I had prowling perpopod in the original list but took it out for something big and stompy.
I like the enchantment removal on the thrashing brontodon but hammer mage in a much more efficient torpor orb destroyer. If there was something repeatable that hit both artifact and enchantments on a body I'd be so happy!
there's also that guy that allows you to play cards from the graveyard. some 6 mana 6/6; don't recall the name. i don't think it's all that good, since it naturally attracts kill spells, and depending on your meta, you're not gonna be able to cast it more than once or twice in any given game.
I've always been apprehensive to play a pseudo-general for obvious reasons.
I've ear marked the two recruiters but I really don't want to have to run a 5 colour deck to make it work specifically because of the land base I'd need to get hold of.
Red's in there for a few things, mainly the chaos colour and randomness of it, but yeah, possibility storm is a real factor.
I worry that if I run Lavinia as the general it'll just end up another WU control deck which is what I'm looking to avoid. I'm not a control player and I find grinding the game to a shuddering halt really annoying. I thought by adding red into the mix I can keep it a bit fresher.
Im not saying there's anything wrong with playing control/stax, it's just not something I want to sit down at the table with unless it has some seriously heavy follow through into a win!
I'm trying to get a list together using Jeskai colours to try and make a chaos control build.
I'm looking to run Ruhan of the Fomori as the general for theme and colours but underneath what I'm really running is a Lavinia, Azorius Renegade build that has access to red in order to use her ability to create completely one sided effects to control the board.
I'm not looking to create an annoying Grand Arbiter Augustin IV type of control deck. I hate that kind of control being played against me so need a slightly different way so settled on the idea of a chaos control build rather than all out control.
The Dream:
After creating the perfect deck list I'd like to create an almost group hug style draw using cards like dictate of kruphix and howling mine while Ruhan goes to town and creates a diversion
Then I hope to get Lavinia out and looking somewhat inoccuous in amongst other little hatebears like thalia, heretic cathar.
After that I'm looking to follow up with some kind of chaos enchantment like possibility storm or knowledge pool.
After that, a cheeky profaner of the dead saccing Ruhan and that should be game.
So.... Any thoughts on what cards might be good in a deck like this or perhaps some slightly inoffensive control cards that might work with what I'm trying to do?
Arcades, the strategist is great for durdling about while you build a board. The deck's main strength is that as you build a board you're actively defending yourself from incoming attacks because of the huge defender creatures.
The good thing about all the defenders is that you can play a huge number of one sided board wipes before a huge attack like slaughter the strong.
The downside its in the same colours as Estrid and I'm the kind of player who won't have two decks of the same colour combination.
Maybe check out @benjameenbear's Arcades Wall Ball Combo deck. Not sure how durdley his specific build is but as its his, it's sure to be strong.
Also, if you have a look under his main decklist there's a budget version too if you want to look at a cheaper version of the build.
I'm doing my best to steer away from paid activated abilities like hellkite charger's. It's a great card but I wanna try and pay all mana into making the board bigger for huge attack phases. If half my mana is constantly being poured into abilities it will half the amount I can use on casting more stompers.
That being said, wickerbough elder and caustic caterpiller might be a good shout to take out problem enchantments and artifacts.
I've seen propaganda and torpor orb played together. Because of the massive amount of mana the deck can make it meant I could play through it and just set full focus on that player until I knocked them out and torpor orb was no longer a problem.
I suppose it would be sensible to run a few activated removals.
I've finally got my hands on a bramble sovereign and it really is as good as you would assume. Double ETBs, double... Everything for what is conventionally one mana.
Took out Runic Armasuar who is a lot better in theory than in practice.
I tested knollspine dragon and I don't think it's for me. The current draw creatures do a pretty good job of keeping my hand stocked and in some cases I was overdrawing and discarding a lot of stuff at end of turn. There was never really a good time to drop it.
I think blinkmoth urn took me so long to cut was mainly because most of the times when I got it it was at a more or less decent time in the game. There were a few times when I drew it and it wasn't impactful but I must have been clinging onto memories of 'that time it won me the game'.
It's out now and it's unlikely to ever go back in at this point.
I'm actually going to test chaos wand that @SirSimic gave feedback on. My meta is rife with top deck tutors and decent green ramp spells that are asking to put wastes onto the field.
I don't usually go for card that yield unknown results but if the result is a player not getting to draw that bitter ordeal they went for with mystical tutor then it's definitely worth a punt. Don't know how I feel about holding 4 open though
I'm not a huge fan of Spawnsire.
If you sideboard a ton of threats and it gets taken out, you then have a sideboard full of useless.
But, on the same note as before at least you haven't just got bombs in your hand that don't pose as sufficient counters for Kozi2.0.
If you're playing a Timmy deck full of Craterhoof Behemoths and the like they might just work but more than likely you're going to be up against synergy builds who's curves are lower to the ground.
It serves you better to be sitting in the 1,2,3 drops to act as counters.
Scavenger Grounds is one I've been considering for a while. I'm thinking of taking out one of the weaker utility lands for it. Maybe Thespian's Stage because I rarely ever use the ability unless I'm copying a Strip Mine of the occasional Eldrazi Temple.
I tested Void Winnower and ran it in the deck for a few months after its release but I found it to just cause the table to have laser focus on my field and it generated far more hate than I was willing to deal with.
The problem with running that many high cost cards in your deck is that what're the chances of an opponent playing a 9 drop for you to pitch it to the Great Distortion? It doesn't pose that double use for you.
Blightsteel is another dude I pulled ages ago. He's a good substitute for Kozi with how oppressive it is and I used to run it with a janky infinite combo with Mirrorworks but I took out the infect monster. I can't remember my reasoning other than maybe taking it out for something more reactive or that offered filtering.
I think giant adephage is a bit tokeny for my build. Its a solid card for nikya and a great strategy but because I already have four other decks which are token oriented (locust god, mazirek, najeela and elenda) I'm trying to steer away from it where I can.
I love gigantomancer but as an 8 drop its hard to play and justify. In this deck I see it as a 4 drop which is much easier to think about!
Are you thinking Vexing shusher as a political play to make some alliances? If that's not the plan prowling serpopard does a much more cost effective job.
I was being very general with the Ibex and Scourge; the variables are vast in EDH.
Even though you're not token themed, have you thought about Bramble Sovereign? It's basically a creature version of Strionic Resonator that produces another body. Forking a Craterhoof or Acidic Slime can be valuable at varying times.
Bramble sovereign is amazing. One of my first EDH decks was a Riku of two reflections back when prophet of kruphix was legal.
As soo as I get my hands on one it'll go into the deck.
Gigantomancer seems not that great. It costs 8 to get him out and by that point you could be casting a Craterhoof or a Terastodon
I know it's not that great but it can help when dropping in small creatures with gruul ragebeast on the field, it helps when blocking and it can just tip up the damage output of the smaller creatures.
I know this shouldn't factor but it was the first rare card I owned so there's a soft spot for it as well and I've been looking for an excuse to run it!
back to basics is a painful one to see across the table. I'd rather see a blood moon!
Because we don't have access to very many removal spells that can deal with it.
Make sure that player is punished for it next game (which I think a T2 Kozi would have easily done).
I find a lot of games end in a scoop win if I play Kozilek early enough.
Stax can be tough if you don't have an explosive start. If you do, Kill the stax player!
So grafdigger's cage prevents creatures entering the battlefield from libraries and graveyards.
That means you can use planar bridge but you can't go and get a creature which usually isn't a big deal.
Reanimator stretegies or cards that stock the graveyard also hate this card. Generals likegrenzo, dungeon warden use the graveyard then ping to the battlefield but the cage stops that completely.
It's second rules text says spells can't be cast from graveyards.
Lands are played, not cast. Casting is the act of putting a spell with a cost on the stack, paying mana for that spell and have it resolve.
Lands don't use the stack when they're played or tapped for mana so grafdigger's cage doesn't care what you do with lands.
It'll hose a general like Muldrotha the Gravetide because although they can still play a land, they can't play permanent spells.
Anything with the flashback mechanic is rendered useless when in the graveyard.
If you can get a decent Butcher draw engine going then distortion works well because you can keep those pseudo counterspells coming. It's circumstantial but its a hard stop. defense grid just forces the counter player to keep far more mana open and makes their counters much less viable if they want to establish their board. A talrand, sky summoner however will work through the mana cost and still counter your spells because they want those drakes!
Do you play with sideboards?
Because all these cards can be sideboarded for when you play these specific archetypes. Yeah, you might not see them coming game one but you cam swit H them in for game 2
I like the enchantment removal on the thrashing brontodon but hammer mage in a much more efficient torpor orb destroyer. If there was something repeatable that hit both artifact and enchantments on a body I'd be so happy!
Muldrotha, the Gravetide?
I've ear marked the two recruiters but I really don't want to have to run a 5 colour deck to make it work specifically because of the land base I'd need to get hold of.
Red's in there for a few things, mainly the chaos colour and randomness of it, but yeah, possibility storm is a real factor.
I worry that if I run Lavinia as the general it'll just end up another WU control deck which is what I'm looking to avoid. I'm not a control player and I find grinding the game to a shuddering halt really annoying. I thought by adding red into the mix I can keep it a bit fresher.
Im not saying there's anything wrong with playing control/stax, it's just not something I want to sit down at the table with unless it has some seriously heavy follow through into a win!
I'm looking to run Ruhan of the Fomori as the general for theme and colours but underneath what I'm really running is a Lavinia, Azorius Renegade build that has access to red in order to use her ability to create completely one sided effects to control the board.
I'm not looking to create an annoying Grand Arbiter Augustin IV type of control deck. I hate that kind of control being played against me so need a slightly different way so settled on the idea of a chaos control build rather than all out control.
The Dream:
After creating the perfect deck list I'd like to create an almost group hug style draw using cards like dictate of kruphix and howling mine while Ruhan goes to town and creates a diversion
Then I hope to get Lavinia out and looking somewhat inoccuous in amongst other little hatebears like thalia, heretic cathar.
After that I'm looking to follow up with some kind of chaos enchantment like possibility storm or knowledge pool.
After that, a cheeky profaner of the dead saccing Ruhan and that should be game.
So.... Any thoughts on what cards might be good in a deck like this or perhaps some slightly inoffensive control cards that might work with what I'm trying to do?
Edit: I'm not looking to warp world or scrambleverse!
Arcades, the strategist is great for durdling about while you build a board. The deck's main strength is that as you build a board you're actively defending yourself from incoming attacks because of the huge defender creatures.
The good thing about all the defenders is that you can play a huge number of one sided board wipes before a huge attack like slaughter the strong.
The downside its in the same colours as Estrid and I'm the kind of player who won't have two decks of the same colour combination.
Maybe check out @benjameenbear's Arcades Wall Ball Combo deck. Not sure how durdley his specific build is but as its his, it's sure to be strong.
Also, if you have a look under his main decklist there's a budget version too if you want to look at a cheaper version of the build.
The fauna shaman, mwonvuli beast tracker and fierce empath always go for soul of the harvest to get the draw engine up and running. Having an extra flier couldn't hurt though.
I'm doing my best to steer away from paid activated abilities like hellkite charger's. It's a great card but I wanna try and pay all mana into making the board bigger for huge attack phases. If half my mana is constantly being poured into abilities it will half the amount I can use on casting more stompers.
That being said, wickerbough elder and caustic caterpiller might be a good shout to take out problem enchantments and artifacts.
I've seen propaganda and torpor orb played together. Because of the massive amount of mana the deck can make it meant I could play through it and just set full focus on that player until I knocked them out and torpor orb was no longer a problem.
I suppose it would be sensible to run a few activated removals.
Took out Runic Armasuar who is a lot better in theory than in practice.
I tested knollspine dragon and I don't think it's for me. The current draw creatures do a pretty good job of keeping my hand stocked and in some cases I was overdrawing and discarding a lot of stuff at end of turn. There was never really a good time to drop it.
It's out now and it's unlikely to ever go back in at this point.
I'm actually going to test chaos wand that @SirSimic gave feedback on. My meta is rife with top deck tutors and decent green ramp spells that are asking to put wastes onto the field.
I don't usually go for card that yield unknown results but if the result is a player not getting to draw that bitter ordeal they went for with mystical tutor then it's definitely worth a punt. Don't know how I feel about holding 4 open though
Main decklist changed.
Blinkmoth Urn out, Kozilek, the Great Distortion in.
Details in Changelog and card selection.
No updates from Guild of Ravnica (No new toys, BOOOO).
Hopefully Modern Horizons will bring bombs!
If you sideboard a ton of threats and it gets taken out, you then have a sideboard full of useless.
But, on the same note as before at least you haven't just got bombs in your hand that don't pose as sufficient counters for Kozi2.0.
If you're playing a Timmy deck full of Craterhoof Behemoths and the like they might just work but more than likely you're going to be up against synergy builds who's curves are lower to the ground.
It serves you better to be sitting in the 1,2,3 drops to act as counters.
Play Butcher!!!!
I tested Void Winnower and ran it in the deck for a few months after its release but I found it to just cause the table to have laser focus on my field and it generated far more hate than I was willing to deal with.
The problem with running that many high cost cards in your deck is that what're the chances of an opponent playing a 9 drop for you to pitch it to the Great Distortion? It doesn't pose that double use for you.
Blightsteel is another dude I pulled ages ago. He's a good substitute for Kozi with how oppressive it is and I used to run it with a janky infinite combo with Mirrorworks but I took out the infect monster. I can't remember my reasoning other than maybe taking it out for something more reactive or that offered filtering.
I think giant adephage is a bit tokeny for my build. Its a solid card for nikya and a great strategy but because I already have four other decks which are token oriented (locust god, mazirek, najeela and elenda) I'm trying to steer away from it where I can.
I love gigantomancer but as an 8 drop its hard to play and justify. In this deck I see it as a 4 drop which is much easier to think about!
Are you thinking Vexing shusher as a political play to make some alliances? If that's not the plan prowling serpopard does a much more cost effective job.
knollspine dragon made the shortlist but I was worried I might deck myself lol. Last time I played I swung for about 500 damage: craterhoof behemoth entered, then copied with Kiki-jiki, mirror breaker, then swung everything in with a pathbreaker ibex with a siege behemoth also attacking! It was quite funny!
Bramble sovereign is amazing. One of my first EDH decks was a Riku of two reflections back when prophet of kruphix was legal.
As soo as I get my hands on one it'll go into the deck.
Thanks for the suggestions
I know it's not that great but it can help when dropping in small creatures with gruul ragebeast on the field, it helps when blocking and it can just tip up the damage output of the smaller creatures.
I know this shouldn't factor but it was the first rare card I owned so there's a soft spot for it as well and I've been looking for an excuse to run it!
back to basics is a painful one to see across the table. I'd rather see a blood moon!
Because we don't have access to very many removal spells that can deal with it.
Make sure that player is punished for it next game (which I think a T2 Kozi would have easily done).
I find a lot of games end in a scoop win if I play Kozilek early enough.
Stax can be tough if you don't have an explosive start. If you do, Kill the stax player!
So grafdigger's cage prevents creatures entering the battlefield from libraries and graveyards.
That means you can use planar bridge but you can't go and get a creature which usually isn't a big deal.
Reanimator stretegies or cards that stock the graveyard also hate this card. Generals likegrenzo, dungeon warden use the graveyard then ping to the battlefield but the cage stops that completely.
It's second rules text says spells can't be cast from graveyards.
Lands are played, not cast. Casting is the act of putting a spell with a cost on the stack, paying mana for that spell and have it resolve.
Lands don't use the stack when they're played or tapped for mana so grafdigger's cage doesn't care what you do with lands.
It'll hose a general like Muldrotha the Gravetide because although they can still play a land, they can't play permanent spells.
Anything with the flashback mechanic is rendered useless when in the graveyard.
If you can get a decent Butcher draw engine going then distortion works well because you can keep those pseudo counterspells coming. It's circumstantial but its a hard stop.
defense grid just forces the counter player to keep far more mana open and makes their counters much less viable if they want to establish their board. A talrand, sky summoner however will work through the mana cost and still counter your spells because they want those drakes!
Do you play with sideboards?
Because all these cards can be sideboarded for when you play these specific archetypes. Yeah, you might not see them coming game one but you cam swit H them in for game 2