That seems like really good result, congrats on the finish. I'm a brand new poster here and asked a question at the bottom of the last page of the thread about why I should play this over Esper control and UWR. If the games against eldrazi are the best with this deck I think I'd like to play this one. Would you say this deck is the nest out of the 3 against this meta?
I'm not an expert on the decks, but I too was choosing between a UWR variant and Blue Moon and went Moon. I went with Moon for a couple of reasons.
1) Blood Moon. Main decking this card gets you free wins which is more than pretty much any other control deck in the format can say. It forces Eldrazi and Tron decks to play fair.
2) More stable manabase. Between the (normally) two color base and the need to accommodate for Blood Moon it's pretty unlikely we'll run into any mana issues.
3) Vedalken Shackles is a card. It's not required and isn't run by everyone, but it can be a great meta choice.
The biggest downside to the deck compared to UWR is the lack of white's amazing sideboard options. Stony Silence, Lightning Helix, Eidolon of Rhetoric, Rest in Peace, etc. These are all really powerful, potentially backbreaking cards that UR Moon generally doesn't have access to. That said, people are exploring the idea of a splash in Moon, so you could have your cake and eat it too by trying out Jeskai Moon.
I can't speak to Esper since I never checked it out, but the idea of trying to play a control deck without Bolt in a potentially Aggro-drenched meta makes me itch.
Took a RUG list out to my LGS last night and went 1-2-1.
Kiki-Chord (1-1-1)
Went to time here. Game one took an eternity. I had it locked up from the get go, but he had a turns 1 and 2 Birds to keep casting spells under my turn 3 Blood Moon. So that game went long with him slowly building up a board and me slowly dismantling it until I got a really big Goyf to stick alongside Surrak which I cleared the way for with an EOT Cryptic in tap down mode. He took game 2 with lots of flying beats. Game 3 was mine to win, but I couldn't quite close it out. I had enough burn to get him down to 2, but nothing on board to seal the deal. The Snapcaster Mage in hand could've gotten me there once I cleared out a blocker or two, but that would've taken more time than I had. Plenty of little mistakes here probably cost me the win, I'm still getting used to the deck.
U/R Eldrazi Aggro (1-2)
He mulled to five and I burnt his world to ash before killing him with a stolen Reality Smasher and a Surrak Dragonclaw (who I'm playing as a fun-of, but was actually quite good all night). We both mull a bit game two and he wins despite a turn three Blood Moon. A few turns in, I started drawing air and he started drawing threats. Lots of Drowner of Hopes will definitely get you there. Game three I got rolled. I mulled to an okay six and flooded out. Hard to get much of a feel for this match-up. We both mulled a fair amount and games 1 and 2 were really determined by who drew best off the top.
U/R Storm (2-1)
Game one I counter a Pyromancer Ascension then punt the game away by tapping out turn three to cast a Blood Moon. Idiot! Storm barely cares about the card in the first place and in the second, it left a Mana Leak stranded in my hand while he jammed another Ascension next turn. Storm then did what Storm does when it gets an active Ascension and I was left crying quietly in the corner. Games two and three were interesting. I was pretty worried because I had next to nothing in my board for Storm, but I had enough main deck counters to see me through. I pretty much let him do whatever he wanted, only fighting over Ascensions, Goblin Electromancers (we had a pretty funny battle over these guys in game two involving Vapor Snagging one, Snap-Snagging it again, then letting it resolve next turn and casting Cryptic Command in response to a second Electromancer to counter-bounce), and Past in Flames (My god, Spell Snare is amazing in this match-up). Without those cards, the deck doesn't really go anywhere. Bolt-Snap-Bolt, Clique, and the like got me there eventually while I countered all his fun stuff.
Mono-U Tron* (0-2)
Ugh. This was a beating. This guy's a good player playing a deck I wasn't prepared for. For the first time in forever, I was kinda looking forward to the possibility of playing against Tron, but instead of seeing R/G Tron like I was prepared for, I got this. He had counter magic for days and at all the right times. Game one was a slaughter, I kept an okay hand that wasn't nearly good enough for natural Tron. Game two I made a better showing, casting two Molten Rain and a couple Goyfs, but he kept chugging along until he forced an Ugin down my throat. He had the counter to protect it from Snap-Remand and the mana to pay for my follow-up Mana Leak. He then Slaver-locked me into oblivion. Ow.
* Props to this guy for having his entire deck foiled. It was pretty awesome.
I could've easily beaten Kiki-Chord if I'd played a little tighter and there's a chance I could've beaten Aggro-Drazi as well, but so it goes. Regardless of my record, I had a lot of fun with the deck. I'm going to keep bringing it around and keep making tweaks to find the 75 I like most. Right now, my sideboard feels a little random (I'm getting used to a new LGS) and there are a few slots in the main that I'm interested in. Roast felt really good against Kiki-Chord and Aggro-Drazi (thankfully, I didn't draw it the other two games) and I might look to add a second copy, probably in the board. Surrak Dragonclaw was thrown in there because I love him in EDH and I saw someone on here was running him as a main deck one-of and just could not resist. I figured I'd play one night with him then toss him out for a better finisher, but he was surprisingly good. Every time he hit the board, he made my opponent pause. They had to read him over, consider what the card meant, and then how they were going to deal with it. When he landed, I won. Plus, giving Goyf trample is every bit as sweet as I imagined it would be. Another card I was keeping an eye on was Vapor Snag. I like the card, but I wondered if Simic Charm might be better in the slot, despite the extra mana. The one damage wasn't hugely relevant, but the one mana was. Against Storm in particular, Snag was SO MUCH better than Charm would've been. I won that dual over the Electromancers because my bounce spell only cost one. Snag stays for now.
I'm also really intrigued by the newest U/R lists running around as well and might try my hand at it since I already have most of the pieces (short one Sulfur Falls).
I think one of the biggest problems with the Eldrazi match-up is the idea that there is AN Eldrazi match-up. I hope I don't come off as a douche here, but there isn't AN Eldrazi deck. There isn't even AN Eldrazi deck that spiked the PT. It was two very similar builds, but two builds nonetheless. Colorless Eldrazi Blitz is a VERY different deck from the more midrange B/W Eldrazi Processors deck (which is not the same deck it was even a few weeks ago) which is very different from the more controlling U/B Eldrazi deck.
I'm not calling out this thread in particular, but I see this mistake all over the place. There isn't one single Eldrazi deck running around eating people's happiness, there are a variety of Eldrazi decks and many of them attack in different ways and need to be attacked in different ways.
Sorry if that came off as abrasive, but I'm really enjoying this deck in playtesting and don't wanna see this thread fall prey to a common misunderstanding or miscommunication.
Thanks for all the great tips and information you folks put up.
What do you guys think of running a copy of Chandra, Flamecaller at the top end? I'm waiting for the final pieces of Temur Moon to come in the mail (my god, do I love the cut of its jib) and I see some people running Batterskulls, somebody ran Surrak Dragonclaw--which is the hotness--, and some lists run a 5cmc dragon or two in the top spot. This deck wants to slow everybody down while it beats them to death later on, right? Would Chandra pull that off? Six damage a turn is not an insignificant clock (though the tokens can't play defense which makes her worse against aggro and burn) and in late game stalls she can break things open with a 0 loyalty draw 1, 2, or 3 cards ability. Her "ultimate" isn't particularly good since the decks that get hit by it are probably gonna be disinclined to allow you to drop a six mana planeswalker unless you've been hounding them with Bolts and Leaks and Electrolyzes left, right, and center.
Batterskull is backbreaking against non-Infect aggro decks if you get it on-board. It's also pretty good against grindy decks that lead to stalled boards because it's big on it's own and just enormous when you slap it on a Snapcaster Mage, Vendilion Clique, or Tarmogoyf.
Surrak Dragonclaw is a five mana 6/6 with pseudo-haste who makes Goyfs trample and Cliques uncounterable. If you see lots of Blue decks running around, he's gonna be a troublemaker. Flash also lets you hold up counter mana more easily, particularly Cryptic Command.
Chandra, Flamecaller is versatile. She gives you 6 hasty power over two bodies while going up in loyalty to a difficult to kill 5 right off the bat. Her zero is just straight up "Draw a card" if you're hellbent and can ship away excess lands, Blood Moons, Mana Leaks, and the like to turn bad late game top decks into another chance at gas. She can sweep the board against aggro decks to really stabilize with her minus. She also lets you go a bit wider if you're running her alongside Ma and Pa--though that might be getting greedy.
That she costs six is a pretty hefty downside, I'll admit. In a deck with 22-ish lands, the difference between 5 and 6 is considerable, but her power level seems high and her versatility seems pretty good in a deck that wants to slow the game down.
So, whadya think? Rose-colored glasses or cool new curve-topper?
I read this post back when it came out and that decklist makes me feel dirty in all the right ways. If I ever decide to pull the trigger on selling off my Esper Stoneblade legacy deck (ScapeWish and Trinity Green are so much more fun) I'll probably invest that money into Goyfs and Hierarchs to try that build out. It looks so, so sweet.
On another note... Is anyone else considering switching out the Nature's Claims for Natural States?? I haven't really been seeing Leylines, and/or decks that could run them recently.
It seems like a more important difference for RUG, since you don't want to Claim-Snap-Claim. In this deck, I wouldn't want to be caught without Claims. You can also always blow up your own sutff in a pinch.
Plus, it seems easier for this deck to deal a billion damage than it does for more traditional RUG/BTL versions. Prismatic Omen, Khalni Heart Expedition and Prime Time can pretty easily make up for that four damage in a hurry.
It could also be that Supreme Verdict is harder to cast because people are running Hallowed Fountain for their white splash. So one of their white sources is also a blue source. I'd imagine blue sources aren't terribly difficult to come by for most Scapeshift decks, but that might crop up from time to time in a clunky manabase like this one. I just started goldfishing the deck to see how it feels and it can be easy to mis-fetch. Grab a Hallowed Fountain and count it as a blue source, so when the time comes you forget you're counting one of your two white sources as a blue source. Maybe? It seems like a fairly negligible difference in a deck that wants to be casting Cryptic Command and go into Bring to Light for four, but that could trip people up.
So, I'm planning on bringing TitanShift to my LGS this week (finally got the last pieces in the mail!) and I was wondering what you guys think of Relic of Progenitus? I've played at this store a couple times and it seems like no one plays GrizzlyB combo, there's little to no Goyf action, and only a few Grixis decks running around. Is Relic still worth the main deck slot if the majority of the time it's probably just going to be a two mana cantrip? Or would I be better served plugging in something like Lightning Bolt in the main and keeping the Relics in the side? I've seen some back and forth over the Relic slot. Some people seem to think this deck can just peter out without any card draw and Relic is an essential slot in the main because it gives a touch of card draw while offering some nice splash hate, but some lists seem to be tossing it out in favor of more anti-aggro cards like Bolt.
With all that in mind, what would you folks suggest I do?
It is extremely stock, I haven't fiddled with anything really because I haven't had the chance to play it enough to feel confidant making lots of changes. But if you notice anything else that seems out of place, I'm definitely open to hearing opinions. Thanks in advance for the advice!
If you feel like there's anything missing or there's something you disagree with let me know.
At this stage of the game, it may be nice to have a small section that lists the advantages and disadvantages of this relative to BW and Heartless.
This. The whole Eldrazi deck-mania that seems to be sweeping the internet is still a really new thing. There are a bunch of threads for the various decks, but they all seem riddled with people asking about other versions or for pros and cons and whatnot. Lots of interest, I think it'd be really helpful to have that addressed from one perspective. I love that this deck gets to run so much more LD, but miss the Paths B/W runs, as well as all the wonderful sideboard bombs White brings.
I'd also like to see some talk about cards that look good, but aren't in the list. Cavern of Souls, Nihil Spellbomb, Void Winnower, Thoughtseize, or whatever other things people might be curious about. I assume Thoughtseize got the axe to make room for TKS? It's one of the cards I'm considering cutting in my B/W list to make room, but it feels bad to cut down on turn one discard. Are the added Scrabbling Claws a viable alternative? Is Cavern of Souls not included because all the creatures trigger on cast, not on ETB? Getting countered loses the body, but there's always more meat to throw into the grinder, right? Void Winnower is probably just WAY too janky, but some people seem to be interested in it for Twin, I assume. Warping Wail is getting lots of talk, but only a small portion of that talk is about testing results, seems like a really good card to make mention of if you've had time to put it through its paces.
And just a more personal question: how is All is Dust working? It sucks against Affinity, but it hits everything else you'd want to hit without eating your own stuff, but it does cost seven. This deck ramps and it can ramp really hard, but seven is still a lot. Does it ever feel too clunky? And is it the kind of thing where even if it does feel clunky at times, it's still the best option available?
Either way, I really like what you've got going here already and the list looks all kinds of awesome.
So, I'm looking to get into Legacy from EDH. I've always enjoyed grindy, attrition-based decks that slowly build up resources while stripping away opponents' resources before going over the top with something big and splashy and this deck seems like I really good fit for me. I also have a decent number of the cards for it already, so it helps me stay relatively budget. However, ABU Duals are not happening right now, so I'm thinking about going with an older Mono-Green look.
What are some tips you folks have for a guy looking to dive into Legacy with this lovely, hateful beast? What are match-ups I should be aware of? Anything I should know about piloting the deck? How big of a deal is the black splash? It's to even up some of the deck's rough match-ups, right? How much of the deck changes with the switch from G/b to Mono-Green? Just the lands and black cards? Anything and everything is welcomed and appreciated. =)
It's pretty fun, I'd check out the Trinity Green thread for more ideas. Downside, some of this stuff doesn't really build to another deck. Well, ok Wasteland is a solid format staple and is 1/2 the deck cost, and the Stax pieces could let you play other color Stax decks down the road.
Okay, cool. I'll definitely check that out. Most of the expensive cards are cards I already have or are cards that could translate well, so that's not the biggest concern to me. Thanks =)
This is pretty similar to the Trinity Green deck that some folks were working on awhile ago. I've kept this in my box of legacy decks and get a real kick out of it. It's basically a little less budget due to Wasteland, but I think Ancient Tomb are inexpensive enough to consider.
So, I'm looking to get into Legacy from EDH and this deck hits pretty much all the check boxes for me. It's grindy, it's stompy, it's mean-spirited, and it doesn't cost me my firstborn buying duals alone. I already have a couple Chalice of the Voids and a playset of Wastelands from an early attempt to slowly accumulate a Fish deck (I gave up when I realized having one Force of Will already was NOT going to cushion the blow of needing a playset lol). I have two Ancient Tombs, a Green Sun's Zenith, a Sylvan Library, a Master of the Wild Hunt, and a Thrun, the Last Troll. This deck spoke to me and Bosque's take in particular, since I already have a decent amount of the non-budget cards, seems like a great way to break into the format. I've played with a friend's Reanimator deck, I've proxied up a Fish deck, and I've played a couple games against a limited field of decks, but I'm still really new to all this.
In EDH, I love playing grindy, value-based attrition decks that win by slowly building resources and slowly cutting opponents' off before going over the top with something big and splashy. This seems like a pretty good parallel to that type of deck, it looks powerful, and it looks really fun. Is there anything I should know before getting started?
A few of those guys aren't ETB creatures, but they're cheap and powerful enough to be worthwhile. A couple are in the 4 CMC range, but they're powerful so I figured I'd include them anyway. Very few of these cards are stretches to fit the theme, most of them are just really good.
EDIT: Hm. Posting this list has rekindled my interest in building Meren myself. Crap.
Yeah, I really dug your list. I'd completely written off Dragonlord Kolaghan until I saw your list. He's a great fit for a deck like this that wants to be able to attack for the win off of Dragonstorm.
Thanks for all the suggestions! I'm really intrigued by the Jund idea. I never really thought much about removing blue, but that might be a good idea. I wanna run a slower win than that one seems to and I think I wanna win via combat. Both of those oughta keep this from upsetting my playgroup too terribly much. Plus, I much prefer "Some Assembly Required" combos to things like Mike and Trike. Just more amusing to watch them come together (or fall apart) that way.
Since I'm not much of a combo guy myself, I was wondering what you guys think I should do to tone things down a bit. I don't wanna build a terrible deck, just one that doesn't look to win as quickly.
I'm not an expert on the decks, but I too was choosing between a UWR variant and Blue Moon and went Moon. I went with Moon for a couple of reasons.
1) Blood Moon. Main decking this card gets you free wins which is more than pretty much any other control deck in the format can say. It forces Eldrazi and Tron decks to play fair.
2) More stable manabase. Between the (normally) two color base and the need to accommodate for Blood Moon it's pretty unlikely we'll run into any mana issues.
3) Vedalken Shackles is a card. It's not required and isn't run by everyone, but it can be a great meta choice.
The biggest downside to the deck compared to UWR is the lack of white's amazing sideboard options. Stony Silence, Lightning Helix, Eidolon of Rhetoric, Rest in Peace, etc. These are all really powerful, potentially backbreaking cards that UR Moon generally doesn't have access to. That said, people are exploring the idea of a splash in Moon, so you could have your cake and eat it too by trying out Jeskai Moon.
I can't speak to Esper since I never checked it out, but the idea of trying to play a control deck without Bolt in a potentially Aggro-drenched meta makes me itch.
Kiki-Chord (1-1-1)
Went to time here. Game one took an eternity. I had it locked up from the get go, but he had a turns 1 and 2 Birds to keep casting spells under my turn 3 Blood Moon. So that game went long with him slowly building up a board and me slowly dismantling it until I got a really big Goyf to stick alongside Surrak which I cleared the way for with an EOT Cryptic in tap down mode. He took game 2 with lots of flying beats. Game 3 was mine to win, but I couldn't quite close it out. I had enough burn to get him down to 2, but nothing on board to seal the deal. The Snapcaster Mage in hand could've gotten me there once I cleared out a blocker or two, but that would've taken more time than I had. Plenty of little mistakes here probably cost me the win, I'm still getting used to the deck.
U/R Eldrazi Aggro (1-2)
He mulled to five and I burnt his world to ash before killing him with a stolen Reality Smasher and a Surrak Dragonclaw (who I'm playing as a fun-of, but was actually quite good all night). We both mull a bit game two and he wins despite a turn three Blood Moon. A few turns in, I started drawing air and he started drawing threats. Lots of Drowner of Hopes will definitely get you there. Game three I got rolled. I mulled to an okay six and flooded out. Hard to get much of a feel for this match-up. We both mulled a fair amount and games 1 and 2 were really determined by who drew best off the top.
U/R Storm (2-1)
Game one I counter a Pyromancer Ascension then punt the game away by tapping out turn three to cast a Blood Moon. Idiot! Storm barely cares about the card in the first place and in the second, it left a Mana Leak stranded in my hand while he jammed another Ascension next turn. Storm then did what Storm does when it gets an active Ascension and I was left crying quietly in the corner. Games two and three were interesting. I was pretty worried because I had next to nothing in my board for Storm, but I had enough main deck counters to see me through. I pretty much let him do whatever he wanted, only fighting over Ascensions, Goblin Electromancers (we had a pretty funny battle over these guys in game two involving Vapor Snagging one, Snap-Snagging it again, then letting it resolve next turn and casting Cryptic Command in response to a second Electromancer to counter-bounce), and Past in Flames (My god, Spell Snare is amazing in this match-up). Without those cards, the deck doesn't really go anywhere. Bolt-Snap-Bolt, Clique, and the like got me there eventually while I countered all his fun stuff.
Mono-U Tron* (0-2)
Ugh. This was a beating. This guy's a good player playing a deck I wasn't prepared for. For the first time in forever, I was kinda looking forward to the possibility of playing against Tron, but instead of seeing R/G Tron like I was prepared for, I got this. He had counter magic for days and at all the right times. Game one was a slaughter, I kept an okay hand that wasn't nearly good enough for natural Tron. Game two I made a better showing, casting two Molten Rain and a couple Goyfs, but he kept chugging along until he forced an Ugin down my throat. He had the counter to protect it from Snap-Remand and the mana to pay for my follow-up Mana Leak. He then Slaver-locked me into oblivion. Ow.
* Props to this guy for having his entire deck foiled. It was pretty awesome.
I could've easily beaten Kiki-Chord if I'd played a little tighter and there's a chance I could've beaten Aggro-Drazi as well, but so it goes. Regardless of my record, I had a lot of fun with the deck. I'm going to keep bringing it around and keep making tweaks to find the 75 I like most. Right now, my sideboard feels a little random (I'm getting used to a new LGS) and there are a few slots in the main that I'm interested in. Roast felt really good against Kiki-Chord and Aggro-Drazi (thankfully, I didn't draw it the other two games) and I might look to add a second copy, probably in the board. Surrak Dragonclaw was thrown in there because I love him in EDH and I saw someone on here was running him as a main deck one-of and just could not resist. I figured I'd play one night with him then toss him out for a better finisher, but he was surprisingly good. Every time he hit the board, he made my opponent pause. They had to read him over, consider what the card meant, and then how they were going to deal with it. When he landed, I won. Plus, giving Goyf trample is every bit as sweet as I imagined it would be. Another card I was keeping an eye on was Vapor Snag. I like the card, but I wondered if Simic Charm might be better in the slot, despite the extra mana. The one damage wasn't hugely relevant, but the one mana was. Against Storm in particular, Snag was SO MUCH better than Charm would've been. I won that dual over the Electromancers because my bounce spell only cost one. Snag stays for now.
I'm also really intrigued by the newest U/R lists running around as well and might try my hand at it since I already have most of the pieces (short one Sulfur Falls).
I'm not calling out this thread in particular, but I see this mistake all over the place. There isn't one single Eldrazi deck running around eating people's happiness, there are a variety of Eldrazi decks and many of them attack in different ways and need to be attacked in different ways.
Sorry if that came off as abrasive, but I'm really enjoying this deck in playtesting and don't wanna see this thread fall prey to a common misunderstanding or miscommunication.
Thanks for all the great tips and information you folks put up.
Both Thundermaw Hellkite and Stormbreath Dragon roll Lingering Souls. Stormbreath dodges Path to Exile and can burn 'em out lategame if you build up some mana. Thundermaw kills Cliques and Thopters and gets into the Red Zone ASAP.
Batterskull is backbreaking against non-Infect aggro decks if you get it on-board. It's also pretty good against grindy decks that lead to stalled boards because it's big on it's own and just enormous when you slap it on a Snapcaster Mage, Vendilion Clique, or Tarmogoyf.
Surrak Dragonclaw is a five mana 6/6 with pseudo-haste who makes Goyfs trample and Cliques uncounterable. If you see lots of Blue decks running around, he's gonna be a troublemaker. Flash also lets you hold up counter mana more easily, particularly Cryptic Command.
Chandra, Flamecaller is versatile. She gives you 6 hasty power over two bodies while going up in loyalty to a difficult to kill 5 right off the bat. Her zero is just straight up "Draw a card" if you're hellbent and can ship away excess lands, Blood Moons, Mana Leaks, and the like to turn bad late game top decks into another chance at gas. She can sweep the board against aggro decks to really stabilize with her minus. She also lets you go a bit wider if you're running her alongside Ma and Pa--though that might be getting greedy.
That she costs six is a pretty hefty downside, I'll admit. In a deck with 22-ish lands, the difference between 5 and 6 is considerable, but her power level seems high and her versatility seems pretty good in a deck that wants to slow the game down.
So, whadya think? Rose-colored glasses or cool new curve-topper?
I read this post back when it came out and that decklist makes me feel dirty in all the right ways. If I ever decide to pull the trigger on selling off my Esper Stoneblade legacy deck (ScapeWish and Trinity Green are so much more fun) I'll probably invest that money into Goyfs and Hierarchs to try that build out. It looks so, so sweet.
Plus, it seems easier for this deck to deal a billion damage than it does for more traditional RUG/BTL versions. Prismatic Omen, Khalni Heart Expedition and Prime Time can pretty easily make up for that four damage in a hurry.
With all that in mind, what would you folks suggest I do?
For the record, this is my list right now:
4x Primeval Titan
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
Instants (2)
2x Commune with Lava
Sorceries (13)
3x Explore
2x Farseek
4x Scapeshift
4x Search for Tomorrow
Enchantments (6)
4x Khalni Heart Expedition
2x Prismatic Omen
4x Relic of Progenitus
Lands (27)
4x Cinder Glade
4x Forest
7x Mountain
1x Stomping Ground
4x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
3x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Anger of the Gods
2x Boil
3x Crumble to Dust
3x Nature's Claim
2x Obstinate Baloth
1x Primal Command
1x Pulse of Murasa
It is extremely stock, I haven't fiddled with anything really because I haven't had the chance to play it enough to feel confidant making lots of changes. But if you notice anything else that seems out of place, I'm definitely open to hearing opinions. Thanks in advance for the advice!
This. The whole Eldrazi deck-mania that seems to be sweeping the internet is still a really new thing. There are a bunch of threads for the various decks, but they all seem riddled with people asking about other versions or for pros and cons and whatnot. Lots of interest, I think it'd be really helpful to have that addressed from one perspective. I love that this deck gets to run so much more LD, but miss the Paths B/W runs, as well as all the wonderful sideboard bombs White brings.
I'd also like to see some talk about cards that look good, but aren't in the list. Cavern of Souls, Nihil Spellbomb, Void Winnower, Thoughtseize, or whatever other things people might be curious about. I assume Thoughtseize got the axe to make room for TKS? It's one of the cards I'm considering cutting in my B/W list to make room, but it feels bad to cut down on turn one discard. Are the added Scrabbling Claws a viable alternative? Is Cavern of Souls not included because all the creatures trigger on cast, not on ETB? Getting countered loses the body, but there's always more meat to throw into the grinder, right? Void Winnower is probably just WAY too janky, but some people seem to be interested in it for Twin, I assume. Warping Wail is getting lots of talk, but only a small portion of that talk is about testing results, seems like a really good card to make mention of if you've had time to put it through its paces.
And just a more personal question: how is All is Dust working? It sucks against Affinity, but it hits everything else you'd want to hit without eating your own stuff, but it does cost seven. This deck ramps and it can ramp really hard, but seven is still a lot. Does it ever feel too clunky? And is it the kind of thing where even if it does feel clunky at times, it's still the best option available?
Either way, I really like what you've got going here already and the list looks all kinds of awesome.
What are some tips you folks have for a guy looking to dive into Legacy with this lovely, hateful beast? What are match-ups I should be aware of? Anything I should know about piloting the deck? How big of a deal is the black splash? It's to even up some of the deck's rough match-ups, right? How much of the deck changes with the switch from G/b to Mono-Green? Just the lands and black cards? Anything and everything is welcomed and appreciated. =)
Okay, cool. I'll definitely check that out. Most of the expensive cards are cards I already have or are cards that could translate well, so that's not the biggest concern to me. Thanks =)
So, I'm looking to get into Legacy from EDH and this deck hits pretty much all the check boxes for me. It's grindy, it's stompy, it's mean-spirited, and it doesn't cost me my firstborn buying duals alone. I already have a couple Chalice of the Voids and a playset of Wastelands from an early attempt to slowly accumulate a Fish deck (I gave up when I realized having one Force of Will already was NOT going to cushion the blow of needing a playset lol). I have two Ancient Tombs, a Green Sun's Zenith, a Sylvan Library, a Master of the Wild Hunt, and a Thrun, the Last Troll. This deck spoke to me and Bosque's take in particular, since I already have a decent amount of the non-budget cards, seems like a great way to break into the format. I've played with a friend's Reanimator deck, I've proxied up a Fish deck, and I've played a couple games against a limited field of decks, but I'm still really new to all this.
In EDH, I love playing grindy, value-based attrition decks that win by slowly building resources and slowly cutting opponents' off before going over the top with something big and splashy. This seems like a pretty good parallel to that type of deck, it looks powerful, and it looks really fun. Is there anything I should know before getting started?
Removal:
Fleshbag Marauder
Merciless Executioner
Reclamation Sage
Caustic Caterpillar
Viridian Zealot
Bone Shredder
Big Game Hunter
Sylvok Replica
Ramp
Wood Elves
Farhaven Elf
Yavimaya Elder
Yavimaya Dryad
Yavimaya Granger
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Solemn Simulacrum
Devoted Druid
Dawntreader Elk
Card Draw/Manipulation
Disciple of Bolas
Grim Haruspex
Corpse Augur
Smothering Abomination
Catacomb Sifter
Fauna Shaman
Fierce Empath
Moriok Replica
Sacrificial Shenanigans
Viscera Seer
Carrion Feeder
Blood Artist
Zulaport Cutthroat
Recursion
Eternal Witness
Apprentice Necromancer
Fodder
Bloodghast
Reassembling Skeleton
Nether Traitor
Utility
Liliana, Heretical Healer
Spore Frog
Spike Weaver
Vampire Hexmage
A few of those guys aren't ETB creatures, but they're cheap and powerful enough to be worthwhile. A couple are in the 4 CMC range, but they're powerful so I figured I'd include them anyway. Very few of these cards are stretches to fit the theme, most of them are just really good.
EDIT: Hm. Posting this list has rekindled my interest in building Meren myself. Crap.
Yeah, I really dug your list. I'd completely written off Dragonlord Kolaghan until I saw your list. He's a great fit for a deck like this that wants to be able to attack for the win off of Dragonstorm.
Since I'm not much of a combo guy myself, I was wondering what you guys think I should do to tone things down a bit. I don't wanna build a terrible deck, just one that doesn't look to win as quickly.