MTG Salvation

If you want to post a land probability chart, zeman, this one will probably be more helpful:

Probability of Hitting Your Curve (assuming you're on the play):

# of lands - % chance of having 1+ land/1st turn - 2+ land/2nd turn - etc

# - 1+/1 - 2+/2 - 3+/3 - 4+/4 - 5+/5 - 6+/6
18 - 93% - 76% - 54% - 34% - 19% - 9%
19 - 94% - 80% - 59% - 39% - 23% - 12%
20 - 95% - 82% - 64% - 44% - 27% - 15%
21 - 96% - 85% - 68% - 49% - 32% - 19%
22 - 97% - 87% - 72% - 54% - 37% - 23%
23 - 97% - 89% - 76% - 59% - 42% - 27%
24 - 98% - 91% - 79% - 63% - 47% - 32%
25 - 98% - 93% - 82% - 68% - 52% - 37%

Been playing around with Hellkites, but they seem really clunky... like, I'm have a lot more situations where they sit in the hand doing nothing for 3+ turns while I durdle with topdecks than where I curve out to 5 and start beating.

Maybe they're necessary because they do tend to win games when they hit if your opponent doesn't have an instant speed kill spell for them, but it feels like if those slots were replaced with an aggressive 2-3cc spell then they'd win the game 3 turns sooner.

Of course, you should take this with a grain of salt. When I say "playing around", that's what I mean - mainly goldfishing and very light testing to get a feel for the deck - not serious play testing.

I only bring this up so that y'all can give Hellkite serious consideration on whether it belongs in the deck or not. Don't get in the mind-set that if Hellkite hits you win and if it doesn't you lose so it must be an auto-include... that may be true, but it may be that you lose games when it doesn't hit because those were dead cards in your deck/hand that game.

Also don't assume that just because it's a good card that it belongs in RDW. Thundermaw Hellkite is a very good card, but so is Bonfire of the Damned and Bonfire does not belong in this deck.

Is Thundermaw in the same category as Bonfire? I don't know, but I do know that this thread is getting to the point where people are ready to proclaim it as an auto 2-4 of in any aggro red deck - and we're not anywhere close to being able to say that with certainty.

Anywho, that being said, I've got a playset of Hellkites on the way so I'll be prepared if the deck does need to swing in that direction.

Here's what I brewed after taking Hellkites out of the list because they were clunking up the deck:



Basically, I wanted to focus on the deck's primary plan of Turn 1 - agressive creature, Turn 2+ - hasty beats. It has 11 1cc creatures and 11 2cc haste creatures to maximize the chance of a super aggressive start.

I tried Hellion Crucible as a 4-of and 3-of before I cut it down to 2. I like it, and it's a solid Plan B, but a good Plan B should never compromise the Plan A and Crucible was doing that way too often by screwing up my second turn mana.

Quote from Vexing Devil

Wow! 8 pages about me?! I'm honored!

I'm not that bad you know, you just have to get to know me..

You're just never what I need when I need it.

When I want a long-term relationship, you're only interested in hitting it and quitting it, but when what I need is a quick fling, you become clingy and want to hang around.

I just need a more dependable creature in my decks right now. I hope we can still be friends.

Quote from Artificial Alchemist

skewing vexing devil discussion, has anyone tried out Dragon Hatchling? Maybe as 2 of replacing a couple chainwalkers. Can swing in for 3 if you dont have a 3 drop or seems decent as a lategame manasink instead of stonewright since it has evasion. Current body on it is kinda a turn off, but feels like it has underlying potential with firebreathing and evasion built in.

I'm not the biggest fan of Stonewright, but I'll play it all day every day over Dragon Hatchling.

Stonewright:
-cost less mana
-has pseudo-haste (allowing a creature that can attack to pump)
-can do damage without having to pump it
-makes another creature (especially Ash Zealot) more dangerous to block

Quote from Lauphiette Kincey

Hamfactorial was like "this KoI card has applications". When I looked at it, I orgasmed repeatedly because the card did everything.

Good thing KoI has protection from white.

Tip to those testing brews with cockatrice: save your replays. Study them, find out what you did wrong, learn and grow. I'm pretty raw when it comes to this deck and playstyle, but I am learning fast by putting games in and analyzing my losses when they come.

In fact, why don't we start showcasing replays from cockatrice to show off builds?

If anyone doesn't mind, I'm going to post a recent replay of me playing against a RWB rites deck. The opposition's deck is fairly low level (as well as both the players actually :)) but it does show you how effective the deck can be.

Game 1 I keep a slow hand of 2 hellkites, 2 summits, a spear, a mountain and a cavern. He keeps digging for stuff and manages to whiff on unburials all of 5 turns. I manage to draw a 3rd hellkite. I play spear and pillar to at least get value out of them, and he plays souls. I rip my first hellkite and swing for 5. He plays Liliana to sac it. I play my 2nd hellkite and swing for 5 again, ignoring Liliana. He severs the dragon's bloodline, then passes. I bring the thunder(maw) for a third consecutive time and he's incredulous and doesn't even gg (I wouldn't to, to be fair :p)

Summary, I'm against a fairly slow deck, and thankfully so, because I played a slow hand. Good thing the topdeck gods were in my favor, denying him rites and granting me dragons.

SB: -4 cackler, -2 stonewright || +2 conscripts, +2 traitorous blood, +2 slaughtergames. I wanted to slaughter games all his rites denying him his most important engine, and control his fatties when I can. Simple. Should've sided severs for pillars, which was my bad.

Game 2, was hilarious. He manages to rites a Griselbrand, passes, I traitorous blood it and swing and draw digging for my next mind control. I get conscripts and pass. He swings to gain life and doesn't use the draw ability. I play conscripts and swing, then use the draw ability to dig for another mind control. I get traitorous AND aristocrat. He swings on his turn and passes. I yoink the Griselbrand again and play the aristocrat, hoping to sac it EOT. He dies before I get the chance to.

So, check the reps out, I'll try to get more games in (at work atm), but I hope other guys will load theirs too. This is a golden oppurtunity to not only learn from your misplays but from others' also.

Thanks!

To new posters:

While everyone is not as forthcoming as Redthirst, he does this thread a favor. He doesn't need defending, I'm just making a point. He's been at this thread for as long as the OP and has seen, discussed, brewed, and played just about every playable angle this deck can bring. He's not the be all end all source, but he's pretty reliable.

At 3000 posts, to even read the word cryptborne at this point saddens me. Thus the purpose of the directness, so people stop bringing these cards up. If we were in the established forum, I'd be posting thoughts on vexing into volley all day, but until then, I try to brew consistency and reliability.

So you're wrong, got it. You're happy to make things up to suit your argument, awesome. Must be nice. You claimed that aggro decks were not getting top spots at SCG events. Now you're saying they have the least spots ~ except:

SCG Providence Top 16: On a conservative count, 7 aggro decks in the top 16. This is more than the control decks (the remainder are midrange).

SCG Cincinnati Top 16: 8 Aggro decks in the Top 16. Again, this is more than the control decks.

So, now we know:
- aggro decks are doing well everywhere
- you're comfortable fabricating facts to support a lame argument

Outstanding contribution.

Quote from wontonwhacka

So I've been following the thread for a while and I had a quick question for Dos Rakis players. I really like the Rb feel of the deck but was wondering why Diregraf Ghoul hasn't really been discussed. He seems like a super solid one drop and I've been running 4 of him, 4 cacklers, 4 nobles, and 2 stonewrights as my one drops to speed everything up with some success. Right now I'm running the 8 duals and two swamps in my deck and everything's been fine so far. His drawback just feels insignificant in this deck and adding more one drops to lower the curve even more seems nice.

Thoughts?

The ghoul isn't played in these decks because he's not reliably castable. Yes, he's a bear on turn 1; yes, his drawback is irrelevant; yes, he's low on the curve. But, he's not castable. The probability of having a turn-1 black in your opening hand is 40%; the probability of having a turn-1 black and a ghoul in your opener is 13%. This is abysmal.

Even if he was castable, you now have to consider his competition: Stromkirk Noble, Stonewright, and Rakdos Cackler. Stonewright's proven to be a house, Rakdos Cackler is a house and infinitely more easy to cast, and the Noble's currently on probation. You certainly don't want to add him into the mix without removing something because then your curve is TOO low. You can only cast so many ones before they start to get out-classed, so eventually you want to see more influential cards.

In summary, if he was castable, he could probably take the place of Stromkirk Noble, but he isn't with our mana-base, so I'd just stick with the other dudes.

Quote from AnAcuteAngle

Just personal preference. I'll probably end up doing that.

I'd give you a better reason, but budget isn't allowed in this forum.

And I'll probably get an infraction for responding to your question with that last statement.

You should just pretend like you have Blood Crypts and test like that. It's stupid to continue the charade and does no one any good. If RB is better, play RB. This is the competitive section.

Quote from Yorutenchi

Wrong. I'm gonna get flamed for this but I really don't care. Vexing devil is an auto 4 of in all my RDW and burn variants. He has the most consistant damage output. With all of the new haste creatures it really doesn't matter that we don't land a creature turn 1 or turn 2. We still keep up pressure.

In rakdos its even better. If you don't like playing him then go right ahead. I find him very useful and he advances the clock 90% of the time.

he may not be fit as a 4 of and I may take him down to 2-3 of. However every time I test I end up being slower when I don't play him.

You can think what you want to then. All the people who say Vexing Devil sucks are trying to do is help out the people that think it's a good card. In a format where Lava Spike is not a good card (aka Standard) Vexing Devil has no business being in your deck. The fact that you call him consistent shows a poor understanding of the card. He's not consistent at all. This card would be consistent:

Vexing Spike - R
Sorcery
Vexing Spike deals 4 damage to target player

This card will always do exactly what you want in a burn deck, whether it's cast on turn 1 or turn 10. Unfortunately Vexing Devil doesn't say that, it says Vexing Devil deals 4 damage to target player if they're okay with that. If the 4 damage matters to them they'll just give you the 4/3 and kill it with removal or play bigger creatures. If they're unable to deal with the 4/3 then they were probably losing anyways regardless of what card you cast.

If you don't want to listen then so be it. All it means is more dead money in tournaments for those of us who build our decks correctly to prey upon.

Quote from Lauphiette Kincey

I was partly serious talking about Noble. Stonewright actually does stuff when you topdeck it. Noble sees any opposing creature on the board and cries.

That's not completely accurate, there are a lot of human creatures in standard that Noble just strolls right past, and Zombies isn't a deck that can block Noble particularly well either. It's true that Stonewright is a better late game draw since we generally have extra mana and not much to spend it on at that point so he turns all of that mana into damage where Stromkirk is just a bad 1/1 in those scenarios. Stromkirk Noble is still an important part of this deck though despite that weakness. He's by far the best turn 1 play we can make and can even give us free wins which can't really be said about the other 1 drops.