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Magic Market Index for June 8th, 2018
 
Ravnica: The Living Guildpact
 
Magic Market Index for June 1st, 2018
  • posted a message on Planeswalker Deck Tezzeret & Liliana (partial leak)
    Quote from Cardz5000 »
    If they didn't suck, they would get bought out quickly by enfranchised players, and thus would not be available for new players.


    Not if they you know printed to demand... THEN we just get cheaper good cards and a more healthy and competitive environment but who wants that?
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Core Set Promos on Mothership! Reliquary Tower, Guttersnipe, new blue mythic, others
    Wow Nexus is going to suck the value out of the set.... This is easly a $20ish card... which means your box's are effectly $20 cheaper. This means less value to filter though the set. I would almost not be suprised if some stores just sold themselves all the buy a box promos for thier invintory....
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Trading sucks
    Quote from DirkGently »
    Tedious old-man story time.



    2) People are weirdly reticent to trade cards they've just gotten. Even if they have no earthly use for the damn things. Today I sat across from someone while building battlebond who cracked the UR rare partner commanders. At the end of the event, I asked if he'd be interested in trading them, and he decided he preferred to hold onto them. This is a man who openly disdains commander. He plays exclusively competitive constructed and limited formats, where these cards stand no chance in hell of ever appearing. Yet he doesn't want to trade them. And that's not a rare scenario. Many people want to hold onto the cards they opened, even if they have no use for them, even if they are interested in trading in general, even if I'm offering them more value than they're worth, even several times over.

    This has to do with the price spikeing environment, New cards particularity if they hold "potential" are often held for a few months to allow the possibility of that massvie price spike

    3) and to continue on that point...even people who are willing to part with cards often will not trade them unless I have something specific they want. These are cards that have no value to them except as trade fodder, but for some reason they won't accept other, equally trade-fodderable cards of higher value in exchange for them. All I can guess is that they're paranoid that, IF the card they opened should spike in value, they'd feel bad, whereas if the cards I'm offering were to spike they would feel less bad.

    What is a card that is "trade" fodder.... unless you are talking about non played reserve list rares almost every card in print that has value explicly has value because of its play ability. Nothing is "just trade fodder" beucase to be worth past the $5 line it needs SOME degree of playability.

    4) Even for people who are willing to trade and can either find something they want, or are willing to take some reasonable value trade...most of them nickel and dime. Personally I'll happily lose half my trade value if I get something I want, if it's just a couple bucks, but some people are just not satisfied until they've got exactly as much value as you. This wouldn't be a huge problem - I'd just toss in more random value until they shut up - except that often this exacerbates the previous problems, so that I have to find sufficient value of exclusively cards they actually want. In exchange for cards they have no attachment to or use for.

    They have these great trade places you may live them, its called your Local gaming store... they buy most stuff at half value and might even give you more if you ask for trade credit.....


    I feel like the "trading" aspect of the game has morphed into selling and buying them online, losing money on every transaction because the alternative is to waste a ton of time and headache trying to haggle with people who act like you're trying to con them out of their family heirlooms. Is this just the way things go once you become an adult and it's no longer worth your while to haggle over trades for hours? Is this anyone else's experience too?
    Quote from CatParty »
    [quote from="DirkGently »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/794278-trading-sucks?comment=1"]Tedious old-man story time.

    Your right trading is become a relic of the past.... Also carting around massive trade binder





    Quote from DirkGently »





    I've encountered many of the things you're talking about with trading. People often seem to hesitate when I ask if they have trades, and give a "Uh...sure..." and then pull out their binders like it's contraband and police are watching. I often see people with entire pages of chase cards like Snapcaster Mage, almost like they're showing off, but never willing to part with one unless I'm offering another modern/legacy staple as a trade.

    This is hardly unresonable people are allowed to trade for what they want its kind of the point of trading... Frankly speaking people who play legacy tend to not be as active in trading or doing things as quick as a standard player so wanting "stable" rares like legacy staples for legacy staples is far from unwarrented. Frankly standard value drops massively very very quicky and often they may not PLAY other formats. Your insert Hot foil Mythic of the season playset might be worth $500 but in 2 years it likely will not where as the underground sea you are asking for WILL be worth $500+

    As an EDH player, my binder contains mostly one-offs of random cards that I've acquired over the years. There is some significant value in it (Though I recently traded in about a thousand dollars worth to Star City Games), but they're never the cards other people are looking for, and since I'm actually trying to convert my collection into a modern deck or two, I find this very frustrating. People seem to only want to trade for high value chase cards that will maintain their value, and are not willing to accept a bulk trade of five to ten lesser cards though the value is equal.

    To be fair would you? When is the last time you traded someone 200 of their bulk rares for a high value legacy/modern/EDH card where YOU got the bulk?We are people not stores, lots of low value things are harder to get rid of afew high value high demand things.

    On one hand, I do understand this apprehension, but it seems to stem from the general culture around trading. I'm only looking for modern cards at this moment, or sometimes a specific EDH card. Since no one seems to want to trade for "non-essential" cards, I'm not going to get anything out of trading for a card that I don't need, even if there is the possibility that I could use that card to trade with someone else, simply because no one else will trade for them. It seems to have reached a point where you either have a binder full of Jaces, or you have nothing "of value"


    Problem is alot of value has shifted to the top, its harder to move, Back in the old days (very old days like IPA/OTJ/OLS/MD5 era their were alot of $5 cards that suprise suprise were worth $5, the value was shifted more all around. It was like trading four five dollar bills for a $20. More or less even across the board, Now however the market is voltile and what worth small money is likely NOT worth that value. In times of uncertenty people flock to stability, in economy that would be hard mettels and bonds in magic its legacy/reserve list cards.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Reserved List Discussion
    I am still in the process of reading the thread, but my general assessment is that people who are against the reserved list are likely against primarily for the sake of being contrarian.
    ---
    This is a genuine question I am asking in good faith. Why are so many players obsessed over the fact that the reserved list isn't being abolished?

    There are about 600 cards on the Reserved List and over 20,000 unique cards that have been printed.

    That means less than 3% of Magic cards are on the reserved list. Out of that 3%, many of the cards are really crappy cards like Thelonite Monk, Keeper of Tresserhorn, Fungus Elemental and Spirit Shield. Some of these are cards that are so bad, many players would actually complain if Wizards reprinted those cards.

    Yes, it would be nice if I could get an Underground Sea for my Commander deck without having to spend $530.00, but does it prevent me from building a viable Commander deck? Of course not. Are most commander players going to lose a game because they aren't running Breeding Pool instead of Tropical Island? Of course not.

    The thousands of players on Reddit and Blogatog complaining about the reserved list surely can't all be Legacy and Vintage players. The amount of Legacy and Vintage players is so small in relation to other Magic players.

    What decks are you just dying to build with broken cards like Black Lotus? Kitchen table decks? Why not just proxy them? Maybe it's that players are upset cards that are obviously broken like Treachery, Time Walk and Ancestral Recall won't be reprinted.

    Those cards surely wouldn't be legal in formats like Standard or Modern if they were reprinted. Many of the powerful cards on the reserved list are already banned in Commander. I can't seriously believe that all the players that complain about the reserve list are Legacy/Vintage players or players that genuinely want to spend time delving into Legacy and Vintage. I believe that's the case because I have encountered several players at LGS's that complain about the reserve list and have no desire or intention of playing Legacy or Vintage. I honestly believe a lot of players just like to complain because out of the formats and the ways the vast majority of players play Magic the Gathering, one can easily build decks without relying on cards from the reserved list.

    So what is it about the reserved list that drives you mad? What am I missing? What specifically do you want reprinted on the reserved list and why?

    Note: I'm not a proponent or supporter of the reserved list but I don't think my life as a avid Magic enthusiast would be significantly impacted for better or for worse if the reserve list were abolished or maintained. There are numerous cards that aren't on the reserve list that I would prefer to be reprinted over cards that are on the reserved list. For what it's worth, I am a casual/semi-competitive Commander and Modern player that drafts sometimes.


    People want to play other formats, Vinatge (and legacy) have a reputation of being the "most fun" formats to ever exsist, However to play said formats you need to shell out afew grand. Your right in that most of the reserve list is trash that wouldn't even get get a 11th pick in a draft, however the few are NOT trash are the best of the best at what they do. Some so good at what they do even the watered down version are amazing T1 playable in the formats they are legal in (looking at you mox). The other draw of these formats is "they are unchanging" once you got your deck your good for life, no one is going to compain if you play your Stax deck you bought 10 years ago in a tournment today. Some new enteries shake up the format now and again but ultimately MOST decks teirs are less about power and more about popularity of OTHERS decks then the power of any given deck in question. It stright up comes down to people think the price point is too high. They WANT that stability and reliability and high power level but feel that the price of a used car is too much for it. This is made worse by Wizards explicitly NOT wanting people to play eternal formats, it goes against their final interests. This leads to a situation where people want to play the fun high power stable anything goes wild west format while at the same time wizards is actively starving that format since THEY absurdly do NOT want people playing it. The reserve list is wizards weapon to kill the older formats becuase olderformats are trying to kill wizards revenue streems. Once you play an older foramt you (on average) STOP playing standard (the cash cow) and limit playing other formats (you can only play so much).

    You say that you hear people compain about it but have 0 desire to go in to legacy or vintage, I challange that assessment, Offer these people a FREE T1 combo Legacy deck with the only condition being a) you can't sell it and b) you must play at least 1 game a week with it. I bet every single one of said people would take the deck. Cost is what drive them to never play not lack of desire TO play.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Idea: give the "draw" player an additional benefit
    Maybe a choice, Second player can choose +1 mana in their mana pool turn 1 OR draw a card? (note the mana is ONLY good for the first turn.)
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Idea: give the "draw" player an additional benefit
    Their are too many strong ago cards/statagys. You need stronger control cards to make going second more desireable. Alternatively you need to print more cards that impact based on turn order

    Example

    Turn bolt
    RR
    Instant
    Deals 3 damage to target creature or player, IF you are going second you may play turn bolt for 0.


    Goblin of time
    R
    haste
    If you are playing first goblin of time comes in to play with 2 -1/-1 counters
    4/4


    Land of sands
    Land
    T Add 1 to yoru mana pool
    If you are not playing first Land of sands also has
    T Sacrifice land of sands Destroy target land.

    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Cabal Stonghold Channelfireball
    The question is why is this rare? When Coffers was uncommon? Its not like this is better then coffers most of the time but the opposite (most of the time coffers is the better choice), This should be uncommon or should have been made as a better coffers to warrent its boost to rare.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Teferi's Protection (C17)
    can't this also enable combos if you have some extra mana to float example adnausm ?
    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • posted a message on Possible solution to reserve list problem: Reserve list buyback program
    Quote from Keiichi »
    I agree.

    My "Reserved Masters" is the reductio ad absurdum example to illustrate the point. Of course any real reserved list reprint policy would manifest in many sets over the course of many years. As I'm confident you'd agree, this would result in many more players participating in older formats over time while not undermining the confidence the collectors have in the value of their collections.

    It really just boils down to a problem of messaging on Wizards part.


    Except this is what they don't want. They know Legacy, Vintage, EDH (and even Modern) are more divese/fun formats then standard, They are "long term" formats. buy once and done, It sucks people away from standard (their cash cow). I have never met someone who plays legacy competively (or vintage for that matter) that also enjoy and regularly plays T2 Standard. After you have the main stables (duels, fetches, waists, FOW ect) you can basicly switch up decks pretty cheap and still play in a much higher powered setting. Most (not all but most) Eternal decks are fairly modular in that alot of cards are similar across the board, example most blue decks will run brainstorm, Most white decks will run PTE/STP Most Black decks will run tutor or ritual, Their are some that break this mold but only few. Once you are in Legacy/Vintage (and yes now modern too) You don't go back to heavy compeative standard, They want to keep as many people in the standard wheel as long as possible. Standard is where they make money.
    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • posted a message on Powerful in Modern, Weak in Standard
    Quote from RasmusVJS »
    Thanks for the answer! But with me being a bit of a noob, what would count as a combo hate card? What makes Chalice good in Legacy, but bad in Standard? And what is 3 sphere? And what do you think of Necull?


    Its been mentioned already but combo hate is stuff that typicly makes things more expensive to play and in turn make the combo harder to get off, Alternatively Something that HUGELY nerfs artifacts would be applicable ro total number of cards or ability allowed to be in effect in a turn. it also needs to be cheep and preferable colorless (or free).

    So example Legacy has oodles of great 1 CC cards (and 2 cc cards) and decks will often run several of them, this means if you can stick a turn one chalnce of the void for 1 you will invalidate a considerable chunk of someones deck. In standard a) you can't play chalance for 1 on turn 1 (no sol lands) and what cards are both powerful enough and played ofen enough to allow to warrant this cards inclusion, Its not worth it.

    3sphear (or as it is also known trinsphear) is a 3 casting cost artifact that manes everything you play cost 3 or more. if you would pay less then then by ANY source you instead pay 3. In standard who cares You pay 3 to make your opponent pay a minimum of three for their stuff, you can get this online turn 3 big deal, In legacy you can do it turn 1-2. Turn 1 3sphear is often as good as a turn 1 "take an extra turn". Since unless you are playing against decks that can ALSO generate 3 mana turn one they can't do squat. I have had burn players scoop to turn 1 3sphear.
    Posted in: Custom Card Creation
  • posted a message on Powerful in Modern, Weak in Standard
    To be honest their isn't alot of things that fit that (maybe combo hate cards? standard rarely ever has combo), IF you wish to expand it to Vintage/Legacy its easy Stuff like Chalice of the Void and Things that add extra costs to spells that are cheap (like 3 sphear), are all prime examples.
    Posted in: Custom Card Creation
  • posted a message on Provably Fair Repack Idea
    Repacks are a waist of money, you never get the good cards unless you REALLY buy alot (more value then the card is) no one wants to give away stuff for free. Its a dream that never pans out. Their is no fair repack system because the system is inheritly faulty. The only fair one is to say what is IN the repack (the specific repack) you are buying.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on The Next Non-rotating format speculation thread.
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Quote from idSurge »
    Modern is as sustainable as they choose to make it, exactly because as you say there is no reserved list.

    I'm not going to have to break out the list of Standard cards making an impact on Modern am I? You dont need to reprint Bob in a core set to 'sustain Modern' I mean the simple reality is that Modern IS self sustaining. No format brings in more viewers, nor has as much interest.

    Arena is training wheels Magic, thats fine.


    I'm not aiming this at you, just I see this statement from a lot of people who forgot how the game was when modern was still young. Yes, they do have to print Bob eventually, because they can only create so many permutations of cards using the same design space. It's not about if cards are making an impact on modern from standard, it's how many there are and what cards also pair with it to make that impact. You can show me the entire list if you want from Kaladesh to now, it isn't going to change the reality of the statement. :p

    You're in a format where just one card like Hollow One causes Burning Inquiry, Goblin Lore, BloodGhast, Blackcleave Cliffs, and Collective Brutality to all jump in demand rapidly, and that was one deck. Crap, missed Leyline of the Void. Then wizards only reprints two of those cards and reprints a low demand low supply land cycle.

    If wizards did a better job reprinting cards there wouldn't be a single complaint about modern, but they provably can't. For goodness sakes three of those cards are commons / uncommons and this is just one example.

    Here is how they "fix" this situation: have people get IR codes for points per booster pack and have a trade in system that lets people trade points for rares and mythics. Probably one booster box for a single mythic across anything or two rares across anything. They let people redeem MTGO collections (or used to), might as well let people do it for boosters. But that is going off subject.


    Both Pokemon and Yugioh both have redemption systems from booster packs. (I beleave neopets did as well) Its not a new idea just a good one that should be utilzed, something as easy a copy of everythign in the pack (say a code on the tolken card) would do it.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Do you miss 'Counterspell'?
    ah yes good magic, where you had to interact with yoru opponent, bluffing was part of the game, holding extra lands in hand (both to prevent land and mass land destruction and counter bluff) yes I do. Would love to see counterspell reprinted (or better yet inproved apon I mean creatures keep getting power up after power up, would it be so hard to have UU1 counter target spell, return target permanent to its owners hand?) :p
    Posted in: Opinions & Polls
  • posted a message on Brawl - the format
    Quote from DirkGently »
    Quote from draftguy2 »
    I can amortize my commander deck over 5 to 10 years, same as my vintage or legacy deck, I can't do that to a standard deck just a mear 2 years (or 18 months or whatever they have for the new rotation) Once you realize you can play and learn the in and out of your deck over that time period it makes more sense to get the one time higher cost. You get a higher degree of master and better play experience when people are forced to "invest" in their cards. I am not going to spend $1000 on my deck and NOT now how to play it the best I possibly can against each match up. As for your "its not fun" comment, that depends on what crowd you are in, people I play with would disagree with you and I am guessing the people you play with would disagee with me. I would argue that the market agrees with my point of view however, If we assume that most people play magic because they enjoy playing magic, That demand is one of the major indicators of value (for anything not reserve list or very early printing) its simple the cards I would list as "good cards" more often then not will hold value, which means they are played, which means they are fun. People would not play "unfun" cards in a game they play for fun. (granted their may be a small % who only play for prizes or money but I would guess they are the minority)

    As someone who has taught new people to play commander. I don't really have a problem with that its just a learning curve and most people who are interested in playing mtg are smart enough to pick it up pretty fast. I disagree, take out say all the reserve list cards and foils from that list and tell me how that value looks. Reserve list is a problem for every format it infects and foils just add value for sake of adding value. I would also bet that is not all in one deck but a collection that incorporates several.
    How long HAVE you been playing the same deck exactly? Outside of a few outliers I usually get bored of any given deck within a month or two. 2 years sounds like an eternity.

    If you want to master every matchup and know all the specific in and outs, why don't you play a different format where that's the actual goal? Commander is intended to be social, played well but not to the point of memorizing every deck, which shouldn't be possible given the available variety that's core to the format.

    Of course more powerful cards are more valuable. People like good cards because they like to WIN. Certainly in competitive formats which drive up most of the prices, but in commander too. If someone played a modern burn deck with bolts, and a standard deck with shocks, and they won more with the standard deck - I bet they'd like shock more. People just like what wins them games. If the power level of the format is lower, they'll like whatever low-powered stuff helped them win.

    Of course, it is cool to do cool things, and running grizzly bears into each other all day isn't very cool. So having a greater variety of effects that can occasionally create cool synergies is worth having, and I can sympathize with someone who wants to stick to commander only because they want to be able to doubling-season their planeswalkers or use mana doublers with geth to put their opponents entire library into play or whatever. But bolt vs shock is such a bad example.

    I already said I have the cheapest version of every card (or at least close - I've splurged on a few black borders if it's only a few bucks, and I've got some foils of newer cards that I opened as prerelease promos and never replaced with nonfoil, etc). And yes, it's my collection from which I build my decks, not just a single deck (although it is a singleton collection, so only one of each card). But just looking at an optimal 5C manabase, that's going to set you back over 2K easily, probably closer to 3. By comparison I bet I could build a pretty bang-up gishath deck for like 50 bucks.

    Can you see why it's a little ridiculous to claim that BRAWL is the expensive format here? You'd have to keep playing the same deck until the heat death of the universe to get better bang for your buck out of commander.


    Their is very little way your mana base is $3,000 unless you are using duels and reserve list cards, (which I gave exemption too as Reserve list is frankly a bane on us all). Particularity using the cheapest of each version, Fetches and shocks ring in at what an average of $20 each? at 10 of each thats $400 Even if we double it throwin in other cheapies like city of brass and other multi color lands your not even at $1000 yet let alone 3.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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