It's probably just because I'm a die hard aggro player (been playing zoo, goblins, stompy, suicide black, white weenie since 96) but I think mimic is essential to the beat down plan. Mimic into Matter Reshaper can attack into any two/three drop currently being played. The humans deck plays 20 Savannah Lions which are horrible late game draws but they'd never cut any of them. If you curve right mimic is a 3/2 on turn three 4/4 on turn four 5/5 on turn five. That's a lot of damage.
Matter Reshaper is really the only card we have that provides a mild card advantage. Helps you refuel after a board wipe, get ahead on lands or draw removal. Plus the 3/2 body attacks into Sylvan Advocate, Bounding Krasis, Recruiter, (front side) Pacifict without fear.
Endbringer as one of was pretty good for me. Body triggers mimics, threat on it's own, massive card advantage. Although I don't think playing Ob Nixilis would be wrong in anyway.
Again I just prefer to beat down but that's not to say you can't have success slowing the deck down as the 5-0 competitive league deck shows.
My big issue with Grip of Desolation is doesn't it have to have a creature to target too or it can't be cast?
Granted if they're about to flip abbey they have a creature, but just in general, doesn't it have to have both a land and creature to target?
You do have to target both but Westvale Abbey is creature on the flip side and it's safe to assume your opponent would have a land on the battlefield at that point. That said I still don't like the card but splashing more white for Anguished Unmaking really screws up the mana.
5-0 in MTGO league by ferrum0728. The use of Kalitas is pretty interesting. Not super aggro but a one card army. I assume Grip of Desolation is a hedge against Westvale Abbey?
Granted I haven't played this deck beyond testing much, but here are some of my key points when thinking about Dark Eldraxi.
1) Wasteland Strangler is a beast, HUGE tempo swing, and -3/-3 hits a lot of creatures. The deck does need to have plenty of help for him though since the earlier his effect hits the better.
2) Bearer of Silence is a hit or miss. He can be great, but the deck needs to be somewhat conformed to him, lots of removal so they can't sac a chump.
3) Besides TKS, black is the only color with hand hate, and it's pretty good right now.
4) Black has some of the best removal in the format right now, Declaration in Stone is overrated.
5) Black has quite a few aggress creatures, and can definitely play aggro pretty dang well.
Based on those 5 points I really see the deck playing 1 of 3 ways.
1) Removal heavy midrange focusing on keeping the board clear with kill spells, then swinging in. This is Bearer of Silence's Deck
2) Discard heavy midrange focusing on removing big threats from the hand and winning the board with bigger value dudes. This is Wasteland Stranglers deck.
3) Creature heavy Aggro-Midrange focusing on getting a good creature out along the entire curve. This would be more of a Drana/Pitiless Horde style.
I think one and three are essentially the same deck. Every good aggro deck has ways to clear the way for their attacks. Eight to twelve removal spells isn't out of the ordinary in a typical aggro deck. At worst Bearer of Silence is 2/1 flyer which isn't negligible in a beat down deck. The "kicker" cost just makes sure that he remains a relevant late game draw.
The discard heavy option is interesting but I think the space is better occupied by other decks in the format. Esper gets to rebuy spells with Jace. Mardu gets value from Dark Dwellers. Seasons past has... Seasons Past. Plus you run into the classic heavy discard trap of you just get run over by whatever sneaks under your discard spells. I think siding into a lot of discard taking out spot removal is a great plan against Esper, Mardu, various token strategies but I don't think being a mono-black control deck is a viable option.
Ran this at fnm last night to pretty good results. Pretty much just stole kpals list from page one except I used Blighted Fen instead of Rogue's Passage. And only had discard spells sideboard and four Eldrazi Mimic main.
The deck ran amazing. If you curve out Mimic, Reshaper, Thought-Knot, Smasher the pressure is real. That said the games I lost, I lost really bad and just got stuck with a bunch of 2/1's in hand. But that could be from me keeping questionable 7's.
I wasn't overly impressed with Drana. She has no haste and doesn't trigger mimic although there are really no good alternatives. She at least ate a removal spell. Mimic did serious work consistently triggering into a 4/4 or 5/5. Pitiless Horde and Endbringer did exactly what they needed to do and were great.
I feel the deck is still a little weak to a flipped Westvale Abbey but luckily I was always able to keep enough pressure on to where tokens were on chump block duty.
This was my first event with the deck and I did have some pretty sick draws in most games but it was a blast to play and I'm looking forward to next week.
Thursday night when I played, I replaced Mimic for 2x duress and 2x Transgress the mind. It was very helpful in ripping out Languish, planeswalkers and Collected Company. Against the Bant Cocc deck I faced I removed it 2x and he never cast it any of our 3 games. Maybe hand disruption deserves a spot?
Maybe I need more convincing from your angel. Or maybe your meta is more forging of our deck? Either way, I am willing to hear more of your battle plan.
The discard was great against Esper and both token decks but I feel like having it main really hampers your aggressive start. I would cut Ultimate Price if you're really dead set on main boarding it. I don't think it's ever right to cut down on threats.
This list made Top 8 at SCG Edison over the weekend. I like the use of Lightning Strike over Bile Blight as removal that can just go straight to the opponents face to close out a game.
Cards for consideration: Goblin Rabblemaster:plays nicer with Butcher but not so nice with Anger of the Gods. Much faster clock on an empty board. Elspeth, Sun's Champion: Might just be a better finisher.
Removal is obviously subject to change. Some number of Banishing Light is probably appropriate. I'm debating weather the main deck Angers are necessary and maybe just a SB option.
Apologies in advance I wanted to ask this in one of the other threads but they were all locked.
If Fiend Hunter is on the battlefield exiling a Wurmcoil Engine and you double Cloudshift to permanently exile a Grave Titan is there a way to have the Fiend Hunter come back temporarily exiling the Wurmcoil Engine or would it not be a legal target because the original leaves the battlefield trigger is still on the stack?
I tried to go Delver minus stalkers, Geist, equipment and add burn. What do you think? Maybe -1 Wrath, +1 Ravings. Four volleys may be a bit excessive.
Whatever build you do the first question to ask is if it beats the UW curve of Delver -> Pike -> St Traft? I´m not so sure anything does.
Or in shorter words: the Ur route is inferior to UW.
I think the main draw to going Red over White is being able to just end the game with Brimstone Volley/Thunderous Wrath. Without those two there is really no reason to be red.
I think that card would have to either tap 2 critters, or cost 1 less to be playable - but I could be wrong. I'm still very uncertain on the 2-5 slots I have open where Garruk and Arc Trail are.
They're very tough spots to fill because you want more creatures to be more aggressive or even play powerful things like Garruk or Swords but you also have to hit critical mass of spells because there's Delver in the deck.
It needs to be a sort of Vapor Snag type spell that can temp out/deal with threats. I don't like Probe because sorcery speed spells don't play well with all the wolves.
Some sort of tap effect would be nice but the new one is just so underwhelming. I've thought about a one of Moonmist but usually just end up concluding it's too cute.
Matter Reshaper is really the only card we have that provides a mild card advantage. Helps you refuel after a board wipe, get ahead on lands or draw removal. Plus the 3/2 body attacks into Sylvan Advocate, Bounding Krasis, Recruiter, (front side) Pacifict without fear.
Endbringer as one of was pretty good for me. Body triggers mimics, threat on it's own, massive card advantage. Although I don't think playing Ob Nixilis would be wrong in anyway.
Again I just prefer to beat down but that's not to say you can't have success slowing the deck down as the 5-0 competitive league deck shows.
You do have to target both but Westvale Abbey is creature on the flip side and it's safe to assume your opponent would have a land on the battlefield at that point. That said I still don't like the card but splashing more white for Anguished Unmaking really screws up the mana.
4 Bearer of Silence
2 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
2 Hedron Crawler
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Grip of Desolation
3 Ultimate Price
3 Blighted Fen
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Llanowar Wastes
3 Ruins of Oran-Rief
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
10 Swamp
3 Duress
3 Languish
2 Read the Bones
3 Transgress the Mind
2 Virulent Plague
2 Warping Wail
5-0 in MTGO league by ferrum0728. The use of Kalitas is pretty interesting. Not super aggro but a one card army. I assume Grip of Desolation is a hedge against Westvale Abbey?
I think one and three are essentially the same deck. Every good aggro deck has ways to clear the way for their attacks. Eight to twelve removal spells isn't out of the ordinary in a typical aggro deck. At worst Bearer of Silence is 2/1 flyer which isn't negligible in a beat down deck. The "kicker" cost just makes sure that he remains a relevant late game draw.
The discard heavy option is interesting but I think the space is better occupied by other decks in the format. Esper gets to rebuy spells with Jace. Mardu gets value from Dark Dwellers. Seasons past has... Seasons Past. Plus you run into the classic heavy discard trap of you just get run over by whatever sneaks under your discard spells. I think siding into a lot of discard taking out spot removal is a great plan against Esper, Mardu, various token strategies but I don't think being a mono-black control deck is a viable option.
4 eldrazi mimic
4 Bearer of Silence
3 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-knot seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Pitiless Horde
1 Endbringer
4 Ultimate Price
4 Grasp of Darkness
2 Ruinous Path
Land
10 swamp
4 llanowar wastes
4 caves of koilos
2 blighted fen
2 sea gate wreckage
2 Ruins of Oran-rief
4 Transgress the Mind
3 duress
2 Virulent Plague
2 ever after
2 Infinite Obliteration
2 ruinous path
2-0 Esper Dragons
2-0 Naya Tokens
2-1 Mardu Control
2-1 GW Tokens
2-1 Esper Dragons (different one)
The deck ran amazing. If you curve out Mimic, Reshaper, Thought-Knot, Smasher the pressure is real. That said the games I lost, I lost really bad and just got stuck with a bunch of 2/1's in hand. But that could be from me keeping questionable 7's.
I wasn't overly impressed with Drana. She has no haste and doesn't trigger mimic although there are really no good alternatives. She at least ate a removal spell. Mimic did serious work consistently triggering into a 4/4 or 5/5. Pitiless Horde and Endbringer did exactly what they needed to do and were great.
I feel the deck is still a little weak to a flipped Westvale Abbey but luckily I was always able to keep enough pressure on to where tokens were on chump block duty.
This was my first event with the deck and I did have some pretty sick draws in most games but it was a blast to play and I'm looking forward to next week.
The discard was great against Esper and both token decks but I feel like having it main really hampers your aggressive start. I would cut Ultimate Price if you're really dead set on main boarding it. I don't think it's ever right to cut down on threats.
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Battlefield Forge
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Mana Confluence
4 Nomad Outpost
2 Temple of Malice
2 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Triumph
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Lightning Strike
1 Despise
4 Thoughtseize
2 Suspension Field
2 Nyx-Fleece Ram
3 Magma Spray
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Despise
1 Harness by Force
This list made Top 8 at SCG Edison over the weekend. I like the use of Lightning Strike over Bile Blight as removal that can just go straight to the opponents face to close out a game.
4 Butcher of the Horde
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
Artifacts/Enchantments (1)
1 Whip of Erebos
Spells (19)
4 Sign In Blood
2 Crackling Doom
3 Thoughtseize
4 Despise
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Bile Blight
2 Magma Spray
2 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Mana Confluence
4 Nomad Outpost
4 Butcher of the Horde
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Artifacts/Enchantments (1)
1 Whip of Erebos
Spells (20)
4 Sign In Blood
2 Crackling Doom
4 Thoughtseize
3 Despise
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Bile Blight
2 Magma Spray
2 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Mana Confluence
4 Nomad Outpost
Cards for consideration:
Goblin Rabblemaster:plays nicer with Butcher but not so nice with Anger of the Gods. Much faster clock on an empty board.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion: Might just be a better finisher.
Removal is obviously subject to change. Some number of Banishing Light is probably appropriate. I'm debating weather the main deck Angers are necessary and maybe just a SB option.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
If Fiend Hunter is on the battlefield exiling a Wurmcoil Engine and you double Cloudshift to permanently exile a Grave Titan is there a way to have the Fiend Hunter come back temporarily exiling the Wurmcoil Engine or would it not be a legal target because the original leaves the battlefield trigger is still on the stack?
4 Snapcaster
4 Legionnaire
2 Lavamancer
4 Ponder
4 Mana Leak
4 Vapor Snag
4 Brimstone Volley
3 Thunderous Wrath
3 Incinerate
2 Desperate Ravings
5 Mountains
4 Sulfur Falls
3 Desolate Lighthouse
I tried to go Delver minus stalkers, Geist, equipment and add burn. What do you think? Maybe -1 Wrath, +1 Ravings. Four volleys may be a bit excessive.
I think the main draw to going Red over White is being able to just end the game with Brimstone Volley/Thunderous Wrath. Without those two there is really no reason to be red.
They're very tough spots to fill because you want more creatures to be more aggressive or even play powerful things like Garruk or Swords but you also have to hit critical mass of spells because there's Delver in the deck.
It needs to be a sort of Vapor Snag type spell that can temp out/deal with threats. I don't like Probe because sorcery speed spells don't play well with all the wolves.
Some sort of tap effect would be nice but the new one is just so underwhelming. I've thought about a one of Moonmist but usually just end up concluding it's too cute.