I'm a server, and what you describe is accurate. We take your order, we put it into the computer, we refill your drinks, we clear the table, and we check in on you and repeat all of the previous for an average of 3 other tables at the same time. The only thing I don't do for my position is cook the food. I bus the tables too, and on busy nights I'm the one grabbing alcohol from the bar and pouring the drinks.
I usually feel pretty busy tbh and sometimes stressed because I'm having to do a lot of moving around and making sure everyone is happy. To say we only deserve $2.83 is a bit of a stretch. Have you ever been a server or tried to live off of minimum wage? I would understand a little more if you had any insight into this, but I can't take you seriously when you say we deserve less than minimum wage, but have never done what we do.
I realize this is a hot topic for a lot of people, because a lot of people feel like the costs should be made up for by the restaurants. That's actually how it works in Texas. I'm not sure how anywhere else works though. I make $4.25 / hr and am guarunteed minimum wage of $7.25 / hr. Some nights are that slow for us, so I'm sure there are a couple of paychecks that have been based off of minimum-wage. It isn't fun.
I work at a country club. We are expected to know the 1,500+ members last names and favorite drinks. Honestly I don't know the 1,500 but for any of our regulars I try my hardest to remember and find out who they are and what they like so we can customize thier experience. We don't get tipped but on rare occasions. We do however add 20% gratuity to every check. One drunk, wealthy member, told me we are overpaid. This was after telling me he steals things from the club. Towels, equipment, etc and his stealing was justified because of our tips.
Lets just say I'm glad we get 20% gratuity where I work. I could see both sides of the argument for how we should get paid, but I can't see anyone's POV when they say we deserve minimum wage or less. It can be a lot of work.
Honestly, I've only worked 1 minimum wage job and that was for less than a week. I've worked quite a few construction jobs, I was paid 16/hour to (literally) shovel mud. I worked 7 12 hour days through the summer on 3-4 week stretches doing some really repugnant things no one else wanted to do and was paid well for it. I also went to school for 10 years.
The reason I weigh your job so low is that it is neither physically or mentally difficult. You require no technical skill or quality to perform your job. I don't get a tip from the parents when a student gets an A and understands calculus. I didn't get tipped when I was a programmer. I didn't get tipped when measuring heat exchange for a nuclear reactor. I didn't get tipped when shoveling mud.
I don't tip. I live in PA, I know they make $2.83/hour, I know the cost of food is subsidized through cheap labor. I don't care. They're making $2.83 to write down an order, let someone else prepare it, and then walk from the kitchen to me without dropping and occasionally refilling my drink. I feel that wage adequately reflects your value.
I'm not sure why wait staff feels they deserve anything more than minimum wage/waiters wage
Needs more Telepathy. I've had to defend this card in policeman decks many times so I'll just quote myself.
Different deck but pretty much the same idea. I like to think of it as deputizing all my opponents. They get to act as mini policemen to make sure nobody wins (except me of course).
Telepathy? I don't know about you, but I hate playing with my hand up and I'm guessing most other players would rather not play with their hand up either. The only thing I've seen from Telepathy is that person going out first because everyone hates on them and they get focused down. I mean, defend away, and you certainly have different experiences. Just relating my experience thus far.
People shouldnt be punished cause it took you a week to 2 weeks to see it. if you dont see it in 4 days Then you arent looking, no one reported it, and no body cared. Just cause you decided to care later on doesnt mean crap. Letting you infract someone after 4 days basic allows you to dig up dirt to infract when you otherwise wouldnt be looking anyway. Warnings are fine cause warnings are THAT warnings. but if you missed it you missed it. Tough luck.
Probably the most asinine statement I've read here yet. It's a close call, but saying that just because you posted something you shouldn't have. If you break a rule today, and they don't catch it until next month, you still broke the rule, regardless of time frame. This is taking into account the rule existed at the time. I don't see why you feel there should be a "get away with it" time frame. It seems like you just want to serve your own desires to be obtuse and trollish rather than actually serving to further the community.
Rule Broken = Punishment. Why are people so opposed to this?
Please note that I don't think every infraction caught a couple days later should be subject to back-dating. Just ones where a suspension comes from it, because I don't think it's fair that people have to wait for two weeks to see if they get suspended just because the mods are having a powwow thread about it in the lounge. That time should count if they are eventually suspended -- it's not their fault if staff can't make up their mind.
Why should that count towards suspended time if they're not actually suspended yet? That's like saying penalties leavened should take into account processing time, which nowhere in any penal system I'm aware of is the case unless you were detained during that processing time.
I'm not sure I grasp the reasoning behind tweaking something that doesn't appear to be broken or in need of reform. Can you give a detailed, descriptive reasoning behind this being changed from its current form? The OP and subsequent agreements with it are cloudy and offer no insight into the reasoning behind the request.
Watching the curiosity land was great. There was a forum a few months back discussing the landing process that a lot of physics and aeronautics professionals were invited to. I was lucky enough to be visiting a fellow professor who also worked for CSA in Hawaii and previously worked for NASA. We ended up going, the technical detail they went into there was amazing. Sidenote: CSA built a large portion of that craft for the US, as they have done with all of our drones/bots.
I've used the dollar version quite recently when I was staying with a roommate at a conference and hadn't packed my razor. It felt like a dollar razor. Didn't do a poor job but there's no substitute for a quality straight razor.
... from why you think more stringent moderation would help?
Not speaking for NS, obviously. You only really need to look at the elitistjerks forums to realize how great strict moderation can be. EJ during WoW's theorycrafting prime was a hugely trafficked site that has some tie your nuts in a knot moderation. Gurgthock realized very early on that the internet does not function as a democracy, and EJ has been forum-drama free for years. Probably the best community nearly anywhere on the web.
Along the same lines, but more lenient, is the BDFL in the OSS movement. There's usually a group that acts as the board, but there is always one iron fist sitting up top should it be required.
I read this and I immediately understood you were 100% right. How arrogant of me to have the nerve of wasting people's time and demanding that an unjust decision be reversed. My humblest apologies.
Justice is a completely subjective and arbitrarily assigned word. Just because you deem it unjust does not make it unjust. If we take the word at dictionary value, you're being unjust to the administration and moderation staff. Does that mean they should file a grievance to have you permanently removed? This isn't the US or World court, you are not owed any civil liberties here nor are they promised to you. You are given a site to use, and if they choose to suspend, infract, warn, or ban you for any reason it is not something that is unjust. It is their decision because justice and it's concepts do not fit into this private arena except where a US or World court would be involved.
You're making a mountain out of a mole hill and purposefully inciting drama. The truth is they'll never be capable of satisfying you or your ilk because you want what you can't have. You want to be an admin/mod but without any of the additional responsibilities and you haven't shown yourself to be admin/mod material because you can't remain impartial or objective. Do the majority of the users a solid and stop posting outside the gutter.
You guys should be more like the mods of Elitist Jerks. Letting fluff and speculation run rampant outside of an appropriate forum only clutters the ease the information gathering process.
Honestly, I've only worked 1 minimum wage job and that was for less than a week. I've worked quite a few construction jobs, I was paid 16/hour to (literally) shovel mud. I worked 7 12 hour days through the summer on 3-4 week stretches doing some really repugnant things no one else wanted to do and was paid well for it. I also went to school for 10 years.
The reason I weigh your job so low is that it is neither physically or mentally difficult. You require no technical skill or quality to perform your job. I don't get a tip from the parents when a student gets an A and understands calculus. I didn't get tipped when I was a programmer. I didn't get tipped when measuring heat exchange for a nuclear reactor. I didn't get tipped when shoveling mud.
I'm not sure why wait staff feels they deserve anything more than minimum wage/waiters wage
This is trolling. Infraction. --Senori
Telepathy? I don't know about you, but I hate playing with my hand up and I'm guessing most other players would rather not play with their hand up either. The only thing I've seen from Telepathy is that person going out first because everyone hates on them and they get focused down. I mean, defend away, and you certainly have different experiences. Just relating my experience thus far.
Probably the most asinine statement I've read here yet. It's a close call, but saying that just because you posted something you shouldn't have. If you break a rule today, and they don't catch it until next month, you still broke the rule, regardless of time frame. This is taking into account the rule existed at the time. I don't see why you feel there should be a "get away with it" time frame. It seems like you just want to serve your own desires to be obtuse and trollish rather than actually serving to further the community.
Rule Broken = Punishment. Why are people so opposed to this?
Why should that count towards suspended time if they're not actually suspended yet? That's like saying penalties leavened should take into account processing time, which nowhere in any penal system I'm aware of is the case unless you were detained during that processing time.
Not speaking for NS, obviously. You only really need to look at the elitistjerks forums to realize how great strict moderation can be. EJ during WoW's theorycrafting prime was a hugely trafficked site that has some tie your nuts in a knot moderation. Gurgthock realized very early on that the internet does not function as a democracy, and EJ has been forum-drama free for years. Probably the best community nearly anywhere on the web.
Along the same lines, but more lenient, is the BDFL in the OSS movement. There's usually a group that acts as the board, but there is always one iron fist sitting up top should it be required.
On a related note, this is a good read: Cancer surgery: Physically removing cancer(Mayo Clinic)
Justice is a completely subjective and arbitrarily assigned word. Just because you deem it unjust does not make it unjust. If we take the word at dictionary value, you're being unjust to the administration and moderation staff. Does that mean they should file a grievance to have you permanently removed? This isn't the US or World court, you are not owed any civil liberties here nor are they promised to you. You are given a site to use, and if they choose to suspend, infract, warn, or ban you for any reason it is not something that is unjust. It is their decision because justice and it's concepts do not fit into this private arena except where a US or World court would be involved.
You're making a mountain out of a mole hill and purposefully inciting drama. The truth is they'll never be capable of satisfying you or your ilk because you want what you can't have. You want to be an admin/mod but without any of the additional responsibilities and you haven't shown yourself to be admin/mod material because you can't remain impartial or objective. Do the majority of the users a solid and stop posting outside the gutter.
Bring on the portmanteau of herd homo sapiens.
Infraction for trolling.
-:ER:
A+, more moderation even.