I don't think anybody suggested the zombies would be running Naturalize or a variant of that. But given that most U/W control lists won't have many lite creatures, Abrupt Decay almost certainly would be commandeered for our enchantments. I'm not saying that means don't run them, but it does mean that the zombie player can get rid of enchantments at the time most advantageous - for example, in response to a Supreme Verdict to keep Geralf's Messenger around. Given that only so much of Zombies.dec relies on the graveyard (undying on Geralf's Messenger, Gravecrawler, what else?) this doesn't seem like the best idea. On the flip side, we lose graveyard-using cards if we run Rest in Peace. While I am suggesting keeping "the best graveyard hoser almost ever" out of the mainboard, it's because I don't think the target deck relies on the graveyard that much, that deck has answers to the hoser, and we'd lose some tools if we did it.
All that to say, Rest in Peace remains a great hoser for Frites or anything else like that we might face. But given all the graveyard hate, few people will probably gravitate toward Frites in serious play.
The game theory "equilibrium" here, summarily, should be no Rest in Peace mainboard.
I completely agree. That's why there are none in my main. Why did you type all of that, to completely agree with me or to make a point that I can't see..?
Also, in regards to Jace being the best draw spell in standard : Even one mini Fact or Fiction is just as good as think twice, and having access to doing that multiple times is just absolutely absurd. You can use him as a mono card draw spell and he will be amazing. Try it.
One more thing : If you are going the Angel of Serenity plan, you'll be very disapointed if you aren't playing multiples. A one of is still good, but having 2 - 4 in your deck with the recursion is where it's at.
Rest In Peace being able to be hit by removal is the same as a creature dying because it dies to doom blade. Let's be real, if they run mono enchantment removal and decay against your 3 - 4 RIP's and Sphere's, you are winning. Cutting the best graveyard hoser almost ever is very wrong.
Also, Jace is the best card draw spell in standard, period. This isn't a budget discussion thread.
Just think you're a bit high on the curve. Assuming you don't play your spells for miracle cost, you have 16 cards with mana cost 5 or higher.
Also, why the one off o-ring? Isn't it strictly worse than detention sphere?
Every game multiple spells get miracled. And Usually, except when I'm playing against a U/W control deck. Detention Sphere can't hit a Detention Sphere.
u sure that 3 serenity not too much? because i think so. 3 7cmc card is really hard.
I played against the most agressive decks from what I can see in this format in my testing and yes, 7 is perfectly fine for something that almost instantly wins you the game. The swing that this card provides is beyond belief, and having two cycling eachother is game over for a lot of decks. Angel gets weaker the less you play of her.
I plan on changing the sideboard a bit before the first FNM, but this is what I have sleeved up atm. Dev Tide will be changed to the one sided, overloaded board bounce once I get acouple. I like keeping my threats diverse as an answer to Slaughter Games. Most cards in main and side are self-explanatory, I think. If I were to add a card, it would be Azorius Keyrune, but I just straight up don't think there's room for it. I'm also looking to add another Jace somewhere in the 75, possibly dropping a RIP for it, as Jace is the best card draw spell in standard. So far I've tested against Jund and B/G zombies and have done very well.
My LGS had a pre-release three days. On the two that I could make it, I went undefeated both days getting "first" once with rakdos. The other day I played Azorius. Rakdos surprised me, as I definitely underrated it. Azorius was as good as expected. The biggest surprise of the weekend was how awful Izzet was.
Okay if three people tell me that I better believe it.
So do you think regenerate is better than hexproof? Because I like hexproof more.
conditional hexproof is significantly worse than conditional regeneration, atleast in the context of the rings in M13 limited3. The blue ring in a deck without blue creatures is usually pretty awful. You're forced to leave up hexproof mana for something they probably won't be targeting anyway, and it does nothing past that...
Regen, on the other hand, gives you the protection from their removal spells and their big giant fatty boom booms. That's definitely worth it in the majority of matchups.
And then when he top decks a Thunderous Wrath and gets me down to 3, not a hell of a lot I can do.
Not every deck is aggro, aggro, aggro. Ramp decks can certainly take 4 turns to get anything on the field.
And I didn't say he's a great card. I simply said he's not unplayable. The simple fact that this card almost single handed beat me shows, if nothing else, that it's not unplayable.
Do you people even know the definition of unplayable?
I obviously am missing something. You took the third 4 to the face for what reason again? That seems like you either made a misplay there or kept a hideous hand, especially if you knew he was on RDW.
Your outs to your opponents line of play would have included slagstorm, huntmaster, any fast titan, etc.
And you're right, vexing devil isn't "unplayable." Bower Passage is unplayable. Vexing Devil is merely bad. Lol
RDW is giving you trouble as a ramp player? Give tree of redemption a try ;D
FWIW, one week I was playing against this kid playing RDW.
Turn 1 - Devil, 4 to the face
Turn 2 - Devil, 4 to the face
Turn 3 - Devil, 4 to the face
I was at 8 life before I got any board presence.
That 12 to the face was the difference in the game.
I'm not saying he's the 2nd coming of Goblin Guide, but unplayable people? Come on.
Assuming your opponent was on rdw and your deck does -something- why did you take the third 4 to the face? And the fact that he only shines when it goes runner runner runner the first turns should say something. Its laughable to think he has a place in any format let alone standard or modern.
It was a release promo actually. And the prerelease and release promos are essentially the same thing. Show up, play the tournament, get a free card. They don't have to always give us 100% playable cards, not to mention, if you read this thread, maybe some players actually like this card. I know it pains you to hear this, but there are players other than you that play this game, and some of them might like different cards than you. I know, it sucks, but I guess its something you will have to live with. You will still have to spend some money to play this game rather than have cards handed to you for free. It's a dark day to be you.
Okay, so this turned into a flame thread all the sudden? Lol. I'll keep it short. you're a complete moron.
They aren't the same thing.
And how does saying the card is bad (which it is) translate into me not liking the card? It's very flavorful and seems fun. I love when 12 year olds rant to me.
True that your opponent choosing is bad, but as previously stated, both effects are very good and travel in the same direction
Vexing Devil will find a home and will retain a $10+ price tag as long as he is in standard to represent his power level and how collectors have faith he will find a home.
Please tell me you just compared Vexing Devil to Fact or Fiction and Gifts Ungiven. As stated earlier, a proper gifts pile doesn't even give the opponent a choice and FoF is guaranteed card advantage. What does Vexing Devil guarantee you? A loss?
If this card is so bad, why is it still around $10? Just wondering? Is it kids buying it up or hype or preperation for Gruul or Rakdos beats?
Card playability and price are not the same thing. The few times I post on MTGS I must sound like a broken record.
I have no idea who would be buying these in the first place, but it still does have a lot of hype, yes. I don't expect the price to stay unless it starts putting up results, which it almost assuredly won't.
I completely agree. That's why there are none in my main. Why did you type all of that, to completely agree with me or to make a point that I can't see..?
Also, in regards to Jace being the best draw spell in standard : Even one mini Fact or Fiction is just as good as think twice, and having access to doing that multiple times is just absolutely absurd. You can use him as a mono card draw spell and he will be amazing. Try it.
One more thing : If you are going the Angel of Serenity plan, you'll be very disapointed if you aren't playing multiples. A one of is still good, but having 2 - 4 in your deck with the recursion is where it's at.
Also, Jace is the best card draw spell in standard, period. This isn't a budget discussion thread.
Every game multiple spells get miracled. And Usually, except when I'm playing against a U/W control deck. Detention Sphere can't hit a Detention Sphere.
I played against the most agressive decks from what I can see in this format in my testing and yes, 7 is perfectly fine for something that almost instantly wins you the game. The swing that this card provides is beyond belief, and having two cycling eachother is game over for a lot of decks. Angel gets weaker the less you play of her.
Creatures
3 Augur of Bolas
3 Angel of Serenity
1 Drogskol Reaver
Spells
3 Azorius Charm
4 Think Twice
3 Supreme Verdict
4 Terminus
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Detention Sphere
2 Entreat The Angels
2 Syncopate
1 Dissipate
1 Sphinx's Revelation
Planeswalkers
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Sideboard
4 Rest in Peace
1 Martial Law
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Negate
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Dispel
1 Angel of Glory's Rise
1 Angel of Serenity
2 Devestation Tide
I plan on changing the sideboard a bit before the first FNM, but this is what I have sleeved up atm. Dev Tide will be changed to the one sided, overloaded board bounce once I get acouple. I like keeping my threats diverse as an answer to Slaughter Games. Most cards in main and side are self-explanatory, I think. If I were to add a card, it would be Azorius Keyrune, but I just straight up don't think there's room for it. I'm also looking to add another Jace somewhere in the 75, possibly dropping a RIP for it, as Jace is the best card draw spell in standard. So far I've tested against Jund and B/G zombies and have done very well.
conditional hexproof is significantly worse than conditional regeneration, atleast in the context of the rings in M13 limited3. The blue ring in a deck without blue creatures is usually pretty awful. You're forced to leave up hexproof mana for something they probably won't be targeting anyway, and it does nothing past that...
Regen, on the other hand, gives you the protection from their removal spells and their big giant fatty boom booms. That's definitely worth it in the majority of matchups.
I think that baneslayer is significantly better than primeval in limited. But jn general you're very right.
I for one can't wait to see the blue draw / filter spels.
I obviously am missing something. You took the third 4 to the face for what reason again? That seems like you either made a misplay there or kept a hideous hand, especially if you knew he was on RDW.
Your outs to your opponents line of play would have included slagstorm, huntmaster, any fast titan, etc.
And you're right, vexing devil isn't "unplayable." Bower Passage is unplayable. Vexing Devil is merely bad. Lol
RDW is giving you trouble as a ramp player? Give tree of redemption a try ;D
Assuming your opponent was on rdw and your deck does -something- why did you take the third 4 to the face? And the fact that he only shines when it goes runner runner runner the first turns should say something. Its laughable to think he has a place in any format let alone standard or modern.
Okay, so this turned into a flame thread all the sudden? Lol. I'll keep it short. you're a complete moron.
They aren't the same thing.
And how does saying the card is bad (which it is) translate into me not liking the card? It's very flavorful and seems fun. I love when 12 year olds rant to me.
Flaming warning issued. -viper
What does it say, actually? Because Restoration Angel was a game day promo, not a pre-release promo.
Rod seems terrible. Unless the limited format is very quick, seems fine there. Woo.
Please tell me you just compared Vexing Devil to Fact or Fiction and Gifts Ungiven. As stated earlier, a proper gifts pile doesn't even give the opponent a choice and FoF is guaranteed card advantage. What does Vexing Devil guarantee you? A loss?
Card playability and price are not the same thing. The few times I post on MTGS I must sound like a broken record.
I have no idea who would be buying these in the first place, but it still does have a lot of hype, yes. I don't expect the price to stay unless it starts putting up results, which it almost assuredly won't.