Before people suggest Jhoira, let me say, Paradox Haze is bad for Jhoira in any competitive meta. Stax decks are going to enjoy your two upkeeps. Not to mention its 3 cmc and fits the same slot where you want to be casting Jhoira.
Armagaedon should be next. Sure it's a little more expensive and not comparble to balance, but armagaedon kills EVERY land! That's not fun, it's like a game reset! It requires me to have lands in my hand or deck, not to mention, it's not fun having your lands get blown up after all the time and energy it took to put them into play. Land destruction is basically a grieffer tactic it's like sha rah something! It's not fun, it has to be banned because it ruins games. It's only four mana!!! and it's so easy to splash!
every since i saw krenko ive been really tempted to build a goblin tribal that runs him as the general, but since a mono-red deck is probably the worst you could go with for general colors im wondering if anyone thinks that he could be run in a fairly legit goblin deck thats doesnt cost $500 for all the broken old cards. the colors worry me, but the prospect of having an elvish promenade for goblins on a stick that you get a free use of every turn. (more if you throw in untap artifacts) seems like something that should be strongly thought about, so does anyone think hes worth it or would he better as 1 of 99 in a wort deck?
I've been playtesting him as well, proxied obviously. He can be ridiculously fast. I've gone full aggro with land destruction. Some notable cards; I don't think I've lost a game with Skirk Prospector in my opening hand yet. Seize the Day is a powerhouse, enabling you to win out of nowhere with either Goblin Warchief/Goblin Chieftain. Mana Echoes is obviously bonkers, so I've been using Phyrexian Altar to fulfill my colored mana needs. Keldon Firebombers is really good for dealing with all the green good stuff decks in my meta that just ramp for the first five turns. If someone plays War Tax type effects, Skirk Fire Marshal is a good alternative win con, just make sure you stack it properly.
He works best as an all in. If you are making it past turn 7-ish, you will be wishing you were playing either of the other Worts. Which is fine, if you like RDW, and definitely something to remember when you are building your curve. I would seriously think about every card 5 cmc and above.
I don't get the point of these "is _____ card viable" threads. Every card is viable in EDH. Play whatever is the most fun for you. Not every card has to be the most efficient better than card X type stuff. Example: I play Black Carriage in my EDH deck. I could use Grim Grin which would be "better" functionally, but I find Black Carriage to be ten times more awesome sauce. Isn't that the point of EDH?
If you think Krenko is awesome, just play it and have fun with it because YOU think it is good times. Don't just play Wort or whatever because they are functionally better. Ruins the spirit of the format.
He's welcome to ask other people's opinions on a general. Even if that offends your notion of what does and doesn't ruin the spirit of the format. And telling the OP all that just leaves him saying "Ok, but what about my original question?" You should rather answer his question, or make helpful suggestions, even if you don't agree with him.
I foresee this becoming a long list as people name every general that has ever won through a combo.
"I hate Mikaeus, because he just plays Triskelion and wins the game"
"I hate Kiki-Jiki, because he just plays Zealous Conscripts and wins the game"
"I hate Azami, because she just plays Mind Over Matter and wins the game"
etc etc.
Which is fine, just I think you are going to end up with a big list that isn't worth much. And if you hand it to new players and say "Don't play any of these, they are unfun", they are probably going to ask things like "Why play this format if it is so easily ruined?" or even "Why are a few of the precon commanders on this list?". Instead, just let them experience the unfun decks once, and teach them how to answer them. You say you're worried about people 1v4ing a table. That can only work if no one at the table runs answers.
Heh, I can very well see your point, It hasn't been very much of a problem yet (hence the no amount of work attempted to fix it), and even though the deck can still pull it's own w/o Jhoira it would be nice to know what cards could help the deck out. Know of any decent cards I could just drop in (without breaking my wallet?). That's actually why I posted this deck here in the first place. However, Jhoira is only really needed to suspend 2 or 3 things, and then my deck really gets chugging. The deck usually works despite enemy interference due to the fact that not to many people (I have played) have turn 3-4 interference, and on top of that Jhoira is cheap enough to play that recasting once or twice is no biggie. Thanks!
If you're playing Jhoira and you are recasting her once or twice, by the second time she is 7 mana. Its not really worth it, you can almost hard cast your stuff. In my opinion, if this is happening and you are not running any protection, just play RGU, with something like Riku. You can ramp with G just as fast, and your extra turns can be just as effective with copy effects.
Because looking at your decklist, you are not dependant on the suspend mechanic. You have no MLD, like Decree of Annihilation, and no cards like Aeon Chronicler. You could drop all your Jhoira's Timebug and Timecrafting cards, and replace them with ramp effects and get your bombs out around the same time anyway.
It looks like a lot of fun, but not very competitive. You have no protection from interference. So if your opponents let you play Jhoira and then chain together suspends of extra turn cards, you will probably win. But if you play Jhoira and she gets Hindered, you have a lot of dead cards. If that hasn't proven to be a problem yet, then no worries
I couldn't NEVER pull off this decklist at my LGS.
I love Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar as a card, but it fills an awkward spot in the Jhoira deck. It has a medium cmc, and really we want big or small cmc cards. That doesn't mean you shouldn't include it, just really think about wether you want this card and wether it does anything for you in your current meta. If you have a lot of Howling Mine style effects floating around, it can give you insane filtering. It is also tech against Phyrexian Tyranny effects, since you never draw.
This deck is running Future Sight and Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur. Future Sight is less fragile in my meta as an enchantment, and Jin-Gitaxias is much more the size of my liking. I feel like you are going to have to be drawing 3+ cards a turn before its function changes from being a budget Jin-Gitaxias, both in price and cmc (probably an overly simplified example).
If I ever posted a budget Jhoira decklist, it would probably be in there.
I like the city. It's not bad if you run Crucible of Worlds/Life from the Loam as a recursion engine. Also, I believe if you run the karoo lands from ravnica(Azorius Chancery et al.) you can bounce city with their etb effect instead of sacrificing it.
Unfortunately this seems like two different and opposing goals in a deck. If you are building a deck that wants an explosive start, bouncelands are bad. If you are building a deck that doesn't want an explosive start, city of traitors is bad. Do you get what I mean? And you want to be careful how many bouncelands you run. If you run both, with lots of bouncelands so you have something to consistently get value off your city of traitors, then you can end up in a scenario where your opening hand could have two or three bouncelands and therefore be unplayable. And an easy target for some LD. Maybe you can get it all to work, but it feels forced.
To answer the original question, I don't run it in decks like my Jhoira deck because I am forced to focus on making it resilient and consistent, rather than explosive. Because it feels like you have to tilt your entire deck design one way or the other, to consistency or explosive starts. You can run a lone City of Traitors with no other similar quick mana cards, but are you just hoping to occasionally explode with a god hand? What about the rest of the time? Particularly in UR, not G.
In a less answer heavy meta, I would run. And you would see a whole lot more turn 2 suspends, and crazy shenanigans. But alas
Hmm, you gave me a good idea on how to improve this primer. But let me first answer your list, and then I'll do it;
Devastation Tide - I'm not a big fan of miracle cards. Its a combination of things like, they seem like they take a lot of work to get consistent, I play in a meta where you regularly see Howling Mine/Rites of Flourishing/Force Fruition, and this list runs a lot of artifact ramp. I have a copy that I pulled at the prerelease and it hasn't really grabbed me. I might give it a little bit of testing, but I haven't included it as more of a personal preference than on the card's merits.
Misdirection - I have never actually seen this card oddly enough, or at least I've completely forgotten about it. I wonder how often you can get this in hand, with something to pitch, and artifact ramp and something to suspend. I will test this one as well, seems like it could work, especially for random goodstuff like snagging a Time Stretch.
Kira, Glass Spinner - Its good protection for Jhoira and your fatties, but it can be awkward. Firstly it costs 3, which is the spot where we want to be casting Jhoira. Second, it will counter things like Kiki-Jiki because it will counter you attempting to copy or untap. It will also counter you attempting to bounce for Izzet for infinite turns. Third, it will counter Proteus Staff if you have polymorph one of your own guys. Its definitely a good card, and worthy of a mention, but it doesn't fit with my playstyle.
Spellskite - I tried this for a while and didn't like it. But it was when NPH was first released, and the deck has had some revisions again. I will also test this one again. Like Misdirection, I think it will have a lot of value in not only protecting Jhoira but also snagging random buffs, such as game winning auras.
Ancient Tomb - Not sure why I missed this one. This is definitely an include.
Academy Ruins - I was never really statisfied with this, and you are not the first person to suggest it. I think it is better with Mindslaver locks or abusing Nevinyrral's Disk. Its worth a mention, but I've never really liked it.
Tolaria West - This should be on the list. I had it a while ago, but removed it because you can't transmute during another person's turn. A huge part of making this deck resilient is not trying to answer all threats but only the threats that are targeted at you, which means you need to be as reactionary as possible. However, I think I will include it. It will let you tutor for all our utility lands like Ancient Tomb or Bojeiju.
Vedalken Shackles - This isn't included, but thats more as a personal preference. Its worth a mention, but I don't like it as more of a personal preference. I would only play it when I was ready to steal, because if I played it early it would will earn me a lot of unwanted attention.
Mana Crypt - It's on the "To Acquire" list. Definitely include.
I am going to add another section of cards that are good, but that I don't run. Just to give you an idea of options for different metas.
This primer is intended for competitive multiplayer.
A huge part of building a Jhoira deck is choosing cards that are relevant to your meta. For example, how much spot removal people play, how long you can expect to keep Jhoira, how do people feel about mass land destruction or infinite turns? The meta I play in, Jhoira will usually die to spot removal or tuck (such as Hinder). So, we need plan B. And plan C. And probably plan D.
The funny thing is, there are plenty of cards you can include that aren't right or wrong, just more relevant for your meta. I have been refining this list for a long time, and occasionally I will look at it, and think of cards like Oblivion Stone, and I think "I wonder if this would work. I mean, I could fetch it with Tezzeret...". And regardless of wether or not its a great card in your or my Jhoira deck, I have not gotten into a game recently where I have gone "Man, I really wish this X was a Oblivion Stone", and so I never included it.
I have been playing Jhoira for a long time now. I have played her in a huge variety of groups while I moved around a lot. In a few of them, I was even not the most hated person on the table. I currently play in Melbourne, with some very competitive players, which is very nice because I can do some really interesting combos without getting hated off the table.
This deck has been through many iterations. It has reached the point where it is "completed" in my mind. It is extremely resilient, it is designed to be played almost entirely during other people's turns and create as little threat as possible for a Jhoira deck. The trick to piloting a deck like this is to know how much you can get away with. Its a difficult concept to explain. If you copy this decklist, play with a group of people and they go all Archenemy on you, you are probably playing it wrong.
If nothing else, this deck has taught me a life lesson. I like building reactionary complex and competitive decks. And I like winning. But occasionally, the best strategy for this deck is to lose. Losing one game, can get the heat off you for the next half dozen games. And you know, there's no prizes on the line, so you don't lose anything
Here is my primer. I am not sure how long these things are supposed to be. As of the time of posting this (2012-05-17), it is almost 5'000 words.
Plan and General Strategy
The general strategy for this deck is quite simple. Mulligan aggressively until you can suspend a reasonable combo fast. Then ramp, play Jhoira and suspend the combo. When that fails, review the list of plans B, C, and D in that order. Of course, Magic is a complex game and you are always going to react to what is being played and what you have in your hand. But if you have no idea what you're doing, try this is order.
You laugh at Plan D, but in long drawn out games I find new combos with cards all the time. I had a game once where I was shut down hard, but won by using Acquire to steal Akroma's Memorial and casting Rite of Replication on another guy's Turntimber Ranger. Plan D is important kids.
Playing Jhoira when you have 3 mana; You will get her out fast, but she will have to survive till your next turn till you can suspend. Works best if you have Lightning Greaves. Sometimes even if I don't have suspend worthy cards in my hand, I play Jhoira just so she can eat some removal.
Playing Jhoira when you have 5 mana; You can wait till 5 mana, just be aware that if you wait till then, you are not immune to counterspells. You can play her, and walk straight into a Hinder. And then, even if you do counter the Hinder, she can be removed on the way back to untapping.
Do I sound like she gets removed a lot? Its because she gets removed a lot.
(Plan A)Obliterate/Apocalypse/Decree of Annihilation + Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre/Kozilek, Butcher of Truth/Blightsteel Colossus - Suspend any pair. The most famous combo. This is how you are going to try and win most games. Four turns later, both spells will come in. Choose to remove the time counter from the mass LD before the fatty. You do this by saying you want to place the trigger for removing a time counter from the fatty on the stack first, then the trigger for removing a time counter from the mass LD on the stack second. The time counter gets removed from the mass LD, it goes on the stack, and blows up the board. Then the trigger for the time counter on the fatty resolves, you cast him, he has haste and swings.
(Plan B)Deceiver Exarch/Pestermite + Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker/Splinter Twin - Infinite hasty tokens. Each time you create a copy of Deceiver Exarch or Pestermite, you untap either the one enchanted with Splinter Twin or Kiki-Jiki. You can then repeat this process infinite times. If someone has a lock in place, it might be necessary to Acquire/Bribery another combo piece, or include cards like Ashnod's Altar/Blue Sun's Zenith so you can deck people with infinite mana.
Tezzeret the Seeker/Jace, The Mind Sculptor + Obliterate/Decree of Annihilation - Rebuild faster than everyone else. Tezzeret can search for Artifact Lands, and Lotus Bloom. Incredibly good in 1v1, as Decree exiles player's hands, while your opponent is trying to topdeck lands, you are searching for them with Tezzeret or controlling what they topdeck with JTMS (although this decklist is not legal for French 1v1).
Izzet Chronarch/Mnemonic Wall + Evacuation - Repeatable evacuation. Play evacuation so it is in your graveyard, then play Izzet Chronarch or Mnemonic Wall. Evacuation bounces the creature, and repeat. A rather expensive combo at 10 mana, it occasionally comes in hand when you are drawing a lot of aggro.
Reasoning behind every card
Acquire – Once you are familiar with other people’s decklists, you will never be sad to have this in your opening hand. At 5cmc, it fills that awkward spot, where we wish it was better and twice as expensive. Most games, I use it to either find Phyrexian Metamorph, Gilded Lotus or Lightning Greaves. If I am trolling, I go for cards like Omen Machine.
Akroma, Angel of Fury – Sometimes the protection, inability to be countered, and evasion is just exactly the set of abilities you need in your fatty. It doesn’t have any lockdown combos, but sometimes you just need some pressure to put your opponent on a clock. Best uses are for against pillowfort players while they are trying to set up.
Apocalypse – At 5cmc, this card feels like it does more than it should. Apocalypse is the major reason that Quicken is in the deck, despite the obvious drawback of discarding the card you just drew. Apocalypse is so cheap, that if you curve out properly, you can suspend turn four, and just Apocalypse on turn 5, while you wait for the rest of the table to rebuild.
Blasphemous Act – An odd choice for Jhoira decks, as it seems worse than say Obliterate. It depends on your meta. If you are playing in regularly large games of 4-6 people it is essentially R to cast, which is fantastic value. It has a cute interation with Snapcaster Mage as well, which does occasionally come up.
Blightsteel Colossus – One hit kills. Just be careful, as he is a potential Bribery AND Acquire target. The indestructibility is an enormous factor, as for the measly cost of 20 mana, you can cast Blightsteel and then Obliterate (you laugh, I’ve done it before).
Boseiju, Who Shelters All – An unconventional choice for Jhoira decks, as it lacks synergy. The enters tapped prevents you from having an explosive start, and it doesn’t let you suspend spells and make them uncounterable. Add to it that some spells, such as Obliterate are already uncounterable. So why? The reason is that Suspend is only plan A. We need plan B, C, D. And Boseiju enables you to make cards like Time Stretch only redirectable, not counterable.
Bribery – Like Acquire, this fills an awkward spot in our curve. We wish it was twice as good and twice as expensive. Some sort of Blue Tooth and Nail. Usual targets for this are Seedborn Muse (late game), Primeval Titan (early game), Avacyn (about to blow up table), Griselbrand (want to combo off). In my meta, wherever you take, don’t expect to keep it for long.
Cascade Bluffs – One of the best lands in this deck. It enables you to hit heavy color requirement spells like Cryptic Command and Apocalypse. Almost never sorry to see this land, the only times I am is if I got greedy on an opening hand with no color sources, but that doesn’t happen anymore.
Chancellor of the Spires – A very unoffensive creature to initially suspend, he doesn’t an extraordinary amount of work. You can go infinite with Rite of Replication in someone else’s bin. Again, a purely meta dependant card. If you play entirely against greengoodstuff.dec then you might be only able to grab Cultivate and Kodoma’s Reach, which is rather disappointing.
Command Tower – Not really going to justify this one with an explanation.
Consecrated Sphinx – One of the best six drops in the game. This guy will net you an insane amount of card advantage. Most games, I end up hard casting him and if he makes it past two triggers I am happy. Not a bad card for after blowing up the table either. Eldrazi will win you the game, but if you have Sphinx after a Decree and no one draws removal, you are probably going to win.
Cryptic Command – Modular counterspell is fantastic. The color requirements are kind of harsh, and it is not the ideal counterspell for enabling your “suspend fatty, blow up table” win condition. So it is a testament to how great this card is that I still use it.
Crystal Shard - A combo piece. It also serves as a rattlesnake that prevents people from tapping out to play a creature, which slows down the tempo of the game, more to your advantage.
Deceiver Exarch – Almost always prefer Pestermite to this. A component of the Splinter Twin combo, it is free with Gilded Lotus, untaps Proteus Staff if you polymorph into it, and is a flash blocker. Not a bad card.
Decree of Annihilation – The blow up the board card. The game plan with this card is as follows; If its in your opening hand, suspend it. If you draw into it, and have something suspended, cast it if you can. But if you fear counter spells, cycle it. And if you are being ganged up on, cast it as soon as you can regardless.
Desolate Lighthouse – A rather underwhelming card. It gives you instant speed looting at the cost of 4. Occasionally this will save you when someone tries to deck you, by allowing you to discard an Eldrazi at instant speed. Most other times, you will only use this in the occasional game where you draw into nothing.
Evacuation – Instant speed board bounce. Has a cute interaction with Snapcaster Mage. Even if you just hit land drops everyturn, with no mana rocks, this card curves out perfect. Turn 3 Jhoira, Turn 4 Double Suspend, Turn 5 Evacuation.
Fact or Fiction – Simply one of the best draw spells in the game. If you NEED a card that is in your top 5, you are guaranteed to get it. Everything else about this card is just gravy. Occassionally, you can use it politically to get 5-0, at which point this goes from arguably one of the best draw spells, to the best draw spell.
Forgotten Cave – One of the two cycle lands in the deck. They are pretty bad, and if there were more reasons to run basics I would replace them. They do however have a cute interaction with Mystical Tutor, for an instant speed tutor for most of the non-land cards in the deck.
Frantic Search – “Free” card draw. It gives you card disadvantage however. Three cards for Two. Its inclusion is for two reasons. It lets you search for combo pieces, and it gives you instant speed discard of an Eldrazi.
Fury Charm – The only time counter manipulation card in the entire deck. Two mana for two time counters is the best deal of all of the time counter manipulation cards. The only reason it is included but the rest aren’t is because of the modular options.
Future Sight – The card advantage this provides is sickening. It does fit an awkward spot in our curve, but its so good we have to include it anyway. Combos with Mystical Tutor.
Gilded Lotus – A great mana rock, it helps us hit the color requirements of some of our intensive spells. The ramp this provides is insane. I regularly get it out turn 4, and if I play a land turn 5, I have 9 mana available.
High Market – Occasionally someone will try and be cute and steal Jhoira, so they can suspend their own spells for after yours go off. This lets you sac Jhoira in response. It doesn’t happen very often, but it is worth the inclusion to the deck for the rare occasion.
Hinder – Tucks generals, very important card when you have an aggro player, such as Skittles who is going to gun you down. Also, I have the textless version, so pretty going play that!
Impulse – Instant speed dig for four. Find more combo pieces or a necessary counterspell. I’ve been told it’s a bad card, but I have never been disappointed to draw it.
Inkwell Leviathan – Much like Akroma, occasionally this is just the card you need. If this resolves, a monoblue deck will have a hard time dealing with this. It is not as flashy as the Eldrazis or Blightsteel, but sometimes this is just the card you need. As a bonus, if you ever get Tezzeret up to 9, you can search for this.
Izzet Chronarch – Recurs spells. Helpful if you needed to use a spell easier to save yourself and need it again. Combos with Evacuation for trolls, but the main combo is Time Warp/Stretch and Kiki-Jiki/Splinter Twin for infinite turns.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor – Actually quite underwhelming in EDH, he is included purely because he is a toolbox of solutions. If you have JTMS survive blowing up the table, you are in a good spot. However, I only included him because I had one. If you were building this deck, save the money.
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur – An amazing shutdown card, never expect this to survive back to your turn. If he does, the card advantage you gain will be sickening. I have never lost a game where that happened.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker – One of the splinter twin combo pieces, he combos with a variety of cards in this deck. The obvious ones, Pestermite/Deceiver, Izzet Chronarch/Mnuemonic Wall. Also has cute interactions with cards like Snapcaster or the card you steal with Bribery, Acquire, Treachery, Phyrexian Metamorph.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth – Of the three legal big Eldrazis, arguably the best. Even if he gets countered or removed, he provides an Opportunity level card draw.
Leyline of Anticipation – A very important part of this deck is being able to play reactionary. If Leyline is in your opening hand, it lets you flash in Jhoira at EoT. Also has interaction with instant speed blowing up the table, such as EoT Decree.
Lightning Greaves – Originally I took this out of the deck, because with suspend giving haste, and my opponents just responding to the equip I didn’t see the point. I put them back in because it lets me drop Blightsteel and swing in the same turn. Still iffy about them, and if I cute anything, it would be them. It lets you protect Jhoira when you first drop her, but if anyone really wanted her removed, they would just respond to the equip trigger.
Lotus Bloom – Mana acceleration. Mostly times, we only need that one hit anyway, so that’s find. Tezzeret and Trinket Mage can fetch it, which is cute.
Mana Crypt - Fast mana is important in this deck. Remember, it doesn't matter if this almost kills you, if you win. Playtesting may be required to prove this point.
Mana Vault – Lets you do the fabled turn 2 suspend. First turn Land, Mana Vault. Second Turn, Land, Jhoira, Suspend. A great card.
Mind Stone – We don’t include a lot of mana rocks in this deck because they are frankly quite disappointing to draw. Mind Stone is great, because we can cycle it which becomes extraordinarily important with cards like Mystical Tutor or Future Sight.
Mindbreak Trap – “Free” counterspell, it enables you to combo off.
Mystical Tutor – Lets you search for most non-land cards in the deck. If you have a great hand early, lets you find Decree. Has a great interaction with Future Sight obviously.
Obliterate – One of the three blow up the table cards in the deck. The uncounterable aspect of this card will constantly matter. Just be sure to float your mana in response, because a smart opponent will just float his, and counter whatever comes next. I wish Emrakul was still legal.
Pact of Negation – “Free” counter, almost not worth the inclusion because it will cause you to lose in the next turn, and so if you use it to get your Decree through, you are screwed. However, it does let you protect your other combos, and so it worth the inclusion.
Pestermite – See Deceiver Exarch. Usually feel better about Pestermite than Deceiver, because of the evasion.
Phyrexian Metamorph – Is such a generic answer to so many problems, its hard to argue against its inclusion. Lets you copy ramp cards like Guilded Lotus. Searchable with Tezzeret. Kills untargetable Generals.
Proteus Staff – Polymorph on a stick. A great card in this deck, because every creature either has an ETB effect or is a fatty, so you are rarely disappointed with what you get. If your opponent is playing voltron, it lets you tuck their general, although it is usually too slow for that. Occasionally it comes it handy for Iona.
Quicken – Lets you card your sorceries at instant speed, which lets you use Bribery, Acquire, and Obliterate as combat tricks. At first I was hesitant, but it has grown on me. The fact that you can just cycle it if you aren’t happy with it is a huge bonus, especially with Mystical Tutor.
Relic of Progenitus – Graveyard hate is important in my meta, enough to warrant a spot. Ideally you would want to get your combo off before it becomes an issue, but if you are having trouble with graveyard masturbation decks, it is worth the spot. Findable by Trinket Mage.
Reliquary Tower – No maximum hand size is great for this deck, because it lets you keep all your answers. Especially great with Jin-Gitaxias.
Remand – Ordinarily a bad counterspell in EDH (see Arcane Denial), it protects your plan to combo off with minimal color requirements. Remember that you can Remand your own spells, which enables you do all sorts of tricks with the stack and gain card advantage.
Rhystic Study – Simply one of the best draw spells in the game. If it resolves, it either slows everyone down or people will just chose to ignore it and you will draw a ridiculous amount of spells. A great card that for some reason does not gain anywhere near as much hate as Consecrated Sphinx.
Rite of Replication – Combos with any that has an ETB effect. Technically you can use it with Izzet Chronarch to get all instants and sorceries out of your graveyard, but without infinite mana this is cumbersome. In most cases, I use it on Primeval Titan for 10 lands.
Scalding Tarn – Fantastic search land. No reason to not include it.
Sensei's Divining Top – Amazing for digging, amazing for rebuilding, amazing with Future Sight, findable by Trinket Mage. No reason to not include.
Shivan Reef – Color fixer. Life total isn’t important unless you die. What is important is getting that necessary color requirements.
Snapcaster Mage – Flashback value. Cute interactions with a lot of spells.
Stifle – A lot of Kaalia decks in my meta. Stifle lets you wait until the last second, and then stifle their “put into play” trigger. Also has countless other uses. Amazing card.
Strip Mine – Lets you remove certain nuisance lands, such as Maze of Ith.
Sulfur Falls - Dual land, helps with color problems.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir – Protects your combo. Playing him EOT before your combo is about to go off will force your opponents to counter him or lose to your combo. If you aren’t afraid of counters, you can also float your mana and play after Obliterate resolves. Also kills enemy Teferi if they try and be cute by playing Teferi in respond to you removing the last time counter on a spell.
Temple of the False God – If plan A doesn’t work out, helps you accelerate into hard casting. Its situational, and its bad for rebuilding, but I am rarely disappointed with this card.
Tezzeret the Seeker – With so many artifacts in this deck, Tezzeret was an autoinclude. He can fetch Phyrexian Metamorph or Thran Dynamo the turn he hits the battlefield. If he survives to rebuilding, he can fetch Artifact Lands and Lotus Bloom for free. Amazing card, definitely worth the spot.
Thran Dynamo – One of the best mana rocks in the game.
Time Spiral – “Free” recursion and draw seven. You will shotgun through your hand with this deck, that this just gives you free draw seven with almost no drawbacks.
Time Stretch – Part of the infinite turns combo, also works with suspend. Just be aware that suspending this will earn you an enormous amount of aggro. Combos with other suspend cards obviously.
Tolaria West - Lets you tutor for all the utility lands in the deck. If you have it in your opening hand, you can transmute on turn 3 for Ancient Tomb. Turn turn 4, play Jhoira and suspend. In late game, it enables you to find Boseiju so you can play a game winning spell uncounterable. Targets are; any land, Mana Crypt, Lotus Bloom, Pact of Negation.
Treachery – “Free” control magic. Lets you steal a fatty and use them as a blocker, while still leaving counterspell and suspend mana up. I never feel bad about having this in my opening hand.
Trinket Mage – Fetches so much of this deck. If you get it early, get Sol Ring. If you get it late, get Sensei’s. Gives you a blocker. If you get really stretched, you can combo with Kiki-Jiki to fetch Lotus Bloom or Artifact Lands.
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre – “Vindicate” Eldrazi. The vindicate aspect becomes very relevant because it enables you to deal with problem enchantments or planeswalkers that survived the board being blown up.
Wheel of Fortune – This deck empties it hand very quickly and the ability to draw seven is amazing. Screws with other combo players, and the color requirements are quite easy. Never regret topdecking this card.
Wild Ricochet – I play with a lot of blue players in my meta and this lets me snag extra turns. If you get really mana starved, you can use it on a green player’s spell to ramp.
Cards I like but I haven't included *
Boomerang - A good card for duels, and as an answer to any permanent. But if I was going to run a Boomerang for multiplayer, I would run Wipe Away, and I don't even run that.
Great Furnace – Artifact lands receive both love and hate. They die as a casualty of cards like Austere Command. But they are also tutorable by Tezzeret and Trinket Mage.
Intuition - I don't own a copy so I have never had a chance to test it. It might work in this deck, I am not sure.
Tunnel Vision - Very funny the first time with Hinder/Proteus Staff/Spell Crumple/etc, but other than that, wildly inconsistent. You can use it for a desperation tutor if necessary. The largest problem is the mana cost.
Wipe Away - Fantastic card, just never was very relevant in my meta. Its good if you have a lot of commanders like Azami.
Cards I don't like and Why *
Arcane Denial – This is actually a bad counterspell. It gives your opponent card advantage over you. But if you are going for the win, they may never draw the cards because there won’t be a next upkeep. This decklist in particular can be starve for colored mana sometimes, and so there will be times I can cast this but I can’t cast Counterspell. Its a matter of consistency, and I found this to be consistently bad for card advantage.
Clockspinning - Cute, but the buyback is ridiculously expensive. 5 mana to remove 2 time counters seems like a good deal, until you realize that it is an overcosted spell that has no synergy with anything else in your deck. Jhoira got tucked? So what does Clockspinning do now? Pump up Tezzeret by 1 counter at the cost of 4?
Halimar Depths – A terrible land to hit in mid game, it is fantastic as your first land drop because it enables you to plan out the next crucial turns. Has cute synergy with Future Sight. Would be better if it was Scry. Include it if you want.
It that Betrays - No protection, and the people I play with use a lot of spot removal. If you can get the combo off where you blow up the table, his annihilate will steal their lands and its game over, but it doesn't happen consistently enough for me. If you are trying to build a Jhoira deck and hurting for an Eldrazi, then he's ok.
Insurrection - Bad card to suspend. It will generate you an enormous amount of aggro, because people will know that soon you will be stealing all their creatures and beating attacking them.
Jokulhaups - Was originally in the deck, but I found I was drawing my mass land destruction cards a little too often, so I cut one. Each of the other three have individual advantages; Apocalypse (low cost), Obliterate (can't be countered), Decree (cycle/gets rid of hands). This had no real strengths, so I cut it.
Niv-Mizzet - Lackluster outside of combo. All of the combo pieces you are use with him, have no synergy with the rest of the deck.
Paradox Haze - At 3 cmc it fills the slot where we want to be playing Jhoira. It also synergizes with Suspend but nothing else in this deck. And then there's the biggest reason; Stax players. If you cast this on yourself, Smokestack will make you it's *****.
Reforge the Soul - Very wanting in comparision to Wheel of Fortune. It will take work to miracle it consistently. Also, Jhoira does not want a deck full of "Draw 7"s. That works better in a Niv-Mizzet deck. Yes, we do want a couple to refill our hand, but we are not trying to chain them together. And so, use the better options first.
Rewind - Allows you to counter and still have mana open to counter. However its terrible when defending your combo since it untaps on resolution, and is just a 4 cmc Cancel till then.
Shivan Sand-mage - Same deal as Timecrafting. Has no synergy with the rest of your deck. Its terrible to Proteus Staff into when you have nothing to suspend. Can be Bribery'd to screw you over.
Temporal Mastery - Exiles, so you can't recur it. Simple as that. No infinite combo, just a blue Explore.
Timecrafting - Entirely dependant on how reliably you can get a spell in suspend. It is a touch expensive, you'll be paying 3 where Fury Charm will only charge you 2. I cut it because again, it does nothing after Jhoira get removed.
Turnabout - Enables infinite mana with cards like Reiterate. But it doesn't really synergize with the rest of the deck. And we have half our mana in mana rocks, so you either untap lands or artifacts. If it works, you have infinite mana and can do whatever you want, but I've never got it to consistently work.
Mana Drain - Counter a random spell on the way back to your turn 2 or 3, and depending on what you ramp you already have out, you can play Jhoira, then suspend something straight away.
Temporal Manipulation - A Time Walk that can't be Redirected. Strictly better because when we attempt to go off with infinite turns, it can't be stolen.
Timetwister - Reload our hand, and gives us instant speed graveyard shuffle with Quicken. Also the only legal P9 card in EDH.
I can't think of anything else to add at the moment. I am sure that I will have more to say as it comes to me, so I will just append this. Please feel free to comment.
Yes I am aware that Biomechanika has a Jhoira Primer already. But at the time of posting, there are 33 cards difference if you don't count basic lands. Meaning he has 33 cards in his deck, that I don't. His build is clearly more reliant on being able to suspend cards, such as Aeon Chronicler. While I have tried to make a decklist that is more resilient, but as an unfortunate result has less juicy suspend options.
And he hasn't updated since 05-10-2011
* Please note, I intended for these lists to include the huge list of options available when building a Jhoira deck. But this does take time. And so I add them as I go, whenever I remember.
[FONT=Verdana]Hello, my name is MrTyx. I got into Magic thanks to a now ex-girlfriend, but I enjoyed playing it so much I kept playing after we broke up. I fell in love with Izzet colors very early on, tried to force it in standard every chance I got and failed frequently. I got heavily into EDH and quit Standard completely at the time that Delver of Secrets was making up 90% of decks. I play currently in Melbourne, Australia. Feel free to message me if you are around there. Commander taught me a lot about the complex interactions of Magic rules, which led me to apply to become a level 1 Judge. I am currently at university, play EDH every weekend and Judge FNMs at every chance I get. This is my guide on Jhoira of the Ghitu. It is written from that experience.
This deck is designed to be played in a competitive meta. It is at the most basic level a combo deck but it isn't a linear combo deck. I go into this in more detail in the Deck Philosophy section. When you read this guide, please remember: there are plenty of cards you can include in your Jhoira deck that aren't right or wrong, just more relevant for your meta. I have been refining my list for a long time and occasionally I will look at it, think of cards like Oblivion Stone. I think "I wonder if this would work. I mean, I could fetch it with Tezzeret the Seeker...". And regardless of whether or not its a great card in your or my Jhoira deck, I have not gotten into a game recently where I have gone "Man, I really wish this X was a Oblivion Stone" and so I haven't included it.[/FONT]
[FONT=VERDANA]I want to tell you why to play Jhoira, but I also want to say that I know that other people may have different reasons for their commander choices. I play in a competitive meta and try to win. And maybe you play Jhoira and suspend cards like Vizzerdrix for funsies. I'm not criticizing your choices and your deck is just as valid as mine, but I will say that mindset is not the same as this deck or this guide.
Play Jhoira if;
You like the explosive nature of UR and getting big threats out early.
You enjoy playing a political multiplayer game and appreciate that sometimes you are the biggest threat at the table.
You want to get games moving.
You enjoy complex interactions that require timing. Especially with the Suspend mechanic.
You really enjoy blowing up the table. Like really really enjoy it. I'm talking "wants Worldfire unbanned" enjoyment.
Don't play Jhoira if;
You hate Mass Land Destruction or want to play a competitive Jhoira decklist without or Mass Land Destruction is banned in your meta. Just play RUG and use the ramp that Green provides.
You can't handle people rightfully attacking you. You shouldn't be playing a commander that is powerful.
You want to be a spellslinger with a high density of instants and sorceries. Melek, Izzet Paragon and either of the Niv-Mizzets are much better.
You want to build a straight linear combo deck (for a tournament maybe). I've found other decks such as Hermit Druid, Zur or Arcum Daggson to be faster and more consistent when build for a straight combo.
[FONT=VERDANA]At the time I write this guide there are 7 possible Izzet Commanders[/URL]. When I first built this deck there were only 3. I picked Jhoira because I was told Niv-Mizzet was lame and also because I thought Tibor and Lumia were bad. I love the deck, I love the commander and I have been refining it slowly over time. I have seen a lot of other Jhoira decklists and learnt from their mistakes. I am proud of my current list and am happy to share it with you.
When I first built Jhoira, I built an optimistic decklist. The kind of deck that just assumed that no one at the table was going to counter or kill my stuff and definitely that no one was going to attack me. Since then I have learnt. There must be a balance between threats and defensive cards. If you play a deck entirely full of the most broken fatties and spells, you are going to fold to any control deck or any deck that can get their combo off faster than you.
I have moved a lot over the last couple years and the deck has played against a variety of different metas because of it. I have added and removed cards based on people's suggestions. I learnt that there are a lot of people who have never built or played a Jhoira deck, but have strong opinions of cards that constitute "autoincludes" in any Jhoira deck. For example Detritivore which I was once told was an autoinclude in Jhoira, until the day I learnt that the ability is not optional and that if you control the only nonbasic lands you must target them. I intended to address as many of these cards in this guide as possible and you can see this in the FAQ - Why don't you play?.[/FONT]
[FONT=VERDANA]Its important before we discuss the decklist to discuss why we are playing this deck. We can't talk about individual card choices unless you the reader have the same mindset as me regarding what this deck is trying to do. There is no point saying "We picked this card because its competitive" when we haven't even explained that we want to be competitive in the first place.
I play this deck to win because I derive enjoyment from winning. I play this deck with people who also have this attitude. I do not sit down with this deck and this mindset with people who are new to the game or playing casual decks. I do not get enjoyment from other people's lack of enjoyment. We assume that our opponents are not only going to try and win, but they are also going to try and disrupt us from winning. That means that they will try to find and play cards that will disrupt our gameplan. We need resilience so we can protect our gameplan and win the game. We also assume the reverse, that we will find and play cards that disrupt our opponent's gameplan.
Our disruption must be as widespread as possible. Stabilizer is a great counter to an Astral Slide deck. But its a dead card versus almost every other deck.
We must have multiple win conditions that are as immune to disruption as possible. Eon Hub is a great counter to Jhoira and we need win conditions that are unaffected by it, or a way to remove it. We also need to have enough physical cards in our win conditions that we can beat cards like Sadistic Sacrament.
In summary, our mindset is; We want to win. Our opponents want to win. Stop them, and protect your own win con. Be prepared for any disruption.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Before looking at budget alternatives, we need to talk about what function each card serves in the deck and why we are playing it. I have broken each card in the deck down in some main categories.
Basic Lands
10 Islands - We need to keep that nonbasic count high enough that we are not blown out by cards like Ruination or Back to Basics. Obviously those cards will still hurt but at least we can mitigate them. Its also helpful when you have a monoblue player who plays Gauntlet of Power, which happens occasionally.
5 Snow-Covered Mountains - The most red mana symbols that you will need is three for Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. Five is just a little extra padding that only really comes up once in every hundred games. Snow-Covered because monored decks like to play Snow-Covered Mountains so that they can get value out of Scrying Sheets and Extraplanar Lens. If a monored deck imprints a Snow-Covered Mountain under Extraplanar Lens then Mountains will not tap for extra mana because the name of the land imprinted is "Snow-Covered Mountain" but ours will. It is for metagaming. Its important to remember that these are basics which gives them protection from nonbasic hate.
Dual Lands/Fetches Volcanic Island - Best UR dual in the game.
Steam Vents - The second best UR dual in the game, and the two life is pretty negligible.
Colorless Utility Lands Ancient Tomb - This card is on powerlevel with fast artifact mana. It lets us power out cards a turn earlier than we should have. It lets you do cute things like a first turn Izzet Signet.
Boseiju, Who Shelters All - This is an awkward card in a Jhoira deck. It is not helpful for casting Jhoira or suspending. And cards that come out of suspend are cast without paying mana cost, so unless your opponent has a Thalia in play then you can't use Boseiju to make them uncounterable. However it is an important card to resolve a big hardcast spell like Time Stretch. This is a good example of the deck philosophy in action, expecting our opponents to interact with us. We also don't have very many counterspells, so it helps make them count.
Crystal Vein - Not on the same power level as Ancient Tomb but it does allow for some clutch plays. It can be "cute" with Crucible of Worlds. Its a very balls deep card and sometimes you just have to go for a combo.
Desolate Lighthouse - Good for when the games go long and you need some filtering power. Especially if you don't want to give your opponents cards using Mikokoro, Center of the Sea. It also serves another unique purpose. It is an instant speed uncounterable way to discard an Eldrazi. This is important if an opponent tries to deck you and the Eldrazi is in your hand or if an opponent tries to Reanimate a card from your graveyard.
High Market - An instant speed uncounterable way to sacrifice either Jhoira or a creature that has come out of suspend. This card really comes in handy when your opponents play Mind Control-style cards.
Reliquary Tower - A good card against the Draw-Pain cards in my meta that try to flood you with cards. It is also good with Consecrated Sphinx.
Riptide Laboratory - Part of a combo with Archaeomancer and Time Warp for infinite turns. It also serves double duty with High Market as a way of protecting Jhoira from theft effects. Although its not as good because it is on resolution and it costs mana. You can also use it to repeatedly bounce Snapcaster Mage/Trinket Mage, its not a combo but it is a nice value engine.
Strip Mine - Spot removal for problem lands. Can be used to starve opponents off a color during a clutch moment in your gameplan. It also combos with Crucible of Worlds for a sort of soft lock although without cards like Azusa, Lost but Seeking (which you can Bribery), it isn't as good.
Cycle/Tutor Lands Forgotten Cave/Lonely Sandbar/Remote Isle/Smoldering Crater - I'm personally a big fan of cycle lands because they give you the consistency that you need. In the words of Travis Woo, it "lets you play Magic". Also they have a sort of psuedo-card draw with Crucible of Worlds. I don't find the CIPT aspect to be a problem as long as you plan your gameplan around that. They also let you dig deeper when you resolve an Omniscience and just need to hit an action spell.
Tolaria West - Fetches any land in the deck. For example you might need Boseiju, Who Shelters All. Also gets the zero cmc cards such as Mana Crypt and Lotus Bloom. It costs three cmc, so it occupies the same spot as Jhoira which makes it awkward. But it does really help when you know that you need a specific land. And like the cycle lands it works with Crucible of Worlds.
Grim Monolith - Another fast artifact mana rock. Its a little bit awkward because if we cast this on turn 2, and hit all our land drops, then we have 6 mana. That's not enough to cast Jhoira and suspend 2 cards. Its still just really good, and the ability to untap it at anytime is really helpful compared to Mana Vault.
Gilded Lotus - Its a bad suspend target and it can't be fetched by Tezzeret the Seeker right away. But it gives us some reach into the late game. Its also just a nice thing to have in play when people play land hate like Winter Orb.
Izzet Signet - Fast mana, almost as good as Sol Ring (Who are we kidding, Sol Ring is god-teir good).
Lotus Bloom - Can be suspended on first turn, and if you only hit land drops, gives you 7 mana on turn 4. Can also be fetched by Tezzeret the Seeker for free. If you cast Tezzeret into Decree of Annihilation, this gives you another good target to fetch. Obviously its pretty terrible lategame topdeck, but you can discard it to cards like Thirst for Knowledge.
Mana Crypt - Gives you the mana to combo off 2 turns early. This card is broken.
Mana Vault - This lets you suspend a card as early as turn 2. If you go turn 1 land and mana vault, turn 2 land. Then you will have 5 mana available. That is enough to cast Jhoira and suspend a card. That is really fast.
Mind Stone - Mana rock that can be cycled late game when you just need to see more cards. Also can be cute with things like Mystic Tutor into Force of Will if thats ever necessary.
Sol Ring - Because this card is really really good.
Thran Dynamo - Its another mana rock, but it also gives us a really good Tezzeret the Seeker target. If on turn 5 we play Tezzeret, -4 for this, and hit our land drop on turn 6 then we will have 9 mana.
Utility Artifacts/Tutor Package Crucible of Worlds - Makes sure we can hit our land drops, helps us fight land hate, and gets cute with our cycle lands. Even if our opponent's don't destroy our lands, Crucible interacts with 11 of our lands on its own. That's good.
Crystal Shard - Its a combo card in that it goes infinite with cards like Archaeomancer and Chancellor of the Spires. It also protects our creatures from theft or removal. It bounces creatures of opponents that tap out, usually slowing them down. It also works with Sneak Attack. It occasionally does really desperate plays, like bouncing Jhoira to discard her to Desolate Lighthouse.
Phyrexian Metamorph - You can Tezzeret -4 this guy out and copy a creature or artifact. But if you announce Tezzeret -4, that is the last time your opponents can react before you copy. This means you can do some weird things. It also combos with Sneak Attack to get artifacts.
Tezzeret the Seeker - He tutors artifacts into play, and he can untap our artifacts like Mana Vault and Grim Monolith. He survives our board wipes and makes for some interesting interactions. At worse you play him and tutor Thran Dynamo.
Sensei's Divining Top - Helps you filter your draws and use a shuffle effect if your next three draws aren't helpful. It has a combo with Future Sight to become "1: Draw a card".
Spellskite - Protects Jhoira and your bombs from removal because it kinda sucks to lose Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre to Swords to Plowshares. But it really shines in stopping your opponents from targeting their own creatures with spells like auras. Its a meta choice. Also occasionally you can Tezzeret -2 it as a blocker for Tezzeret so you can get multiple uses out of him.
Counterspells Cryptic Command - Does double duty as being a counterspell, but also a bounce effect to help use deal with problem permanents. Also if you know that someone is going to attack you, then you can use it as Fog to tap down all their attackers.
Force of Will - This is the best counter spell in the game. Force of Will is the card that keeps Legacy combo decks in check and its just as useful in EDH. There are a few ways in this deck to find it, like Mystical Tutor and a draw effect at instant speed. Its definitely a meta choice though. Is the card disadvantage worth it, I say yes.
Hinder - Hinder is here to stop problem commanders. Some decks are so commander-centric that if you put it on the bottom of their library, they scoop.
Remand - Mainly here as a tempo play. Often there is nothing to cast on turn 2 if we didn't draw a mana rock. Its also because the UU cost on Counterspell can be hard sometimes on turn 2.
Board Wipes Blasphemous Act - In EDH, there is always 8+ creatures on the table. This is R - deal 13 damage to all creatures. Its pure gas.
Cyclonic Rift - Early on its a Disperse that can't be Redirected. Late game, its a one-sided board wipe. If you cast this at the EoT of player to the right, then untap and cast Wheel of Fortune you will get unbelievable value.
Decree of Annihilation - This is one of our two MLD spells and the better of the two. Most games its going to be suspended or hard casted. You can cycle it to uncounterable and instant speed Armageddon the table, but usually there are problem permanents in play that you need to get rid of, and for that you'll need to hardcast it. This is also a pretty funny spell to play after you resolve Omniscience because everyone is now in topdeck mode, but you can cast anything.
Evacuation - Instant speed bounce all creatures. Useful when you are getting attack or when the board gets flooded. It can be recurred with Archaeomancer if you really just need to slow the game down. Its not amazing because smart deckbuilders include lots of haste enablers in EDH.
Obliterate - The other one of our two MLD spells. The biggest reason we play this one is because its uncounterable compared to Jokulhaups.
Vandalblast - This card is a meta choice. There are a lot of problem artifacts where I play and we can't play Shatterstorm because we will wipe our own board.
Card Draw Brainstorm - Instant speed, digs 3 cards deep. It just helps smooth out your hand.
Consecrated Sphinx - This guy is broken levels of good. If you get one trigger off him before he's removed, you have gained card advantage. If you cast Omniscience, this guy and then Wheel of Fortune, you will win the game.
Future Sight - Not technically card draw. It lets you filter past land drops, it lets you plan your turn and it has a combo with Sensei's Divining Top. The cost is a little prohibitive and its not the best suspend target. But it does live through both MLD spells and it'll surprise you how much value you get.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - This guy is going to die as soon as you play him. But if you use -0 to Brainstorm you will always get net cards. Everything else he does is just a bonus.
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur - He draws you seven if he survives, which is what the deck needs. He stops people who like to draw lots. He's a meta choice, and you won't need him until you play against a deck that he destroys.
Impulse - Instant speed card draw, so we can keep suspend and counter spell mana up. It digs 4 cards deep, and thats more than most spells. Its also not actually "draw" so its useful versus Nekusar, the Mindrazer decks which seem to have been popping up.
Reforge the Soul - Wheel of Fortune #2. It can be setup with Brainstorm, Mystical Tutor and many other cards. You can even draw it during someone else's turn using a card that cycles and resolve it during someone's endstep or mid-combo.
Thirst for Knowledge - We have a good number of artifacts in the deck and some of them are dead draws. Even if you don't discard an artifact, you drew 3 and discarded 3 which breaks even. It also works with Crucible of Worlds.
Time Spiral - Wheel of Fortune that doesn't cost mana. Oh and its graveyard hate. You can also suspend it, then when its is going to resolve, suspend 3 more cards. You will untap 6 lands for free and draw a fresh hand. Its total value. Also if you resolve Omniscience this is the best card. Because it untaps lands so you can cycle dead cards like the cycle lands.
Wheel of Fortune - This deck has fast artifact mana and a way to suspend cards from our hand. We can just dump our hand, and get a fresh one.
Fatties Akroma, Angel of Fury - She is in here because some decks will have literally no answers to her. Especially if you resolve Chromatic Lantern. This is a meta choice and only good if you have mono-blue players to prey on.
Blightsteel Colossus - One-shot robot. If you resolve this and then Obliterate then you can just go around the table killing people. You can Sneak Attack him in and just kill someone on turn 3. Theorectically you can tutor him into play with Tezzeret the Seeker but I have literally never done this.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - One of the two Eldrazi's we play. He is vulnerable to removal but he nets you cards.
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre - The other of the two Eldrazi's we play. He is harder to remove, and Vindicates something. But if he gets exiled right after he comes into play, it feels crummy.
Combo Pieces Archaeomancer - Sometimes it gets back a value instant or sorcery like Bribery. Other times it'll get back Time Warp, and then if you find a way to bounce it or clone it, you can go infinite.
Chancellor of the Spires - Usually you can get some good value off this guy. But why play him over Spelltwine or Diluvian Primordial? Because he doesn't exile the spell. So we can go infinite with cards like Rite of Replication or Time Warp if they are in the opponent's graveyard. Very important, in the opponent's graveyard. He can also be Sneak Attacked in for some cute triks.
Time Magic Time Stretch - Same reason as Time Warp but because we suspending we don't really care about the mana cost. If you cast this with Omniscience, you should win.
Time Warp - Extra turns are valuable in Jhoira. They let you untap, so you they basically mana free. They remove a time counter, and give you an extra attack step and extra draw.
Miscellaneous Acquire - If you know your opponent's decks, this is "Tutor their best artifact into play". This and Bribery get better when your opponents have better decks.
Bribery - If you know your opponent's decks, this is "Tutor their best creature into play". This and Acquire get better when your opponents have better decks.
Electrolyze - It kills a lot of X/2 problem creatures, including commanders. I put it in to kill Kaalia of the Vast and left it in because apparently it kills half the commanders in my meta.
Fury Charm - This is the only "Remove time counters" spell that isn't a deck draw. Late game, it becomes a Shatter.
Leyline of Anticipation - Playing as late as possible gives you information advantage. It means you can cast Jhoira as instant speed, and suspend at instant speed.
Mystical Tutor - This deck has a few silver bullet instants and sorceries and this lets you tutor for them. It can set up Reforge the Soul, including just give you a shuffle when you need it. Instant speed is really really good.
Rite of Replication - This used to just be to copy Primeval Titan before he got banned. Now its just to get crazy value from cards with "Enter battlefield" triggers. If you suspend it, you only have to pay 5 to get 5 copies.
Snapcaster Mage - We have enough instants and sorceries that having this guy to recur them is valuable.
Wipe Away - I included this to beat a durdly Chainer, Dementia Master deck that was in our meta. Since they, it has stayed in because it seems to beat a lot of "unbeatable combos". Split second is a great mechanic.[/FONT]
[FONT=VERDANA]This deck is kind of a money deck. As such it is important to list some alternatives. Here are some good budget options to replace cards. Budget options are only for cards valued over $1, which means if it isn't listed below it is worth less than a dollar. I haven't included options for lands because there really isn't any alternatives. Replace them with Islands, Mountains or budget fetches like Terramorphic Expanse. Also remember that some cards serve a unique role and have no alternatives. Feel free to replace them with any random utility spell or something that cantrips or a card that you feel is particularly powerful in your meta. For example you won't find a card that does what Acquire does, but you could throw a Repulse in your deck to fill that space. But cards like Chromatic Lantern can be replaced by cards like Darksteel Ingot.
Mana Vault - Grim Monolith or Basalt Monolith. Neither of these are really budget though. Apparently fast artifact mana cards are worth some money. Who knew.
Obliterate - Jokulhaups, Apocalypse. The main advantage of Obliterate is obviously the can't be countered though. And you don't discard your hand like Apocalypse.
Omniscience - Dream Halls, but it is nowhere near as good or even as cheap. There really is no replacement.
Snapcaster Mage - No good replacement. You can get Instants and Sorceries back with cards like Mnemonic Wall and Izzet Chronarch, but you aren't going to get that instant speed.
Spellskite - Nothing serves the same function, but for protecting your creatures Lightning Greaves may be acceptable. The budget option to Lightning Greaves is Swiftfoot Boots.
[FONT=Verdana]Clockspinning/Jhoira's Timebug/Rift Elemental/Shivan Sand-Mage/Timebender/Timecrafting - These cards are really optimistic. They are amazing if you have a godlike opening hand. But they are usually utterly useless topdecks and in late game you approach enough mana to just hard cast your threats. If you want a really rough way to evaluate these cards, ask yourself "Do I expect Jhoira to be counter or killed before I can suspend a threat?". If the answer is "Yes", then consider how useless these cards these cards are with nothing suspended.
Paradox Haze - There are two problems with this card. The first is that it costs the same CMC as Jhoira. That means you have to choose which to cast on t3 and you should be casting Jhoira. And if you then cast this on t4, presumably you can't afford to suspend anything. The second problem is that it duplicates any negative effects that happen during your upkeep. Trust me, you don't know how bad this card is until the guy playing stax drops Braids, Cabal Minion and you are out of the game.
Greater Gargadon - Because of how priority works. If I have Greater Gargadon and Obliterate suspended and Obliterate is on 1 time counter, I put the trigger to remove the time counter from Obliterate on the stack. When it resolves, I cast Obliterate if able. At this point, I have to hold priority and sacrifice my permanents in response to my own Obliterate before anyone else can respond. If I wait to see if anyone else responds to Obliterate and they don't, then it resolves and I do not have a chance to sacrifice my permanents. This means that sometimes you will sacrifice all your permanents and then have Obliterate countered with a Venser, Shaper Savant/Time Stop/Mindbreak Trap. Then you usually only have a 9/7 beater and nothing else. Which is pretty bad. HOWEVER, this card does get significantly better if you have cards like Dominus of Fealty/Insurrection/Mass Mutiny.
Jokulhaups/Apocalypse/Devastation/Boom/Bust/Epicenter - You don't want too much MLD. Having two in your hand at once is awkward and drawing one when you really needed a threat is equally as bad. Of all the MLD available, my current choices are the best. You know, until they unban Worldfire.
Acid Rain/Flashfires/Wake of Destruction - In my experience, once players learn that you have these cards in your deck, they will try and kill you first. The guy playing Mono-Green will target you first every time and he is completely right to do so. Acid Rain will knock him out of the game and no one else, so of course is he going to target you.
Enter The Infinite - If there was any deck in any format that wants this card, it is a Jhoira EDH. And even we don't want it. Don't get me wrong, its a fun card. But you basically have to build your entire deck around it and we aren't doing that. If your opponents see you suspend it and have time to search up an answer, then there are a lot of answers that can kill you easily. [URL="http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=11127241&postcount=19"]I talk about it in detail in this post.[/URL]
Devastation Tide - This is purely personal preference. There are good reasons to pick this over cards like Wipe Away or Evacuation. Based purely on personal experience, I find Devastation Tide being a Sorcery makes it pretty meh to me.
Mindlock Orb/Stranglehold - Very much a meta choice. Also since they are permanents, often times your opponents will have time to play around them or destroy them. If Shadow of Doubt was allowed to be played in Jhoira, I would play it.
Personal Tutor - Definitely better if you are playing the Enter the Infinite version. In my current decklist I prefer draw spells because this only hits Sorceries and is sorcery-speed. Like all tutors, its value entirely depends on the number of targets in your deck. Its also better if you play Temporal Mastery.
Gamble - I am not a fan of random discard and I don't like Gamble for the same reason I don't like Desperate Ravings.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir - He no longer kills opponent's Teferis with legend rule and he gets Bribery'd out of my deck.[/FONT]
[FONT=Century Gothic]FAQ - Other questions[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]When do you cast Jhoira? You have three options here; You play her when you have three mana and hope she survives to your untap step. You play her when you have five mana so you can immediately suspend a card. Or you don't play her at all because your hand has enough gas, or you don't have anything good to suspend. The third option means that if you want to play her later on when you have a combo, she is still cheap.
Is it worth suspending 5-6 CMC cards? Ideally you want to get in a situation where you have Jhoira out and you have mana open to play instant speed spells. And if you have two mana left at the EOT, you spend it to suspend something like Bribery/Acquire/Future Sight. However, if you have no instant speed cards in hand, you can just cast these cards during your main phase. Whether or not you cast them depends on the game state.
Why do you not play nonbasic land X? The mana base in this deck is something that I have been working on for a long time. You have to walk a very fine line. You don't want too many nonbasic lands or else you get blown out by Ruination style cards. Inversely, you don't want too many basic lands or else you get blown out by Boil style cards and miss out on the value of nonbasic lands. At this point, every nonbasic land must justify removing another nonbasic land to replace it and I am happy with all my current nonbasics.
Why do you play Snow-Covered Mountains, but not Snow-Covered Islands? Occasionally I play against mono-red decks, which use Extraplanar Lens. They usually combine this with Snow-Covered Mountains. This means that only their mountains tap for two mana because their mountains are named "Snow-Covered Mountain" and everyone else's mountains are named "Mountain". Also, Snow-Covered Mountains let mono-red decks use cards like Scrying Sheets. So I play Snow-Covered Mountains so that if they use Snow-Covered Mountains, I also get the benefit. Note, Snow-Covered Mountains are still basic lands.
Ok, so why don't you play Snow-Covered Islands? Because most monoblue decks aren't hurting for card draw so they don't want to shell out the money for snow basics. Which is a little bit odd because there are some good cards, like Sunstone. But to date, I've never seen monoblue decks use snow Islands so they could play Extraplanar Lens, so I haven't started yet either.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]If you are planning on playing Jhoira, it's probably a good idea to read the rules on Suspend.
702.60. Suspend
702.60a Suspend is a keyword that represents three abilities. The first is a static ability that functions while the card with suspend is in a player’s hand. The second and third are triggered abilities that function in the exile zone. “Suspend N—[cost]” means “If you could begin to cast this card by putting it onto the stack from your hand, you may pay [cost] and exile it with N time counters on it. This action doesn’t use the stack,” and “At the beginning of your upkeep, if this card is suspended, remove a time counter from it,” and “When the last time counter is removed from this card, if it’s exiled, play it without paying its mana cost if able. If you can’t, it remains exiled. If you cast a creature spell this way, it gains haste until you lose control of the spell or the permanent it becomes.”
702.60b A card is "suspended" if it's in the exile zone, has suspend and has a time counter on it.
702.60c Casting a spell as an effect of its suspend ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2e–g.
Some FAQs about Suspend
If you have two spells on one time counter, they can't both be countered by a spell such as Mindbreak Trap/Swift Silence/Counterflux. The reason is because when you enter your upkeep, you must place the two separate triggers on the stack. When the topmost trigger resolves, you must cast that card if able. If your opponents want to counter that spell, they cannot counter the other spell because the other spell is still in exile with a time counter on it.
If you have two spells on one time counter in the same example as above and your opponent counters the first spell with a card like Render Silent, then the second spell cannot be cast and will remain in exile.
If a spell is in exile with no time counters on it, it is no longer suspended. That means that you can't kickstart it with a card like Timecrafting.
You can only suspend Ancestral Vision during your main phase because it is a Sorcery, so you can only begin to cast it during your main phase when the stack is empty and you have priority.
You can use Jhoira's ability to suspend Ancestral Vision at instant speed. This is because it is Jhoira's ability exiling it, not the suspend printed on Ancestral Vision.
You can use Leyline of Anticipation to suspend Ancestral Vision at instant speed, because you can begin to cast it at instant speed.
If you use Quicken, you can suspend Ancestral Vision at instant speed and it won't use up Quicken's effect. This is because you can "begin to cast", but you didn't actually. You suspended it.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir prevents you from casting your spells when they come out of suspend, but not from suspending using Jhoira. Which means you can suspend them, and have four turns to figure out how to kill Teferi.
Teferi will prevent you from casting your spells at instant speed even if you control Leyline of Anticipation. This is because "can't" trumps "can" in Magic.
You can pay the kicker cost on cards like Rite of Replication when it comes out of suspend. This means you will pay 5 for five copies.
Spells that come out of suspend are cast, which means they trigger abilities like Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre.
If an opponent control an effect like Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, you will need to pay 1 when you cast it. Interestingly this means that if there is no Thalia is play you must play the card if able, but if there is a Thalia in play and you don't have mana in your mana pool, you can choose to not cast it leaving it in exile indefinitely.
If an opponent has Upwelling and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben in play and you have floating mana, then however you must pay. This is the opposite of the above example. Magic is weird like that. This is because you are forced to pay floating mana, but it won't force you to tap a land for mana.
Note that exiling the card is part of the cost for Jhoira's ability. This means that if an opponent uses a card to counter the activated ability, such as Stifle, the card remains in exile without time counters or the suspend ability.
[FONT=Verdana]Obliterate/Decree of Annihilation + Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre/Kozilek, Butcher of Truth/Blightsteel Colossus - Suspend any pair. The most famous combo. This is how you are going to try and win most games. Four turns later, both spells will come in. Choose to remove the time counter from the mass LD before the fatty. You do this by saying you want to place the trigger for removing a time counter from the fatty on the stack first, then the trigger for removing a time counter from the mass LD on the stack second. The time counter gets removed from the mass LD, you cast it and blow up the board. Then the trigger for the time counter on the fatty resolves, you cast him, he has haste and swings.
Deceiver Exarch/Pestermite + Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker - Infinite hasty tokens. Each time you create a copy of Deceiver Exarch or Pestermite, you untap Kiki-Jiki. You can then repeat this process infinite times. If someone has a lock in place, it might be necessary to Acquire/Bribery another combo piece, or include cards like Ashnod's Altar/Blue Sun's Zenith so you can deck people with infinite mana.
Archaeomancer + Evacuation - Repeatable evacuation. Play Evacuation so it is in your graveyard then play Archaeomancer. Evacuation bounces the Archaeomancer and repeat. A rather expensive combo at 5UUUU mana but it occasionally comes in hand when you are drawing a lot of aggro.[/FONT]
The temptation with crafting an example of a good hand is to make it utterly godlike. We have two lands an a Mana Vault. Most hands with a Mana vault are already looking good. This means we can go turn 1 Scalding Tarn for Volcanic Island, and play our Mana Vault. Then on turn 2, we can play our Island, cast Jhoira and suspend because we have 3UR available. We probably suspend Obliterate first and then Kozilek. There is the risk that Jhoira gets removed before you untap for turn 3, which means you can't suspend Kozilek. But if you suspend Kozilek before Obliterate, he will die to your own Obliterate.
You'll want to save Remand to ensure your Obliterate resolves. Don't throw it away for value unless you need to protect yourself. The last card, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is likely a dead card in this hand because your only two creatures (Jhoira and Kozilek) are legendary and was included to avoid making an example hand godlike.
This hand has lands, but we can't cast either Kiki-Jiki, Future Sight or even Jhoira. We can go t1 Ancient Tomb into Mind Stone, but we aren't leading into anything. I would still keep this hand though. I would go t1 Lonely Sandbar, t2 Ancient Tomb into Mind Stone into EOT Impulse. Part of what makes this hand acceptable is Impulse, it lets us dig four cards deep for something. If we don't hit anything good off Impulse, we can probably at least grab a land. If that land produces blue, we can go t4 Future Sight. From here we are just looking for a game plan. Maybe if we hit a Tezzeret the Seeker or Trinket Mage, because we can tutor a Sensei's Divining Top. Top will combo that with Future Sight to let use draw a bunch of cards.
We can't cast any spells in our hand. Even if we draw a land, we can only cast Pestermite which does nothing, or we can cast Jhoira and try to suspend Omniscience. However, with no gameplan, and nothing worth casting in hand, suspending Omniscience will likely draw you a lot of focus with no cards to protect yourself. Not a great hand, definitely ship.[/FONT]
Intuition - I am not totally happy with Phantasmal Image and I wanted to try this out. At worst, you can use it politically to say get Island, Island, Force of Will.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]
-1 Phantasmal Image - Cut this for Bearer. This card is no where near as good as it used to be, with the legend rule change and Primeval Titan banned.
+1 Bearer of the Heavens - Playtesting this. So far it's been pretty mediocre. Kinda just waiting for Dack to come out so I can replace it with him.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]-1 Island, +1 Snow-Covered Mountain - I included Sneak Attack and was worried I'd need a bit more red.
My first thought would be to dump the more oppressive cards (Arcane Laboratory, Damping Matrix, Singularity), because you only want to police the game, not shut down certain strategies. Say I'm playing tokens, and have few ways of handling enchantments. That Leyline will shut me out of the game, and make it not fun.
As for things to add, I think you need more countermagic. A lot of cards that can run away with a game do their damage as soon as they hit play, and spot removal doesn't cover that.
Thanks, this is exactly the sort of advice I was after
Which counter magic is worth it? Free ones are obviously the best, since they enable me to counter turn 1 and when tapped out. So far I have;
I play in a very well developed meta with a broad range of archetypes, and nothing is off bounds. I have a rather unique challenge. I want to build a deck to make games more "fair". We find that the most enjoyable games are the ones that last about an hour. Sometimes someone will combo out in under the first 15 minutes, and other games someone will lock down the table for over two hours. We love things like how complex stax will make games, or how fast aggro decks can explode out the gate. And above all, we love the political aspect of EDH.
What are the goals of this deck;
Prevent anyone from winning too early (eg, god hand and went infinite on turn 1)
Prevent the table from ganging up on one person to an unneccesary degree (eg, KILL THIS GUY FOR SOME IRRATIONAL REASON)
What ARE NOT the goals for this deck;
To lockdown the table (eg, infinite board wipes)
To hose one player out of the game by playing cards that create an unfair tilt (eg, Acid Rain)
To win (eg, win?)
Which means we need a suite of answers to problems, preferably instant. Also, we need to be able to reliably find these answers, play them, and if necessary remove them if they do more harm than good. Yes, this means the deck will be playing at card disadvantage. Yes, you might not understand why I'm even bothering. Just humor me. Here's the list so far;
I am posting my Jhoira decklist in the hopes of getting some feedback. I've got it to the point where I consider it a couple cards away from completed. So basically, what I am looking for are singles that I have missed, or major directional changes. I want to know if you look at this list and say "He should be running card X over card Y". I want to know if you say "He should be running more cards on theme X because it will work better".
I am seriously open to any criticism or ideas. I have a couple EDH decks, and Jhoira is my "competitive" one, so nothing is too much of a jerk move. I use it both in 1v1 and multiplayer, but only when playing with people who have decks of similar power as a courtesy,
I have to say, I didn't expect this thread to turn out as interesting as it has. I particularly enjoy how we've slowly been creating a meta game out of this. How well would an Opalescence deck do? Would some Black Lotuses mixed in be better for stability?
Wow, you can chuck a world class whinge.
I've been playtesting him as well, proxied obviously. He can be ridiculously fast. I've gone full aggro with land destruction. Some notable cards; I don't think I've lost a game with Skirk Prospector in my opening hand yet. Seize the Day is a powerhouse, enabling you to win out of nowhere with either Goblin Warchief/Goblin Chieftain. Mana Echoes is obviously bonkers, so I've been using Phyrexian Altar to fulfill my colored mana needs. Keldon Firebombers is really good for dealing with all the green good stuff decks in my meta that just ramp for the first five turns. If someone plays War Tax type effects, Skirk Fire Marshal is a good alternative win con, just make sure you stack it properly.
He works best as an all in. If you are making it past turn 7-ish, you will be wishing you were playing either of the other Worts. Which is fine, if you like RDW, and definitely something to remember when you are building your curve. I would seriously think about every card 5 cmc and above.
He's welcome to ask other people's opinions on a general. Even if that offends your notion of what does and doesn't ruin the spirit of the format. And telling the OP all that just leaves him saying "Ok, but what about my original question?" You should rather answer his question, or make helpful suggestions, even if you don't agree with him.
"I hate Mikaeus, because he just plays Triskelion and wins the game"
"I hate Kiki-Jiki, because he just plays Zealous Conscripts and wins the game"
"I hate Azami, because she just plays Mind Over Matter and wins the game"
etc etc.
Which is fine, just I think you are going to end up with a big list that isn't worth much. And if you hand it to new players and say "Don't play any of these, they are unfun", they are probably going to ask things like "Why play this format if it is so easily ruined?" or even "Why are a few of the precon commanders on this list?". Instead, just let them experience the unfun decks once, and teach them how to answer them. You say you're worried about people 1v4ing a table. That can only work if no one at the table runs answers.
If you're playing Jhoira and you are recasting her once or twice, by the second time she is 7 mana. Its not really worth it, you can almost hard cast your stuff. In my opinion, if this is happening and you are not running any protection, just play RGU, with something like Riku. You can ramp with G just as fast, and your extra turns can be just as effective with copy effects.
Because looking at your decklist, you are not dependant on the suspend mechanic. You have no MLD, like Decree of Annihilation, and no cards like Aeon Chronicler. You could drop all your Jhoira's Timebug and Timecrafting cards, and replace them with ramp effects and get your bombs out around the same time anyway.
If you don't want to do any of that, then the only card recommendations I can make are just general upgrades. Clone should be Phyrexian Metamorph. Darksteel Colossus should be Blightsteel Colossus. Time Reversal should be Time Spiral etc.
I couldn't NEVER pull off this decklist at my LGS.
This deck is running Future Sight and Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur. Future Sight is less fragile in my meta as an enchantment, and Jin-Gitaxias is much more the size of my liking. I feel like you are going to have to be drawing 3+ cards a turn before its function changes from being a budget Jin-Gitaxias, both in price and cmc (probably an overly simplified example).
If I ever posted a budget Jhoira decklist, it would probably be in there.
Unfortunately this seems like two different and opposing goals in a deck. If you are building a deck that wants an explosive start, bouncelands are bad. If you are building a deck that doesn't want an explosive start, city of traitors is bad. Do you get what I mean? And you want to be careful how many bouncelands you run. If you run both, with lots of bouncelands so you have something to consistently get value off your city of traitors, then you can end up in a scenario where your opening hand could have two or three bouncelands and therefore be unplayable. And an easy target for some LD. Maybe you can get it all to work, but it feels forced.
To answer the original question, I don't run it in decks like my Jhoira deck because I am forced to focus on making it resilient and consistent, rather than explosive. Because it feels like you have to tilt your entire deck design one way or the other, to consistency or explosive starts. You can run a lone City of Traitors with no other similar quick mana cards, but are you just hoping to occasionally explode with a god hand? What about the rest of the time? Particularly in UR, not G.
In a less answer heavy meta, I would run. And you would see a whole lot more turn 2 suspends, and crazy shenanigans. But alas
Devastation Tide - I'm not a big fan of miracle cards. Its a combination of things like, they seem like they take a lot of work to get consistent, I play in a meta where you regularly see Howling Mine/Rites of Flourishing/Force Fruition, and this list runs a lot of artifact ramp. I have a copy that I pulled at the prerelease and it hasn't really grabbed me. I might give it a little bit of testing, but I haven't included it as more of a personal preference than on the card's merits.
Misdirection - I have never actually seen this card oddly enough, or at least I've completely forgotten about it. I wonder how often you can get this in hand, with something to pitch, and artifact ramp and something to suspend. I will test this one as well, seems like it could work, especially for random goodstuff like snagging a Time Stretch.
Kira, Glass Spinner - Its good protection for Jhoira and your fatties, but it can be awkward. Firstly it costs 3, which is the spot where we want to be casting Jhoira. Second, it will counter things like Kiki-Jiki because it will counter you attempting to copy or untap. It will also counter you attempting to bounce for Izzet for infinite turns. Third, it will counter Proteus Staff if you have polymorph one of your own guys. Its definitely a good card, and worthy of a mention, but it doesn't fit with my playstyle.
Spellskite - I tried this for a while and didn't like it. But it was when NPH was first released, and the deck has had some revisions again. I will also test this one again. Like Misdirection, I think it will have a lot of value in not only protecting Jhoira but also snagging random buffs, such as game winning auras.
Ancient Tomb - Not sure why I missed this one. This is definitely an include.
Academy Ruins - I was never really statisfied with this, and you are not the first person to suggest it. I think it is better with Mindslaver locks or abusing Nevinyrral's Disk. Its worth a mention, but I've never really liked it.
Tolaria West - This should be on the list. I had it a while ago, but removed it because you can't transmute during another person's turn. A huge part of making this deck resilient is not trying to answer all threats but only the threats that are targeted at you, which means you need to be as reactionary as possible. However, I think I will include it. It will let you tutor for all our utility lands like Ancient Tomb or Bojeiju.
Vedalken Shackles - This isn't included, but thats more as a personal preference. Its worth a mention, but I don't like it as more of a personal preference. I would only play it when I was ready to steal, because if I played it early it would will earn me a lot of unwanted attention.
Mana Crypt - It's on the "To Acquire" list. Definitely include.
I am going to add another section of cards that are good, but that I don't run. Just to give you an idea of options for different metas.
Introduction and Deck History
A huge part of building a Jhoira deck is choosing cards that are relevant to your meta. For example, how much spot removal people play, how long you can expect to keep Jhoira, how do people feel about mass land destruction or infinite turns? The meta I play in, Jhoira will usually die to spot removal or tuck (such as Hinder). So, we need plan B. And plan C. And probably plan D.
The funny thing is, there are plenty of cards you can include that aren't right or wrong, just more relevant for your meta. I have been refining this list for a long time, and occasionally I will look at it, and think of cards like Oblivion Stone, and I think "I wonder if this would work. I mean, I could fetch it with Tezzeret...". And regardless of wether or not its a great card in your or my Jhoira deck, I have not gotten into a game recently where I have gone "Man, I really wish this X was a Oblivion Stone", and so I never included it.
I have been playing Jhoira for a long time now. I have played her in a huge variety of groups while I moved around a lot. In a few of them, I was even not the most hated person on the table. I currently play in Melbourne, with some very competitive players, which is very nice because I can do some really interesting combos without getting hated off the table.
This deck has been through many iterations. It has reached the point where it is "completed" in my mind. It is extremely resilient, it is designed to be played almost entirely during other people's turns and create as little threat as possible for a Jhoira deck. The trick to piloting a deck like this is to know how much you can get away with. Its a difficult concept to explain. If you copy this decklist, play with a group of people and they go all Archenemy on you, you are probably playing it wrong.
If nothing else, this deck has taught me a life lesson. I like building reactionary complex and competitive decks. And I like winning. But occasionally, the best strategy for this deck is to lose. Losing one game, can get the heat off you for the next half dozen games. And you know, there's no prizes on the line, so you don't lose anything
Here is my primer. I am not sure how long these things are supposed to be. As of the time of posting this (2012-05-17), it is almost 5'000 words.
A. Suspend Fatties and blow up the table (eg Blightsteel and Obliterate)
B. Splinter Twin combo (eg Splinter Twin and Pestermite)
C. Infinite Turns (eg Splinter Twin, Izzet Chronarch and Time Warp)
D. Use all these toolbox cards to win somehow (eg Rite of Replication or Bribery)
You laugh at Plan D, but in long drawn out games I find new combos with cards all the time. I had a game once where I was shut down hard, but won by using Acquire to steal Akroma's Memorial and casting Rite of Replication on another guy's Turntimber Ranger. Plan D is important kids.
Playing Jhoira when you have 3 mana; You will get her out fast, but she will have to survive till your next turn till you can suspend. Works best if you have Lightning Greaves. Sometimes even if I don't have suspend worthy cards in my hand, I play Jhoira just so she can eat some removal.
Playing Jhoira when you have 5 mana; You can wait till 5 mana, just be aware that if you wait till then, you are not immune to counterspells. You can play her, and walk straight into a Hinder. And then, even if you do counter the Hinder, she can be removed on the way back to untapping.
Do I sound like she gets removed a lot? Its because she gets removed a lot.
01 Ancient Tomb
02 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
03 Cascade Bluffs
04 Command Tower
05 Desolate Lighthouse
06 Forgotten Cave
07 Flooded Strand
08 High Market
09 Island
10 Island
11 Island
12 Island
13 Island
14 Island
15 Island
16 Island
17 Island
18 Island
19 Island
20 Lonely Sandbar
21 Misty Rainforest
22 Mountain
23 Mountain
24 Mountain
25 Mountain
26 Polluted Delta
27 Reliquary Tower
28 Scalding Tarn
29 Shivan Reef
30 Steam Vents
31 Strip Mine
32 Sulfur Falls
33 Temple of the False God
34 Tolaria West
35 Volcanic Island
36 Wasteland
37 Cryptic Command
38 Evacuation
39 Fact or Fiction
40 Flusterstorm
41 Force of Will
42 Frantic Search
43 Fury Charm
44 Hinder
45 Impulse
46 Mindbreak Trap
47 Mystical Tutor
48 Pact of Negation
49 Quicken
50 Remand
51 Stifle
52 Wild Ricochet
SORCERIES (11)
53 Acquire
54 Apocalypse
55 Blasphemous Act
56 Bribery
57 Decree of Annihilation
58 Obliterate
59 Rite of Replication
60 Time Spiral
61 Time Stretch
62 Time Warp
63 Wheel of Fortune
ENCHANTMENTS (5)
64 Future Sight
65 Leyline of Anticipation
66 Rhystic Study
67 Splinter Twin
68 Treachery
CREATURES (17)
69 Akroma, Angel of Fury
70 Blightsteel Colossus
71 Chancellor of the Spires
72 Consecrated Sphinx
73 Deceiver Exarch
74 Inkwell Leviathan
75 Izzet Chronarch
76 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
77 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
78 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
79 Mnemonic Wall
80 Pestermite
81 Phyrexian Metamorph
82 Snapcaster Mage
83 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
84 Trinket Mage
85 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
86 Crystal Shard
87 Gilded Lotus
88 Lightning Greaves
89 Lotus Bloom
90 Mana Crypt
91 Mana Vault
92 Mind Stone
93 Proteus Staff
94 Relic of Progenitus
95 Sensei's Divining Top
96 Sol Ring
97 Thran Dynamo
PLANESWALKER (2)
98 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
99 Tezzeret the Seeker
(Plan B) Deceiver Exarch/Pestermite + Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker/Splinter Twin - Infinite hasty tokens. Each time you create a copy of Deceiver Exarch or Pestermite, you untap either the one enchanted with Splinter Twin or Kiki-Jiki. You can then repeat this process infinite times. If someone has a lock in place, it might be necessary to Acquire/Bribery another combo piece, or include cards like Ashnod's Altar/Blue Sun's Zenith so you can deck people with infinite mana.
(Plan C) Izzet Chronarch/Mnemonic Wall + Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker/Splinter Twin/Crystal Shard/Rite of Replication + Time Warp/Time Stretch - Infinite turns. First you play the extra turn card, then you play Izzet Chronarch or Mnemonic Wall to return it to your hard, and cast it again. Then you use any of the other cards to bounce or make a token of Izzet Chronarch or Mnemonic Wall, so you can repeat the process.
Chancellor of the Spires + Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker/Splinter Twin/Crystal Shard/Rite of Replication* + Time Warp/Time Stretch in opponents graveyard - Infinite turns. You play Chancellor copying the extra turn out of their graveyard. Then you bounce or create a token of the Chancellor, and repeat. Note that you use Rite of Replication, but only if it is in their graveyard and you pay the kicker. This lets you cast 5 spells from their graveyard.
Tezzeret the Seeker/Jace, The Mind Sculptor + Obliterate/Decree of Annihilation - Rebuild faster than everyone else. Tezzeret can search for Artifact Lands, and Lotus Bloom. Incredibly good in 1v1, as Decree exiles player's hands, while your opponent is trying to topdeck lands, you are searching for them with Tezzeret or controlling what they topdeck with JTMS (although this decklist is not legal for French 1v1).
Jhoira of the Ghitu + Fury Charm + Snapcaster Mage - Instant speed any card at a total cost of 8. You can do this with cards like Timecrafting to get any card at the cost of 7, but Timecraft is currently not in my deck.
Izzet Chronarch/Mnemonic Wall + Evacuation - Repeatable evacuation. Play evacuation so it is in your graveyard, then play Izzet Chronarch or Mnemonic Wall. Evacuation bounces the creature, and repeat. A rather expensive combo at 10 mana, it occasionally comes in hand when you are drawing a lot of aggro.
Akroma, Angel of Fury – Sometimes the protection, inability to be countered, and evasion is just exactly the set of abilities you need in your fatty. It doesn’t have any lockdown combos, but sometimes you just need some pressure to put your opponent on a clock. Best uses are for against pillowfort players while they are trying to set up.
Apocalypse – At 5cmc, this card feels like it does more than it should. Apocalypse is the major reason that Quicken is in the deck, despite the obvious drawback of discarding the card you just drew. Apocalypse is so cheap, that if you curve out properly, you can suspend turn four, and just Apocalypse on turn 5, while you wait for the rest of the table to rebuild.
Blasphemous Act – An odd choice for Jhoira decks, as it seems worse than say Obliterate. It depends on your meta. If you are playing in regularly large games of 4-6 people it is essentially R to cast, which is fantastic value. It has a cute interation with Snapcaster Mage as well, which does occasionally come up.
Blightsteel Colossus – One hit kills. Just be careful, as he is a potential Bribery AND Acquire target. The indestructibility is an enormous factor, as for the measly cost of 20 mana, you can cast Blightsteel and then Obliterate (you laugh, I’ve done it before).
Boseiju, Who Shelters All – An unconventional choice for Jhoira decks, as it lacks synergy. The enters tapped prevents you from having an explosive start, and it doesn’t let you suspend spells and make them uncounterable. Add to it that some spells, such as Obliterate are already uncounterable. So why? The reason is that Suspend is only plan A. We need plan B, C, D. And Boseiju enables you to make cards like Time Stretch only redirectable, not counterable.
Bribery – Like Acquire, this fills an awkward spot in our curve. We wish it was twice as good and twice as expensive. Some sort of Blue Tooth and Nail. Usual targets for this are Seedborn Muse (late game), Primeval Titan (early game), Avacyn (about to blow up table), Griselbrand (want to combo off). In my meta, wherever you take, don’t expect to keep it for long.
Cascade Bluffs – One of the best lands in this deck. It enables you to hit heavy color requirement spells like Cryptic Command and Apocalypse. Almost never sorry to see this land, the only times I am is if I got greedy on an opening hand with no color sources, but that doesn’t happen anymore.
Chancellor of the Spires – A very unoffensive creature to initially suspend, he doesn’t an extraordinary amount of work. You can go infinite with Rite of Replication in someone else’s bin. Again, a purely meta dependant card. If you play entirely against greengoodstuff.dec then you might be only able to grab Cultivate and Kodoma’s Reach, which is rather disappointing.
Command Tower – Not really going to justify this one with an explanation.
Consecrated Sphinx – One of the best six drops in the game. This guy will net you an insane amount of card advantage. Most games, I end up hard casting him and if he makes it past two triggers I am happy. Not a bad card for after blowing up the table either. Eldrazi will win you the game, but if you have Sphinx after a Decree and no one draws removal, you are probably going to win.
Cryptic Command – Modular counterspell is fantastic. The color requirements are kind of harsh, and it is not the ideal counterspell for enabling your “suspend fatty, blow up table” win condition. So it is a testament to how great this card is that I still use it.
Crystal Shard - A combo piece. It also serves as a rattlesnake that prevents people from tapping out to play a creature, which slows down the tempo of the game, more to your advantage.
Deceiver Exarch – Almost always prefer Pestermite to this. A component of the Splinter Twin combo, it is free with Gilded Lotus, untaps Proteus Staff if you polymorph into it, and is a flash blocker. Not a bad card.
Decree of Annihilation – The blow up the board card. The game plan with this card is as follows; If its in your opening hand, suspend it. If you draw into it, and have something suspended, cast it if you can. But if you fear counter spells, cycle it. And if you are being ganged up on, cast it as soon as you can regardless.
Desolate Lighthouse – A rather underwhelming card. It gives you instant speed looting at the cost of 4. Occasionally this will save you when someone tries to deck you, by allowing you to discard an Eldrazi at instant speed. Most other times, you will only use this in the occasional game where you draw into nothing.
Evacuation – Instant speed board bounce. Has a cute interaction with Snapcaster Mage. Even if you just hit land drops everyturn, with no mana rocks, this card curves out perfect. Turn 3 Jhoira, Turn 4 Double Suspend, Turn 5 Evacuation.
Fact or Fiction – Simply one of the best draw spells in the game. If you NEED a card that is in your top 5, you are guaranteed to get it. Everything else about this card is just gravy. Occassionally, you can use it politically to get 5-0, at which point this goes from arguably one of the best draw spells, to the best draw spell.
Flooded Strand - Thins your deck, lets you shuffle if your Sensei's Divining Top or Future Sight is only hitting crap, and even can hit Volcanic Island or Steam Vents if you need the red.
Flusterstorm – Protection for when you go off. It is quite easy to achieve a storm count of 5 or greater.
Force of Will – The best counterspell in the game?
Forgotten Cave – One of the two cycle lands in the deck. They are pretty bad, and if there were more reasons to run basics I would replace them. They do however have a cute interaction with Mystical Tutor, for an instant speed tutor for most of the non-land cards in the deck.
Frantic Search – “Free” card draw. It gives you card disadvantage however. Three cards for Two. Its inclusion is for two reasons. It lets you search for combo pieces, and it gives you instant speed discard of an Eldrazi.
Fury Charm – The only time counter manipulation card in the entire deck. Two mana for two time counters is the best deal of all of the time counter manipulation cards. The only reason it is included but the rest aren’t is because of the modular options.
Future Sight – The card advantage this provides is sickening. It does fit an awkward spot in our curve, but its so good we have to include it anyway. Combos with Mystical Tutor.
Gilded Lotus – A great mana rock, it helps us hit the color requirements of some of our intensive spells. The ramp this provides is insane. I regularly get it out turn 4, and if I play a land turn 5, I have 9 mana available.
High Market – Occasionally someone will try and be cute and steal Jhoira, so they can suspend their own spells for after yours go off. This lets you sac Jhoira in response. It doesn’t happen very often, but it is worth the inclusion to the deck for the rare occasion.
Hinder – Tucks generals, very important card when you have an aggro player, such as Skittles who is going to gun you down. Also, I have the textless version, so pretty going play that!
Impulse – Instant speed dig for four. Find more combo pieces or a necessary counterspell. I’ve been told it’s a bad card, but I have never been disappointed to draw it.
Inkwell Leviathan – Much like Akroma, occasionally this is just the card you need. If this resolves, a monoblue deck will have a hard time dealing with this. It is not as flashy as the Eldrazis or Blightsteel, but sometimes this is just the card you need. As a bonus, if you ever get Tezzeret up to 9, you can search for this.
Izzet Chronarch – Recurs spells. Helpful if you needed to use a spell easier to save yourself and need it again. Combos with Evacuation for trolls, but the main combo is Time Warp/Stretch and Kiki-Jiki/Splinter Twin for infinite turns.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor – Actually quite underwhelming in EDH, he is included purely because he is a toolbox of solutions. If you have JTMS survive blowing up the table, you are in a good spot. However, I only included him because I had one. If you were building this deck, save the money.
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur – An amazing shutdown card, never expect this to survive back to your turn. If he does, the card advantage you gain will be sickening. I have never lost a game where that happened.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker – One of the splinter twin combo pieces, he combos with a variety of cards in this deck. The obvious ones, Pestermite/Deceiver, Izzet Chronarch/Mnuemonic Wall. Also has cute interactions with cards like Snapcaster or the card you steal with Bribery, Acquire, Treachery, Phyrexian Metamorph.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth – Of the three legal big Eldrazis, arguably the best. Even if he gets countered or removed, he provides an Opportunity level card draw.
Leyline of Anticipation – A very important part of this deck is being able to play reactionary. If Leyline is in your opening hand, it lets you flash in Jhoira at EoT. Also has interaction with instant speed blowing up the table, such as EoT Decree.
Lightning Greaves – Originally I took this out of the deck, because with suspend giving haste, and my opponents just responding to the equip I didn’t see the point. I put them back in because it lets me drop Blightsteel and swing in the same turn. Still iffy about them, and if I cute anything, it would be them. It lets you protect Jhoira when you first drop her, but if anyone really wanted her removed, they would just respond to the equip trigger.
Lonely Sandbar – Cycle land, see Forgotten Cave.
Lotus Bloom – Mana acceleration. Mostly times, we only need that one hit anyway, so that’s find. Tezzeret and Trinket Mage can fetch it, which is cute.
Mana Crypt - Fast mana is important in this deck. Remember, it doesn't matter if this almost kills you, if you win. Playtesting may be required to prove this point.
Mana Vault – Lets you do the fabled turn 2 suspend. First turn Land, Mana Vault. Second Turn, Land, Jhoira, Suspend. A great card.
Mind Stone – We don’t include a lot of mana rocks in this deck because they are frankly quite disappointing to draw. Mind Stone is great, because we can cycle it which becomes extraordinarily important with cards like Mystical Tutor or Future Sight.
Mindbreak Trap – “Free” counterspell, it enables you to combo off.
Misty Rainforest - See Flooded Strand.
Mnemonic Wall – Izzet Chronarch number 2.
Mystical Tutor – Lets you search for most non-land cards in the deck. If you have a great hand early, lets you find Decree. Has a great interaction with Future Sight obviously.
Obliterate – One of the three blow up the table cards in the deck. The uncounterable aspect of this card will constantly matter. Just be sure to float your mana in response, because a smart opponent will just float his, and counter whatever comes next. I wish Emrakul was still legal.
Pact of Negation – “Free” counter, almost not worth the inclusion because it will cause you to lose in the next turn, and so if you use it to get your Decree through, you are screwed. However, it does let you protect your other combos, and so it worth the inclusion.
Pestermite – See Deceiver Exarch. Usually feel better about Pestermite than Deceiver, because of the evasion.
Phyrexian Metamorph – Is such a generic answer to so many problems, its hard to argue against its inclusion. Lets you copy ramp cards like Guilded Lotus. Searchable with Tezzeret. Kills untargetable Generals.
Polluted Delta - See Flooded Strand.
Proteus Staff – Polymorph on a stick. A great card in this deck, because every creature either has an ETB effect or is a fatty, so you are rarely disappointed with what you get. If your opponent is playing voltron, it lets you tuck their general, although it is usually too slow for that. Occasionally it comes it handy for Iona.
Quicken – Lets you card your sorceries at instant speed, which lets you use Bribery, Acquire, and Obliterate as combat tricks. At first I was hesitant, but it has grown on me. The fact that you can just cycle it if you aren’t happy with it is a huge bonus, especially with Mystical Tutor.
Relic of Progenitus – Graveyard hate is important in my meta, enough to warrant a spot. Ideally you would want to get your combo off before it becomes an issue, but if you are having trouble with graveyard masturbation decks, it is worth the spot. Findable by Trinket Mage.
Reliquary Tower – No maximum hand size is great for this deck, because it lets you keep all your answers. Especially great with Jin-Gitaxias.
Remand – Ordinarily a bad counterspell in EDH (see Arcane Denial), it protects your plan to combo off with minimal color requirements. Remember that you can Remand your own spells, which enables you do all sorts of tricks with the stack and gain card advantage.
Rhystic Study – Simply one of the best draw spells in the game. If it resolves, it either slows everyone down or people will just chose to ignore it and you will draw a ridiculous amount of spells. A great card that for some reason does not gain anywhere near as much hate as Consecrated Sphinx.
Rite of Replication – Combos with any that has an ETB effect. Technically you can use it with Izzet Chronarch to get all instants and sorceries out of your graveyard, but without infinite mana this is cumbersome. In most cases, I use it on Primeval Titan for 10 lands.
Scalding Tarn – Fantastic search land. No reason to not include it.
Sensei's Divining Top – Amazing for digging, amazing for rebuilding, amazing with Future Sight, findable by Trinket Mage. No reason to not include.
Shivan Reef – Color fixer. Life total isn’t important unless you die. What is important is getting that necessary color requirements.
Snapcaster Mage – Flashback value. Cute interactions with a lot of spells.
Sol Ring – Autoinclude in EDH?
Splinter Twin – See Kiki-Jiki. A combo piece for the Splinter Twin combo.
Steam Vents – Dual pain land, autoinclude
Stifle – A lot of Kaalia decks in my meta. Stifle lets you wait until the last second, and then stifle their “put into play” trigger. Also has countless other uses. Amazing card.
Strip Mine – Lets you remove certain nuisance lands, such as Maze of Ith.
Sulfur Falls - Dual land, helps with color problems.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir – Protects your combo. Playing him EOT before your combo is about to go off will force your opponents to counter him or lose to your combo. If you aren’t afraid of counters, you can also float your mana and play after Obliterate resolves. Also kills enemy Teferi if they try and be cute by playing Teferi in respond to you removing the last time counter on a spell.
Temple of the False God – If plan A doesn’t work out, helps you accelerate into hard casting. Its situational, and its bad for rebuilding, but I am rarely disappointed with this card.
Tezzeret the Seeker – With so many artifacts in this deck, Tezzeret was an autoinclude. He can fetch Phyrexian Metamorph or Thran Dynamo the turn he hits the battlefield. If he survives to rebuilding, he can fetch Artifact Lands and Lotus Bloom for free. Amazing card, definitely worth the spot.
Thran Dynamo – One of the best mana rocks in the game.
Time Spiral – “Free” recursion and draw seven. You will shotgun through your hand with this deck, that this just gives you free draw seven with almost no drawbacks.
Time Stretch – Part of the infinite turns combo, also works with suspend. Just be aware that suspending this will earn you an enormous amount of aggro. Combos with other suspend cards obviously.
Time Warp – See Time Stretch
Tolaria West - Lets you tutor for all the utility lands in the deck. If you have it in your opening hand, you can transmute on turn 3 for Ancient Tomb. Turn turn 4, play Jhoira and suspend. In late game, it enables you to find Boseiju so you can play a game winning spell uncounterable. Targets are; any land, Mana Crypt, Lotus Bloom, Pact of Negation.
Treachery – “Free” control magic. Lets you steal a fatty and use them as a blocker, while still leaving counterspell and suspend mana up. I never feel bad about having this in my opening hand.
Trinket Mage – Fetches so much of this deck. If you get it early, get Sol Ring. If you get it late, get Sensei’s. Gives you a blocker. If you get really stretched, you can combo with Kiki-Jiki to fetch Lotus Bloom or Artifact Lands.
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre – “Vindicate” Eldrazi. The vindicate aspect becomes very relevant because it enables you to deal with problem enchantments or planeswalkers that survived the board being blown up.
Volcanic Island – Beta dual? Autoinclude.
Wasteland – See Strip Mine
Wheel of Fortune – This deck empties it hand very quickly and the ability to draw seven is amazing. Screws with other combo players, and the color requirements are quite easy. Never regret topdecking this card.
Wild Ricochet – I play with a lot of blue players in my meta and this lets me snag extra turns. If you get really mana starved, you can use it on a green player’s spell to ramp.
Great Furnace – Artifact lands receive both love and hate. They die as a casualty of cards like Austere Command. But they are also tutorable by Tezzeret and Trinket Mage.
Intuition - I don't own a copy so I have never had a chance to test it. It might work in this deck, I am not sure.
Tunnel Vision - Very funny the first time with Hinder/Proteus Staff/Spell Crumple/etc, but other than that, wildly inconsistent. You can use it for a desperation tutor if necessary. The largest problem is the mana cost.
Seat of the Synod – Artifact land, see Great Furnace.
Wipe Away - Fantastic card, just never was very relevant in my meta. Its good if you have a lot of commanders like Azami.
Clockspinning - Cute, but the buyback is ridiculously expensive. 5 mana to remove 2 time counters seems like a good deal, until you realize that it is an overcosted spell that has no synergy with anything else in your deck. Jhoira got tucked? So what does Clockspinning do now? Pump up Tezzeret by 1 counter at the cost of 4?
Devastation Tide - It is hard to consistently get the Miracle off without Black. We only have cards like Mystical Tutor, Jace, The Mindsculptor and Brainstorm. Also, much of our mana base is in artifact ramp, and it will bounce them too.
Halimar Depths – A terrible land to hit in mid game, it is fantastic as your first land drop because it enables you to plan out the next crucial turns. Has cute synergy with Future Sight. Would be better if it was Scry. Include it if you want.
It that Betrays - No protection, and the people I play with use a lot of spot removal. If you can get the combo off where you blow up the table, his annihilate will steal their lands and its game over, but it doesn't happen consistently enough for me. If you are trying to build a Jhoira deck and hurting for an Eldrazi, then he's ok.
Insurrection - Bad card to suspend. It will generate you an enormous amount of aggro, because people will know that soon you will be stealing all their creatures and beating attacking them.
Jokulhaups - Was originally in the deck, but I found I was drawing my mass land destruction cards a little too often, so I cut one. Each of the other three have individual advantages; Apocalypse (low cost), Obliterate (can't be countered), Decree (cycle/gets rid of hands). This had no real strengths, so I cut it.
Niv-Mizzet - Lackluster outside of combo. All of the combo pieces you are use with him, have no synergy with the rest of the deck.
Paradox Haze - At 3 cmc it fills the slot where we want to be playing Jhoira. It also synergizes with Suspend but nothing else in this deck. And then there's the biggest reason; Stax players. If you cast this on yourself, Smokestack will make you it's *****.
Reforge the Soul - Very wanting in comparision to Wheel of Fortune. It will take work to miracle it consistently. Also, Jhoira does not want a deck full of "Draw 7"s. That works better in a Niv-Mizzet deck. Yes, we do want a couple to refill our hand, but we are not trying to chain them together. And so, use the better options first.
Rewind - Allows you to counter and still have mana open to counter. However its terrible when defending your combo since it untaps on resolution, and is just a 4 cmc Cancel till then.
Shivan Sand-mage - Same deal as Timecrafting. Has no synergy with the rest of your deck. Its terrible to Proteus Staff into when you have nothing to suspend. Can be Bribery'd to screw you over.
Temporal Mastery - Exiles, so you can't recur it. Simple as that. No infinite combo, just a blue Explore.
Timecrafting - Entirely dependant on how reliably you can get a spell in suspend. It is a touch expensive, you'll be paying 3 where Fury Charm will only charge you 2. I cut it because again, it does nothing after Jhoira get removed.
Turnabout - Enables infinite mana with cards like Reiterate. But it doesn't really synergize with the rest of the deck. And we have half our mana in mana rocks, so you either untap lands or artifacts. If it works, you have infinite mana and can do whatever you want, but I've never got it to consistently work.
Mana Drain - Counter a random spell on the way back to your turn 2 or 3, and depending on what you ramp you already have out, you can play Jhoira, then suspend something straight away.
Temporal Manipulation - A Time Walk that can't be Redirected. Strictly better because when we attempt to go off with infinite turns, it can't be stolen.
Timetwister - Reload our hand, and gives us instant speed graveyard shuffle with Quicken. Also the only legal P9 card in EDH.
- Arcane Denial
- Evolving Wilds
- Great Furnace
- Halimar Depths
- Seat of the Synod
- Terramorphic Expanse
+ Ancient Tomb
+ Flooded Strand
+ Mana Crypt
+ Misty Rainforest
+ Polluted Delta
+ Tolaria West
Yes I am aware that Biomechanika has a Jhoira Primer already. But at the time of posting, there are 33 cards difference if you don't count basic lands. Meaning he has 33 cards in his deck, that I don't. His build is clearly more reliant on being able to suspend cards, such as Aeon Chronicler. While I have tried to make a decklist that is more resilient, but as an unfortunate result has less juicy suspend options.
And he hasn't updated since 05-10-2011
Why Play Jhoira
Deck History
Deck Philosophy
Current Deck List
Card Options
Frequently Asked Questions
Suspend Rules
Strategy
Sample Hands
Acquire/Test list
Change Log[/FONT]
Current as of 30th June 2014
[FONT=Century Gothic]Introduction[/FONT]
[FONT=Century Gothic]Why Play Jhoira[/FONT]
[FONT=Century Gothic]Deck History[/FONT]
[FONT=Century Gothic]Deck Philosophy[/FONT]
[FONT=Century Gothic]Current Deck List[/FONT][FONT=Verdana]
1 Arid Mesa
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Command Tower
1 Crystal Vein
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Forgotten Cave
1 High Market
10 Island
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Remote Isle
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Shivan Reef
1 Smoldering Crater
5 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Strip Mine
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Tolaria West
1 Volcanic Island
Sorcery (12)
1 Acquire
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Bribery
1 Decree of Annihilation
1 Obliterate
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Rite of Replication
1 Time Spiral
1 Time Stretch
1 Time Warp
1 Vandalblast
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Brainstorm
1 Cryptic Command
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Electrolyze
1 Evacuation
1 Force of Will
1 Fury Charm
1 Hinder
1 Impulse
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Remand
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Wipe Away
Artifact (14)
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Crystal Shard
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Grim Monolith
1 Izzet Signet
1 Lotus Bloom
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mind Stone
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Thran Dynamo
Enchantment (5)
1 Future Sight
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Omniscience
1 Sneak Attack
1 Treachery
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Archaeomancer
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Chancellor of the Spires
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Deceiver Exarch
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Pestermite
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Spellskite
1 Trinket Mage
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Planeswalker (2)
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
[FONT=Century Gothic]Card Choices Explained[/FONT]
[FONT=Century Gothic]Card Options[/FONT]
[FONT=Century Gothic]FAQ - Why don't you play?[/FONT]
[FONT=Century Gothic]FAQ - Other questions[/FONT]
[FONT=Century Gothic]Suspend Rules[/FONT]
[FONT=Century Gothic]Strategy - Combos[/FONT]
[FONT=Century Gothic]Sample Opening Hands[/FONT]
[FONT=Century Gothic]Pimping Out the Deck[/FONT]
[FONT=Century Gothic]Cards to Acquire/Test[/FONT]
[FONT=Century Gothic]Change Log[/FONT]
-1 Phantasmal Image - Cut this for Bearer. This card is no where near as good as it used to be, with the legend rule change and Primeval Titan banned.
+1 Bearer of the Heavens - Playtesting this. So far it's been pretty mediocre. Kinda just waiting for Dack to come out so I can replace it with him.[/FONT]
-1 Ancestral Vision, -1 Quicken, -1 Visions of Beyond - These cards were frequently just mediocre.
-1 Sunder - Without killing creatures, this usually just got me killed.
-1 Mindbreak Trap - Wasn't being cast for 0 often enough.
-1 Everflowing Chalice - Frequently was just Mind Stone but worse.
-1 Splinter Twin - Frequently I just discarded it because it was dead.
+1 Reforge the Soul - Wanted to test out.
+1 Cyclonic Rift - Apparently I missed the memo that this card was good. No excuse.
+1 Thran Dynamo - I wanted a sweet Tezzeret -4 back.
+1 Brainstorm - I wanted to play Reforge the Soul and didn't see a reason not to play it.
+1 Grim Monolith - I wanted to test it.
+1 Sneak Attack - I wanted to test it. And its freaking sweet. Judge promo
These are the removed card choices justifications.
Ancestral Vision - Cards like Brainstorm, Amass the Components, Jace's Ingenuity to generate card advantage. You could replace this with almost anything. Maybe you have a spare Ponder for example.
Mindbreak Trap - Counterflux, Time Stop.
Splinter Twin - Mimic Vat.
Sunder - Nothing does the same effect, but you can probably replace with any sweeper.[/FONT]
Thanks, this is exactly the sort of advice I was after
Which counter magic is worth it? Free ones are obviously the best, since they enable me to counter turn 1 and when tapped out. So far I have;
Swift Silence (not great but I had a copy)
Muddle the Mixture
Force of Will
Foil
Mindbreak Trap
And if I was cutting the three you suggested I'd probably replace them with;
Pact of Negation - free, but can't use turn 1
Rewind - essentially free, but can't use turn 1
Cryptic Command - modular spells are good for this deck
I play in a very well developed meta with a broad range of archetypes, and nothing is off bounds. I have a rather unique challenge. I want to build a deck to make games more "fair". We find that the most enjoyable games are the ones that last about an hour. Sometimes someone will combo out in under the first 15 minutes, and other games someone will lock down the table for over two hours. We love things like how complex stax will make games, or how fast aggro decks can explode out the gate. And above all, we love the political aspect of EDH.
What are the goals of this deck;
- Prevent anyone from winning too early (eg, god hand and went infinite on turn 1)
- Prevent anyone from locking down the game to a crawl (eg, Humility/Dovescape, Contamination/Bitterblossom)
- Prevent the table from ganging up on one person to an unneccesary degree (eg, KILL THIS GUY FOR SOME IRRATIONAL REASON)
What ARE NOT the goals for this deck;- To lockdown the table (eg, infinite board wipes)
- To hose one player out of the game by playing cards that create an unfair tilt (eg, Acid Rain)
- To win (eg, win?)
Which means we need a suite of answers to problems, preferably instant. Also, we need to be able to reliably find these answers, play them, and if necessary remove them if they do more harm than good. Yes, this means the deck will be playing at card disadvantage. Yes, you might not understand why I'm even bothering. Just humor me. Here's the list so far;Decklist in simple format
1 Bant Panorama
1 Boreal Shelf
1 Borean Tundra
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Coastal Tower
1 Command Tower
1 Dust Bowl
1 Esper Panorama
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Flood Plains
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Homeward Path
6 Island
1 Kor Haven
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Maze of Ith
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Mystic Gate
1 Nimbus Maze
5 Plains
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Sejiri Refuge
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Tolaria West
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Wanderwine Hub
1 Claws of Gix
1 Expedition Map
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Pithing Needle
1 Proteus Staff
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Spectral Searchlight
1 Tsabo's web
Enchantments
1 Aura of Silence
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Null Chamber
1 Terra Eternal
Instants
1 Banishing Stroke
1 Clockspinning
1 Cryptic Command
1 Dawn Charm
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Evacuation
1 Foil
1 Force of Will
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Path to Exile
1 Plagiarize
1 Revoke Existence
1 Swift Silence
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Thought Scour
1 Trickbind
1 Venser's Diffusion
1 Vision Skeins
1 Wheel and Deal
1 Wipe away
1 Words of Wisdom
1 Austere Command
1 Planar Cleansing
1 Terminus
Creatures
1 Angel of Jubilation
1 Arbiter of Knollridge
1 Arcum Dagsson
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Mimic Vat
1 Mistmeadow Witch
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Silent Arbiter
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Spellskite
1 Spurnmage Advocate
1 Trinket Mage
1 Walking Archive
1 Wishmonger
Planeswalkers
1 Jace Beleran
1 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
1 Venser, the Sojourner
Commander
1 Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer
01 Bant Panorama - search land
02 Esper Panorama - search land
03 Evolving Wilds - search land
04 Terramorphic Expanse - search land
05 Flood Plains - search land
06 Flooded Strand - search land
07 Hallowed fountain - pain land
08 Sejiri Refuge - tapped color fixer
09 Coastal Tower - tapped color fixer
10 Boreal Shelf - tapped color fixer
11 Wanderwine Hub - tapped color fixer
12 Mystic Gate - filter land
13 Nimbus Maze - dependent color fixer
14 Glacial Fortress - dependent color fixer
15 Lonely Sandbar - cycle land
16 Secluded Steppe - cycle land
17 Vivid Meadow - charges color fixer
18 Vivid Creek - charges color fixer
19 Command Tower - color fixer
20 Borean Tundra - color fixer
21 Kor Haven - single target fog
22 Maze of Ith - single target fog
23 Forbidden Orchard - gift blocker
24 Homeward Path - brand
25 Tolaria West - transmute 0
26 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea - all draw
27 Boseiju, Who Shelters All - can't be countered
28 Minamo, School at Water's Edge - untap legendary
29 Dust Bowl - repeatable land destruction
30 Plains
31 Plains
32 Plains
33 Plains
34 Plains
35 Island
36 Island
37 Island
38 Island
39 Island
40 Island
41 Sol Ring - ramp
42 Sensei's Divining Top - search for answers
43 Spectral Searchlight - ramp or gift mana
44 Expedition Map - find necessary utility land
45 Claws of Gix - sacrifice unwanted permanents
46 Grafdigger's Cage - disable graveyard recursion and library search (Sharuum, Green Goodstuff, Bribery)
47 Tsabo's web - disable utility lands (Stax Man Lands, Maze of Ith etc)
48 Proteus Staff - fairer spot removal that doesn't draw as much aggro
49 Relic of Progenitus - graveyard removal with cantrip
50 Pithing Needle - disable activated
51 Oblivion Stone - colorless board wipe (Contamination)
52 Isochron Scepter - repeatable instants at colorless costs
Enchantments
53 Leyline of Anticipation - enables draw-go
54 Terra Eternal - protects lands (Strip Mine/Crucible lock, Armageddon, Obliterate)
55 Aura of Silence - spot removal, prevent storm (Infinite top)
56 Null Chamber - disable generals, politics
Instants
57 Vision Skeins - all draw
58 Words of Wisdom - all draw
59 Mystical Tutor - instant/sorcery tutor
60 Enlightened Tutor - enchantment tutor
61 Path to Exile - spot removal
62 Swords to Plowshares - spot removal
63 Revoke Existence - spot removal
64 Venser's Diffusion - bounce permanents (Disperse but hits Jhoira)
65 Clockspinning - control counters (Politics, Planeswalkers, Suspend)
66 Banishing Stroke - spot tuck
67 Swift Silence - counterspell with card advantage
68 Muddle the Mixture - counterspell with transmute 2
69 Force of Will - free counterspell
70 Foil - free counterspell
71 Mindbreak Trap - free counterspell
72 Cryptic Command - modular counterspell
73 Trickbind - split second stifle
74 Dawn Charm - counter/fog
75 Thought Scour - mill top of deck (TOD Tutors, Infinite Top)
76 Wipe away - split second return to hand (Azami, Ghave combo)
77 Plagiarize - steal draw (Niv-Mizzet infinite, Azami infinite, Concecrated Sphinx + Wheels)
78 Wheel and Deal - politics
79 Evacuation - board bounce
80 Terminus - board tuck
81 Austere Command - board wipe
82 Planar Cleansing - board wipe
Creatures
83 Arbiter of Knollridge - stabilize lift totals (Exanguinate, Ganging up)
84 Aven Mindcensor - prevents searching (Green Goodstuff, Beacon recursion, Zur)
85 Angel of Jubilation - prevents saccing and paying life (Griselbrand, Grave Pact masturbation, Ghave infinite combo)
86 Trinket Mage - search for artifact answers, abuse with Venser
87 Arcum Dagsson - instant speed change artifacts
88 Mistmeadow Witch - repeatable creature save, abuse ETB
89 Phyrexian Metamorph - clone effect
90 Mimic Vat - steal creatures who would be reanimated
91 Silent Arbiter - prevent token spam with alpha strike (Genesis Wave, Entreat the Angels etc)
92 Snapcaster Mage - flashback value
93 Wishmonger - politics enabler
94 Walking Archive - growable Howling Mine
95 Spellskite - eat removal
96 Spurnmage Advocate - destroy attackers and enable politics
Planeswalkers
97 Jace Beleran - all draw
98 Jace, The Mind Sculptor - control
99 Venser, the Sojourner - abuse ETB effects, reset JTMS
Commander
100 Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer
I am posting my Jhoira decklist in the hopes of getting some feedback. I've got it to the point where I consider it a couple cards away from completed. So basically, what I am looking for are singles that I have missed, or major directional changes. I want to know if you look at this list and say "He should be running card X over card Y". I want to know if you say "He should be running more cards on theme X because it will work better".
I am seriously open to any criticism or ideas. I have a couple EDH decks, and Jhoira is my "competitive" one, so nothing is too much of a jerk move. I use it both in 1v1 and multiplayer, but only when playing with people who have decks of similar power as a courtesy,
Decklist by Type
1 Jhoira of the Ghitu
Lands
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Command Tower
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Ghitu Encampment
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Great Furnace
1 Halimar Depths
1 High Market
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Seat of Synod
1 Shivan Reef
1 Steam Vents
1 Strip Mine
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Temple of the False God
1 Terramorphic Expanse
10 Island
6 Mountain
Artifacts
1 Coalition Relic
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Dreamstone Hedron
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Proteus Staff
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
1 Cryptic Command
1 Dismiss
1 Echoing Truth
1 Evacuation
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Fire/Ice
1 Forbid
1 Fury Charm
1 Hinder
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Pact of Negation
1 Prophetic Bolt
1 Quicken
1 Remand
1 Rewind
1 Snap
1 Spell Crumple
1 Wild Ricochet
Sorceries
1 Acquire
1 Apocalypse
1 Blatant Thievery
1 Bribery
1 Decree of Annihilation
1 Insurrection
1 Jokulhaups
1 Obliterate
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Rite of Replication
1 Time Stretch
1 Rhystic study
1 Standstill
1 Treachery
Planeswalkers
1 Jace Beleren
Creatures
1 Aeon Chronicler
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Chancellor of the Spires
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Greater Gargadon
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Magus of the Future
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Stormtide Leviathan
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Trinket Mage
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Jhoira of the Ghitu
Dual or Colorfix Lands
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Command Tower
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Shivan Reef
1 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Terramorphic Expanse
Other Special Lands
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Ghitu Encampment
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Great Furnace
1 Halimar Depths
1 High Market
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Seat of Synod
1 Strip Mine
1 Temple of the False God
Basics
10 Island
6 Mountain
Mana Rocks
1 Coalition Relic
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Dreamstone Hedron
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Proteus Staff
1 Sensei's Divining Top
Utility Creatures
1 Aeon Chronicler
1 Chancellor of the Spires
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Trinket Mage
Isochron Scepter
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
1 Echoing Truth
1 Fire/Ice
1 Fury Charm
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Pact of Negation
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Quicken
1 Remand
1 Snap
Counterspells
1 Cryptic Command
1 Dismiss
1 Forbid
1 Hinder
1 Rewind
1 Spell Crumple
1 Acquire
1 Blatant Thievery
1 Bribery
1 Insurrection
1 Treachery
Land Destruction
1 Apocalypse
1 Decree of Annihilation
1 Jokulhaups
1 Obliterate
Game Ending Fatties
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Stormtide Leviathan
1 Greater Gargadon
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Game Ending Spells
1 Rite of Replication
1 Time Stretch
1 Wild Ricochet
Card Advantage
1 Jace Beleren
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Magus of the Future
1 Rhystic study
1 Standstill
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Prophetic Bolt
Evacution
1 Evacuation
There are too many weaknesses.
1) You have to have 4 Leyline of Sanctity in your opening hand or else you can't play anything ever.
2) For reason 1, you can only mulligan 3 times before you will get an unwinnable hand
3) If you don't get Serra's Sanctum in your opening hand, its just Draw-Go till you topdeck one.
4) If you don't get Opalescence in your opening hand, same thing.
5) If you topdeck a Serra's Sanctum, and you already have one, you can't play it
Would be fun, but you'd basically need a perfect hand consistently.