Big difference between this affecting Modern the way Modern affected legacy, no reserve list for modern, cards can always be reprinted to make sure enough are out there.
WotC had a loop-hole to reprint RL cards, but they closed it and created Modern instead. Legacy players were upset by this choice; just as Modern players will be upset if WotC creates and supports this format instead of upping the reprints for Modern.
Really it's the same situation - prices in Modern are prohibitively high and this is preventing players from joining. Apparently WotC has other concerns with reprinting expensive staples besides the RL (like consumer confidence in the secondary market). A cheaper non-rotating format will be an alternative to anybody who would have shelled out for the more expensive format but will take the cheaper option instead. Players who will be glad for a cheaper format won't care about the fate of Modern anymore than Modern players care about Legacy.
Completely disagree, there is nothing stopping WOTC from supporting both formats with reprints the way there is with Legacy, in fact as Frontier gets more and more sets it will likely suffer from similar issues that all non-rotating formats do, new cards will have a harder and harder time breaking in as the power level will obviously increase overtime one does in such a large card pool. If they can make money reprinting cards for both formats I don't see any reason they wouldn't do so, hell through supplementary products they still find ways to impact legacy and why $$$, plain and simple.
Why am I imagining the modern forums on MTGSalvation are going to be "colorful" when this happens. A lot of people over there are worried about Modern attendance dropping and that isn't going to help in the slightest, though I'm more on wizards side at this point with generating a new window.
A lot of those worried Modern players probably weren't very sympathetic when Legacy players felt their format of choice was threatened by Modern.
I say let people play whatever games they want. Nobody owes it to you to play and support the format of your preference. Legacy has survived (despite slowed growth) because it has enough appeal to retain and attract players. Modern too will endure if and only if people in sufficient numbers still want to play it. End of story.
Big difference between this affecting Modern the way Modern affected legacy, no reserve list for modern, cards can always be reprinted to make sure enough are out there.
Well, Modern has more problems than card availability. You know how in Dragonball Z the fighters power levels just kept going up each season until they were blowing up planets, and then Toriyama decided to try to do a power reset with Dragonball GT and that ended up with the fighters getting even more powerful by the end of it? Modern has that problem.
I know, power level and lack of viable deck options is a real problem in Modern. That's why I suggested maybe a slow-rotating format could fill the gap between the allegedly boring Standard and the overpowered Modern. Removing blocks with powerful cards like Innistrad, RTR or Scars of Mirrodin could refresh all these things.
Anyway, good to know others share my disappointment with Theros not being in Frontier
Well, Modern has more problems than card availability. You know how in Dragonball Z the fighters power levels just kept going up each season until they were blowing up planets, and then Toriyama decided to try to do a power reset with Dragonball GT and that ended up with the fighters getting even more powerful by the end of it? Modern has that problem.
I know, power level and lack of viable deck options is a real problem in Modern. That's why I suggested maybe a slow-rotating format could fill the gap between the allegedly boring Standard and the overpowered Modern. Removing blocks with powerful cards like Innistrad, RTR or Scars of Mirrodin could refresh all these things.
Anyway, good to know others share my disappointment with Theros not being in Frontier
Huh? there are a lot of viable decks in Modern, Dredge,Burn,Jund,Junk,Affinity,Grixis Delver,Grixis Control, Zoo, RW Control, Knightfall, RG Titan, Scapeshift,Infect,Jeskai Control and Midrange, Skred Red, Ad Mauseam, Elrdazi Taxes,Bant Eldrazi, Kikki-Chord, Company just off the top of my head
Far more diverse than standard ever really is, frontier may be a good format not knocking it, but to say Modern isn't diverse is just false.
Basing enitre meta on one small tourney even if it is worlds is silly, in that event players tend to pick what they like for modern especially since its a multi format tourney, also small sample size should obviously apply here.
I only splash red for Crumble to Dust and Wear // Tear. Otherwise it is straight WB. Other than fetches, I only run two Sacred Foundrys to give me access to the little red I need.
Hello, i am new to the forum and following this thread for a long time now. I recently splashed red for sideboard options and would like to see your whole list. After work i will post my list.
As you can see, red is a very light splash. Basically for Crumble to Dust. Wear // Tear is just a bonus for splashing red.
Why are you not playing Spectral Procession?
The mana base is much easier without it. Spectral Procession, while good, is not worth it to me to bend-over backwards with the mana. There are many posts in this thread about the mana base as people try to figure out how to play spells that cost B, W, WW, 1BB and WWW. For just two colors, BW tokens mana base is stretched. Yes, Fetid Heath helps significantly, but not worth it in my opinion. Without Spectral Procession the need for Fetid Heaths is gone. This allows me to run Shambling Vent instead (which I find an amazing inclusion). Also, I like the fact that midnight haunting is an instant. It makes one fewer spirit, but being able to hold up mana for removal and then make two spirits end of turn is worth it. It also puts blue decks in a bind. Counter the end of turn spirits or wait for the possibility of something bigger. Anecdotally, I have snuck in many planeswalkers in after a counter went off on the spirits.
First of all you are only running 2 lands that either don't produce White or can go get a land that does, so like all other BW toaken decks your manabase can easily support it, also if from time to time you have to pay 4 for it it's not that bad, heck you are willing to pay 3 for only 2 tokens in midnight haunting. Frankly I just don't agree wit you on any level, and really think you are making the deck worse by not including procession, it is a powerful enough card to make the manabase work for it in this deck, because of cards like Virtue and Sorin makes Procession insane. While the instant part of haunting does help it, this deck taps out to do so many other things all the time, that I just don't think it is as relevant as often as you try to make it out to be. Anyway goodluck to you sir.
What are the actual payoff spells you get for playing with red? Bolt is kind of obvious, however imo not really necessary, Path does the job more then fine, and playing one or two-of Dismember or Murderous Cut is working as well, though neither of the options is great in the early game, but I want to cast hand disruption at that point anyway, and not beeing able to do so to cast Bolt will leave the opponent with more options early on, giving them a chance to resolve key spells.
The other card you mentioned was Mardu Charm. Sure, it has quite a lot of flexibiliy, but neither of the modes is worth anything close to 3 mana, and I dont reallt think any of those modes is really needed either. We have Path, Dismember and Cut for removal, Inquisition and Thoughtseize for hand disruption and obvi Lingering Souls and Spectral Procession for Tokens.
My main problem with splashing red is the cost for the mana base. I do already have 1 Vault, 2 Ghost Quarter (**** you Tron) and 1 Swamp, and not beeing able to cast Procession on turn 3 is hurting me already. So splashing Red would basically cost us the ability to play our second best card, which is not really worth it imo.
I would however like to know your experience playing the Deck, mby I am just overvalueing the solid manabase, and small upgrades for some of the cards (mainly Bolt) could be doable.
I only splash red for Crumble to Dust and Wear // Tear. Otherwise it is straight WB. Other than fetches, I only run two Sacred Foundrys to give me access to the little red I need.
Hello, i am new to the forum and following this thread for a long time now. I recently splashed red for sideboard options and would like to see your whole list. After work i will post my list.
I have been testing black white tokens with much success on cockatrice and am almost sold on getting the deck - but I can't decide on what list is the most effective. What are general opinions on spectral processions - is it a must have? I tried playing a few games with raise the alarm and secure the waste as replacements, and noticed that my mana was not only a lot more efficient, but also allowed me to take less damage (no more shock fetching out of fear that I could draw processions and not be able to cast it turn 3). Is the general opinion that a clunky mana base is worth playing a more powerful card? Would enjoy hearing from people who play the deck a lot!
In my opinion Procession is a must have, a lot of times it is the best card in the deck especially with Virtue or Sorin in play, I think too many people are being too cute by not playing you are weakening the deck, adjust the mana base anyway necessary to make Procession fit, it turns on heath all by itself and can help win many a race, can trade 2 for one a lot, I can't go on enough about how much happier I am for spectral to be in my hand in this deck, yes from time to time you have to cast it for 4, honestly that isn't the end of the world, also IOK can't hit it I can go on and on why this card is a must have 4 of staple for this deck.
I'm running four Inquisition and two Thoughtseize.
@Mirage King - I love having the classic Honor of the Pure/Intangible Virtue lurking underneath. Especially Virtue. "Oh you thought I was going to leave myself open? GUESS AGAIN."
Hmmm...after a bit of testing, the second swamp and extra isolated chaps don't really work well. Fetid heath is out of my budget right now but I was thinking about it.the nevermore is for this one guy in my playgroup that plays propaganda and that annoying Net where you must exile a card in your gy before you could attack.
I'll be testing this revised, list. hopefully it does better, moved the nevermores to the SB again.
hmmm...I play 4 BB cause it draws the discards my opponents have away from my other spells. I know, I have a weird playgroup. lol
Pretty sure propaganda is not legal in modern, and even if it was there are better answers than nevermore. Also 3 colorless sources is too many especially when running chapels and heights. Spectral procession is something you want to almost always be able to pay 3 for only, I'd personally drop Elspeth as well and at least 1 dismember to get up to 4 raise the alarm.
1
Completely disagree, there is nothing stopping WOTC from supporting both formats with reprints the way there is with Legacy, in fact as Frontier gets more and more sets it will likely suffer from similar issues that all non-rotating formats do, new cards will have a harder and harder time breaking in as the power level will obviously increase overtime one does in such a large card pool. If they can make money reprinting cards for both formats I don't see any reason they wouldn't do so, hell through supplementary products they still find ways to impact legacy and why $$$, plain and simple.
1
Big difference between this affecting Modern the way Modern affected legacy, no reserve list for modern, cards can always be reprinted to make sure enough are out there.
2
Huh? there are a lot of viable decks in Modern, Dredge,Burn,Jund,Junk,Affinity,Grixis Delver,Grixis Control, Zoo, RW Control, Knightfall, RG Titan, Scapeshift,Infect,Jeskai Control and Midrange, Skred Red, Ad Mauseam, Elrdazi Taxes,Bant Eldrazi, Kikki-Chord, Company just off the top of my head
Far more diverse than standard ever really is, frontier may be a good format not knocking it, but to say Modern isn't diverse is just false.
3
Basing enitre meta on one small tourney even if it is worlds is silly, in that event players tend to pick what they like for modern especially since its a multi format tourney, also small sample size should obviously apply here.
1
I think it has been at least for the last several months most BW tokens decks that do well run 3-4 Bitterblossoms for the most part
2
First of all you are only running 2 lands that either don't produce White or can go get a land that does, so like all other BW toaken decks your manabase can easily support it, also if from time to time you have to pay 4 for it it's not that bad, heck you are willing to pay 3 for only 2 tokens in midnight haunting. Frankly I just don't agree wit you on any level, and really think you are making the deck worse by not including procession, it is a powerful enough card to make the manabase work for it in this deck, because of cards like Virtue and Sorin makes Procession insane. While the instant part of haunting does help it, this deck taps out to do so many other things all the time, that I just don't think it is as relevant as often as you try to make it out to be. Anyway goodluck to you sir.
1
Why are you not playing Spectral Procession?
1
In my opinion Procession is a must have, a lot of times it is the best card in the deck especially with Virtue or Sorin in play, I think too many people are being too cute by not playing you are weakening the deck, adjust the mana base anyway necessary to make Procession fit, it turns on heath all by itself and can help win many a race, can trade 2 for one a lot, I can't go on enough about how much happier I am for spectral to be in my hand in this deck, yes from time to time you have to cast it for 4, honestly that isn't the end of the world, also IOK can't hit it I can go on and on why this card is a must have 4 of staple for this deck.
1
6 - 8 seems the norm, I like 6 or 7 usually
1
Pretty sure propaganda is not legal in modern, and even if it was there are better answers than nevermore. Also 3 colorless sources is too many especially when running chapels and heights. Spectral procession is something you want to almost always be able to pay 3 for only, I'd personally drop Elspeth as well and at least 1 dismember to get up to 4 raise the alarm.