MTG Salvation

No love for Chandra's Phoenix?

3 for a 2/2 Haste Flyer is pretty good, run enough burn to recur it easily and it becomes a ***** kitty.

Quote from Kamahl, the Fallen

Where RR is a one shot kind of deal.

When it's a head shot, you only need one.

Quote from LiquidMagic

My problem with Mutavault is that the deck plays 3 colors and wants to be able to cast Reckoner and Obzedat consistently.

Now this is a legitimate reason not to play Mutavault - much better than "my opponent might kill it if I do something stupid."

Quote from Kamahl, the Fallen

Mods letting the infamous trolls run wild? I can't be the only one completely bothered and reporting the repeated attempts at derailment. And how many of the mods have came by here today? I am at 4 or 5 if I recall.

Please trust me on this: if the mods choose not to card one of us on something you report, it's not because the FoS are the mod's favorites or anything - that couldn't be farther from the truth - it's because disagreeing with you and telling you exactly why you're wrong isn't against the rules.

Even if you really want it to be.

Kind of like how Purge is not better than Return.

Even if you really want it to be.

Feel free to move on down, but anyone under the impression that it's just conservative white folk country has about no clue what they're talking about.

I'd suggest maybe visiting some areas before you decide to pack up and move, but if all you're looking for is the ability to go to church, own/carry a gun, and be a straight white man without catching flak about it then I can tell you that I've personally never had an issue with any of that.

This thread delivers exactly what the title promised.



Good job everyone!

Well, OP, there are alternative forums...

I don't think anyone is ignorant of my feelings towards Vexing Devil (on the off-chance you are - I think it's trash), but there actually is a logical reason to run it in that deck: It pumps all your Experiment Ones and Gyre Sages on the board when played.

Don't get me wrong, I still don't think VD's good... but at least there's a legitimate reason to play it in that.

Comment Hidden

Quote from Talz

I think I might indeed try Olivia! What do you take out for her?

There's not really one specific card you take out for any other card - the SB plan is a package deal:

Aggro: -4 Cackler, -4 Stromkirk, -2 Stonewright, -2 Jester; +4 Dreadbore, +3 Mortars, +2 Olivia, +2 Frostburn, +1 Reckoner

Midrange: -4 Cackler, -4 Stromkirk, -4 Pillar; +4 Dreadbore, +3 Mortars, +2 Olivia, +2 Rakdos's Return, +1 Reckoner

Control: -3 Reckoner, -4 Pillar; +4 Dreadbore, +3 Rakdos's Return

Reanimator: -4 Pillar, +4 Dreadbore

Against Aggro and Midrange you take out your very low impact early game stuff and just play defense until you can start dropping superior threats that they can't deal with well. The bonus here is that your opponents will board in to deal with an Aggro deck and you'll have a Midrange deck - instead of both decks becoming better suited to take on the other, your deck becomes better and their's becomes worse.

Against Control and Reanimator you do about the same thing - remove spells that don't do much in those MUs for ones that do and race them.

Quote from Iso

What do tigers have to do with home defense? I was talking about applied use of a crossbow in hunting vs. home defense.

Well, a tiger should rate higher on the "Probably an Effective Deterrent, but Much Less Practical than a Gun for Home Defense" scale when compared to a crossbow as both more effective and less practical for home defense.

It's something to keep in mind if you're going to be considering strictly worse alternatives to a gun.

Quote from McGimp

T1 - Experiment One
T2 - Goblin Guide (Evolve), Kurd Ape (Evolve). Swing for 5
T3 - Vexing Devil (Evolve) 2 mana for burn spells or other creatures. Swing for 8

Welcome to Modern. Gruul Aggro

Welcome to the Standard forums.

Quote from LeoninKha

It doesn't matter, if he can't express his opinions in a good matter no one will pay attention, thats his problem. And I know this because I used to be like that, after all I've been playing for 17 years now, and just because I may have "casual" ideas, does not mean that I don't recognize they are so. He seems to think he knows me enough to flail at me like I don't know anything. Thats just ignorance and an overgrown ego.

Edit: But its fine, I only posted here because I saw someone picked up a deck idea that I've been developing since M13 came out. Won't be coming back after this.

I guess you're wrong, because enough people like me and find me useful enough to vote for me in the forum awards - look; I even have two!

My issue with you is that you peddle ideas that show an incredible lack if understanding of competitive magic. You can claim 17 years of experience all you like; but I strongly suspect the veracity of the claim. Posters like yourself can be a toxic influence on the community - your faux air of authority draws in learning players and ******* their understanding if the game. Others might be too polite to call you out; I have no such issue when you carry on in the house I built.

My ego is so big that I have 1200+ PMs helping people with their ideas, skill development and deck lists. It's SO big I have nearly a dozen articles, an 80,000 word primer and 50 plus hours of video content, so that the other red mages here can get better. An SCG winner, Ari Lax, Cedric Phillips, Travis Woo and Michael Jacob all acknowledged using ideas from my content in their decks; so if I come across as having an ego I am sorry, but I know what I am saying is correct and that the vast majority of your content is not. There's a reason I single you out instead of the majority of bad posters here ~ you don't seem to realise that you're not as good as you think you are; and your attempts to represent yourself as a figure of authority are bad for the community. I don't have to hide behind fancy words or claims of experience or weak arguments that try to undermine someone else's position based on their tone (if you're as old as you claim, you can do better); my work speaks for itself.

So does yours actually.

Quote from Alexander of Future Ruins

I don't abbreviate the word in the same way that you do, chill out. Also you'd be unhappy too if they were purposely wrecking your archetype.

Next set let's print Mana drain and Balance, but you get Grizzly Bears as the best creature, but don't voice your opinion at that, you should learn to adapt and play dem grizzy bears like a pro.

I just... I just want everyone to pause for a second and realize that this literally happened. That was the actual state of magic up until about 5 or 6th edition not sure which. That was a real thing 21 green creatures in a set, in the same set as balance and mana drain.
So over the years I've learned to appreciate the various types of decks that have existed and come to prominence.

If you're a control player... things are harder now... and really well the SHOULD be harder than they were before. Basically, because as is mentioned in this thread. . . I REALLY sounds like you're saying.

"I want to win the game at wrath effect vs aggro" that is the most mindless play EVER. . . in an environment where there's mostly cards of the creatures are of grizzly bear strength.
So is the idea that lets say "I" as a control player am "supposed to win on strength of my cards!" well that rubric has to change for the good of magic.

There has to be diversity in the decks or the game will eventually cease to be. The main thing that hoses control, and what no one has really said in this thread is "card advantage".
To make the game balanced for all colors wizards had to create some kind of card advantage across the colors.
Further, since they couldn't take the magic words: "Draw a card"
and but them in every color, they've found appropriate and diverse ways to balance and spread card advantage around.

There are many lines of conversation in this thread so I'm gonna wrap it up.

This is the best environment with the MOST amount of competitive deck types magic has ever seen.
Control takes skill, aggro takes skill, Midrange... ugh. It takes skill as much as I hate to say it. It does because the "degenerate" (yet skilled) jund player has just as much to worry about from a skilled aggro player as he does from a
control player, as he does from some one still playing humanimator combo.

If you're look at the other archtypes and "they're really hosing us!" understand that aggro players have felt that way too.

This is just like how Resto + Healer + Thragtusk completely and utterly killed Aggro forever.

Anyone else remember that?

No?

Oh well then... nevermind.

I remember that. I remember working hard with you guys when we couldn't even get Mono-red in the competitive forums back in RTR (I remember arguing with you when you told me "vexing devil sucks" think and adapt! you were so spot on.)

Thing is... we DIDN'T have BTE pre-gatecrash, we sure as hell didn't have Boros Reckoner (a card many of us STILL don't maindeck).
We knuckled down tried hard with the tools we had, and tried every iteration and found what works in the environment.

That was not easy but it was fulfilling, I challenge the control player's who are complaining to go to the forums of the control deck they want to play and make it happen.
Today on Cockatrice I played against and AWESOME control player, we were testing pregatecrash standard, and he was playing American Control.
It had turn and burn verdicts, terminus and detention spheres, had pillar of flame, both charms and and sphinxes, and syncopate/dissapate, I was really impressed with cause it was totally draw go, he killed me and my voice of resurgence deck like it was his birthright.

If you look at the cards aggro is getting and feel slighted, you really just need to get with the guys who are WINNING right now. and try harder.

I am already a loyal subject of redthirst.

The Speakeasy

Teia Rabishu has left the WCT Staff and moved to The Speakeasy.

Quote from redthirst

there is no VD hate (no more than any other Aggro creature)

redthirst, although you are a god among men and the most beautiful among us, I'd like to slightly disagree with you here.

VD is VD hate.

Quote from Valarin

Yes, because not confirming the existence of a hypothetical subatomic particle means "never invest in science"

You are completely ignorant of what this confirmation could lead to, so you cannot put a value on its research. We all are in that boat. That's what I'm tying to say and you refuse to understand.

"Fire useless. Fire not kill mammoth. Fire not make cave. What good fire?"

Just imagine that for a moment. That you cannot grasp the benefit of confirming the Higgs Boson does not allow you to decry its research as a waste.

Quote from Valarin

Says the man who calls feeding hungry people "a waste".

You should be absolutely ashamed of yourself. I sincerely hope someday you fall on hard times and experience the inhumanity and outright cruelty of people who have your opinion first hand. It's truly disgusting. Off to the ignore list with you.

I know it's a cold view, but it is most certainly not short sighted. Maybe I'm a monster, but I think someone who would actively dampen our understanding of the universe is far worse.

Unfed people die in our age. Completed research betters the lives of an untold amount of people.

You know what I find disgusting? Not that you would wish such a hardship on me because I think lightly of those in said hardship. That's just hypocrisy. No, it's that, if I were unable to contribute to society and take care of myself, I wouldn't want to burden someone else with that responsibility. That would be disgusting.

Quote from Valarin

Such as? Last I checked you can't feed, cloth, or house someone with a Higgs Boson.

Just as I thought, terribly shortsighted.

Go back a few decades and say "Last I checked, you can't feed, cloth, or house someone with quantum mechanics." Then we invent a transistor. Then a whole new world of possibilities opens up.

This kind of stuff actually does solve real world problems. You just have to not be ignorant of science and history to realize that. You also have to be patient.

Sell the Firemane and Precinct captain, and go buy 3 more Ash Zealots.