, Keeper of silence on t3. Unfortunately for him, he never reaches that turn and dies to a t2 Griselbrand. 2-0
Round 3 VS Jund
- Game 1: I lose the diceroll and keep a hand with 2 goryo's, 2 shoals and a reunion. He pulls out his combo of black source + discard and takes the reuinon. I do nothing t2, he inquisitions me again and takes one of the vengeances, I do nothing for a couple of turns while he plays dark confidant + goyf. For some reason, he EOTs commands me making me discard. I discard Griselbrand, reanimate him and win out of this mistake (and my luck to have drawn a Griselbrand that turn)
-1 ritual, -1 manamorphose, -2 reunion / +4 bloo moon
- Game 2: I keep a hilarious hand: 2 simian, 1 moon, 1 griselbrand, 1 looting, 1 goryo's, 1 shoal. If I draw a land I can either combo or moon t1. He inquisitions me t1 and takes the vengeance, but I topdeck a ritual and cast blood moon out of the ritual + the two monkeys. The games stays still for 5 turns when I finally topdeck a looting and manage to find a black source to be able to combo and he can't do anything since his four lands were basic mountains.3-0
Round 4 VS Storm:
- Game 1: Win the diceroll and keep a fast hand. He playst Baral t2, as a consequence he dies back from an uncontested Griselbrand.
-1 breach, -1 reunion, -1 temple, -1 borborygmos / +3 pact, +1 boseiju
- Game 2: I mull to 5 and try to combo when he is cantripping at the end of one of my turns. I fail to find anything relevant and die proudly to my own eck.
- Game 3: This time my opponent plays more carefully, always leaving 1-2 mana up. It doesn't matter because I have pact of negation backup and all he has is a remand, so I win the round and the FNM. 4-0
Overall I think I got lucky and had lots of good matchups. The meta was very favourable, with 0 shadow deks around. The worst matchups were jund, junk, a mill deck and probably a guy playing merfolk. I only faced one of them, while also avoiding other great matchups in scapeshift and tron. I felt my maindeck was good, and probalby would make a couple of changes in my sb, especially getting rid of shatterstorm for something like Shattering spree.
What matchups do you want it for? Is it better than finks? Just asking
Thanks in advance!
Thanks!
It's really nice to see this thread going so active and the deck getting recognition. Keep all the good work!
By taking a quick look at your pool, it seems white is in a really good shape, and you have nice removal in black, while having some good creatures.
I really like the look of your GB deck, but it is always a shame not playing always watchingas, in my experience, wins game on its own. Also, in a delirium deck, topplegeistis just gross, but the cost of splashing white may well not be worth it. If you see yourself having problem turning delirium on, add a wicker witch, they are awesome for that goal.
I am also currently in a sealed league and looking for advice, here is my post: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/limited-sealed-draft/sealed-pool-draftcap-discussion/689710-sealed-weekly-league-guiding-needed