I had a response typed out about how a two player mechanic only ever letting one player win was counter intuitive, but then I read Rule 705. After more research, I realized it's not a two player mechanic. lol
Mana Crypt and friends have all been reworded. Sigh.
I'm getting less and less excited about these two guys. >_<
Just keep in mind that with Okaun and Zndrsplt, only the ability that GRANTS flips cares if you win the flips. The P/T and Draw abilities trigger off every contested flip, regardless of who wins: "Whenever a player wins a coin flip..."
Four flips and a Chandra's Ignition is going to be game over most times.
So starting from the OP Deck List, what would you guys cut for Bob, Toxic Deluge, and GMoA?
I'm leaning towards Graveborn Muse, Oblivion Stone, and Kokusho, respectively. Muse seems like a no-brainer, Kokusho is pretty obvious, but O-Stone for Deluge is my sticking point, since O-Stone can clear out non-creature permanents.
I swapped out Grim Tutor and Imperial Seal (I need way more brownie points with the missus before dropping almost a grand) for a Liliana Vess and a Diabolic Tutor. I know I'll lose some early game acceleration, but I them's the breaks; plus, Lili might work out for the best if she goes unanswered.
Well, I know what I'm building next. The update to Gaka's list looks great, Johnny. I'll post back in a couple weeks, after I've secured all the cards.
Played a couple games today (without the changes from the post above) and won both. First up was Mikaeus the Lunarch; won with a Ward of Bones / Mishra's Factory soft lock. Second was Niv-Mizzet; this came down to an Armageddon to stall his Windfall (and kill Niv with Pendrell Mists), then a Sharuum + Magister Sphinx two turns later, all under a Defense Grid.
Salvaging Station + Engineered Explosives was amazing. Mana Web makes for some amusing over-extension on their part. Descent into Madness got binned both games.
All in all, pretty happy with it so far. I need to get some multiplayer games in soon, though.
The meta here is pretty lax. We're a community of maybe 50 MtG players, most of whom are fairly casual. I'm not overly worried about getting hated off the table just because I'm playing Sharuum; if that does happen often, I'll swap generals and continue on my merry way.
As for Foundry/Sword/Sieve, I'm looking for cards that open up different opportunities. Sieve into Balancing Act. Foundry to protect 'facts from exiles and tucks. Sword...well, sword is just a combo piece; you got me there.
In regards to switching to combo, I'm toying with the idea of having a block of cards I can swap out at my whim that will convert between Combo and Stax. This will keep people on their toes and keep the deck semi-fresh.
I would dumb the CIPT and bounce lands and invest in land tax. Top decking land, especially do nothing that turn lands mid-late game can hose you. I'd just go basics. Plus land tax is especially helpful in stax builds where land is usually being eaten.
I agree - I think I went too far in trying to homogenize the mana base. Land Tax is, in hindsight, the way to go.
Also, descent into madness is sort of terrible. I'd swap it out for desolation. The fact everyone sacks on you or upkeep and can just discard isn't really that strong. Believe me, I've tried to make it work and it was good at all.
Yeah, Descent sucks in practice. Mandatory counter addition, exiles, and you can use card in hand? Just bad. It actually kept me from combo'ing out one game since it exiles.
I would also not play sharrum. Just stick in trading post and pick someone better.
I'm running dromar, the banisher in my esper list and he's way more effective then sharumm.
I'm seeing that more and more. I originally wanted to do something "different" with Sharuum - not just combo out and GG - but I'm starting to doubt the validity of it. Shrug - a few more days won't kill me.
Stax will not help you fight off 3+ other players in Sharuum. In most decks stax only makes you the next one to be eliminated. I know its the card all the cool kids play, but its just plain lame. I would say ban it because its annoying and against the spirit of EDH, but there are so many people trying to be "cool" who play it badly, it only loses them the game.
..
Excellent point. I figured if people are already going to be hating on Sharuum, might as well give them something to hate. We have a fairly relaxed meta here, and I don't get to play often. The guy I usually duel with doesn't really run any Tier 1 generals.
I'm going for more of a Prison style Stax, though admittedly with an emphasis on resource denial. I have very fond memories of my PropaOrb deck from '98-'99 or so, and I'm kind of trying to relive some of that. Though where that deck was pretty much Winter Orb and bounce effects, I'm trying to make this one a little more aggressive.
It may not work. I'm ok with that. I can always build a more mainstream Sharuum deck out of the wreckage!
What do you think about...Jester's Cap for combo protection/spay and neuter?
Wouldn't a fairly average Bitter Ordeal fit this role? Timetwister or Elixir of Immortality allow recursion of Ordeal; not as convenient as Cap, but Ordeal already has a spot in what looks to be a very tight list.
Amazing amounts of information and tech in this thread! A big thank you to Jack and Jostin for sharing all this.
Back when I got into Commander, I was looking at Sharuum and thought to myself that too many people play her, so I disregarded her and moved on (to Damia, Riku, and Norin). A couple weeks ago, however, I got a bug to play a Stax deck, and settled on our winged kitty here.
After digging around, trading, and more online purchases than my GF needs to know about, I have a rudimentary decklist. I would love some help on it, if possible. If any of you have time, it can be found here.
Thank you guys for any feedback you have on my list and, again, the veritable ocean of knowledge here!
Mana Crypt and friends have all been reworded. Sigh.
I'm getting less and less excited about these two guys. >_<
Just keep in mind that with Okaun and Zndrsplt, only the ability that GRANTS flips cares if you win the flips. The P/T and Draw abilities trigger off every contested flip, regardless of who wins: "Whenever a player wins a coin flip..."
Four flips and a Chandra's Ignition is going to be game over most times.
I'm leaning towards Graveborn Muse, Oblivion Stone, and Kokusho, respectively. Muse seems like a no-brainer, Kokusho is pretty obvious, but O-Stone for Deluge is my sticking point, since O-Stone can clear out non-creature permanents.
I swapped out Grim Tutor and Imperial Seal (I need way more brownie points with the missus before dropping almost a grand) for a Liliana Vess and a Diabolic Tutor. I know I'll lose some early game acceleration, but I them's the breaks; plus, Lili might work out for the best if she goes unanswered.
Should be sleeved up by Wednesday!
Salvaging Station + Engineered Explosives was amazing. Mana Web makes for some amusing over-extension on their part. Descent into Madness got binned both games.
All in all, pretty happy with it so far. I need to get some multiplayer games in soon, though.
As for Foundry/Sword/Sieve, I'm looking for cards that open up different opportunities. Sieve into Balancing Act. Foundry to protect 'facts from exiles and tucks. Sword...well, sword is just a combo piece; you got me there.
In regards to switching to combo, I'm toying with the idea of having a block of cards I can swap out at my whim that will convert between Combo and Stax. This will keep people on their toes and keep the deck semi-fresh.
Thinking about making the following changes:
-Helm of Obedience
-Leyline of the Void
-Descent into Madness
-Magister Sphinx
-Return to Dust
+Thopter Foundry
+Sword of the Meek
+Time Sieve
+Dispeller's Capsule
+Trading Post
And maybe:
-Braids, Cabal Minion
-Hokori, Dust Drinker
-World Queller
+Basalt Monolith
+Mana Vault
+Desolation
Thoughts? Oh, and I'm still on board for Land Tax - I just don't have one right now; those changes will be down the road.
I agree - I think I went too far in trying to homogenize the mana base. Land Tax is, in hindsight, the way to go.
Yeah, Descent sucks in practice. Mandatory counter addition, exiles, and you can use card in hand? Just bad. It actually kept me from combo'ing out one game since it exiles.
I'm seeing that more and more. I originally wanted to do something "different" with Sharuum - not just combo out and GG - but I'm starting to doubt the validity of it. Shrug - a few more days won't kill me.
Might backfire with Pendrell Mists, Magus of the Tabernacle, and Vile Consumption...
Absolutely an option down the road. I'd like to see where Sharuum goes, first.
Another option I've been contemplating if this goes all pear shaped is either Ghave or Azusa.
Back on the topic of Sharuum, I have a Basalt Monolith and Mana Vault on the way. Should be a nice improvement in the quality of mana rocks.
Excellent point. I figured if people are already going to be hating on Sharuum, might as well give them something to hate. We have a fairly relaxed meta here, and I don't get to play often. The guy I usually duel with doesn't really run any Tier 1 generals.
I'm going for more of a Prison style Stax, though admittedly with an emphasis on resource denial. I have very fond memories of my PropaOrb deck from '98-'99 or so, and I'm kind of trying to relive some of that. Though where that deck was pretty much Winter Orb and bounce effects, I'm trying to make this one a little more aggressive.
It may not work. I'm ok with that. I can always build a more mainstream Sharuum deck out of the wreckage!
Wouldn't a fairly average Bitter Ordeal fit this role? Timetwister or Elixir of Immortality allow recursion of Ordeal; not as convenient as Cap, but Ordeal already has a spot in what looks to be a very tight list.
Back when I got into Commander, I was looking at Sharuum and thought to myself that too many people play her, so I disregarded her and moved on (to Damia, Riku, and Norin). A couple weeks ago, however, I got a bug to play a Stax deck, and settled on our winged kitty here.
After digging around, trading, and more online purchases than my GF needs to know about, I have a rudimentary decklist. I would love some help on it, if possible. If any of you have time, it can be found here.
Thank you guys for any feedback you have on my list and, again, the veritable ocean of knowledge here!