Tried playing a second league today and got there.
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(MU:s were Jeskai Control, BU Midrange, RB Aggro, Mono R, RB Aggro. Today's list: https://puu.sh/AR1Q3/51c1c3ceae.png)
Are there some matchups that we really want to shore up, and if so how? I think there's a consensus that lots of people think tron is a bad matchup for example. If that's the case, why aren't people allowing for more sideboard cards? Typically I haven't seen more than 3 cards against tron. Usually people are playing 3 fulminators, or they're playing a couple ceremonious rejection.
Tron's MU against us (and other control decks) has become a kind of a meme. +2 years ago you could have said that tron is the Achilles Heel of control since there simply weren't as many degenerate decks around. Tron's label as *the* bad MU has passed on to this day, but it's a lot less warranted. Decks like E-tron and before that Bant Eldrazi are bigger obstacles to begin with, but luckily those decks have dropped in popularity. There are also many challenging MU's that are extremely close, like Dredge, KCI and Hollow One. Today's premier aggro deck Humans is also very difficult to beat, even though we are strategically advantaged. My point is, Tron isn't the only hard deck to beat, and we need to squeeze advantages against most archetypes, even the ones where we should be traditionally advantaged.
This kind of list isn't without its merits, but the question becomes why not play a true control finisher? Something like Teferi.
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I can't wait to try out Sai, Master Thopterist. The card is a strong defensive play and an alternative wincon against control, while also preventing flooding.
also, fulminator mage is imo just such an insane sideboard card with huge versatility. its not as good against tron and valakut, but it actually puts them down a land, and its just vastly more versatile and good in so many other matchups.
I don't really see the point of lamenting how Grixis doesn't have access to Teferi. Grixis is already in a great spot in this metagame! As for the new Bolas card, it looks sweet and strong enough in fair MUs, but also completely replaceable by other 4-drops like Kalitas, Jace, Olivia Voldaren, P&K Nalaar etc.
Being able to remove ulamog hardly counts as an upside in my books. I know this doesn't come as a surprise to anyone, but the MU is won or lost depending on whether we manage to disrupt their mana or not. Maybe if the metagame was flooded with e-tron and affinity I'd consider playing the card. Right now though there is hardly any eldrazi running around (what a blessing).
@Tiemuuu: I've seen you playing this list for quite some time now, grats on your repetitively good finishes. How has the relatively low land count been for you? Ever failed to get on mana in time? I also notice your high count on cantrips (SV, AV, TS), ever felt that it might be too much air?
Thanks in advance
Sorry for beating a dead horse here, but 22 lands and 8 cantrips were the industry standard until the modern pro tour. Sonetimes you need to dig for lands at the expense of not being able to cast other spells, but on the offset you flood less and find better interaction more often, especially post SB. Cantrips are probably fairly neutral in terms of improving the deck.
@Tiemuuu
How are your match ups against tron? I've been losing to tron so many times in these lasts months that I'm just considering forfeiting the goddamn matchup.
I usually have a good time against aggro, combo and midrange decks. On the other hand, I've got abysmal matchups against Blood moons and Urza towers.
didn't notice this comment until now. I don't have a recorded MU win%, but regular tron is something like 45-55 I'd say. Definitely an easier MU than decks like e-tron, living end, burn, bogles, ponza etc. I actually had a (somewhat lucky) 2-0 win against Tron in my latest 5-0 run. I was running hotter than the sun and didn't drop a single game: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1144475#online
BTW, if you have time, could you make a deck name change suggestion so that the archetype gets renamed into Grixis Control? Most of the lists that are called Delver are just Control lists and it bugs me to no end.
dude i love your list. i've been running something very similar, literally the only 4 cards that are different: your 3x AV and 1x Young Pyromancer are 2x Jace and 2x Azcanta in my 60. which means that your curve is quite a bit lower. but what's your reasoning to prefer AV over Search for Azcanta? do you think the meta is just too fast for it?
Thanks. Yeah, Search gives you infinite cards, but AV has notable upsides: I gives cards card at a much lower mana investment, opponent can't discard it if you're on the play, it can't get Abrupt Decayed/Maelstrom Pulsed, it can't get Fielded/GQ'd, and it doesn't get affected by grave hate like Leyline or Relic - the last point is far from trivial.
EDIT: sometimes I play a 2-1 split of AV and Search.
@Tiemuuu
How are your match ups against tron? I've been losing to tron so many times in these lasts months that I'm just considering forfeiting the goddamn matchup.
I usually have a good time against aggro, combo and midrange decks. On the other hand, I've got abysmal matchups against Blood moons and Urza towers.
didn't notice this comment until now. I don't have a recorded MU win%, but regular tron is something like 45-55 I'd say. Definitely an easier MU than decks like e-tron, living end, burn, bogles, ponza etc. I actually had a (somewhat lucky) 2-0 win against Tron in my latest 5-0 run. I was running hotter than the sun and didn't drop a single game: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1144475#online
BTW, if you have time, could you make a deck name change suggestion so that the archetype gets renamed into Grixis Control? Most of the lists that are called Delver are just Control lists and it bugs me to no end.
I was going to table the request until next week, but given the comment on meta: Does anyone have any good/recent SB guides. If not, should we as a forum try and put down a foundation?
This would be kind of useless for at least two reasons:
1) everyone plays their own list with their own sideboards. Deck composition affects your general strategy.
2) metagame and decks evolve constantly. There are about 50 viable archetypes that are trying out new tech. A sb guide could become obsolete in a week's time.
Field sounds sketchy, but still a lot better than something like Keranos, which was a card people actually used to board (I have always thought that was wrong). I can't imagibe maindecking the card, though.
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(MU:s were Jeskai Control, BU Midrange, RB Aggro, Mono R, RB Aggro. Today's list: https://puu.sh/AR1Q3/51c1c3ceae.png)
I decided to upload a video where I go over the Challenge match replays, live stream probably on next Saturday: https://youtu.be/l-_hoJl221k
List: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1174222#online
MU:s:
1:58 5c Humans
24:47 Mono Red Prison
32:36 Jeskai Control
46:14 Mono-G Tron
54:37 Mardu pyromancer
1:06:22 Jeskai Saheeli
1:26:00 Mono-U Tron
Tron's MU against us (and other control decks) has become a kind of a meme. +2 years ago you could have said that tron is the Achilles Heel of control since there simply weren't as many degenerate decks around. Tron's label as *the* bad MU has passed on to this day, but it's a lot less warranted. Decks like E-tron and before that Bant Eldrazi are bigger obstacles to begin with, but luckily those decks have dropped in popularity. There are also many challenging MU's that are extremely close, like Dredge, KCI and Hollow One. Today's premier aggro deck Humans is also very difficult to beat, even though we are strategically advantaged. My point is, Tron isn't the only hard deck to beat, and we need to squeeze advantages against most archetypes, even the ones where we should be traditionally advantaged.
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I can't wait to try out Sai, Master Thopterist. The card is a strong defensive play and an alternative wincon against control, while also preventing flooding.
just echoing this sentiment
Sorry for beating a dead horse here, but 22 lands and 8 cantrips were the industry standard until the modern pro tour. Sonetimes you need to dig for lands at the expense of not being able to cast other spells, but on the offset you flood less and find better interaction more often, especially post SB. Cantrips are probably fairly neutral in terms of improving the deck.
Thanks. Yeah, Search gives you infinite cards, but AV has notable upsides: I gives cards card at a much lower mana investment, opponent can't discard it if you're on the play, it can't get Abrupt Decayed/Maelstrom Pulsed, it can't get Fielded/GQ'd, and it doesn't get affected by grave hate like Leyline or Relic - the last point is far from trivial.
EDIT: sometimes I play a 2-1 split of AV and Search.
didn't notice this comment until now. I don't have a recorded MU win%, but regular tron is something like 45-55 I'd say. Definitely an easier MU than decks like e-tron, living end, burn, bogles, ponza etc. I actually had a (somewhat lucky) 2-0 win against Tron in my latest 5-0 run. I was running hotter than the sun and didn't drop a single game: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1144475#online
BTW, if you have time, could you make a deck name change suggestion so that the archetype gets renamed into Grixis Control? Most of the lists that are called Delver are just Control lists and it bugs me to no end.
This would be kind of useless for at least two reasons:
1) everyone plays their own list with their own sideboards. Deck composition affects your general strategy.
2) metagame and decks evolve constantly. There are about 50 viable archetypes that are trying out new tech. A sb guide could become obsolete in a week's time.