Caught some of your stream yesterday, really enjoying this deck even though its getting crushed by aggro - Steel-leaf champions, UR prowess and mono-r aggro are everywhere at the minute. Any thoughts on how to adapt to an aggressive meta without diluting the game-plan? I've moved to two aetherflux main-deck, but it's still a struggle vs. decks that are swinging for lethal on turn 4/5.
Hey, thanks for dropping by the stream and here as well. Playing 2 Reservoirs in the main is as far as I'd probably go. If you're getting beaten by non-hasty aggro decks then moving to 4 Expertises and 3 Engineers is something you could consider, but I hate the idea as this deck has serious issues with flooding, and Engineer is crucial in alleviating that problem.
I'm still figuring out these MUs, this deck can draw pretty well or horribly bad, and figuring out where the average lies can be tough.
I played a few practice games and I don't quite understand a few card choices. Why only 2 Barals mainboard? Being able to use mox as a colored source instead of colorless greatly alleviates some of the pressure on the lands. Also, only 1 Aetherflux mainboard feels really awful if they have any sort of way to remove the first because the only way to win the game from there are baral/bird beats and finding a Commit and dig down to it again.
Also, is there any consideration for Icy Manipulator or Pacification Array? I appreciate that the deck is really tightly bound to its gameplan, but it seems like the gameplan against mono-R or RB aggro is to scoop up your cards threateningly and go home.
I posted this earlier as well, but my most recent list plays 3 Barals and 1 Bird. I cut down to 1 Reservoir because it's worst card to see in your opener, and I found out that once this version of the deck goes off it goes off "too" well. Once you start to combo off you'll go through the entire deck, so just one Reservoir is enough to win. The second one is in the board for the Abrade-MUs.
Icy Manipulator and Array suffer from the same problem as djinn - this deck isn't set up to play fair magic. Adding one or two average interactive cards doesn't help at all, since we're always better of spending all the mana we have on setting the combo or comboing off.
Remaining mono-blue, why not Zhalfirin Void as a 1 or 2-of? Also, Glimmer of Genius instead of a Reverse Engineer or two? Digs deeper as an instant and is cheaper with Improvise.
I have considered all of these cards, but splashing for them is far away from worth it. Glimmer is nice, but Engineer's value comes from exactly that you don't need to have statuary in play to cast it on the cheap.
Manabase can't handle additional colorless lands, even the one fair is pushing it.
Unwind is actually a nice suggestion - it could really help this deck go off in the control MUs. I'll try it in place of negate and maybe even one of the Rebukes.
Should definitely be bringing in surgical for both storm and KCI, no reason to keep bolt in- you're not going to burn them out quick enough for it to be more relevant than potentially blowing them out with a well targeted surgical.
Bolt is mainly to answer Trawler. Still, it's possible Bolt could be cut for Surgicals. I'm undecided on the matter.
Big Grixis control fan, but I do have to point out something...Just watched the KCI matchup where you ignored the one person in chat telling you to board in surgical v. KCI. Not sure how new you are to playing this list, but when a combo deck is ALL IN on one card, especially one you can counter like KCI, surgical is your best card after the counterspell. I might have boarded out AV instead of bolt, not sure...but surgical is made for this matchup and KCI is weak to artifact hate AND grave hate.
I will watch more of the stream, but I was disappointed you defended your decision to not board it in at 3:24:00 when I think it would have been a chance to level up and acknowledge that “Kaisermagus” was right and you were wrong.
EDIT: oh god, and then you didn’t board it in v. Storm?! Why the *&$#@% are you running a graveyard hate card like surgical if you aren’t going to bring it in versus...um,, I dunno, graveyard decks?! At 3:35:30, you defend keeping in AV for its “mana-efficiency”. Since surgical costs zero, it’s the most mana-efficient card in your deck! Not sure that AV is usually a winning line against a turn 3-4 combo deck that’s on the play, mana-efficient or not. Seriously though, if surgical doesn’t come in versus these two graveyard decks AND you refuse to listen to the chat’s informed opinion, you should run two cards you WILL play in your sideboard that have broader applications.
Hey, I appreciate you checking out the VOD and giving your comments on my decisions. I'm not sure whether you genuinely want to know, but I've played Grixis decks since DTK came out, and control a few months before SOI did.
When discussing card selections, keep in mind that my deck's composition is different compared to someobe elses list. Not saying that comes into play in these scenarios but anyway. I think it would have good to bring Surgical in against KCI, but as I mentioned in the video, I didn't find the cuts. Maybe it could have been two bolts, or bolt and AV, not sure. It's not something I'd freak over though. KCI doesn't usually bin its own namesake card, so I would have had to already counter the spell, which makes the card somewhat suspect. I'm sure I've boarded the card in in the past, but I also want to experiment with things. I was reluctant to cut on the bolts, since in the past I've lost horribly to KCI for not respecting Trawler enough.
As for Storm, we can make a deal: if you're in the chat while I get paired against Storm, I'll bring my Surgicals in. Otherwise I'm probably sticking with my current plan.
Storm and KCI are both fast on paper, but usually these games tend to drag on since people respect counters. AV is quite good in these MUs.
As for MUs where I do bring in Surgicals, here's what I came up with:
Ad Nauseam
Dredge
Grishoalbrand
Tron
Living End
Lantern
(EDIT: probably anything with Vengevine)
Thanks for the comment. Are you sure you're not looking at someone elses list there? I have more countermagic in my MD than the average grixis player with 2 snares, 2 Leaks and 2 Remands on top of the 3 Cryptics.
Our decks play a lot of the same cards, but the fact yours isn't built around Outcome makes it a completely different archetype. I recommend you to simply to make your own thread!
[card]Key to the City[/c] I get in that situation; it lets you draw cards anytime you've used inspire to pay for anything, whether or not the cast spell was countered. I could see that being very useful in a drawn-out control MU.
I just have a bit of trouble picturing Treasure Map being all that great in any MU - I'm probably missing something. I mean, unlike something like Glimmer of Genius, you can't use inspire for the scry costs and it takes more mana overall and a significant turn investment - you can only draw one card per turn when it finally transforms. In conjunction with Spell Swindle it's more powerful, sure, but still. On top of that, it costs 2 mana that you can't inspire for, which makes a bad target for bouncing with Paradoxical Outcome - aside from the fact that you'd lose the counters. It *is* another artifact for The Antiquities War, but that stops being the case when it transforms.
Seriously, what's the upside? What am I missing? Are you just using it to slowly find the necessary cards, then use the extra mana to play Aetherflux Reservoir on the turn you go off?
The reason I stopped using Key in the past was that I much preferred Map. Sure, Key is great for card draw, but the scry for one is also very vsluable for making sure we hit our land drops. The thing flips very fast -three activations isn't much at all- and when it does you gain a mana neutral extra draw or a huge mana advantage, whichever you need. The treasures you gain play extremely well with (obviously) improvise, and Karn and The Antiquities war as well. On top of that card ramps you up in mana just by virtue of transforming into a land. Even though you need to invest a lot of mana into the card initially, it easily pays itself back in the end. Key is a different thing - it's purely a mana sink, and loses to Map in that department.
EDIT: this isn't to say that Key would be completely inferior to map. If you can afford to use the mana to draw cards off of Key, then Key does gain you a bigger CA than Map would. The card is definitely at its best you have access to 3-4 Rebukes. The ability to give unblockable could also be massive with Karn's construct tokens.
Hey everyone, I just felt like promoting myself a little here now. If you're interested in watching grixis control streams, I'm planning on streaming every Modern Challenge I can join (they launch at 15:00 UTC each Saturday, in case you didn't know). I can't play in the one that's coming up though, but after that. I'm also going to stream my league runs during the week when I have free evenings, starting probably somewhere between 10:00 - 15:00 UTC until 00:00 UTC. So if you're interested in stuff like that, drop me a follow, my username on twitch is Tiemuuuu.
Also, if you're truly interested in my sideboarding ideas, you can always check my VODs at twitch and skip to the relevant parts. Of course this can be a little too time consuming for you, and I definitely don't mind replying to questions here.
I would be tempted to add 2 Zahid, Djinn of the Lamp in to SB as alt wincon to help through heavy artifact hate and damping sphere. I really like the build
Thanks mate. I have consider Djinn myself, but the problem is our deck is horribly weak at playing fair magic, and I doubt the card is good enough to truly stop mono red and white decks on their tracks. This is why I trust and use cards like Efficient Construction and The Antiquities Wars instead. They don't simply present a solid threat, they are hard to interactive with -threats that will absolutely win the game, and they are also value engines on top of that.
Your observation about the maindeck being tight is very correct, and it is indeed hard to find cuts for cards to bring in, which is why we board minimally.
Playing two Barals and siding the third one was somewhat an experiment. I found myself boardin the Assistants out quite often because they are the least relevant card and are very weak to cards like Ballista ang the ping-goblin, so I moved the third Baral to main again. What you said about the obvious sideboard strategies holds true as well. When I'm bringing the River's Rebukes in, my plan is to cut the one assistant and one Expertise or Commit//Memory, depending on the MU and whether I'm on the play or draw.
Now that I added Karn to my board I no longer have the Key, but I could see myself working that back in as well.
This deck's plan a is good enough, but against the most controlling strategies we need to increase our threat density at the expense of the do-nothing enablers in order to not get out-grinded, at which point our alternative wincons become appealing, as they require less cheap fluff and less succesfully resolved spells for any one turn. My standard boarding plan for these kind of MUs is:
This is just a rough draft. I haven't been able to fit Efficient Cobstruction into this puzzle yet - it could be that I should cut obe Commit, Baral, Ornithopter, or Mox. Efficient Construction is probably at its best against Grixis Energy, as they have both Abrade and a somewhat fast clock.
The extra Reservoir is for MUs where the opponent plays Abrades, and using Memory to shuffle it back to our Library is too cumbersome. Basically against Mono Red and other aggressive decks.
I can't give anyone a specific sideboard plan yet, since I'm still learning myself and there are dozens of archetypes being played in comp leagues currently.
asking how to beat Abrade is a pretty broad question. Sometimes you can do something about the card, sometimes you can't. It's totally match-up dependent.
Hey, thanks for dropping by the stream and here as well. Playing 2 Reservoirs in the main is as far as I'd probably go. If you're getting beaten by non-hasty aggro decks then moving to 4 Expertises and 3 Engineers is something you could consider, but I hate the idea as this deck has serious issues with flooding, and Engineer is crucial in alleviating that problem.
I'm still figuring out these MUs, this deck can draw pretty well or horribly bad, and figuring out where the average lies can be tough.
1 Inventors' Fair
4 Glint-Nest Crane
4 Ornithopter
3 Baral, Chief of Compliance
1 Artificer's Assistant
4 Paradoxical Outcome
4 Reverse Engineer
1 Aetherflux Reservoir
4 Prophetic Prism
4 Renegade Map
4 Inspiring Statuary
2 Commit/Memory
3 Baral's Expertise
4 Mox Amber
2 River's Rebuke
3 Metallic Rebuke
1 Efficient Construction
2 Treasure Map
1 Commit/Memory
1 The Antiquities War
1 Aetherflux Reservoir
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Key to the City
1 Unwind
1 Field of Ruin
deciding when to board Metallic Rebuke in is a tough decision. If you have found a plan that works for you then keep rocking it.
I posted this earlier as well, but my most recent list plays 3 Barals and 1 Bird. I cut down to 1 Reservoir because it's worst card to see in your opener, and I found out that once this version of the deck goes off it goes off "too" well. Once you start to combo off you'll go through the entire deck, so just one Reservoir is enough to win. The second one is in the board for the Abrade-MUs.
Icy Manipulator and Array suffer from the same problem as djinn - this deck isn't set up to play fair magic. Adding one or two average interactive cards doesn't help at all, since we're always better of spending all the mana we have on setting the combo or comboing off.
I have considered all of these cards, but splashing for them is far away from worth it. Glimmer is nice, but Engineer's value comes from exactly that you don't need to have statuary in play to cast it on the cheap.
Manabase can't handle additional colorless lands, even the one fair is pushing it.
Unwind is actually a nice suggestion - it could really help this deck go off in the control MUs. I'll try it in place of negate and maybe even one of the Rebukes.
I have, but liked the other cards more
Bolt is mainly to answer Trawler. Still, it's possible Bolt could be cut for Surgicals. I'm undecided on the matter.
Hey, I appreciate you checking out the VOD and giving your comments on my decisions. I'm not sure whether you genuinely want to know, but I've played Grixis decks since DTK came out, and control a few months before SOI did.
When discussing card selections, keep in mind that my deck's composition is different compared to someobe elses list. Not saying that comes into play in these scenarios but anyway. I think it would have good to bring Surgical in against KCI, but as I mentioned in the video, I didn't find the cuts. Maybe it could have been two bolts, or bolt and AV, not sure. It's not something I'd freak over though. KCI doesn't usually bin its own namesake card, so I would have had to already counter the spell, which makes the card somewhat suspect. I'm sure I've boarded the card in in the past, but I also want to experiment with things. I was reluctant to cut on the bolts, since in the past I've lost horribly to KCI for not respecting Trawler enough.
As for Storm, we can make a deal: if you're in the chat while I get paired against Storm, I'll bring my Surgicals in. Otherwise I'm probably sticking with my current plan.
Storm and KCI are both fast on paper, but usually these games tend to drag on since people respect counters. AV is quite good in these MUs.
As for MUs where I do bring in Surgicals, here's what I came up with:
Ad Nauseam
Dredge
Grishoalbrand
Tron
Living End
Lantern
(EDIT: probably anything with Vengevine)
The reason I stopped using Key in the past was that I much preferred Map. Sure, Key is great for card draw, but the scry for one is also very vsluable for making sure we hit our land drops. The thing flips very fast -three activations isn't much at all- and when it does you gain a mana neutral extra draw or a huge mana advantage, whichever you need. The treasures you gain play extremely well with (obviously) improvise, and Karn and The Antiquities war as well. On top of that card ramps you up in mana just by virtue of transforming into a land. Even though you need to invest a lot of mana into the card initially, it easily pays itself back in the end. Key is a different thing - it's purely a mana sink, and loses to Map in that department.
EDIT: this isn't to say that Key would be completely inferior to map. If you can afford to use the mana to draw cards off of Key, then Key does gain you a bigger CA than Map would. The card is definitely at its best you have access to 3-4 Rebukes. The ability to give unblockable could also be massive with Karn's construct tokens.
EDIT: you can see I've played in a few recent challenges: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/Tiemuuu
EDIT: in fact I streamed the last challenge, modern gameplay starts at 1:30 or so: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/252835610
Thanks mate. I have consider Djinn myself, but the problem is our deck is horribly weak at playing fair magic, and I doubt the card is good enough to truly stop mono red and white decks on their tracks. This is why I trust and use cards like Efficient Construction and The Antiquities Wars instead. They don't simply present a solid threat, they are hard to interactive with -threats that will absolutely win the game, and they are also value engines on top of that.
Playing two Barals and siding the third one was somewhat an experiment. I found myself boardin the Assistants out quite often because they are the least relevant card and are very weak to cards like Ballista ang the ping-goblin, so I moved the third Baral to main again. What you said about the obvious sideboard strategies holds true as well. When I'm bringing the River's Rebukes in, my plan is to cut the one assistant and one Expertise or Commit//Memory, depending on the MU and whether I'm on the play or draw.
Now that I added Karn to my board I no longer have the Key, but I could see myself working that back in as well.
This deck's plan a is good enough, but against the most controlling strategies we need to increase our threat density at the expense of the do-nothing enablers in order to not get out-grinded, at which point our alternative wincons become appealing, as they require less cheap fluff and less succesfully resolved spells for any one turn. My standard boarding plan for these kind of MUs is:
-1 Mox
-1 Ornithopter
-1 Assistant
-1 Baral
-3 Expertise
-1 Statuary
+2 Map
+3 Rebuke
+1 Karn
+1 Negate
+1 Antiquities Wars
This is just a rough draft. I haven't been able to fit Efficient Cobstruction into this puzzle yet - it could be that I should cut obe Commit, Baral, Ornithopter, or Mox. Efficient Construction is probably at its best against Grixis Energy, as they have both Abrade and a somewhat fast clock.
The extra Reservoir is for MUs where the opponent plays Abrades, and using Memory to shuffle it back to our Library is too cumbersome. Basically against Mono Red and other aggressive decks.
I can't give anyone a specific sideboard plan yet, since I'm still learning myself and there are dozens of archetypes being played in comp leagues currently.
well, here's one example: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/253572295?t=03h37m29s
asking how to beat Abrade is a pretty broad question. Sometimes you can do something about the card, sometimes you can't. It's totally match-up dependent.