It got me thinking that would it be fun to build a black version that replaces Smothering Tithe with Revel in Riches and then you would use Damnation to create those treasures and use the treatures to mill opponents... but then I realized that you would just win the game with Revel in Riches in the first place
I'd also rather run a few Fabricates to fetch your scrolls rather than turning to random manifestation cards like Whisperwood Elemental. Fabricate can also help ya fetch up those Phyrexian Dreadnoughts that you should definitely be running.
That does sound like a powerful deck! But its not going to be this deck. Here plan will be combining manifest and morph in weird way. However I do like you suggestion of Fabricate.
1. Whisperwood Elemental is solid if you can find room for him. Not needed by any means though.
2. More turn 1 ramp spells and Mastery of The Unseen. All of your good hands with have a turn 1 Elf and ideally a turn 2 Scroll but since the deck only has 4 of them you want to mull for those as opposed to the Elves.
3. Selesnya Sanctuary, Myriad Landscape, Castle Vantress and Gavony Township are all decent.
4. Mastery of The Unseen is fantastic in these shells and isn't hard to splash.
5. Too fair. It plays Magic but I wouldn't expect it to win many games.
6. No; don't bother with Crystal Shard. There's better things to be doing in these shells.
7. Mastery of The Unseen is all the healing that you'll ever need.
8. Ixidron
Ill add more mana elves, bend the willbenders into Stratus Dancers and try to include Mastery of The Unseen. Seaside Citadels and willbending mana elves into Avacyn's Manaboys should help cast the Mastery.
Think about this rhetorical rules question: You have a manifested face down Hooded Hydra on the battlefield. How much mana does it take to turn it face up?
Well it has morph 3GG so that much right? Yes, but no. Of course you could pay that 5 mana, but since the card is manifested you can also use the mana cost (GG in this case) to turn it face up and get all the usual benefits too! That also works with Voidmage Apprentice or even Kheru Spellsnatcher.
Since I was reminded of existence of Scroll of Fatein another thread I want to make a deck around the idea of manifesting morph cards and flipping them with discount cost.
Biggest star of the deck will most likely be Vesuvan Shapeshifter. They can do whatever they want, whenever they want. In this deck they sometimes want to make pickles with Brine Elemental and lock all opponents out of their upkeeps (Shapeshifters can morph into Brine, causing upkeeps to be skipped, and then at upkeep turn back into 2/2 and do it again.) Generally speaking they often want to repeat the best flip effect every turn. Maybe its Kheru Spellsnatcher to steal opponents spell for 2 mana or maybe its just Hooded Hydra to grow the shapeshifters a bit or possibly morph into Fathom Seer to draw cards.
Another engine that will be in the deck is Deathmist Raptor + Den Protector. Well I guess since its a dedicated morph/manifest deck the "engine" is going to be just Deathmist Raptor and Den Protector will just provide extra value. It might be a stretch to call it an engine, its more like constantly returning 3/3 deathtouch creature. Perhaps more enginelike part of the deck would be Secret Plans. I hope it will be good in the deck, if not I wont hesitate to change it into that one 3 mana spell that scales nicely into multiplayer and draws cards.
One of the big worries with these morph decks generally is lack of mana. Casting for 3 and then flipping with mana is quite intensive for what it does. I hope that by being able to manifest for free and morph with cheaper cost I can overcome that problem. Still I feel like I should have 4x mana elves in the deck to help with the mana situation.
There are however quite a lot of questions in my mind about the deck. And YOU can help me to answer those:
Should I have other manifest enablers than Scroll of Fate? For example Whisperwood Elemental?
Am I missing some obvious cards to include?
Are there any relevant superlands to include?
Should I rather try to use other colors with this idea? For example include white for Mastery of The Unseen
What do you think about the initial decklist?
Should I something like Crystal Shard to recall my dudes?
T1: Mana elf
T2: Scroll of Fate -> manifest a Deathmist Raptor, trade the morph with an attacker.
T3: Manifest Ainok Survivalist and blow up enemy artifact. Revive Raptor in the process.
TX: Keep manifesting creatures every turn and confuse opponents with their morph abilities, while constantly gaining value from Raptors, Secret Plans and stolen spells. Lock opponents out of the game with Brine elemental and Vesuvan SS.
And a bad game?
T1: Land tapped
T2: 2 mana dork, maybe trade in with attacker.
T3: Morph.
TX: Constantly lacking mana to effectively use morph abilities, lacking powerful cards that actually win games and just play 2/2 creatures that cannot win against anything. No ability to wipe boards. Always draw Willbender when Stratus Dancer was needed. Cannot regenerate from small damages taken.
Ill look what cards from Theros I end up owning and make a deck based on that. There is also the option of including enchantment creatures, artifacks or artifact creatures. If I order some cards Ill make sure to remember Hall of Heliod's Generosity.
I haven't thought too much about it yet, but with this new Theros I want to create a Dance of the Manse enchantment deck. I am not 100% sure what cards from the new set it will include but I am thinking:
I dont really have any plan, well the plan is that I have spotted these cool cards and I want to play them in some deck and I am looking for ideas how they should&could be played. Maybe the deck would be entirely build around the effect and just make tokens like bleedin_eyeball's deck or maybe it would just be some R/X deck with Young Pyromancer in as a general dork and including ~16 spells that can trigger them just to bring some extra value or defensive assets.
Really just looking for other players experiences and trying to mine ideas and data out of them.
I have always thought that Young Pyromancer is really hot and I have wanted to play them. There are also other variants such as Monastery Mentor and Saheeli, Sublime Artificer. But I have never build a deck around the effects, or even seen such deck being used in multiplayer. Well I guess I kinda have used Sai, Master Thopterist in an artifact deck, but I feel that that is a bit different, since you are playing permanent artifacts as opposed to instants or sorceries.
Questions:
Have you played with any of these cards in multiplayer?
How did you do?
Can you share a decklist?
Have you played against these cards in multiplayer?
How did they do?
Can you tell what their deck was?
Are you planning to use any of these cards in multiplayer?
Why/why not?
What do you think about these cards generally in multiplayer?
Feel free to share your experiences about the cards in general too, the questions are just there to promote discussion.
What I like about his combo, is that it is very cheap dollar wise to get. I mean just the Kirins and Conjurants. As long as you have the other cards to support it already, there is nothing preventing you from spending like 0-5$ to get the cards and even if you just surprise your friends once with that combo and win the game its going to be worth it. However, with the soul sisters variant simply running good old armageddon would be more effective.
Seems pretty sweet. I have been thinking to make a deck based on the Oketra's Monument for some time and now that God-Eternal Oketra is a thing it could be even better. I feel that the list you have posted is pretty solid, but from the flex list I feel like I would always want Enlightened Tutors.
Also since its a combo-ish deck I feel like that landbase could be a bit annoying and prevent assembling the factory by turn 4, without bringing enough value. I run the same lands in some all mono-white decks, and while its powerful, it also becomes a burden if friends are playing aggressive.
What kind of success you have had with the deck in practice?
Here are some of my ideas:
I guess the rebel idea is the best out of these.
It got me thinking that would it be fun to build a black version that replaces Smothering Tithe with Revel in Riches and then you would use Damnation to create those treasures and use the treatures to mill opponents... but then I realized that you would just win the game with Revel in Riches in the first place
That does sound like a powerful deck! But its not going to be this deck. Here plan will be combining manifest and morph in weird way. However I do like you suggestion of Fabricate.
Ill add more mana elves, bend the willbenders into Stratus Dancers and try to include Mastery of The Unseen. Seaside Citadels and willbending mana elves into Avacyn's Manaboys should help cast the Mastery.
Think about this rhetorical rules question: You have a manifested face down Hooded Hydra on the battlefield. How much mana does it take to turn it face up?
Well it has morph 3GG so that much right? Yes, but no. Of course you could pay that 5 mana, but since the card is manifested you can also use the mana cost (GG in this case) to turn it face up and get all the usual benefits too! That also works with Voidmage Apprentice or even Kheru Spellsnatcher.
Since I was reminded of existence of Scroll of Fate in another thread I want to make a deck around the idea of manifesting morph cards and flipping them with discount cost.
Biggest star of the deck will most likely be Vesuvan Shapeshifter. They can do whatever they want, whenever they want. In this deck they sometimes want to make pickles with Brine Elemental and lock all opponents out of their upkeeps (Shapeshifters can morph into Brine, causing upkeeps to be skipped, and then at upkeep turn back into 2/2 and do it again.) Generally speaking they often want to repeat the best flip effect every turn. Maybe its Kheru Spellsnatcher to steal opponents spell for 2 mana or maybe its just Hooded Hydra to grow the shapeshifters a bit or possibly morph into Fathom Seer to draw cards.
Another engine that will be in the deck is Deathmist Raptor + Den Protector. Well I guess since its a dedicated morph/manifest deck the "engine" is going to be just Deathmist Raptor and Den Protector will just provide extra value. It might be a stretch to call it an engine, its more like constantly returning 3/3 deathtouch creature. Perhaps more enginelike part of the deck would be Secret Plans. I hope it will be good in the deck, if not I wont hesitate to change it into that one 3 mana spell that scales nicely into multiplayer and draws cards.
Also the deck is going to include some trick effects like Stratus Dancer, Willbender, Thousand Winds, Ainok Survivalist and Gift of Doom. I once reflected chandra nalaars ultimate back to my opponent with Willbender and really like doing that kind of nasty moves with it : D
One of the big worries with these morph decks generally is lack of mana. Casting for 3 and then flipping with mana is quite intensive for what it does. I hope that by being able to manifest for free and morph with cheaper cost I can overcome that problem. Still I feel like I should have 4x mana elves in the deck to help with the mana situation.
There are however quite a lot of questions in my mind about the deck. And YOU can help me to answer those:
Initial decklist:
8 Island
4 Yavimaya Coast
4 Thornwood Falls
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Den Protector
2 Fathom Seer
2 Stratus Dancer
2 Willbender
2 Ainok Survivalist
4 Deathmist Raptor
4 Vesuvan Shapeshifter
1 Hooded Hydra
1 Kheru Spellsnatcher
2 Brine Elemental
4 Scroll of Fate
2 Gift of Doom
List of potential cards I feel like I should have in, but cant really get in:
How would a good game with this deck go?
T1: Mana elf
T2: Scroll of Fate -> manifest a Deathmist Raptor, trade the morph with an attacker.
T3: Manifest Ainok Survivalist and blow up enemy artifact. Revive Raptor in the process.
TX: Keep manifesting creatures every turn and confuse opponents with their morph abilities, while constantly gaining value from Raptors, Secret Plans and stolen spells. Lock opponents out of the game with Brine elemental and Vesuvan SS.
And a bad game?
T1: Land tapped
T2: 2 mana dork, maybe trade in with attacker.
T3: Morph.
TX: Constantly lacking mana to effectively use morph abilities, lacking powerful cards that actually win games and just play 2/2 creatures that cannot win against anything. No ability to wipe boards. Always draw Willbender when Stratus Dancer was needed. Cannot regenerate from small damages taken.
Yes, something very much like that. Cards that I already have for it that are most likely going in are:
Ill look what cards from Theros I end up owning and make a deck based on that. There is also the option of including enchantment creatures, artifacks or artifact creatures. If I order some cards Ill make sure to remember Hall of Heliod's Generosity.
Other cards I am interested in:
Here are some plans that I have:
UB ninjas, featuring:
Dreadhorde Invasion
Gleaming Overseer
Widespread Brutality
Enter the God-Eternals
They are nothing special, but sometimes I get really huge army that deals 10 damage to each non-army creature and attacks with lifelink.
Teyo, the Shieldmage
The Wanderer
I have used these walkers in mono white control I also use Urza's Ruinous Blast there. The deck has never won, but has potential.
Chandra, Fire Artisan I used it to replace a similar enchantment in monored deck. Feels pretty good.
Finale of Revelation Used to replace similar card, never fired it with x=10+ yet.
Really just looking for other players experiences and trying to mine ideas and data out of them.
I have always thought that Young Pyromancer is really hot and I have wanted to play them. There are also other variants such as Monastery Mentor and Saheeli, Sublime Artificer. But I have never build a deck around the effects, or even seen such deck being used in multiplayer. Well I guess I kinda have used Sai, Master Thopterist in an artifact deck, but I feel that that is a bit different, since you are playing permanent artifacts as opposed to instants or sorceries.
Questions:
Feel free to share your experiences about the cards in general too, the questions are just there to promote discussion.
Also since its a combo-ish deck I feel like that landbase could be a bit annoying and prevent assembling the factory by turn 4, without bringing enough value. I run the same lands in
someall mono-white decks, and while its powerful, it also becomes a burden if friends are playing aggressive.What kind of success you have had with the deck in practice?