I've been building from a slightly different angle so I figured i'd toss it into the mix. My only real playing with it so far since i put it in sleeves friday was a casual 2 rounds friday night and 2 rounds again on saturday.
Friday I played a beginner that was wielding a red/black "pinger" deck that had a bunch of guys with "tap to do 1 damage to target creature or player". So that one doesn't likely count too much. Round 2 I played against that niv-magus/kiln fiend combo deck that is trying to exist and won 2-0. Saturday, I got annihilated by affinity as it had yet to show up at our store and I've been preparing less and less for it. So he caught me with my pants down so to speak. Inkmoth and signal pest got me game 1 and cranial plating got me game 2. I literally had nothing in my side against him this week. Round 2 I got Zoo 2-0. Round 1 baneslayer did work. Round 2 i saw none of my sideboard but elspeth, finks, and lingering got it done.
This is what I'm playing at the moment. I'm sad Knight of the reliquary doesn't fit so well with deathrite but also itching to try doran with spellskites and skinshifters (8/8 anyone?):
Thanks for the walk-through Dudemichael. I'm waiting currently as my cards trickle in through the mail however just looking at the land count and how many things i'd like to be doing early I can definitely get the mana-hungry vibe. Are you running BUG or jundvine out of curiosity? I was a bit surprised to see no graveyard protection in the sideboard so I am assuming you might be running jundvine, which seemed to be a bit more capable of ignoring the yard and just bashing, riding the "hasteys" in the deck.
@ CarRamrod: Also thanks for the early turn walkthrough And congrats on the 3-0! Can;t wait to hear about it and your tactics!
What do you tend to opt for the first few turns? Spend all mana on dredging and pitching cards? Or make sure to use loam and get lands on the field? Also, is Raven's not as good as it sounds on paper then haha? Keeping the opponent cardless "sounds" like an awesome interaction. I'm assuming it doesn't play out like that and/or spending mana on it is not the ideal plan? How much mana are you actually working with in the first few turns and even the game for that matter? I'd expect relatively little given the land counts? (Can't wait for cards to arrive...)
I appreciate the list post Dr. Duck. Looks cool. I feel like i'm leaning a bit more towards the all-in flavor simply due to the number of shenanigans that can ensue.
Zx_xZ, Can't wait to see the list and your results! I was bugging Lantern last night about it haha. Mail should arrive by the time your cleaning up in the tournament
To anyone, some typical strategies or better yet, changes in strategy based on hate or match-ups would be most welcome if anyone has stories to share. Specifically, do you just race combo? If your yard is just not going to be a valid tool game 2 and 3, do you just not bother dredging and just go for normal attack (but is that possible with the low mana)? As well as, I saw a lot of talk at some point about leyline of sanctity, How does that get cast, do you just mull until you have it? Essentially, how do your first few turns change depending on matchups?
I just got done reading through the entirety of this thread. I've been looking for a home for my vengevines (arguably favorite card) for a while and am fairly convinced that this will be the most exciting use for the leafy monster. I appreciate all the work that went into the primer section as it is proving to be a great jumping off point. I've had or ordered pretty much anything that was discussed through the development here so I have access to all the options.
I've been trying to follow along with all of the swapping of cards and styles, as well as the 3,4 (and even 5? ) color options but as the lists on the front page haven't been updated in a while I've sort of lost touch with what's current. I'd love to know what the current evolution/iteration of the BUg, 4C, and jundvine variants are looking like with all the testing having found some baselines.
I feel Garruk has done quite a bit against aggro tbh. The fight ability has removed a bloodline keeper more than once and the wolf can consistently get in the way of other things until they can be handled.
Regardless, the loss of red, and the swords---I'm having a hard time imagining it performing better. I've forked "something" in nearly every game i've had chandra out. Against aggro, double doomblade works great. Against control or solar flare, double Life's Finale removes every threat in the deck considering the low bomb count. And a doubled tezz's gambit--drawing 4 cards with her loyalty remaining the same seems good anytime. I haven't had the chance to play with red sun zenith yet, as it was recommended by a player 2 weeks back, but i can't see a forked blaze being bad either whether its split between a critter and a player...or all to a player's face.
I love the thought of having o-ring..since it is a catch-all. However adding more creatures, such as blade splicer, while removing the swords seems counter-intuitive? Playing birds, followed by a quick sword, to turn around and equip the bird turn 3 is one of the best plays we've been able to make against control and wolf run.
Losing red, also means losing olivia which i don't think i can support. Everyone still favors doom blade which she walks around, she serves as minor removal, and gets big so quickly. I found myself using her to poke my thrun just to get counters at times when the opponent's board is clear. Also, she serves as insurance against inkmoths at instant speed. Finally, her take control of ability is surprisingly relevant. I've snagged sun titans against solar flare, and grimgrin against saturday-night-slime.
Replacing Sorin however does sound quite reasonable. He turned a bad game against vampires around once for me...was at 3 life, the opponent at 20...ended up swinging that game around and winning with a forked doom blade and Sorin's drain + life gain. However, I often found myself with him in hand against control wishing it was something more relevant.
I've been building from a slightly different angle so I figured i'd toss it into the mix. My only real playing with it so far since i put it in sleeves friday was a casual 2 rounds friday night and 2 rounds again on saturday.
Friday I played a beginner that was wielding a red/black "pinger" deck that had a bunch of guys with "tap to do 1 damage to target creature or player". So that one doesn't likely count too much. Round 2 I played against that niv-magus/kiln fiend combo deck that is trying to exist and won 2-0. Saturday, I got annihilated by affinity as it had yet to show up at our store and I've been preparing less and less for it. So he caught me with my pants down so to speak. Inkmoth and signal pest got me game 1 and cranial plating got me game 2. I literally had nothing in my side against him this week. Round 2 I got Zoo 2-0. Round 1 baneslayer did work. Round 2 i saw none of my sideboard but elspeth, finks, and lingering got it done.
This is what I'm playing at the moment. I'm sad Knight of the reliquary doesn't fit so well with deathrite but also itching to try doran with spellskites and skinshifters (8/8 anyone?):
4 x inquisition of kozilek
1 x thoughtseize
3 x path to exile
4 x deathrite shaman
4 x putrid leech
4 x lotus cobra
2 x loxodon smiter
3 x lingering souls
3 x kitchen finks
3 x liliana of the veil
2 x elspeth, knight-errant
1 x hero of bladehold
2 x baneslayer angel
4 x verdant catacombs
4 x marsh flats
1 x misty rainforest
2 x overgrown tomb
2 x temple garden
1 x godless shrine
2 x vault of the archangel
1 x woodland cemetery
1 x isolated chapel
1 x forest
2 x swamp
2 x plains
1 x treetop village
SB:
4 x kor firewalker
2 x ratchet bomb
2 x phyrexian crusader
3 x thalia, guardian of thraben
2 x torpor orb
1 x lingering souls
1 x plains
@ CarRamrod: Also thanks for the early turn walkthrough
Zx_xZ, Can't wait to see the list and your results! I was bugging Lantern last night about it haha. Mail should arrive by the time your cleaning up in the tournament
To anyone, some typical strategies or better yet, changes in strategy based on hate or match-ups would be most welcome if anyone has stories to share. Specifically, do you just race combo? If your yard is just not going to be a valid tool game 2 and 3, do you just not bother dredging and just go for normal attack (but is that possible with the low mana)? As well as, I saw a lot of talk at some point about leyline of sanctity, How does that get cast, do you just mull until you have it?
I just got done reading through the entirety of this thread. I've been looking for a home for my vengevines (arguably favorite card) for a while and am fairly convinced that this will be the most exciting use for the leafy monster. I appreciate all the work that went into the primer section as it is proving to be a great jumping off point. I've had or ordered pretty much anything that was discussed through the development here so I have access to all the options.
I've been trying to follow along with all of the swapping of cards and styles, as well as the 3,4 (and even 5? ) color options but as the lists on the front page haven't been updated in a while I've sort of lost touch with what's current. I'd love to know what the current evolution/iteration of the BUg, 4C, and jundvine variants are looking like with all the testing having found some baselines.
Regardless, the loss of red, and the swords---I'm having a hard time imagining it performing better. I've forked "something" in nearly every game i've had chandra out. Against aggro, double doomblade works great. Against control or solar flare, double Life's Finale removes every threat in the deck considering the low bomb count. And a doubled tezz's gambit--drawing 4 cards with her loyalty remaining the same seems good anytime. I haven't had the chance to play with red sun zenith yet, as it was recommended by a player 2 weeks back, but i can't see a forked blaze being bad either whether its split between a critter and a player...or all to a player's face.
I love the thought of having o-ring..since it is a catch-all. However adding more creatures, such as blade splicer, while removing the swords seems counter-intuitive? Playing birds, followed by a quick sword, to turn around and equip the bird turn 3 is one of the best plays we've been able to make against control and wolf run.
Losing red, also means losing olivia which i don't think i can support. Everyone still favors doom blade which she walks around, she serves as minor removal, and gets big so quickly. I found myself using her to poke my thrun just to get counters at times when the opponent's board is clear. Also, she serves as insurance against inkmoths at instant speed. Finally, her take control of ability is surprisingly relevant. I've snagged sun titans against solar flare, and grimgrin against saturday-night-slime.
Replacing Sorin however does sound quite reasonable. He turned a bad game against vampires around once for me...was at 3 life, the opponent at 20...ended up swinging that game around and winning with a forked doom blade and Sorin's drain + life gain. However, I often found myself with him in hand against control wishing it was something more relevant.