Magic Market Index for Dec 28th, 2018
 
Magic Market Index for Dec 21st, 2018
 
Ultimate Masters: MMI Review
  • posted a message on [CUBE][RNA] Includes and Testing Results
    Quote from Superna7ural »
    Quote from LucidVision »



    I simply said nobody is drafting it for the main anymore.

    My players seem to enjoy building around problems seeking solutions, and just because they do so, doesn't mean they are casual players. At least in the context and in relation to your draft format.


    If they are skilled at card evaluation , and not main decking thoughtseize, it means that winning is a low priority to these players, even when deck building. That sounds like the definition of casual to me.

    But I do agree you should do what you want heh... just don't be surprised if it gets some negative feedback.. there are assumptions that go into suggestions for cube design.. and we have to make those assumptions to some degree to have a productive discussion.

    Like when people ask "should I include card X or Y"? It's unreasonable to ask them every single thing about their cube composition and playgroups preference before you answer that question. You have to assume there aren't too many extreme deviations from the accepted norm.
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [CUBE][RNA] Includes and Testing Results
    There is an implicit design thesis on this forum. We are designing our own limited format with the most iconic and powerful magic cards of all time. You can stray from that thesis, as it's your format, and that's fine... But thoughtseize is one of the most powerful, iconic , cheap cmc black card of all time. The use of the word mistake, is under the assumption you are trying to stick to that thesis.
    Thoughtseize is on my short list of cards I'd NEVER cut from cube, and I bet many people here feel the same.

    The most likely truth is your playgroup is a group of casual players that aren't well versed in card valuation, if they aren't putting it in the main deck. It literally should never miss a main deck that plays swamps, if they are trying to win.
    It's important to cater to your playgroups preference, but maybe if people started realizing how good the card actually is, they would appreciate it more.
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on Aristocrats
    Quote from ryansaxe »
    I think a really big key to supporting archetypes like this is minimizing the cards you include that only go in this deck while maximizing cards you include that can be played elsewhere, but excel in this deck. Blood Artist and the like already don't go in other decks, so you don't have as much room to play with cards like Spawning Pit.


    This x100.

    I ended up very temporarily cutting black agro because of the amount of cards that ONLY worked in artistocrats.. Sometimes I'd get random UB midrange decks with like 7-8 side boardblack creatures that were unplayable because of lack of density of synergy. It made certain black color combinations or strategies unplayable, whereas if they were generically good black 2/3 drops like pack rat, kitesail freebooter, Gifted Aetherborn, there'd be more versatile midrange options.

    Finding the right balance is tricky, but I believe it can be done. Cards like flesh carver are perfect, since they are naturally solid playables in multiple archetype, but the sacrifice aspect of it is very on theme.
    It's only going to get better over time, as the developers at WOTC continue to print cards for this strategy in standard.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on [CUBETUTOR POWER RANKINGS] 2018 -- VOTING NOW OPEN -- BY COLOR AND CMC
    Good work! I recommend you put privacy protection on so people can only edit a blank column, or something more advanced.. As of right now, I can tinker with everyones ratings. So 1 malicious person can wipe out everything, unless you have a plan for this..
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on Aristocrats
    Quote from noshadowkick »
    The new Ravnica set has a lot of cards that play well in Aristocrats shells. Is anyone here running a 'crats package and care to elaborate on what has been working/not working for them?



    I do, and I run duplicates, but I don't think it's necessary. You need sac outlets, recursive creatures and payoff for things dying. Think it can totally work in a normal cube.

    Goblin bombardment, Blood artist, Zulaport cutthroat ,Carrion feeder, Falkenrath aristrocrat, greater gargadon, bloodghast, bloodsoaked champion, gravecrawler, Judith scourge diva, flesh carver, ophio mancer, braids cabal minion off the top of my head are all incredible in the archetype.

    Midnight reaper, Murderous redcap, Geralf's messenger, Zealous conscripts, dread wanderer as tier 2..
    White has some decent splashes in Sorin/Lingering souls.

    Bombardment and skullclamp are probably the highest payoff for the archetype and blood artist effects are the glue that holds it all together.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on [RNA] [CUBE] Judith, the Scourge Diva
    Quote from noshadowkick »
    Quote from LucidVision »
    Jeeessus did this card overperform today. Ran 3 cubes with ~ 10 cards today... and I am about 8 cubes deep with some of the early spoilers..
    I can confidently say Judith impressed me the most relative to my expectation of the card.

    It was in a semi-aristrocrat deck both times I saw it in action.. but she did so good without any recursive shenanigans, I'm beginning to think she may deserve a slot in normal BR agro sections.

    She pressed the advantage hard every time I saw her resolve. The +1/+0 pumped other creatures to levels that either traded with blockers that otherwise had profitable blocks, or do 1 less damage, and then the death trigger would finish off the creature.

    Suddenly courser of kruphix felt bad against a zurgo bellstriker, a gravecrawler and a flesh carver. Trading up 2 toughness with creatures is very powerful, as is pinging mana elves with death triggers.
    Still a very small sample, but looking forward to testing with her more!


    Thanks for posting your experience. Do you run an Aristocrats package in your cube? I'm trying to necro the old thread to hear from people who support Aristocrats. As I look at my list I think all I'm missing are the payoff cards (and I already run some of those). Judith definitely seems like she'd be great in that kind of deck. If she's playable in aggro as well she definitely deserves to be tested.


    I do, but I run duplicates so the archetype is better in my cube. I'll reply in the thread you necroed. https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/620005-aristocrats
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [RNA][CUBE] Kaya's Wrath
    Quote from Metamind »
    I agree with Patrunkenphat. If some of you are still looking for a four mana mass removal, Settle the Wreckage played better here than any 5 mana wrath. I think the card is a bit overlooked. It keeps you alive against aggression as good as any other wrath. Not being able to kill creatures that do not attack is obviously a big drawback, but the other advantages of the card almost make up for it. First, it answers haste creatures. Who didn't play a mass removal on turn 4 just for his opponent to immediately play Hellrider/BB elf/Koth? Settle keeps you safer for an extra turn. Settle answers manlands, vehicles and attacking Gideons, that normally evade mass removals. Exiling over destroying is another relevant perk.
    But the most important is that StW is playable in more decks, at least as a sideboard card. You can play it in creature based decks against more aggressive opponents. Token decks, G/W ramp decks with elves and even sometimes white weenie or midrange will side it in when they are the slower deck. I recommend people who consider trying Kaya's Wrath to also consider testing Settle the Wreckage.


    I haven't cubed with settle the wreckage yet, but played enough with it in standard to be confident what you are saying is true. Reasons I don't test it, is more for an environment I'm trying to cultivate, rather than it being good enough.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it was better than a 4th 4 mana wrath of god effect, only because I'd prefer my control deck to have access to one of both than multiple destroy effects. Diversity of answers and what not.
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [CUBE][RNA] Includes and Testing Results
    Random testing notes:

    -Sphinx of foresight
    seemed very solid in combo decks. Seen play in sneak attack decks and a kiki-jiki/eureka hybrid combo. It was clear to me that some decks have opening hands that are absurdly broken, and plenty of hands that do nothing... In those decks I think this card is going to be great. IE Combo decks with black lotus. The body had random utility as well. It was sneak attacked in to combine for lethal with another creature. It was cast with selvala to draw a card and make her ramp +3 in a deck with almost no blue mana. Both people that drafted the card said it was great for them.

    -Biogenic Ooze
    I cooled a tiny bit on this card after one cube. The kicker was it's vulnerability to Red removal. Only time it was cast it got hit by a Goblin Cratermaker before the end step... Two cubes it hit sideboard and went late in the draft. Not that I don't think it's good, only that I think I have too many 5 drops in the decks it'll be played in... and I think I'm going to have to cut one I like... Gonna be a hard choice.

    -Hydroid Krasis
    Saw it cast for x=4, It felt very solid but not incredible. I really liked how the body couldn't be cloned, bounced or fractured identified proftiably.
    Highlight was that The first time it was cast, I saw it's maximum broken mode.. Channel x=18, Draw 9 Gain 9, off the cards drawed, spent 8 life, played Ugin (went to 3 life against my UW control deck). I untapped, cast Fractured identity on his Ugin and killed him Laughing So.. verdict out if that line is actually good Smile

    -Ravager Wurm
    Ravager wurm felt very fair. Basically what I was expecting, if not slightly worse. It actually saw a fair amount of main deck play, but never saw it be clutch. Fills a role that I'm under-saturated on, but weak compared to other cube 6+ drops. It's rarely gonna win the game by itself, which is something that almost all cube 6 drops can do. Probably gonna axe it soon.

    -Dovin, Grand Arbiter
    I kept seeing it cast on the backfoot against agro decks, so never really got to see it pressure anyone. Trading with a cheap creature, soaking up 2 damage from another and gaining life was a decent road block, considering it's weakness is it's low loyalty. It looked nice during deck construction with the artifact synergies. Inconclusive testing.

    -Incubation//Incongruity
    Didn't see it in play, but saw some decks that were happy to have access to it. Not a powerful card, but I really liked the role that it filled. Instant exile speed removal is non-existant in those colors, which was key against kiki-jiki and blightsteel colosus/Ulamog. It served as a roleplayer in a Kiki-jiki deck to find combo pieces , while having outs to huge creatures. Saw play in an arcane savant/temporal mastery/recurring nightmare deck, was nice for finding arcane savant. Glad to have it in my sideboard in a creature light UWg artifact deck.
    A late pick, but I liked it.

    End-Raze Forerunners
    Got to play it twice in two different natural order decks... It performed well, but I'm unsure if it'll stick. The issue isn't if it's a good card or not (it is), the issue is saturation of similar effects and good 8 CMC green cards.
    Both decks wanted a craterhoof effect, but both decks clearly only wanted 1 not 2.
    In the first draft, I played a GB natural order/Rec Nightmare deck. I had both Craterhoof and end-raze. I wished the End-raze was a Terastadon in that deck.

    In the second draft, in pack 3 I got to pick a ramunap excavator (I had strip mine, wasteland and greens sun zenith) OVER a Craterhoof behemoth, knowing that the end-razer I saw in an early pack would probably wheel. That was a nice option.
    The only time I was in a place to natural order for either, Craterhoof would have done nothing, while end-razer made me a favorite to win in a spot I was well behind. I was against BR agro and on the backfoot against a strong start. Natural ordered my only creature away to get end-razer. Put a very fast clock on, while providing a huge blocker. Every keyword was relevant.
    Ended up losing the game with my opponent at 3... He was able to assemble enough blockers with A 4/4 Flesh-carver and murderous redcap and trade with the end-razer, and I flooded.

    Very early testing relative to expectations:
    Judith, The scourge Diva ++
    Sphinx of foresight +
    Hydroid Krasis =
    Dovin, Grand Arbiter =
    Biogenic OOze -
    End-Raze Forerunners -
    Ravager Wurm -


    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [CUBE][RNA] Includes and Testing Results
    Ranked by likelyhood the card will be around in my 540 cube ~1 year from now. Nothing in this set that I think is in the top 50% of my cube, so I'm not 100% sure about anything.

    80%+
    Spawn of Mayhem
    Judith, The scourge Diva (Would have predicted ~10% before I saw it in action)

    50-80%
    Sphinx of foresight
    Biogenic Ooze
    Hydroid Krasis

    25-50%
    End-Raze Forerunners

    10-25%
    Dovin, Grand Arbiter
    Incubation//Incongruity
    Cindervines
    Tithe Taker

    10%-
    Ravager Wurm

    Cards I'm interested in, but not enough to test:
    Salamander Drake
    Gutterbones (If I cut my 1 drop black duplicates itll go in)
    Light up the stage
    Gruul spellbreaker
    Bedevil
    Rix maadi Reveler
    Electrodominance
    Domri, Chaos Bringer
    Savage's Rhythm
    Thrash//Threat
    Pestilent Spirit
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on This or That discussion.
    Quote from ryansaxe »
    Spear of Heliod vs. Honor of the Pure

    Spear sees almost no play outside of WW decks, and the activation rarely comes up. Thinking of making the swap, or even just cutting spear altogether. The creature anthems and cards like Gideon Ally of Zendikar might be enough. Convince me otherwise if you can Grin


    I've always thought the 3 mana anthems were over-rated... as in they don't deserve slots over some of the white creatures that aren't seeing play @ 3.
    Honor of the pure is the better card in MonoW by a lot...whether it's worth it to run depends a lot on your cube composition and your goals when supporting agro.

    Like, do you want to focus on multi-color agro decks? Mono color? I noticed when I included cards like Goblin Chainwhirler, Geralf's Messenger, Lake of the dead, honor of the pure, Benalish marhsal.. People wouldn't splash a second color nearly as much. They would run perfect mono-colored mana bases and their 24th playable would be a low-tier card. All the decks started to look the same. I decided I don't want to encourage less mono-colored agro decks and trimmed most of the heavy color commitment cards.

    I think if white weenie decks aren't performing well, honor of the pure helps them out.. It's a powerful card in MonoW. I run neither at the moment, but would include Honor before I would include spear, and could see myself getting honor back in.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on [RNA] [CUBE] Judith, the Scourge Diva
    Jeeessus did this card overperform today. Ran 3 cubes with ~ 10 cards today... and I am about 8 cubes deep with some of the early spoilers..
    I can confidently say Judith impressed me the most relative to my expectation of the card.

    It was in a semi-aristrocrat deck both times I saw it in action.. but she did so good without any recursive shenanigans, I'm beginning to think she may deserve a slot in normal BR agro sections.

    She pressed the advantage hard every time I saw her resolve. The +1/+0 pumped other creatures to levels that either traded with blockers that otherwise had profitable blocks, or do 1 less damage, and then the death trigger would finish off the creature.

    Suddenly courser of kruphix felt bad against a zurgo bellstriker, a gravecrawler and a flesh carver. Trading up 2 toughness with creatures is very powerful, as is pinging mana elves with death triggers.
    Still a very small sample, but looking forward to testing with her more!
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [RNA][CUBE] Biogenic Ooze
    Quote from Metamind »

    All that is to say that I'd be very sad to play it in a deck without a real viability of using the activated ability at least once a game. That decks needs to be heavy green and ramp hard. Such decks obviously exist in the cube, and it has great synergy with Cradle, Rofellos and co. But it will not be a good midrange card, not is it worthy of cheat/ETB abuse. Reminds me of Polukranos - has an almost acceptable floor without sinking extra mana into it, but becomes much better in certain archetyes because it is a mana sink.


    I fully agree that most of the time you want to play this in a heavy green deck (2 power synergies + ooze tribal + clones are an exception).

    But, at least in my cube with excellent fixing, multi color green decks have an abundance of 5 drops to chose from, because they have access to the 5 drops of the other colors as well. Red and white are super stacked @ 5. Black and blue are light, but tend to go "bigger" than 5 CMC well naturally..

    The restrictive cost of it's ability is a thing, but don't think it's a make or break with the card. It's very rare for decks that can cast 3GG comfortably to have less than 8-9 green sources anyway, which will still be able to activate it's ability >50% of the time on curve.

    I'm pretty happy to run a card that has very high upside in Rofellos/Cradle decks, that is a "meh" 22-25th playable in 2+ color midrange decks...
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [RNA] [CUBE] Incubation Druid
    Seems good with Muzzio's preparations Smile

    But ya, I like it for lowered powered cubes with a +1/+1 counter theme, but not for traditional cubes like most people here manage.
    Certainly one of the higher powered "move a counter onto" payoffs that exist.
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [RNA][CUBE] Biogenic Ooze
    Do you guys think it’s better than Whisperwood Elemental? That’s the comp that seems most apt to me. Grows faster but has less utility.


    I like whisperwood more than almost everyone here heh, and think it's close.
    The wrath protection and ability to sac itself will certainly be missed, and you have to pump more mana into the ooze to make it outpace the whisperwood...

    BUT, the 2 power synergies are a solid bonus.. And if you are able to pump mana into it, it gets out of hand absurdly fast. The upside with Gaea's cradle is definitly a thing.

    Didn't want to bias the thread too much with my initial post, but think it's one of the few cards in this set I can auto-include without (basically) any reservation. The only question I have now is what I want to cut..
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [RNA][CUBE] Cindervines
    This is much more a blue hoser than qasali pridemage ever was...
    I see the qasali pridemage mode as it's backup mode.

    Not saying it's better, but they serve different functions than is obvious imo.
    It's upside is much higher than pridemage, but not sure how that averages out across all matchups and archetypes.
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.