Do you know what getting rid of Core Set means? It means that every set's associated precons are Commander. I hate that. Can't they just release 2 Commander Decks and 2 Planeswalker Decks? Y'know, give new players the choice?
We used to have 24 preconstructed decks that you could buy for under $25 after taxes. You have the 20 Intro Packs and the 4 duel decks, well 2 sets of 2 duel decks. All we have in 2021 are the 2 Arena Starter Kit decks, and the next cheapest option would be the $30 challenger decks.
We also don't know how much the Innistrad midnight Hunt commander decks will cost, but a store is selling it for $85 on preorder.
Cardfight Vanguard has $5 Start Decks. They aren't half decks or decks where you have to do something to make a complete deck. They are full 50 card decks. There are also 5 to choose from. That's cheap, and you get some choices. In 2021, Yugioh has 4 choices of under $15 precon decks and Pokemon has 6 choices. MTG only has 2, well you buy the thing and you get both in the form of the Arena Starter Kit. Anything else is higher than $20.
Because Commander is so popular, WOTC has no incentive to make Standard good anymore. Just keep on selling $50 commander decks, and keep releasing standard sets that people will buy without even thinking about the health of the format.
If I made a game, and someone else took my game, changed the rules a bit, and now everybody else is playing my game by the new rules, while I am desperately trying to get new players to play by my rules, I'd give up, and get people to play by the new rules, because that is where the money is.
There are deck construction rules, like 60-card, 100 card singleton, 40 card limited, and the gameplay rules, like your base rules, Commander, Vanguard, Archenemy, and Planechase. I've said this before. WOTC is over supporting Commander because they lack the confidence to make the base rules better than Commander. They aren't trying anymore.
You want reprints? Try our $10 a pack masters sets.
I'm pretty sure I already read this rant with the almost exact same words somewhere else multiple times. If you're so much upset of how the game is today, maybe is better for you to not play it at all anymore and let the other people enjoy it.
Let me guess, you are ok with WOTC charging double price for a product targeted for new players compared to their competitors, and you are ok with WOTC pandering to one format at the detriment of another. As long as their introductory products, that cost $30 to $50 caters towards bringing in more Commander players, that means that those players won't even try to even play any format that use the base rules, either because the cards are expensive, or they lose all the time. With that in mind, why would WOTC even try to give the effort in making Standard better? With the crappy standard, people would just quit standard and go to Commander, and thus WOTC would support Commander even more, and thus put even less effort into Standard, or any other base rules format, and those players would flock to commander, and thus WOTC supports Commander even more, and thus puts even less effort into standard...
But let's say we live in a scenario where Standard is completely dead. It's all Commander. Remember how the Zendikar Rising and Kaldheim Commander decks costed $25 each? The idea of $25 Commander decks are long gone. I predict that every future Commander deck will be the $50 variety. And they say that these are supposed to replace the Planeswalker decks? Do you know what should have replaced Planeswalker Decks? Almost something that cost just as much as them. Theme boosters are utter trash. I wish they just brought back Theme Decks.
WOTC is thinking about money. Short term gain for long term pain.
You know how we all laugh at those who are saying that Magic is dying? Well in a way it is dying. People would rather play by its alternate rules than its base rules.
From what I read, Pioneer is a dead format, and thus the Pioneer decks will most likely be a one year occurrence. I just hope there are 60-card preconstructed products to replace them, and if they replace them with yet another set of Commander decks, expect another rant.
In my opinion pioneer is dying due to two reasons, the rona and historic. I think a lot of people like myself started around return to ravnica days and have physical collections that they can’t really play with. My lgs hasn’t returned to paper magic and last I was there was using the play area as storage. (It’s still doing very well cuz it also is a comic book store). Historic on arena is a lot easier to get into in my opinion than pioneer would be on mtgo. I think they’re are focusing on commander for two reasons. You can still play commander with family and friends even if you can’t go to an lgs. The other is fairly obvious $$$. I do agree with the idea that they should have digital redemption codes in all of their products.
Yeah, well, I used to play the 60-card base rules style of game at home, so it isn't like just because you are a casual player, you just have to play Commander. If the Pioneer challenger decks are a one year thing, I hope there are some other 60-card base rules precon products to replace it.
What about the arena starter kits? Do you think WOTC will continue to make them?
In 2020, we had 13 60-card preconstructed decks and 9 Commander decks.
In 2021, we are projected to have 10 60-card preconstructed decks and 15 commander decks.
In 2022, we are projected to have 6 60-card preconstructed decks and 13 commander decks.
In the fall of 2022, what would be a great preconstructed 60-card product, that plays by the base rules, that WOTC could release in case the Pioneer challenger decks don't pan out? 6 decks in 2022 isn't enough. I'd like each year to have 10 60-card precons. Either 3 releases with 4 Challenger decks, 2 deck Arena Starter Kit and 4 decks of something, or 2 releases of 5 decks each, so 5 challenger decks in April and 5 other decks in October.
I'd like WOTC to introduce a product to mirror Yugioh's $10 structure decks, and Pokemon's $15 V Battle Decks. The Challenger decks is kind of like Pokemon's $30 League Battle Decks.
New Capenna seems like it would be the main Commander release with 5 decks, but I have said it many times. I would like to see a set of 2 60-card decks with MTG Arena codes in them, like the Arena Starter Kit released alongside the remaining 3 sets to go along with the 2 Commander decks. I assume the D&D set with its 4 Commander decks is the outlier and that from now on, ever Winter, Summer, and Fall set will have 2 Commander decks.
I would like to see Core Sets return and release in the Spring alongside the main Commander release while having the Standard rotation in August. The Core sets should not be advertised as the newbie set, but as a reprint set and as a means to keep some cards in standard longer by reprinting them. That release would have the 20xx core set, 5 20xx commander decks (not 20xx core set commander decks), and the 4 20xx Challenger decks. No Arena Starter kits released along side this set. All the other 3 sets would have 2 Commander decks and 2 casual 60-card decks with MTG Arena codes, that focuses on the set's mechanics, because Commander is a poor tool to teach players about the mechanics of the set. Unless the Coven Counters commander deck is filled with Coven cards, then that deck won't teach any player about Coven. The mechanically based decks would be the 60-card decks while things like tribal or non-set specific mechanic strategies would be the Commander decks. Something where you can fill the entire deck with that strategy, as you don't have to draw from the one set that uses the mechanic. I would also like to see MTG Arena have a format where only the 60-card decks I mentioned before, the ones that would come with 3 of the standard sets, are legal. Pokemon had the theme deck format, and I would like to see that in MTG Arena.
If my idea holds true, there will be 13 Commander decks (I am adding 2 Commander decks for the Universes beyond, or maybe a non-standard set might come with Commander), and 10 60-card precons. This idea is only a means to get the number of 60-card preconstructed decks to 10 for each year, in case the Pioneer Challenger decks aren't annual and only happen for 2021. I hope that in 2022, there are 10 60-card base rules preconstructed deck options.
Do you know what getting rid of Core Set means? It means that every set's associated precons are Commander. I hate that. Can't they just release 2 Commander Decks and 2 Planeswalker Decks? Y'know, give new players the choice?
We used to have 24 preconstructed decks that you could buy for under $25 after taxes. You have the 20 Intro Packs and the 4 duel decks, well 2 sets of 2 duel decks. All we have in 2021 are the 2 Arena Starter Kit decks, and the next cheapest option would be the $30 challenger decks.
We also don't know how much the Innistrad midnight Hunt commander decks will cost, but a store is selling it for $85 on preorder.
Cardfight Vanguard has $5 Start Decks. They aren't half decks or decks where you have to do something to make a complete deck. They are full 50 card decks. There are also 5 to choose from. That's cheap, and you get some choices. In 2021, Yugioh has 4 choices of under $15 precon decks and Pokemon has 6 choices. MTG only has 2, well you buy the thing and you get both in the form of the Arena Starter Kit. Anything else is higher than $20.
Because Commander is so popular, WOTC has no incentive to make Standard good anymore. Just keep on selling $50 commander decks, and keep releasing standard sets that people will buy without even thinking about the health of the format.
If I made a game, and someone else took my game, changed the rules a bit, and now everybody else is playing my game by the new rules, while I am desperately trying to get new players to play by my rules, I'd give up, and get people to play by the new rules, because that is where the money is.
There are deck construction rules, like 60-card, 100 card singleton, 40 card limited, and the gameplay rules, like your base rules, Commander, Vanguard, Archenemy, and Planechase. I've said this before. WOTC is over supporting Commander because they lack the confidence to make the base rules better than Commander. They aren't trying anymore.
You want reprints? Try our $10 a pack masters sets.
I'm pretty sure I already read this rant with the almost exact same words somewhere else multiple times. If you're so much upset of how the game is today, maybe is better for you to not play it at all anymore and let the other people enjoy it.
Let me guess, you are ok with WOTC charging double price for a product targeted for new players compared to their competitors, and you are ok with WOTC pandering to one format at the detriment of another. As long as their introductory products, that cost $30 to $50 caters towards bringing in more Commander players, that means that those players won't even try to even play any format that use the base rules, either because the cards are expensive, or they lose all the time. With that in mind, why would WOTC even try to give the effort in making Standard better? With the crappy standard, people would just quit standard and go to Commander, and thus WOTC would support Commander even more, and thus put even less effort into Standard, or any other base rules format, and those players would flock to commander, and thus WOTC supports Commander even more, and thus puts even less effort into standard...
But let's say we live in a scenario where Standard is completely dead. It's all Commander. Remember how the Zendikar Rising and Kaldheim Commander decks costed $25 each? The idea of $25 Commander decks are long gone. I predict that every future Commander deck will be the $50 variety. And they say that these are supposed to replace the Planeswalker decks? Do you know what should have replaced Planeswalker Decks? Almost something that cost just as much as them. Theme boosters are utter trash. I wish they just brought back Theme Decks.
WOTC is thinking about money. Short term gain for long term pain.
You know how we all laugh at those who are saying that Magic is dying? Well in a way it is dying. People would rather play by its alternate rules than its base rules.
From what I read, Pioneer is a dead format, and thus the Pioneer decks will most likely be a one year occurrence. I just hope there are 60-card preconstructed products to replace them, and if they replace them with yet another set of Commander decks, expect another rant.
Modern Event Decks were a one year thing. Brawl decks were a one year thing. Do you think the Pioneer Challenger decks are going to be a one year thing, or is it going to be an annual thing? If the Pioneer Challenger decks flop, I really hope, because they got rid of the core set, and thus the Planeswalker Decks that go with it, that they have some sort of 60-card preconstructed product released in the fall. I don't want to be limited to just the 4 Challenger Decks and the Arena Starter kit.
I already complained enough about how the D&D set did not have Planeswalker Decks, and how every set from now on will feature Commander Decks, and that my options for 60-card precons have become more limited than before, so I hope that if the Pioneer Challenger Decks fail, there are replacement 60-card deck product line for them. I will complain even more if WOTC introduces yet even more Commander Deck options in lieu of the 60-card variety. In 2021, there are 10 60-card precons and 15 commander decks.
Ideally, I would like to see 60-card precons be brought back as the set associated precons, but only for the sets that have 2 Commander deck choices. These decks would replace the Arena Starter Kit, well not replace, but the Arena Starter Kit won't be one package containing 2 decks but 2 separate deck choices released with each set. So each year would have one set containing the 5 annual major Commander deck release, and the other 3 sets would contain the 2 Commander deck and the 2 60-card precons that contains code cards that can bring the deck into MTG Arena. It's not really adding anything. It is just replacing what would have been the Pionner Challenger Decks, if it fails, and the Arena Starter Kit. There would still be 10 60-card deck options.
Do you know what getting rid of Core Set means? It means that every set's associated precons are Commander. I hate that. Can't they just release 2 Commander Decks and 2 Planeswalker Decks? Y'know, give new players the choice?
We used to have 24 preconstructed decks that you could buy for under $25 after taxes. You have the 20 Intro Packs and the 4 duel decks, well 2 sets of 2 duel decks. All we have in 2021 are the 2 Arena Starter Kit decks, and the next cheapest option would be the $30 challenger decks.
We also don't know how much the Innistrad midnight Hunt commander decks will cost, but a store is selling it for $85 on preorder.
Cardfight Vanguard has $5 Start Decks. They aren't half decks or decks where you have to do something to make a complete deck. They are full 50 card decks. There are also 5 to choose from. That's cheap, and you get some choices. In 2021, Yugioh has 4 choices of under $15 precon decks and Pokemon has 6 choices. MTG only has 2, well you buy the thing and you get both in the form of the Arena Starter Kit. Anything else is higher than $20.
Because Commander is so popular, WOTC has no incentive to make Standard good anymore. Just keep on selling $50 commander decks, and keep releasing standard sets that people will buy without even thinking about the health of the format.
If I made a game, and someone else took my game, changed the rules a bit, and now everybody else is playing my game by the new rules, while I am desperately trying to get new players to play by my rules, I'd give up, and get people to play by the new rules, because that is where the money is.
There are deck construction rules, like 60-card, 100 card singleton, 40 card limited, and the gameplay rules, like your base rules, Commander, Vanguard, Archenemy, and Planechase. I've said this before. WOTC is over supporting Commander because they lack the confidence to make the base rules better than Commander. They aren't trying anymore.
You want reprints? Try our $10 a pack masters sets.
Don't you find it funny how every storyline for the spring set always revolves around 5 of something based on color, and each of those somethings have to be color balanced with the other 4 because the Spring set happens to have the major annual Commander deck release? Before the major annual Commander deck release being tied to the Spring set, the sets weren't color based because there were no Commander Decks to be made for them. The story of those sets weren't based on color identity, and now, with Ikoria, Strixhaven, and Capenna, it is all about color identity.
Do you think Ikoria and Strixhaven are "specific color combinations matter" sets? Even if gameplaywise, color does not matter, the story still revolves around 5 of something based on color, because of Commander.
What I'm saying is, the storyline of those sets isn't influencing the Commander decks. Commander is influencing the story of the set.
It has been done where Commander didn't influence the story of the set, and that set is the D&D set.
They do 5 faction sets pretty commonly, so it could be a coincidence or they could have simply shifted the 5 faction sets to match the commander products.
I was wondering if Commander had any influence as to how the story is told for the Spring sets. Sure, every set has 5 factions, but some aren't as big of a deal as others, while Ikoria, Strixhaven, and most like Capenna, the 5 factions are a big deal. For Ikoria and Strixhaven, rather than something are these colors, like Werewolves are Red Green, it is Red White is Lorehold. Color combination is a certain faction because of the Commander influence in these sets.
I predict that, as long as the major Commander set release is tied to the Spring set, every spring set will have a storyline involving "these colors are a specific faction".
Don't you find it funny how every storyline for the spring set always revolves around 5 of something based on color, and each of those somethings have to be color balanced with the other 4 because the Spring set happens to have the major annual Commander deck release? Before the major annual Commander deck release being tied to the Spring set, the sets weren't color based because there were no Commander Decks to be made for them. The story of those sets weren't based on color identity, and now, with Ikoria, Strixhaven, and Capenna, it is all about color identity.
Do you think Ikoria and Strixhaven are "specific color combinations matter" sets? Even if gameplaywise, color does not matter, the story still revolves around 5 of something based on color, because of Commander.
What I'm saying is, the storyline of those sets isn't influencing the Commander decks. Commander is influencing the story of the set.
It has been done where Commander didn't influence the story of the set, and that set is the D&D set.
So 60 card precons aimed at new players is dead. Who knows when we will ever get under $15 60 card precons focusing on themes and mechanics from the latest sets ever again.
I'm pretty sure it's just dead and there's no realistic way to produce and market it profitably. I can certainly understand your frustration, but 60 card casual precons has numerous problems. The normal 4 of rule pulls in multiple directions. It's extremely unfun for diversity UNLESS you have a unique, irreplacable effect the deck has to have to function. Other decks having multiples of more powerful cards make the precon garbage, though. You also can't print multiples of highly desirable cards for other formats because it either leads to scalping or destroys the secondary market value of the good cards. Pokemon also did the 60 card casual precon format online. You could play precon vs precon without the issue of having a very limited number of decks per set. People lost interest and the format was scrapped for the same issue competitive formats have. It led to people just playing the couple teir precons over and over again. What they can realistically do is commander precons and sets like jumpstart. Jumpstart has the kind of thing you're looking for. It has hundreds of potential 40 card precons per release, can make new cards without flooding the market, and you can even print desirable chase cards. Commander is an actual precon, can print format staples because people maintain a whole collection of decks, is automatically limited to `1 copy per card, and solves the unique, irreplacable card problem with its commander that you pretty much always have access to. The reason commander replaced you preferred precons isn't because wizards game sucks. It's because commander, by its very format design fixes all the problems with normal precons simply based on the way the format naturally works. If commander were invented in the beginning, 60 card casual precon never would have existed to begin with because it was flawed from the beginning and destined for failure. I've been playing for decades and every set, unless a 60 card precon gets scalped for parts, none of them ever sold like the low end of commander precons. It's just a naturally superior model to theme decks, intro decks, duel decks, clash packs, or box sets like game night or archenemy. Wizards tried a bunch of different things including precon league style play at game stores that no one was ever interested in at any store I ever went to. Sometimes you just have to face facts that exactly what you want is just not popular or profitable.
Nah man, I am going to fight it just like, back when Wolfenstein Enemy Territory was a thing, I am going to fight the fact that people there would rather use ETpub, No Quarter, or Jaymod instead of ETmain.
You try selling a $15 precon product and get people to buy it. How is it that every other trading card game have a under $15 preconstucted deck option, but MTG doesn't?
You get as much or more value from $15 worth of booster packs as you did from any given intro deck. They weren't products designed for 'beginners,' they were products designed to take advantage of people who don't know that a secondary market exists. There might be good reasons to defend the concept of a theme deck, but the way they were executed, in practice, completely undermines your position that they were Magic's only / necessary point of entry to the game.
The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. You're engaging in some rather fervent mental gymnastics to explain how catering to the commander crowd is evidence that Wizards have no faith in their own product, when the most obvious, logical explanation is exactly what they're telling us: commander is so popular that it's attracting new players who have no problem paying $20+ for a deck.
That's your choice, but why abandon those who have been loyal to the regular rules of the game? You'd rather pay a lot of money for one precon deck? Well some of us don't.
Continuing to use the arbitrary definition that you've made up isn't going to sway anyone that such a thing exists. All this seems to indicate is that you don't understand how long term value works.
I didn't make up the definition. You can't say that life starts at 20 and at 40. One is the regular rule, the other is the modified rules. I believe that Magic, how it was originally designed and evolved is the regular rules.
If you have played any old PC games yourself, you have heard of expansion packs, mods, or even source ports. What Brutal Doom is to Doom, Commander is to Magic. When I mention Regular Doom, most people would visualize Vanilla Doom. Commander is nothing more than a fan made mod to Magic. Sure, there are differences in rules between Magic in 1993 and the current rules. That's the same as the difference between Doom v1.0 and Doom v1.9.
You're just triggered because you like Commander, and by saying that Commander isn't the regular rules of the game, you don't feel "normal" and thus your feelings get hurt, while others would know what I mean when I say "regular rules".
Why is it that it takes some fan modifications to the game in order for people to not care if they win or lose? Has anybody even tried to build a deck that is better than intro packs, where the limit is 0 mythics, 2 rares, one of which must be a creature, 12 uncommons, 24 to 26 basic lands, the rest commons.
WOTC could easily make better 60 card precons for $15, but they don't do it. Intro packs only sucked, as if it was punishment because you didn't give WOTC enough money. It's as if they sold you crappy decks in hope for you to buy more product to improve or replace the deck. Then they see some people actually enjoying the crappy decks, and not spending any money on other products, and thus, they spit in our faces.
$15 precons suck, but that is true for any game. Ever win games against casual Pokemon TCG decks with a Theme Deck, or casual Yugioh decks with an unmodified Structure deck? At least those games gave you an option to spend $15 on a deck at the expense of the deck not being competitive or valuable. MTG no longer has that option.
"Why try to fight the fact that people want to play Commander". More like, "We give up, our game sucks. People rather play a game someone else made by changing a few of our rules".
They don't really gave up since all other formats, since exists and they still making products for other formats (like the upcoming Modern Horizon 2) and still making tournaments for said formats. Casual players just love the commander formats more than random pile of 60 cards decks and if beginners and casual players are happy with that, why, you, that are a veteran player that has no competitive interest in these pre-con, be upset about it?
If beginners are happy, then everybody is happy. It's a win-win. And I never heard no beginner ever said commander decks have a prohibitive price tag. Ou contraire, I just found people enthusiast to make their hands on the decks of this popular format everybody play.
You are not happy that new players start Magic with a commander pre-con because of price or anything else? Cool, but please keep in mind that you're pretty much a minority and your perception doesn't reflect at all how reality currently works.
So basically, WOTC don't know how to make 60 card, you know, the unmodified rules of the game, fun for casuals, meaning, they gave up.
I also never knew that Modern Horizons 2 are preconstructed decks.
Spending $50 precons and $10 booster packs is nothing to you it seems. I remember when I had little income, I could buy the $13 Intro Packs and enjoy the game that way. Now that's all gone.
I think Challenger Decks fill the role your looking for.
"Why try to fight the fact that people want to play Commander". More like, "We give up, our game sucks. People rather play a game someone else made by changing a few of our rules".
They don't really gave up since all other formats, since exists and they still making products for other formats (like the upcoming Modern Horizon 2) and still making tournaments for said formats. Casual players just love the commander formats more than random pile of 60 cards decks and if beginners and casual players are happy with that, why, you, that are a veteran player that has no competitive interest in these pre-con, be upset about it?
If beginners are happy, then everybody is happy. It's a win-win. And I never heard no beginner ever said commander decks have a prohibitive price tag. Ou contraire, I just found people enthusiast to make their hands on the decks of this popular format everybody play.
You are not happy that new players start Magic with a commander pre-con because of price or anything else? Cool, but please keep in mind that you're pretty much a minority and your perception doesn't reflect at all how reality currently works.
So basically, WOTC don't know how to make 60 card, you know, the unmodified rules of the game, fun for casuals, meaning, they gave up.
I also never knew that Modern Horizons 2 are preconstructed decks.
Spending $50 precons and $10 booster packs is nothing to you it seems. I remember when I had little income, I could buy the $13 Intro Packs and enjoy the game that way. Now that's all gone.
Pretty sure the $25 Commander Decks are pretty unplayable when matched up against any competitive Commander deck.
Sure, but at least Commander decks has like, a lot of demand and a lot of real players playing it and demanding it. More, much more, than "random 60 pile of filler cards". As I said -actually as WotC as a whole say and confirm-, Commander is the most played and popular format among casual players because today most casual players know Magic because they see the more enfranchised but most casualish players introduce them to commander as a friendly and social way to begin them in the game.
You try selling a $15 precon product and get people to buy it. How is it that every other trading card game have a under $15 preconstucted deck option, but MTG doesn't?
For me, no other trading card game has the same quality -in terms of arts, depths, design, lore, raw numbers of cards, strategies and archetypes, formats and variants and so on- of any other TCG I am aware of. Magic is the first trading card game of the entire history and all other TCG games are just bland copies and ripoff of the real thing. I would gladly pay 15 and even more dollars for such an excellent game.
That's your choice, but why abandon those who have been loyal to the regular rules of the game? You'd rather pay a lot of money for one precon deck? Well some of us don't.
I'll say this again. WOTC has zero confidence in promoting their own rules of the game, much so that they gave up and is now promoting the same game where a bunch of fans changed a bunch of rules and now everybody wants to play that instead of what Magic really is.
"Why try to fight the fact that people want to play Commander". More like, "We give up, our game sucks. People rather play a game someone else made by changing a few of our rules".
So 60 card precons aimed at new players is dead. Who knows when we will ever get under $15 60 card precons focusing on themes and mechanics from the latest sets ever again.
I don't understand who should really miss the low-powered decks for beginners. Who the beginners decks were aimed for in the first place?
If, like MaRo says, data proves that most of the new players learn Magic from other commander players anyway and they enjoy this format and their pre-con, I don't see how they could even miss a product they are not even aware of their existence.
All the rest of the enfranchised players of any format? They are obviously not interested in 60 cards pre-con decks filled with competitively unplayable stuff, since there's so much and better products available for them already.
I think this is just an irrational nostalgia thing by some old players for a non-existent issue.
You try selling a $15 precon product and get people to buy it. How is it that every other trading card game have a under $15 preconstucted deck option, but MTG doesn't?
I used to buy the set of 4 Theme Decks per set for $50. I guess because I find ways to enjoy the game by not spending a lot on a set of 4 decks means that WOTC don't care about people like me anymore. Why care about a person who spends $50 on 4 decks when there is a person who will pay $50 for one deck.
Intro Packs are unplayable, based on what? Competitiveness? Pretty sure the $25 Commander Decks are pretty unplayable when matched up against any competitive Commander deck. I'd like you to make a better deck where you are confined to no mythics, 2 rares, 12 uncommons, the rest commons, and the cards must be from one set, oh, and stores must not have any incentives to mark up the price either.
When Theme Decks became Intro Packs, the Theme Decks were made for 2 crowds. Those who knew how to play, but wanted to explore the set, and the other crowd is the new player. They wanted to focus on the new player aspect, and thus Intro Packs were born. Because Intro Packs focused on the New Player, the decks were simplistic and boring. If only there are a set of 4 set associated precons focusing on making fun decks that showcases the set. We used to have Intro Packs and Event Decks. Another time, well for one set, we had Planeswalker Decks and Brawl Decks. We had a cheap precon option, and a more expensive one. Why can't every single set have a set of 4 or 5 $15 60 card precons, and a set of 2 $25 Commander precons? I find it hard to justify $15 Commander decks, which is why I went with the 60 card option. It also gives new players the choice.
So 60 card precons aimed at new players is dead. Who knows when we will ever get under $15 60 card precons focusing on themes and mechanics from the latest sets ever again.
Yeah, well, I used to play the 60-card base rules style of game at home, so it isn't like just because you are a casual player, you just have to play Commander. If the Pioneer challenger decks are a one year thing, I hope there are some other 60-card base rules precon products to replace it.
What about the arena starter kits? Do you think WOTC will continue to make them?
In 2020, we had 13 60-card preconstructed decks and 9 Commander decks.
In 2021, we are projected to have 10 60-card preconstructed decks and 15 commander decks.
In 2022, we are projected to have 6 60-card preconstructed decks and 13 commander decks.
In the fall of 2022, what would be a great preconstructed 60-card product, that plays by the base rules, that WOTC could release in case the Pioneer challenger decks don't pan out? 6 decks in 2022 isn't enough. I'd like each year to have 10 60-card precons. Either 3 releases with 4 Challenger decks, 2 deck Arena Starter Kit and 4 decks of something, or 2 releases of 5 decks each, so 5 challenger decks in April and 5 other decks in October.
I'd like WOTC to introduce a product to mirror Yugioh's $10 structure decks, and Pokemon's $15 V Battle Decks. The Challenger decks is kind of like Pokemon's $30 League Battle Decks.
New Capenna seems like it would be the main Commander release with 5 decks, but I have said it many times. I would like to see a set of 2 60-card decks with MTG Arena codes in them, like the Arena Starter Kit released alongside the remaining 3 sets to go along with the 2 Commander decks. I assume the D&D set with its 4 Commander decks is the outlier and that from now on, ever Winter, Summer, and Fall set will have 2 Commander decks.
I would like to see Core Sets return and release in the Spring alongside the main Commander release while having the Standard rotation in August. The Core sets should not be advertised as the newbie set, but as a reprint set and as a means to keep some cards in standard longer by reprinting them. That release would have the 20xx core set, 5 20xx commander decks (not 20xx core set commander decks), and the 4 20xx Challenger decks. No Arena Starter kits released along side this set. All the other 3 sets would have 2 Commander decks and 2 casual 60-card decks with MTG Arena codes, that focuses on the set's mechanics, because Commander is a poor tool to teach players about the mechanics of the set. Unless the Coven Counters commander deck is filled with Coven cards, then that deck won't teach any player about Coven. The mechanically based decks would be the 60-card decks while things like tribal or non-set specific mechanic strategies would be the Commander decks. Something where you can fill the entire deck with that strategy, as you don't have to draw from the one set that uses the mechanic. I would also like to see MTG Arena have a format where only the 60-card decks I mentioned before, the ones that would come with 3 of the standard sets, are legal. Pokemon had the theme deck format, and I would like to see that in MTG Arena.
If my idea holds true, there will be 13 Commander decks (I am adding 2 Commander decks for the Universes beyond, or maybe a non-standard set might come with Commander), and 10 60-card precons. This idea is only a means to get the number of 60-card preconstructed decks to 10 for each year, in case the Pioneer Challenger decks aren't annual and only happen for 2021. I hope that in 2022, there are 10 60-card base rules preconstructed deck options.
Let me guess, you are ok with WOTC charging double price for a product targeted for new players compared to their competitors, and you are ok with WOTC pandering to one format at the detriment of another. As long as their introductory products, that cost $30 to $50 caters towards bringing in more Commander players, that means that those players won't even try to even play any format that use the base rules, either because the cards are expensive, or they lose all the time. With that in mind, why would WOTC even try to give the effort in making Standard better? With the crappy standard, people would just quit standard and go to Commander, and thus WOTC would support Commander even more, and thus put even less effort into Standard, or any other base rules format, and those players would flock to commander, and thus WOTC supports Commander even more, and thus puts even less effort into standard...
But let's say we live in a scenario where Standard is completely dead. It's all Commander. Remember how the Zendikar Rising and Kaldheim Commander decks costed $25 each? The idea of $25 Commander decks are long gone. I predict that every future Commander deck will be the $50 variety. And they say that these are supposed to replace the Planeswalker decks? Do you know what should have replaced Planeswalker Decks? Almost something that cost just as much as them. Theme boosters are utter trash. I wish they just brought back Theme Decks.
WOTC is thinking about money. Short term gain for long term pain.
You know how we all laugh at those who are saying that Magic is dying? Well in a way it is dying. People would rather play by its alternate rules than its base rules.
From what I read, Pioneer is a dead format, and thus the Pioneer decks will most likely be a one year occurrence. I just hope there are 60-card preconstructed products to replace them, and if they replace them with yet another set of Commander decks, expect another rant.
I already complained enough about how the D&D set did not have Planeswalker Decks, and how every set from now on will feature Commander Decks, and that my options for 60-card precons have become more limited than before, so I hope that if the Pioneer Challenger Decks fail, there are replacement 60-card deck product line for them. I will complain even more if WOTC introduces yet even more Commander Deck options in lieu of the 60-card variety. In 2021, there are 10 60-card precons and 15 commander decks.
Ideally, I would like to see 60-card precons be brought back as the set associated precons, but only for the sets that have 2 Commander deck choices. These decks would replace the Arena Starter Kit, well not replace, but the Arena Starter Kit won't be one package containing 2 decks but 2 separate deck choices released with each set. So each year would have one set containing the 5 annual major Commander deck release, and the other 3 sets would contain the 2 Commander deck and the 2 60-card precons that contains code cards that can bring the deck into MTG Arena. It's not really adding anything. It is just replacing what would have been the Pionner Challenger Decks, if it fails, and the Arena Starter Kit. There would still be 10 60-card deck options.
We used to have 24 preconstructed decks that you could buy for under $25 after taxes. You have the 20 Intro Packs and the 4 duel decks, well 2 sets of 2 duel decks. All we have in 2021 are the 2 Arena Starter Kit decks, and the next cheapest option would be the $30 challenger decks.
We also don't know how much the Innistrad midnight Hunt commander decks will cost, but a store is selling it for $85 on preorder.
Cardfight Vanguard has $5 Start Decks. They aren't half decks or decks where you have to do something to make a complete deck. They are full 50 card decks. There are also 5 to choose from. That's cheap, and you get some choices. In 2021, Yugioh has 4 choices of under $15 precon decks and Pokemon has 6 choices. MTG only has 2, well you buy the thing and you get both in the form of the Arena Starter Kit. Anything else is higher than $20.
Because Commander is so popular, WOTC has no incentive to make Standard good anymore. Just keep on selling $50 commander decks, and keep releasing standard sets that people will buy without even thinking about the health of the format.
If I made a game, and someone else took my game, changed the rules a bit, and now everybody else is playing my game by the new rules, while I am desperately trying to get new players to play by my rules, I'd give up, and get people to play by the new rules, because that is where the money is.
There are deck construction rules, like 60-card, 100 card singleton, 40 card limited, and the gameplay rules, like your base rules, Commander, Vanguard, Archenemy, and Planechase. I've said this before. WOTC is over supporting Commander because they lack the confidence to make the base rules better than Commander. They aren't trying anymore.
You want reprints? Try our $10 a pack masters sets.
Core Sets will not exist when WOTC thinks about money.
I was wondering if Commander had any influence as to how the story is told for the Spring sets. Sure, every set has 5 factions, but some aren't as big of a deal as others, while Ikoria, Strixhaven, and most like Capenna, the 5 factions are a big deal. For Ikoria and Strixhaven, rather than something are these colors, like Werewolves are Red Green, it is Red White is Lorehold. Color combination is a certain faction because of the Commander influence in these sets.
I predict that, as long as the major Commander set release is tied to the Spring set, every spring set will have a storyline involving "these colors are a specific faction".
Do you think Ikoria and Strixhaven are "specific color combinations matter" sets? Even if gameplaywise, color does not matter, the story still revolves around 5 of something based on color, because of Commander.
What I'm saying is, the storyline of those sets isn't influencing the Commander decks. Commander is influencing the story of the set.
It has been done where Commander didn't influence the story of the set, and that set is the D&D set.
Nah man, I am going to fight it just like, back when Wolfenstein Enemy Territory was a thing, I am going to fight the fact that people there would rather use ETpub, No Quarter, or Jaymod instead of ETmain.
I didn't make up the definition. You can't say that life starts at 20 and at 40. One is the regular rule, the other is the modified rules. I believe that Magic, how it was originally designed and evolved is the regular rules.
If you have played any old PC games yourself, you have heard of expansion packs, mods, or even source ports. What Brutal Doom is to Doom, Commander is to Magic. When I mention Regular Doom, most people would visualize Vanilla Doom. Commander is nothing more than a fan made mod to Magic. Sure, there are differences in rules between Magic in 1993 and the current rules. That's the same as the difference between Doom v1.0 and Doom v1.9.
You're just triggered because you like Commander, and by saying that Commander isn't the regular rules of the game, you don't feel "normal" and thus your feelings get hurt, while others would know what I mean when I say "regular rules".
Why is it that it takes some fan modifications to the game in order for people to not care if they win or lose? Has anybody even tried to build a deck that is better than intro packs, where the limit is 0 mythics, 2 rares, one of which must be a creature, 12 uncommons, 24 to 26 basic lands, the rest commons.
WOTC could easily make better 60 card precons for $15, but they don't do it. Intro packs only sucked, as if it was punishment because you didn't give WOTC enough money. It's as if they sold you crappy decks in hope for you to buy more product to improve or replace the deck. Then they see some people actually enjoying the crappy decks, and not spending any money on other products, and thus, they spit in our faces.
$15 precons suck, but that is true for any game. Ever win games against casual Pokemon TCG decks with a Theme Deck, or casual Yugioh decks with an unmodified Structure deck? At least those games gave you an option to spend $15 on a deck at the expense of the deck not being competitive or valuable. MTG no longer has that option.
Too bad there's only 4 for the entire year.
So basically, WOTC don't know how to make 60 card, you know, the unmodified rules of the game, fun for casuals, meaning, they gave up.
I also never knew that Modern Horizons 2 are preconstructed decks.
Spending $50 precons and $10 booster packs is nothing to you it seems. I remember when I had little income, I could buy the $13 Intro Packs and enjoy the game that way. Now that's all gone.
That's your choice, but why abandon those who have been loyal to the regular rules of the game? You'd rather pay a lot of money for one precon deck? Well some of us don't.
I'll say this again. WOTC has zero confidence in promoting their own rules of the game, much so that they gave up and is now promoting the same game where a bunch of fans changed a bunch of rules and now everybody wants to play that instead of what Magic really is.
"Why try to fight the fact that people want to play Commander". More like, "We give up, our game sucks. People rather play a game someone else made by changing a few of our rules".
You try selling a $15 precon product and get people to buy it. How is it that every other trading card game have a under $15 preconstucted deck option, but MTG doesn't?
I used to buy the set of 4 Theme Decks per set for $50. I guess because I find ways to enjoy the game by not spending a lot on a set of 4 decks means that WOTC don't care about people like me anymore. Why care about a person who spends $50 on 4 decks when there is a person who will pay $50 for one deck.
Intro Packs are unplayable, based on what? Competitiveness? Pretty sure the $25 Commander Decks are pretty unplayable when matched up against any competitive Commander deck. I'd like you to make a better deck where you are confined to no mythics, 2 rares, 12 uncommons, the rest commons, and the cards must be from one set, oh, and stores must not have any incentives to mark up the price either.
When Theme Decks became Intro Packs, the Theme Decks were made for 2 crowds. Those who knew how to play, but wanted to explore the set, and the other crowd is the new player. They wanted to focus on the new player aspect, and thus Intro Packs were born. Because Intro Packs focused on the New Player, the decks were simplistic and boring. If only there are a set of 4 set associated precons focusing on making fun decks that showcases the set. We used to have Intro Packs and Event Decks. Another time, well for one set, we had Planeswalker Decks and Brawl Decks. We had a cheap precon option, and a more expensive one. Why can't every single set have a set of 4 or 5 $15 60 card precons, and a set of 2 $25 Commander precons? I find it hard to justify $15 Commander decks, which is why I went with the 60 card option. It also gives new players the choice.