I went ahead and took that states list out for a spin in a mtgo daily this evening. I can see some explosive lines of play on paper but it didn't quite carry over into practice for me. The 18 land count was much to low for my personal liking. I mull'd almost every game going down to a useless 4 card hand once and multiple 5 card hands. At that point I just never had enough to actually swarm the board - and some of my 5 card keeps had a basic land only or no land (and a simian). I definitely struggled with lands most games. That said,
Round 1 0-2 loss against Wilted abzan.
G1 I bolted both of his early manadorks to keep the way clear for my burning tree and visionary while trying to keep him off of rhino and liege mana. I was able to play some other shamans - ire shaman and wolf-skull however That didn't play out and liege > lingering souls > smiter > rhino was a thing that I couldn't get past despite my large board. I was stuck at 2 lands the whole game ( the 2 in my opening hand) and never got to cast the two rage forgers in hand. He was super low on life, even with the rhino and a rage forger would have gotten it for me - but alas the lands.
G2 He played out a lot more like a normal abzan deck. I had to mulligan to 6 keeping burning trees and 2 drops which wasn't bad. That said, turn 1 thoughtseize made my turn 2 a little less stunning. Then path to exile on my wolf-skull, abrupt decay on my shared animosity, and double rhino put me in my place.
Round 2 2-1 win against RW Norin
G1 I mulled to 4 and was left with 3 lands and a spirit guide. I just played lands for a bit (6 to be exact) to see what he was doing since I hadn't played against it before.
G2 I had a strong start and an early reclamation sage on his impact tremors. Rage forger triggers did work.
G3 I had a similar start getting burning tree, wolf skull visionary, and reclamation sage onto the board killing his impact tremors again. then he surprised me with pyroclasm which I wasn't expecting given all of his own small creatures. He landed a spirit bonds and began churning out tokens while I tried to rebuild. He had enough blockers (2-3 a turn) to keep my handful of guys from getting through for normal damage but double rage forger was able to do enough direct damage to finish him off before his tokens could get me. Was a grindy/close one. The reach was the only way through!
Round 3 1-2 loss to RG(W) Zoo
G1 Made me want to throw up hah. Turn 1 goblin guide. Turn 2 burning tree > burning tree > burning tree > goblin guide. I lost that one lol.
G2 Turn 1 simian spirit guide > burning tree > experiment one > goblin guide. He had a fast start obviously but me being on the play and having a decent start of my own allowed me to trade with his guys, bolt the experiment and start rebuilding with a wolf skull shaman. I managed to get there as he ran out of gas.
G3 He got rolling with an experiment one > flinthoof boar. I had to mull to 5 and din't have any removal. None of my guys were big enough to profitably trade and rage forger ate a helix. The boar was eventually joined by a ghor clan and I just didn't have much game with so few resources to start the game.
Round 4 0-2 loss to Bogles
G1 I don't know what this specific list can even try to do against bogles short of race - which isn't the best plan considering the lifelink available to bogles. Game 1 was over super quick with his guys getting large, gaining first strike, and trample making my chump blockers irrelevant.
G2 I had to mulligan again and still ended up struggling to get to 3 lands. I was almost dead when I got to choose between casting rage forger to buff my guys big enough to actually block his favorably or casting blood moon to stop him from casting things while dropping to 4 life. I opted the rage forger route - however as he cast 3 more enchantments (only had 1 in hand, but drew consecutively off of spirit dancer) I clearly chose wrong. I should have played the moon, eaten the damage and then played rage forger. Oops :/
I definitely had fun with it but as I said before I stalled at 1 or 2 land a lot. I also spent most of my games mull'ing my cards away often times tossing a bad 7 card hand, to get a 6 card hand with no lands, to get a 5 card hand with one land. I'll definitely be trying to play a bit different of a list in the future!
I also very much appreciate the list post semioldguy! I'm pumped you got that leafy monster into some spotlight. I'm probably going to look into sleeving up your list and seeing if it fits me
That said, how much grave hate did you encounter throughout your matches? Crypt? grafdiggers? rest in peace? If you faced some of that game 2 and 3, how did you get through it...how did you play differently?
thanks again for the post and I'm looking forward to some advice
I just got done reading through the entirety of this thread. I've been looking for a home for my vengevines (arguably favorite card) for a while and am fairly convinced that this will be the most exciting use for the leafy monster. I appreciate all the work that went into the primer section as it is proving to be a great jumping off point. I've had or ordered pretty much anything that was discussed through the development here so I have access to all the options.
I've been trying to follow along with all of the swapping of cards and styles, as well as the 3,4 (and even 5? ) color options but as the lists on the front page haven't been updated in a while I've sort of lost touch with what's current. I'd love to know what the current evolution/iteration of the BUg, 4C, and jundvine variants are looking like with all the testing having found some baselines.
1
Round 1 0-2 loss against Wilted abzan.
G1 I bolted both of his early manadorks to keep the way clear for my burning tree and visionary while trying to keep him off of rhino and liege mana. I was able to play some other shamans - ire shaman and wolf-skull however That didn't play out and liege > lingering souls > smiter > rhino was a thing that I couldn't get past despite my large board. I was stuck at 2 lands the whole game ( the 2 in my opening hand) and never got to cast the two rage forgers in hand. He was super low on life, even with the rhino and a rage forger would have gotten it for me - but alas the lands.
G2 He played out a lot more like a normal abzan deck. I had to mulligan to 6 keeping burning trees and 2 drops which wasn't bad. That said, turn 1 thoughtseize made my turn 2 a little less stunning. Then path to exile on my wolf-skull, abrupt decay on my shared animosity, and double rhino put me in my place.
Round 2 2-1 win against RW Norin
G1 I mulled to 4 and was left with 3 lands and a spirit guide. I just played lands for a bit (6 to be exact) to see what he was doing since I hadn't played against it before.
G2 I had a strong start and an early reclamation sage on his impact tremors. Rage forger triggers did work.
G3 I had a similar start getting burning tree, wolf skull visionary, and reclamation sage onto the board killing his impact tremors again. then he surprised me with pyroclasm which I wasn't expecting given all of his own small creatures. He landed a spirit bonds and began churning out tokens while I tried to rebuild. He had enough blockers (2-3 a turn) to keep my handful of guys from getting through for normal damage but double rage forger was able to do enough direct damage to finish him off before his tokens could get me. Was a grindy/close one. The reach was the only way through!
Round 3 1-2 loss to RG(W) Zoo
G1 Made me want to throw up hah. Turn 1 goblin guide. Turn 2 burning tree > burning tree > burning tree > goblin guide. I lost that one lol.
G2 Turn 1 simian spirit guide > burning tree > experiment one > goblin guide. He had a fast start obviously but me being on the play and having a decent start of my own allowed me to trade with his guys, bolt the experiment and start rebuilding with a wolf skull shaman. I managed to get there as he ran out of gas.
G3 He got rolling with an experiment one > flinthoof boar. I had to mull to 5 and din't have any removal. None of my guys were big enough to profitably trade and rage forger ate a helix. The boar was eventually joined by a ghor clan and I just didn't have much game with so few resources to start the game.
Round 4 0-2 loss to Bogles
G1 I don't know what this specific list can even try to do against bogles short of race - which isn't the best plan considering the lifelink available to bogles. Game 1 was over super quick with his guys getting large, gaining first strike, and trample making my chump blockers irrelevant.
G2 I had to mulligan again and still ended up struggling to get to 3 lands. I was almost dead when I got to choose between casting rage forger to buff my guys big enough to actually block his favorably or casting blood moon to stop him from casting things while dropping to 4 life. I opted the rage forger route - however as he cast 3 more enchantments (only had 1 in hand, but drew consecutively off of spirit dancer) I clearly chose wrong. I should have played the moon, eaten the damage and then played rage forger. Oops :/
I definitely had fun with it but as I said before I stalled at 1 or 2 land a lot. I also spent most of my games mull'ing my cards away often times tossing a bad 7 card hand, to get a 6 card hand with no lands, to get a 5 card hand with one land. I'll definitely be trying to play a bit different of a list in the future!
1
That said, how much grave hate did you encounter throughout your matches? Crypt? grafdiggers? rest in peace? If you faced some of that game 2 and 3, how did you get through it...how did you play differently?
thanks again for the post and I'm looking forward to some advice
1
I just got done reading through the entirety of this thread. I've been looking for a home for my vengevines (arguably favorite card) for a while and am fairly convinced that this will be the most exciting use for the leafy monster. I appreciate all the work that went into the primer section as it is proving to be a great jumping off point. I've had or ordered pretty much anything that was discussed through the development here so I have access to all the options.
I've been trying to follow along with all of the swapping of cards and styles, as well as the 3,4 (and even 5? ) color options but as the lists on the front page haven't been updated in a while I've sort of lost touch with what's current. I'd love to know what the current evolution/iteration of the BUg, 4C, and jundvine variants are looking like with all the testing having found some baselines.