This is what I've been noticing in this game lately as well. It's fine to have affinity infect and burn for example in this game as they can be hated out and disruption does well vs them. But when decks like valakut,eldrazi stifle fair urx and bgx( which police the super fast decks) you have only 1 option, to race. I think temple needs to go and heck maayyyybe even eventually valakut or tron. These decks are not good for the game as they are what encourage the racing we are currently seeing.
Unless of course they give us wasteland....
Nonsese.. only tron has been in the format from its start andthe racign existed sicne dayone. Also all these terrains are dealt with ghost quarter, and no one cares if they get a free basic as replacement.
Misstep is a design mistake that would make the format more lottery feeling than it already does. DSZ and Infect don't need more free ways to protect their creatures from the few efficient removal spells we have in the format.
Horrible idea all around.
MM is indefensible from basically every angle and is the opposite of what we want to encourage in this format going forward.
MM is a clear design failure because they made it cost the same as it targets. If it targeted 2 cc or it costed 2 phyrexian blue and coutnered 1 cc, then it would not lock the cycle on itself.
I have an interesting observation
Mtgtop8.com divides decks into aggro, control and combo. 52%, 21% and 27% respectively. But is Jund an aggro deck? No, it's midrange. Often times it plays like control. If we take Jund, Junk and Eldrazi shares and move them into separate midrange category, numbers become very different: 32%, 20%, 21%, 27%. Not to mention there are other decks that need to be moved: hatebears with manadorks and creatures like Ooze is midrange, Soul Sisters is hardly an aggro deck too, the version with 4 wrathes mainboard is control for sure, Knightfall with 7-8 manadorks isnt an aggro also.
From this perspective things look much healthier.
Though I dont support Dredge classification as combo deck. They dredge and if they succeed they hit Narcomoeba and 2 Amalgams. Is that a combo? In Magic 'Combo' usually means a win on the spot or very close to it. Thats just an aggro deck with some synergy (who hasnt?), removal resiliency and unusual playstyle.
Btw while Dredge doesnt want Mental Misstep, MM counters their t1 enablers.
dredge is just ..drege... notworth trying to classify the most orthogonal deck of magic (be iut inlegacy or in modern). It has its own position of weirdo that sits inthe corner of the room and talks to no one.
I just board thalia in, is usually enough to give me the needed time. Pity when I faced an ad nauseum this weekend the god of mulligan was expressing his anger upon me.
Question for you guys, how do you approach the Ad Nauseam match up? It should be a decent match up for us, being a fast aggro deck and stuff, but I've never been able to win against the deck. Last FNM, I played against an Ad Nauseam player and I lost 0-2. We had some time left, so we ran two more games (once with and once without sideboard) and again I went 0-2. All the games were really close, but each time, Phyrexian Unlife or Darkness got me.
My sideboard strategy was: -3 Mogg War Marshal, + 1 Pithing Needle (naming Lightning Storm), + 2 Earwig Squad. I didn't draw either of those cards. Pithing Needle would've won me the game, because he sided out his Laboratory Maniac. So I guess it's just bad luck on my part?
It is not a good match. If he starts we have basically zero chance on winning unless he has a bad hand. He will combo on 4thturn and phyrexian unlife means he has exrta 10 life to start with.
I was boarding in 3 Smash, and 2 Skullcrack, which I came to realize is too much. At the time I was thinking more burn for after board wipes and answers to Wurmcoil, but I think siding 2 smash in for Mogg Fanatics would be better.
Thanks for the replies!
Edit: Spec.ops, I tried the Fetches in the last league, and holy what a difference. I'm really happy with the change, thanks!
It is not logical to have 4 reckless bushwackers and 2 chieftain. Chieftain gives the same effect and ALSO works when youhave not cast other spell yet.
I had a GPtrial today.. got an amazing 0-5 losing all rounds by 0-2.... sometimes magic does not likepeople to play fun decks
Brutal! Mind giving us a short summary of matches? You must have had some terrible draws
First match was agaisnt ad nauseum. He started and Ikept an ok hand but not super explosive. I pushed him for 4 life.. then he comboed..
Second game.. drawn 7 lands, mulligan, draw 6 lands...w tf?? mulligan draw 1 land 4 cards, includign a blood moon, so I kept it sicne if I drew 2 lansdin a row I would win.. but.. I drew no seocnd land onthat game
Second Match Boggles: Had some comeptition on fitst match, but boggles is simply faster (that points to a problem in goblins)
Third game. Elves. 2 tough matchs but on both he eventually stablized with low life before the elf lord gave him the upperhand ( why in hell goblins have the worse lords by far? )He coutnered my goblin grenades with warping wall .. 2 times
Fourth match: Afinity.. both 2 trully played matchs, but affinity is simply faster and gains life due to skirge.
Fifth game: Soul sisters... need I to explain the match?
I feel I need WAY more explosiveness. I do nto think even I coudl use ringleader AND goblin recruiter it woudl have made a difference. MOdern is much more explosive allor nothign than legacy (due to the better coutners in legacy peopel cannot realy on beign so all or nothing). THere is no simple way I can have a nuts second turn and the nutness of a nut third turn is not that insane . Probably the best I can do is FSD followed by piledriver folowed by rablemaster. Think well that is NOT an impressive third turn...., or a harder to get lien woudl be quest for goblin lord -> warmarschall -> legion loyalist + kicked bushwacker ( that is indeed a strong third turn, but harder to come by...)
THink I need to use somemana acecleration to get a rablemaster online second turn somehow.
So, I have a question for the thread. How many lands do you run? How often do you flood out? Do you typically find yourself drawing more than 5 lands in a game?
For the last month, it feels like I've been flooding out constantly. My last league, I had flooded out (6-10 lands each game) for 4 of 5 rounds. A similar story has been haunting me all month. I know it could be a stretch of bad luck, but I'm wondering if that's not just the normal pace of our deck? Does anyone else have this problem?
I'm currently running 19 lands and 1 Devastating Summons, but for most of September, I was on 18 and 1 Summons.
EDit: Can I also ask for some help in beating Grixis? What is the general game plan? I'm really struggling against that deck.
Grixis control or the more agroish version? If you splash to white, thalia and celestial purge help a lot.
I must admit I am guilty of trying to use quest for the goblin lord combiend with goblin fooder and krenko command. I must say it worked better than I hoped,as it activates almost everytiemyou start with it in the opening 7. It makes several goblins a more dangerous top deck.. but on otherhand it becomes itself a horrible topdeck :/ Well since this is not a tiered deck and when I use it I want to have fun.. it helps. Nothing nets more fun than making people look and read cards they forgot that existed
ON th e instigator vs lackey.. it is not even the 1 vs 2 CMC.. its the lack of haste that would otherwise make it work. Maybe.... MAYBE the card we need is mass hysteria... well not gonna hurt to test.
Being totally honest... The deck, with the actual Modern cards pool, will never be a Top Tier deck.
Just as Mcpatches says, we are a little worse version of those great decks, but with even less interaction in main board. The Goblin deck, in any of the current versions, it the perfect example of a "Glass Cannon": lot of power, but to fragile.
What can we do about that??? Like I have already saied, nothing. We can do anything with the current cards aviable in Modern. What we would need are the goblins that make the deck in legacy a to force to be reckoned with: Goblin Lackey, Goblin Ringleader, Goblin Matron, Goblin Recruiter... yes, it would be a totally diferent kind of deck, if you comparate it with the current Blitz-like lists. But it would be much more powerfull.
You can impersonate ringleader with a green splash and company. Instigator is the"modern " lackey .
It is not simply the cardpool. MOdern meta is mostly creature heavy so evey deack is prepared and able to deal with creatures. LEgacy meta is more spell centric so goblins inlegacy are hittign their head agaisnt a less sturdy wall.
Not sure I agree with this entirely, although I see what you're saying. Both can be true, but I think the card pool is the larger issue, not removal.
Ringleader can be "impersonated" with CoCo, but it doesn't do anything in this style of deck. Legacy is midrange and full of larger goblins that have an impact when they hit the board. It's more toolboxy, so you can use a Matron to get what you need at the moment (including a burn spell), or you can cheat out a Siege-Gang Commander with a Lackey on turn 2 giving you an immediate impact on the board. A Modern deck would have to be rebuilt from scratch to include a much higher curve if you wanted any impact, with lords and strong ETB effects. Those tools don't really exist for Goblins in the Modern card pool... no big impact guys, just lots of little dudes to swarm with.
Ultimately, although the meta is different, we are talking about two very different styles of deck built from two very different card pools. The Goblins in Legacy are just as easy to kill with removal, but they do things before you have a chance to kill them. Goblins in Modern don't really have any of those abilities.
Anyways, just my 2c. There might be a solid tier 1/2 goblin deck out there at some point in time, but that time isn't now, and it's because of the cards it's missing, not the cards that are already there.
We will never have the same deck.. but that does not make it impossible. Look for example Legacy Death and TAxes vs Modern Death and Taxes. Modern version has much weaker tools but it still can work enough to be a tier 2 deck, just exploiting the format reliance on fetch lands...
The closest thing we have to the lackey is W. Instigator, but the lack of haste makes a huge difference. If we had a 1 mana goblin that just gave haste to every goblin, just that, nothign else that would probably be enough to make this a tier 2 liear deck. Our card pool is smaller.. but so it is of every deck...
To make it a more midrangish deck we would need a way to search/buy goblins.
One point that I am yelled at when I say it, but I still think has some value is that G.Guide is NOT as good as people think in modern. With the much narrower set of tools to search for answers in modern, giving free draws to opponents (when he draws a land is a free draw of the next spell already that will replace his natural draw next turn) is much more problematic in modern than in legacy. Against several decks, I feel that guide just hurt us more than helps.
Always apity that this block we will see no goblins and I am not with high bets for anegypt themed set that comes next
Being totally honest... The deck, with the actual Modern cards pool, will never be a Top Tier deck.
Just as Mcpatches says, we are a little worse version of those great decks, but with even less interaction in main board. The Goblin deck, in any of the current versions, it the perfect example of a "Glass Cannon": lot of power, but to fragile.
What can we do about that??? Like I have already saied, nothing. We can do anything with the current cards aviable in Modern. What we would need are the goblins that make the deck in legacy a to force to be reckoned with: Goblin Lackey, Goblin Ringleader, Goblin Matron, Goblin Recruiter... yes, it would be a totally diferent kind of deck, if you comparate it with the current Blitz-like lists. But it would be much more powerfull.
You can impersonate ringleader with a green splash and company. Instigator is the"modern " lackey .
It is not simply the cardpool. MOdern meta is mostly creature heavy so evey deack is prepared and able to deal with creatures. LEgacy meta is more spell centric so goblins inlegacy are hittign their head agaisnt a less sturdy wall.
I agree with you that twin wasn't really oppressive...however, it had some other issues:
- it was by default the best deck in modern; not by a large margin, but still, most pro's gravitated towards twin because it was the best choice against an open field: Favored against linear aggro and ramp, a good winning chance against midrange (pre-board slightly negative, but post-board at least even with Keranos etc.), and your bad control matchups ware basically non-existent or mostly just mirror matches.
- it did stifle archetype-diversity...playing blue-based control without twin was just worse than with twin. Unfortunately, blue-based control is still to weak right now, but as soon as it get's an additional good card, I expect several different control decks to emerge (Jeskai Nahiri, Grixis, maybe Esper/UW)
They could have solved that by banning the exarch... the other creatures with the same effect are either not bolt proof or are of a third color. THat might have been enough to tone down the deck a bit.
Just saying its a very luck dependent match..how youplay in this mtch is less relevant than the opponent hand.
ps: trying a new list with simian spirit guide and warden instigator....
Nonsese.. only tron has been in the format from its start andthe racign existed sicne dayone. Also all these terrains are dealt with ghost quarter, and no one cares if they get a free basic as replacement.
MM is a clear design failure because they made it cost the same as it targets. If it targeted 2 cc or it costed 2 phyrexian blue and coutnered 1 cc, then it would not lock the cycle on itself.
dredge is just ..drege... notworth trying to classify the most orthogonal deck of magic (be iut inlegacy or in modern). It has its own position of weirdo that sits inthe corner of the room and talks to no one.
It is not a good match. If he starts we have basically zero chance on winning unless he has a bad hand. He will combo on 4thturn and phyrexian unlife means he has exrta 10 life to start with.
It is not logical to have 4 reckless bushwackers and 2 chieftain. Chieftain gives the same effect and ALSO works when youhave not cast other spell yet.
First match was agaisnt ad nauseum. He started and Ikept an ok hand but not super explosive. I pushed him for 4 life.. then he comboed..
Second game.. drawn 7 lands, mulligan, draw 6 lands...w tf?? mulligan draw 1 land 4 cards, includign a blood moon, so I kept it sicne if I drew 2 lansdin a row I would win.. but.. I drew no seocnd land onthat game
Second Match Boggles: Had some comeptition on fitst match, but boggles is simply faster (that points to a problem in goblins)
Third game. Elves. 2 tough matchs but on both he eventually stablized with low life before the elf lord gave him the upperhand ( why in hell goblins have the worse lords by far? )He coutnered my goblin grenades with warping wall .. 2 times
Fourth match: Afinity.. both 2 trully played matchs, but affinity is simply faster and gains life due to skirge.
Fifth game: Soul sisters... need I to explain the match?
I feel I need WAY more explosiveness. I do nto think even I coudl use ringleader AND goblin recruiter it woudl have made a difference. MOdern is much more explosive allor nothign than legacy (due to the better coutners in legacy peopel cannot realy on beign so all or nothing). THere is no simple way I can have a nuts second turn and the nutness of a nut third turn is not that insane . Probably the best I can do is FSD followed by piledriver folowed by rablemaster. Think well that is NOT an impressive third turn...., or a harder to get lien woudl be quest for goblin lord -> warmarschall -> legion loyalist + kicked bushwacker ( that is indeed a strong third turn, but harder to come by...)
THink I need to use somemana acecleration to get a rablemaster online second turn somehow.
Grixis control or the more agroish version? If you splash to white, thalia and celestial purge help a lot.
ON th e instigator vs lackey.. it is not even the 1 vs 2 CMC.. its the lack of haste that would otherwise make it work. Maybe.... MAYBE the card we need is mass hysteria... well not gonna hurt to test.
We will never have the same deck.. but that does not make it impossible. Look for example Legacy Death and TAxes vs Modern Death and Taxes. Modern version has much weaker tools but it still can work enough to be a tier 2 deck, just exploiting the format reliance on fetch lands...
The closest thing we have to the lackey is W. Instigator, but the lack of haste makes a huge difference. If we had a 1 mana goblin that just gave haste to every goblin, just that, nothign else that would probably be enough to make this a tier 2 liear deck. Our card pool is smaller.. but so it is of every deck...
To make it a more midrangish deck we would need a way to search/buy goblins.
One point that I am yelled at when I say it, but I still think has some value is that G.Guide is NOT as good as people think in modern. With the much narrower set of tools to search for answers in modern, giving free draws to opponents (when he draws a land is a free draw of the next spell already that will replace his natural draw next turn) is much more problematic in modern than in legacy. Against several decks, I feel that guide just hurt us more than helps.
Always apity that this block we will see no goblins and I am not with high bets for anegypt themed set that comes next
You can impersonate ringleader with a green splash and company. Instigator is the"modern " lackey .
It is not simply the cardpool. MOdern meta is mostly creature heavy so evey deack is prepared and able to deal with creatures. LEgacy meta is more spell centric so goblins inlegacy are hittign their head agaisnt a less sturdy wall.
They could have solved that by banning the exarch... the other creatures with the same effect are either not bolt proof or are of a third color. THat might have been enough to tone down the deck a bit.