Everyone doesn't have a null rod, just added one to the list. Misinterpreting what I wrote before. I meant the entire card pool people can select from is My current cube list + 20 added utility lands + Null rod.
I mentioned it because it's not normally in my cube. I thought a timevault/tinker deck would be unbeatable for certain decks. I overestimated the need for it tho...
Considering almost all the artifact destruction got drafted... Kept those decks in line anyway.
Results: Marcel's Blue/Black Reanimator deck barely edged out the regular season champion Wilson Mok's Blue/White tempo deck in the finals.
Rd1
Ian (MonoR) Defeated Wilson (UW tempo)
Jeff (BW Stax) Defeated Jordan (Junk Land Destruction)
Marcel (UB reanimator) Defeated Mani (Gifts Ungiven Twin Combo)
Seb (Timevault combo) Defeated Steve (4 color midrange)
Rd2
Winners bracket:
Ian (MonoR) Defeated Seb (Timevault Combo)
Marcel (UB reanimator) defeated Jeff (BW stax)
Losers bracket:
Jordan (Junk Land Destruction) Defeated Mani (Gifts Ungiven Twin Combo)
Wilson (UW Tempo) Defeated Steve (4 color midrange)
Rd3
Winners Bracket:
Marcel (UB reanimator) defeated Ian (MonoR)
Losers bracket:
Seb (Timevault Combo) defeated Jeff (WB Stax)
Wilson (UW tempo) defeated Jordan (Junk Land destruction)
Rd4 *Seb bumped up to winners bracket, think we made a mistake here*
Seb (Timevault combo) defeated Marcel (UB reanimator)
Wilson (UW tempo) defeated Ian (MonoR)
Rd 5
Marcel *bye, by nature of being longest in winners bracket*
Wilson (UW tempo) Defeated Seb (Timevault combo)
My Draft Report:
At first I wanted to draft a mana denial/artifact desctruction/smoke stack strategy, utilizing my chance at a turn 1/2 smoke stack with mana crypt/mox.
I figured there weren't going to be many creature decks out there and I could really punish that with smokestack + a deck built around abusing strip mine.
I thought a lot of the better players were going for greedy manabases which I could really punish.
A big problem mid-draft was that I KNEW I was playing Jeff Fung in Rd1. I realized he was going for a very smiliar strategy but had much stronger engines to build around. When I realized smoke stack + grindy deck would be a liability against him, I decided to alter the strategy a bit and try to go over the top with natural/order craterhoof. Something I thought his deck couldn't handle.
I also knew at least 2 players were heavily graveyard based and jeff fung would be likely using bloodghasts, so I hoarded up all the graveyard hate early (that I knew steve would want).
My deck was good, but really needed another green fatty to put the pressure on and go over the top of Jeff fung or Steve if I ever played him (Hornet Queen/Woodfall primus). I realized it a bit too late in the draft when I was still missing some key pieces of my central strategy.
My utility creatures were excellent in mana denying , attacking the graveyard and dealing with artifacts. But they were not strong enough to deal with a solid one-two color mana base and resilient card advantage. I felt very disadvantaged vs Wilson (despite stealing a game), and couldn't keep up with 2x Stoneforge, Hymn to tourach, Jitte/Skulllclamp/Reccuring Nightmare engine of Jeff Fung.
Wasn't lucky enough to draw Craterhoof/Natural order/GSZ with mana + a board presence to go over the top of Fung, and definitely couldn't grind with all his card advantage engines.
Mani's deck was likely my best matchup , as I had 3 peices of graveyard hate, lots of ways of disrupting the twin combo, plus my mana denial strategy was particularly effective against his mana base. He didn't draw enough lands, and I was fortunate to draw my mana denial early.
Went 1-2, but played many close skill intensive games.
SUPER FUN if anyone here is thinking about organizing one.
I am always on the lookout for ways to turn mana dorks into threats that doesn't inhibit the decks ability to ramp.
Gavony township fits that description.
The biggest problem with lands like gavony township and kessig wolf run are that there's an opportunity cost to running them over lands that can produce colored mana.
In a powered cube there's some very strong colorless artifacts that effectively replace lands, as well as some extremly powerful colorless lands.
Unless you spend 6+ picks on dual lands, there's a good chance your manabase is going to be MUCH worse than a constructed mana base. With a weaker mana base, the opportunity cost of playing a colorless land is amplified.
I think both gavony township and kessig wolf run are very good, but being colorless and taking a guild slot, hurts them too much.
I might give gavony a shot someday for fun, but I expect to reach the same conclusion I reached before.
I'm not attacking your whole argument, just your sub argument to back up your main argument.
The opposite of value is negative value. That is a strong statement.
You say you already payed 3 mana for a 2/2 then compare its added ability to reprisal in isolation.
The biggest difference is that reprisal costs a card and mana, this guys ability just costs mana.
That's the definition of card advantage, which in most people's eyes is synonymous with value.
I agree that if every mode is super overcosted, value is a squirly term to use. Arguing that this card falls in that region is a separate argument.
But The OPPOSITE of value is.. Absurd
The argument is Pretty absurd taken at verbatim, so he's hoping satire.
I assume it was just poor use of language , but getting an extra card out of a card that costs one more to cast is close to the definition of Value... Not the opposite
Yeah, no doubt that his -2 is the more powerful mode and the basis of his strategy. the +1 is a nice powerful alternative when the situation warrants it.
Another added benefit of the +1 mana is to cast two spells In one turn, the card you drew off your deck and the card off sarkhan. Gives it another nod over coercive portal, which can sometimes strand cards in ur hand if their Cmc is too high.
plains, mox pearl, Black lotus, anafenza, 1 drop , 1 drop, 1 drop
Go!
Poor top deck, but can generate a lot of value for a two drop in the right deck.
Unfortunately it promotes over-extension and requires lots of other creatures to be good.
Might try it out, but don't expect her to last.
Edit:
Just realized she goes infinite with sac outlet + kitchen finks/murderous redcap, ala melira. Some consideration for playing her...
I don't know if anyone here cares, but after 7 months of cubing, have tallied up all the results from my cube.
The people with the best 8 records (out of ~20 people) have been invited for a high stakes rotisserie draft (March 7th, 2015) where I throw in some of my own money to the prize pool.
5 of the 8 players have been to the pro tour (myself included), with a couple of them have gone over 10 times. Many of the players in my group have been cubing for over a decade, so the play quality of the group is high.
Going to post the decklists/spreadsheet after the event as well as the results. I may record the matches as well.
Maybe someone can gain something from the deck lists. Using my cube + 20 utility lands + Null rod. 35 picks.
I LOOOVEEE Eternal witness, easily my favorite green card in cube.
That said, I don't think this girl is good enough.
I'm concerned that her body when not in morph mode is quite bad and only in very very desperate situations would you want to run it out without the morph cost.
Un-morphed morphs are really bad in cube, so 90%+ of the value of the card comes from being able to cast it and flip it up.
Which costs 5 mana over 1 or 2 turns...
Too much to pay for a 3/2 with a bit of evasion + regrowth IMO
Think it's borderline power level is such that it is dependent on having a morph sub-theme in your cube. Having a diverse morph list increases the value to her and the other moves in the cube, potentially enough to push it into playable range.
Only 75% confident in this evaluation, hope I'm wrong.
Reminds me a bit of Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath; a big flying creature that leaves behind a decent Planeswalker. But more cost effective, since it's three colours. I might move Yasova to the green section to make room for it if we decide to run it.
Definitely similar, but more flexiblity in that sarkhan has two very strong modes.
Ob nixilis generates 2 5/5's and a tiny life swing over 3 turns, Sarkhan draws a card and generates 2 4/4's.
Id favour that to sarkhan.
If you have are ahead, you can choose to sit back and draw cards to prevent over-extension. You may be desperate for an answer to a creeping tar-pit or a TNN and need to find the card you want.
You could have a super busted 7 drop and need the mana to cast it...
They could have burn/removal in their hand and you want to get sarkhan out of burn range while generating value etc.
They have a ratchet bomb in their deck and their life total is high.
Most of the time you want to churn out dragons, but when you don't, that other mode is a very nice alternative.
The comparison to ob-nixilis is a great one tho.. I see him as a better ob nixlis, which is quite strong.
Not really in the market for another fatty, but I like him.
He's very versatile (he's reasonable in just about any cheaty strategy), and has the power level to boot.
I like my reanimation targets to help stabalize a bit in situations where you are close to dead on board. This guy does just that, and presents a very fast clock in himself.
Was it really that OP to just print players instead of planeswalkers?!? jeez wizards, way to make it tough for cube owners =P
Initial impressions is on the tier 2 white 4 drop scale (Hero of bladehold and restoration angel stand alone in tier 1).
Current tier 2's I have is sublime archangel, jazal goldmane, ranger of eos.. (I have no play experience with emeria angel).
I have room for 1 or 2 of them in my cube, so not sure if he's worthy. Jazal is consistantly on the fringe of being cut.. Never seem to draft a deck that wants him, so haven't given him the proper testing that I want. No one in my play group has said good things tho.. I guess I'll make the temporary switch to give this guy a try. I don't expect him to last, but could be surprised.
I mentioned it because it's not normally in my cube. I thought a timevault/tinker deck would be unbeatable for certain decks. I overestimated the need for it tho...
Considering almost all the artifact destruction got drafted... Kept those decks in line anyway.
Results: Marcel's Blue/Black Reanimator deck barely edged out the regular season champion Wilson Mok's Blue/White tempo deck in the finals.
Rd1
Ian (MonoR) Defeated Wilson (UW tempo)
Jeff (BW Stax) Defeated Jordan (Junk Land Destruction)
Marcel (UB reanimator) Defeated Mani (Gifts Ungiven Twin Combo)
Seb (Timevault combo) Defeated Steve (4 color midrange)
Rd2
Winners bracket:
Ian (MonoR) Defeated Seb (Timevault Combo)
Marcel (UB reanimator) defeated Jeff (BW stax)
Losers bracket:
Jordan (Junk Land Destruction) Defeated Mani (Gifts Ungiven Twin Combo)
Wilson (UW Tempo) Defeated Steve (4 color midrange)
Rd3
Winners Bracket:
Marcel (UB reanimator) defeated Ian (MonoR)
Losers bracket:
Seb (Timevault Combo) defeated Jeff (WB Stax)
Wilson (UW tempo) defeated Jordan (Junk Land destruction)
Rd4 *Seb bumped up to winners bracket, think we made a mistake here*
Seb (Timevault combo) defeated Marcel (UB reanimator)
Wilson (UW tempo) defeated Ian (MonoR)
Rd 5
Marcel *bye, by nature of being longest in winners bracket*
Wilson (UW tempo) Defeated Seb (Timevault combo)
Rd 6
Marcel(UB reanimator) defeated Wilson(UW tempo)
Learned a LOT from this...
My Draft Report:
At first I wanted to draft a mana denial/artifact desctruction/smoke stack strategy, utilizing my chance at a turn 1/2 smoke stack with mana crypt/mox.
I figured there weren't going to be many creature decks out there and I could really punish that with smokestack + a deck built around abusing strip mine.
I thought a lot of the better players were going for greedy manabases which I could really punish.
A big problem mid-draft was that I KNEW I was playing Jeff Fung in Rd1. I realized he was going for a very smiliar strategy but had much stronger engines to build around. When I realized smoke stack + grindy deck would be a liability against him, I decided to alter the strategy a bit and try to go over the top with natural/order craterhoof. Something I thought his deck couldn't handle.
I also knew at least 2 players were heavily graveyard based and jeff fung would be likely using bloodghasts, so I hoarded up all the graveyard hate early (that I knew steve would want).
My deck was good, but really needed another green fatty to put the pressure on and go over the top of Jeff fung or Steve if I ever played him (Hornet Queen/Woodfall primus). I realized it a bit too late in the draft when I was still missing some key pieces of my central strategy.
My utility creatures were excellent in mana denying , attacking the graveyard and dealing with artifacts. But they were not strong enough to deal with a solid one-two color mana base and resilient card advantage. I felt very disadvantaged vs Wilson (despite stealing a game), and couldn't keep up with 2x Stoneforge, Hymn to tourach, Jitte/Skulllclamp/Reccuring Nightmare engine of Jeff Fung.
Wasn't lucky enough to draw Craterhoof/Natural order/GSZ with mana + a board presence to go over the top of Fung, and definitely couldn't grind with all his card advantage engines.
Mani's deck was likely my best matchup , as I had 3 peices of graveyard hate, lots of ways of disrupting the twin combo, plus my mana denial strategy was particularly effective against his mana base. He didn't draw enough lands, and I was fortunate to draw my mana denial early.
Went 1-2, but played many close skill intensive games.
SUPER FUN if anyone here is thinking about organizing one.
Decay > Shaman (some eccentric cubes can make this not true)
Silumgar > Seer (ive never liked seer)
Revelation >= Ojutai's command > Narset (all seem close in power level at first glance tho)
Gavony township fits that description.
The biggest problem with lands like gavony township and kessig wolf run are that there's an opportunity cost to running them over lands that can produce colored mana.
In a powered cube there's some very strong colorless artifacts that effectively replace lands, as well as some extremly powerful colorless lands.
Unless you spend 6+ picks on dual lands, there's a good chance your manabase is going to be MUCH worse than a constructed mana base. With a weaker mana base, the opportunity cost of playing a colorless land is amplified.
I think both gavony township and kessig wolf run are very good, but being colorless and taking a guild slot, hurts them too much.
I might give gavony a shot someday for fun, but I expect to reach the same conclusion I reached before.
The opposite of value is negative value. That is a strong statement.
You say you already payed 3 mana for a 2/2 then compare its added ability to reprisal in isolation.
The biggest difference is that reprisal costs a card and mana, this guys ability just costs mana.
That's the definition of card advantage, which in most people's eyes is synonymous with value.
I agree that if every mode is super overcosted, value is a squirly term to use. Arguing that this card falls in that region is a separate argument.
But The OPPOSITE of value is.. Absurd
I assume it was just poor use of language , but getting an extra card out of a card that costs one more to cast is close to the definition of Value... Not the opposite
Another added benefit of the +1 mana is to cast two spells In one turn, the card you drew off your deck and the card off sarkhan. Gives it another nod over coercive portal, which can sometimes strand cards in ur hand if their Cmc is too high.
Go!
Poor top deck, but can generate a lot of value for a two drop in the right deck.
Unfortunately it promotes over-extension and requires lots of other creatures to be good.
Might try it out, but don't expect her to last.
Edit:
Just realized she goes infinite with sac outlet + kitchen finks/murderous redcap, ala melira. Some consideration for playing her...
The people with the best 8 records (out of ~20 people) have been invited for a high stakes rotisserie draft (March 7th, 2015) where I throw in some of my own money to the prize pool.
5 of the 8 players have been to the pro tour (myself included), with a couple of them have gone over 10 times. Many of the players in my group have been cubing for over a decade, so the play quality of the group is high.
Going to post the decklists/spreadsheet after the event as well as the results. I may record the matches as well.
Maybe someone can gain something from the deck lists. Using my cube + 20 utility lands + Null rod. 35 picks.
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/5624 is the list we are drafting from
1. Wilson Mok
2. Sebastian Denno
3. Mani Davoudi
4. Jeff Fung
5. Jordan Cairns
6. Marcel Dizon
7. Ian Jang
8. Stephen Barnett
That said, I don't think this girl is good enough.
I'm concerned that her body when not in morph mode is quite bad and only in very very desperate situations would you want to run it out without the morph cost.
Un-morphed morphs are really bad in cube, so 90%+ of the value of the card comes from being able to cast it and flip it up.
Which costs 5 mana over 1 or 2 turns...
Too much to pay for a 3/2 with a bit of evasion + regrowth IMO
Think it's borderline power level is such that it is dependent on having a morph sub-theme in your cube. Having a diverse morph list increases the value to her and the other moves in the cube, potentially enough to push it into playable range.
Only 75% confident in this evaluation, hope I'm wrong.
Definitely similar, but more flexiblity in that sarkhan has two very strong modes.
Ob nixilis generates 2 5/5's and a tiny life swing over 3 turns, Sarkhan draws a card and generates 2 4/4's.
Id favour that to sarkhan.
If you have are ahead, you can choose to sit back and draw cards to prevent over-extension. You may be desperate for an answer to a creeping tar-pit or a TNN and need to find the card you want.
You could have a super busted 7 drop and need the mana to cast it...
They could have burn/removal in their hand and you want to get sarkhan out of burn range while generating value etc.
They have a ratchet bomb in their deck and their life total is high.
Most of the time you want to churn out dragons, but when you don't, that other mode is a very nice alternative.
The comparison to ob-nixilis is a great one tho.. I see him as a better ob nixlis, which is quite strong.
He's very versatile (he's reasonable in just about any cheaty strategy), and has the power level to boot.
I like my reanimation targets to help stabalize a bit in situations where you are close to dead on board. This guy does just that, and presents a very fast clock in himself.
Was it really that OP to just print players instead of planeswalkers?!? jeez wizards, way to make it tough for cube owners =P
Initial impressions is on the tier 2 white 4 drop scale (Hero of bladehold and restoration angel stand alone in tier 1).
Current tier 2's I have is sublime archangel, jazal goldmane, ranger of eos.. (I have no play experience with emeria angel).
I have room for 1 or 2 of them in my cube, so not sure if he's worthy. Jazal is consistantly on the fringe of being cut.. Never seem to draft a deck that wants him, so haven't given him the proper testing that I want. No one in my play group has said good things tho.. I guess I'll make the temporary switch to give this guy a try. I don't expect him to last, but could be surprised.
I like rampager more too, but I'm suuuper high on rampager. Think it's #1 or #2 gruul (blasphemous I know)