Lynching AG gives us more time to sort out Hunt/Cyan because I'm pretty sure there is scum between them. Still leaning Hunt, but that was enough to not eat the noose today.
Hunt your read on me doesn't seem like I'm in a null pile. I also don't see your Killjoy read at all can you explain that one a bit more to me? Apart from that your worldview makes sense to me, I disagree on Cyan but it seems reasonable in a world where you're town. That and the early claim to avoid last second chaos is something I can empathize with.
Bur my phone is acting up and can't link it but I laid out a case in 445. The main point is the inconsistency of his reads throughout to his town three town and scum he gives Shadow.
I'm willing to vote AG at this deadline, but will need more from Hunt claim like he did isn't enough right now given his behavior.
@Shadow my logic read is based on knowing his meta and I'd prefer not to get into it because it is a bit angleshooty and still not enough to give me full confidence. Want more from Qui but I'm coming from a position of town lean.
As for those 4 I so subscribe to the theory that there will usually be scum at the bottom of the post count and those 4 even with my town leans are all lurking near the bottom and need clarification.
@Shadow Your behavioral town list tracks pretty well with what I'm feeling too I currently have TRJST as my third but I agree on the first two. So we disagree there, but I feel pretty good about him. I really liked his entrance so I may be stuck on that, but for now I'm happy. I'm much less confident in Cantrip but I would have him very close to my town lean group of logic/Qui, GJ, and Cyan (who is creeping up my town list). It probably would be cantrip, but much much lower confidence than Rodemy or Gruffin. None of this seems outside his scum range to me.
As for how I'd proceed if Hunt filpped scum I would definitely immediately start pushing AG. With a Hunt town flip I'd have to reevaluate a lot. I'd take a close look at Rhand to make sure my town feelings about him aren't just stemming from him putting in effort. Everything he's saying is reasonable and I'm pretty sure it's town motivated just would do an ISO to make sure in the case of Huntz flipping town. Mostly I'd want to get more content from Fulcrum, Qui, GJ, and Bur and see if I can find something there. I expect there is at least 1 scum in those 4. Even though I currently have 2 at a town lean, I just don't have enough to feel comfortable with any of them.
@Killjoy You response to me about rereading the slot you replace into makes no sense. Like my statement is you get to read someone you know is conf!town and get their thoughts on the game and you respond with read other games? I'm not seeing why that is useful in this context. My point is you get confirmed town's insight on this game, that is worth something. Maybe I'm really underestimating how much effort it takes to replace into a game as I haven't done it yet. Just strikes me as a really weird thing to ignore.
@Huntzilla Why did you claim at L-4? Especially as a Bulletproof? Seems like it reduces your utility quite a bit, without giving us any real hope that you can be resolved through mechanics at any stage.
@Bur consider is dropped to not be brought up again. My post was bring typed while yours was posted and I didn't see it to later. Heading out for now but I have responses to Shadows' post first and foremost being the part where I said I went through his Iso and felt a lot better about him after calling him scum by association. That was extending an olive branch.
@Rhand last reply for a while to let others chime in, but yeah I think clearing a slot completely is worth it. OoG I'm sure it was miserable for Bur (@bur still be my friend) but in game once the lynch was no longer imminent I had hoped he would return to form once my plan was revealed and the wagon was halted. And we would be left with a very near confirmed town in the game which is always valuable.
Re Bur: I do have scum meta. He white knighted someone who would have been an easy mislynch D1 and then replaced out. During that game he appeared more engaged and had his finger on the pulse of the game which he decidedly didn't as town in his two most recent town games I've seen.
As for my inconsistent push I can't come out and say I'm tunneling him to see if he crumbles like he did in Disinheritance and Harhui mafias. Kind of defeats the purpose. So yeah my meta read moved around slightly but consistently with the idea he lurks hard core as town and doesn't have a good feel for the game and plays differently and with better self defense as scum.
On GJ I was drawing attention to my lean in detail because I thought there was enough there to read him. With my limited knowledge of GJ I only felt comfortable giving him a lean for the loose shooting from the hip vibes I got from him. Someone more familiar might have been able to do something stronger with that info.
Hunt barning my Bur case alone doesn't make him scum. It doesn't make it him trying to pocket me. That was the most tenuous part of my read, but it came from that catch up/reread post being focused heavily on that read. It felt like a pocket attempt so I called it that. It might not have been that doesn't make his progression super towny either. I felt much more strongly about the inconsistencies in his top 3 list but wanted to include everything.
As for the lhf thing I felt it was scummy, but not scummy enough to outweigh the rest of your posts. Or GJs (which is why it was waffly he'd been scummy and towny just more towny) but worth mentioning. If you're scum it's good to have it to refer back to later and if you're town it might snap you out of a trap of settling for an easy lynch rather than a good lynch. Seen too many of those.
Ehh actually I see what you are saying with the hunt/AG to me/apo thing.
It's a bit different in scope, but the point of both is to get the quoted to expand their read by challenging the premise. I just think mine isn't scummy in context, while Huntz has no context.
@Rhand I think my post in reply to your initial post better explains what I was doing with Bur. The key was the way he collapses under pressure as town. I wanted to see if I could force that reaction.
Wrt to my GJ post I actually came out of it with a town read. A bit waffly, but a town read that has endured in the interim. And that's in the wall, I say it seems like it comes from town but ask for others (implying those familiar with GJ) to double check my read.
Last thing Hunt butting in on RSJTs post wasn't a pure defense it also discredits SJT without engaging with the rest of the post. I would argue my apocado defense wasn't only defending him but drawing comparisons to others with similar behavior.
@Rhand Bur lurks as town as well, but generally crumples really badly when he gets pushed. I've seen it happen in disinheritance here and in an offsite game. It's why I was tunneling him and trying to get him lynched earlier is I wanted to see his response. As town he posts under pressure but is resigned to his fate and known to self vote. I wanted to force his hand and see if I could get him to play to meta without revealing my intentions. If he got resigned to getting lynched I'd reveal this part of my meta read and try and stop the wagon. As scum I haven't seen him pushed hard because he has replaced out after early activity followed by lurking as scum in the games I have seen.
Anyways can't wait to see how you're incorrectly reading me as scum this time.
I think you are right that because of timing that pile doesn't work silver. But I'm not a judge.
Once x spells turned out to be slightly tricky due to casting them for 0 I tried to make a Yawgmoth's Will pile that would work but I couldn't make that work either. I can't figure anything to add to the 3 card base of Will, Pull from Eternity, and Blue Sun's Zenith that gets it done. Graveyard recursion spell on it's own continues to be the thorn in my side and I can't figure out any two cards that get's around it... Tried some funky mirror piles as well, but Mirror + Will vs the usual suspects is the same dead end I keep running into.
None of this is convincing me Hunt isn't scum. Feels more like we caught the team and he's being forced to bus his buddy to survive.
@Cyan I think I explained my Bur case multiple times. May never have directed it at you though.
@Shadow All of your answers make sense just want a follow up on town reads. You have Gruffin and Mind (pending tonight) as your top town reads. Mindreaver obviously isn't a behavioural one given your vote has been on him for large swaths of today. So by behaviour who are your top 3? Gruffin and who else? Skimming your Iso didn't paint a picture of someone with too many town reads. I saw resisting town reads on Kit and giving a vague you'd move a few people around from KJ's list but you overall like it. I know your scum reads are shot to hell right now, but a top 3 behavioural town reads would help me figure out where you're coming from.
@Killjoy you mean as town you wouldn't want to read the opinions of another confirmed town set of eyes? I love to reread townies who flip to see where their mind was at, as a replacement you get to do that without a flip. Seems like throwing away useful information not to reread as both alignments
Unvote
Vote: AtheistGod
I'm willing to vote AG at this deadline, but will need more from Hunt claim like he did isn't enough right now given his behavior.
As for those 4 I so subscribe to the theory that there will usually be scum at the bottom of the post count and those 4 even with my town leans are all lurking near the bottom and need clarification.
As for how I'd proceed if Hunt filpped scum I would definitely immediately start pushing AG. With a Hunt town flip I'd have to reevaluate a lot. I'd take a close look at Rhand to make sure my town feelings about him aren't just stemming from him putting in effort. Everything he's saying is reasonable and I'm pretty sure it's town motivated just would do an ISO to make sure in the case of Huntz flipping town. Mostly I'd want to get more content from Fulcrum, Qui, GJ, and Bur and see if I can find something there. I expect there is at least 1 scum in those 4. Even though I currently have 2 at a town lean, I just don't have enough to feel comfortable with any of them.
@Killjoy You response to me about rereading the slot you replace into makes no sense. Like my statement is you get to read someone you know is conf!town and get their thoughts on the game and you respond with read other games? I'm not seeing why that is useful in this context. My point is you get confirmed town's insight on this game, that is worth something. Maybe I'm really underestimating how much effort it takes to replace into a game as I haven't done it yet. Just strikes me as a really weird thing to ignore.
@Huntzilla Why did you claim at L-4? Especially as a Bulletproof? Seems like it reduces your utility quite a bit, without giving us any real hope that you can be resolved through mechanics at any stage.
Re Bur: I do have scum meta. He white knighted someone who would have been an easy mislynch D1 and then replaced out. During that game he appeared more engaged and had his finger on the pulse of the game which he decidedly didn't as town in his two most recent town games I've seen.
As for my inconsistent push I can't come out and say I'm tunneling him to see if he crumbles like he did in Disinheritance and Harhui mafias. Kind of defeats the purpose. So yeah my meta read moved around slightly but consistently with the idea he lurks hard core as town and doesn't have a good feel for the game and plays differently and with better self defense as scum.
On GJ I was drawing attention to my lean in detail because I thought there was enough there to read him. With my limited knowledge of GJ I only felt comfortable giving him a lean for the loose shooting from the hip vibes I got from him. Someone more familiar might have been able to do something stronger with that info.
Hunt barning my Bur case alone doesn't make him scum. It doesn't make it him trying to pocket me. That was the most tenuous part of my read, but it came from that catch up/reread post being focused heavily on that read. It felt like a pocket attempt so I called it that. It might not have been that doesn't make his progression super towny either. I felt much more strongly about the inconsistencies in his top 3 list but wanted to include everything.
As for the lhf thing I felt it was scummy, but not scummy enough to outweigh the rest of your posts. Or GJs (which is why it was waffly he'd been scummy and towny just more towny) but worth mentioning. If you're scum it's good to have it to refer back to later and if you're town it might snap you out of a trap of settling for an easy lynch rather than a good lynch. Seen too many of those.
It's a bit different in scope, but the point of both is to get the quoted to expand their read by challenging the premise. I just think mine isn't scummy in context, while Huntz has no context.
Wrt to my GJ post I actually came out of it with a town read. A bit waffly, but a town read that has endured in the interim. And that's in the wall, I say it seems like it comes from town but ask for others (implying those familiar with GJ) to double check my read.
Last thing Hunt butting in on RSJTs post wasn't a pure defense it also discredits SJT without engaging with the rest of the post. I would argue my apocado defense wasn't only defending him but drawing comparisons to others with similar behavior.
Anyways can't wait to see how you're incorrectly reading me as scum this time.
Once x spells turned out to be slightly tricky due to casting them for 0 I tried to make a Yawgmoth's Will pile that would work but I couldn't make that work either. I can't figure anything to add to the 3 card base of Will, Pull from Eternity, and Blue Sun's Zenith that gets it done. Graveyard recursion spell on it's own continues to be the thorn in my side and I can't figure out any two cards that get's around it... Tried some funky mirror piles as well, but Mirror + Will vs the usual suspects is the same dead end I keep running into.
@Cyan I think I explained my Bur case multiple times. May never have directed it at you though.
@Shadow All of your answers make sense just want a follow up on town reads. You have Gruffin and Mind (pending tonight) as your top town reads. Mindreaver obviously isn't a behavioural one given your vote has been on him for large swaths of today. So by behaviour who are your top 3? Gruffin and who else? Skimming your Iso didn't paint a picture of someone with too many town reads. I saw resisting town reads on Kit and giving a vague you'd move a few people around from KJ's list but you overall like it. I know your scum reads are shot to hell right now, but a top 3 behavioural town reads would help me figure out where you're coming from.