Did you really think Commander 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016 were built by designing themes for it, and then assigning the color? I didn't think so. Like those 4 commander decks, Capenna's commander decks were designed from the get go to be Shard based. It is why Capenna has to be a shard set. How is that not reality?
I am repeating the same thing because YOU are not understanding what I am saying. There is absolutely no way Capenna is designed, story, gameplay, without them thinking that the Commander Decks are Shard colors.
My initial claim: Capenna, and Strixhaven, and Ikoria's sets are the way they are because the Commander Decks color identities are influencing them. This is true for Capenna's Crime Families, Strixhaven's Schools, and Ikoria's Triomes. It also doesn't have to do with factions. The 5 Major commander release decks' color identities will find its way into the set.
I also said that precons based on color, over theme, usually come from sets like Alara or Tarkir. Since the colors are predetermined for the main commander releases, most likely we will see Ravnica style sets. WOTC will have to be very creative to not make spring sets seem like reskins of one another.
The only things you said are:
1. All sets are faction sets. You fail to realize I am referring to the Ravnica style faction sets where the factions are divided by color, and the themes and mechanics are assigned to each, as opposed to a you divide by themes, and the mechanics and color are assigned to it. Not only that, the ravnica style set factions are heavily marketed, and the stories behind Ravnica, Alara, Tarkir, Strixhaven, and Capenna revolove around those factions. The other sets don't.
2. You only have 2 or 3 data points. I gave you more.
3. Those data points don't count. You didn't explain why.
4. People like color based faction sets. Are you talking about liking the cards or liking the fact that the plane is divided into color based factions?
5. You hijacked and derailed the thread. You are the one who triggered it because I have to explain everything to you.
At least with Capenna, I have explained why Capenna is your ravnica style faction set, and that's because it was the only way to be able to have the Commander Decks be shard based, hence why the Commander Decks have an influence on the set, while normally, it should be the other way around. It is the spring sets with the major commander release that has the deck affect the set. We won't know why for 8 of 8 times, that all 5 deck commander releases are one color combination type, such as shard, or wedge, or mono, or enemy, or ally, but that is the case, but nope, you disregard that data. Once you disregarded that data, you never refuted anything. All your posts initially were about factions, without even figuring out what kind of faction sets I was talking about. This all starts with world building. Are you assigning things and places to a color, or are you making that place and thing, and from it's characteristics, you assign the color that fits the theme of that color. Strixhaven and Capenna is the former, and I am talking about the former.
All your posts were also with regards to gameplay only, and I already mentioned that you never talked about storyline or world building, while my claims that Commander is affecting Ikoria, Strixhaven, and Capenna is based mostly on story. Ikoria's triomes, Strixhaven Schools, and Capenna Crime Families are story based.
Alternatively, shut the **** up.
If this is all you have to come up with, you've lost the argument.
The color identities of the commander decks of Ikoria, Strixhaven, and Capenna are predetermined, and it has an influence on the set. The color identities of the commander decks for Zendikar Rising, Kaldheim, D&D, Innistrad Midnight Hunt, Innistrad Crimson Vow, and Kamigawa Neon Dynasty is not predetermined, and does not influence the set. Talking about every set having factions does not address that the Commander Decks colors are limiting what the spring set could be. Sure you can have more design space if the Commander Decks are predetermined to be mono color, or 2 color, but design space gets more limited if you start going 3 color. The Major Commander release, provided it stays the course of 5 decks, all of which must be Mono, Enemy, Ally, Shard, Wedge, or 4 color, can't always be mono, or the 2 color kind all the time, as mono and 2 color has more design space to not make the set look like a Ravnica/Alara/Tarkir/Strixhaven/Capenna reskin.
If people, standard or commander players, want shard support, I am pretty sure that making an Alara reskin isn't the only way to do it. If it is, it just shows that if the Commander is predermined to be Shard colors, the set will be stuck being an Alara reskin.
Some of us also want the Major Commander release to not be from one plane, which is why I suggested bringing back Core Sets, in name only, because they do not belong to one plane. Did Core Sets really not sell just because it didn't belong to one plane? I doubt it. The core sets I was talking about is not the same core sets you have seen. They are not catered to newer players. They are built like the the other 3 expansions in the year, just that they have more reprints, and they don't have a plane associated with it. They also come with the Major Commander release. That's all there is. The entire product line would be Core Set 2023, Commander 2023, Challenger Decks 2023, Arena Starter Kit 2023. That's what I am trying to get at, instead of having limited design space, well in terms of story anyway, as to what a plane to be because it has to fit the predetermined color identities of 5 commander decks.
My initial claim: Capenna, and Strixhaven, and Ikoria's sets are the way they are because the Commander Decks color identities are influencing them. This is true for Capenna's Crime Families, Strixhaven's Schools, and Ikoria's Triomes. It also doesn't have to do with factions. The 5 Major commander release decks' color identities will find its way into the set.
I also said that precons based on color, over theme, usually come from sets like Alara or Tarkir. Since the colors are predetermined for the main commander releases, most likely we will see Ravnica style sets. WOTC will have to be very creative to not make spring sets seem like reskins of one another.
The only things you said are:
1. All sets are faction sets. You fail to realize I am referring to the Ravnica style faction sets where the factions are divided by color, and the themes and mechanics are assigned to each, as opposed to a you divide by themes, and the mechanics and color are assigned to it. Not only that, the ravnica style set factions are heavily marketed, and the stories behind Ravnica, Alara, Tarkir, Strixhaven, and Capenna revolove around those factions. The other sets don't.
2. You only have 2 or 3 data points. I gave you more.
3. Those data points don't count. You didn't explain why.
4. People like color based faction sets. Are you talking about liking the cards or liking the fact that the plane is divided into color based factions?
5. You hijacked and derailed the thread. You are the one who triggered it because I have to explain everything to you.
At least with Capenna, I have explained why Capenna is your ravnica style faction set, and that's because it was the only way to be able to have the Commander Decks be shard based, hence why the Commander Decks have an influence on the set, while normally, it should be the other way around. It is the spring sets with the major commander release that has the deck affect the set. We won't know why for 8 of 8 times, that all 5 deck commander releases are one color combination type, such as shard, or wedge, or mono, or enemy, or ally, but that is the case, but nope, you disregard that data. Once you disregarded that data, you never refuted anything. All your posts initially were about factions, without even figuring out what kind of faction sets I was talking about. This all starts with world building. Are you assigning things and places to a color, or are you making that place and thing, and from it's characteristics, you assign the color that fits the theme of that color. Strixhaven and Capenna is the former, and I am talking about the former.
All your posts were also with regards to gameplay only, and I already mentioned that you never talked about storyline or world building, while my claims that Commander is affecting Ikoria, Strixhaven, and Capenna is based mostly on story. Ikoria's triomes, Strixhaven Schools, and Capenna Crime Families are story based.
You can't refute my claims. You say my data points are invalid because you can't refute it, and I just proved to you my data points are valid. You put words in my mouth, saying that all sets are built in such a way to cater to the precon. That is not what I said. I only said it that was the case with Ikoria, Strixhaven and Capenna. You also fail to read that I was trying to discontinue the idea of the MAJOR commander release. Turn the spring set's commander decks into what the Fall, Winter, and Summer decks are.
The Major commander release is usually the avenue in which the desires of the commander players are heard. We want shard commanders, we want 4 color commanders etc. The Commander decks has to tie in with the spring set, so if the commander players wishes want to be heard, let's say they want shard commanders, then the Commander Decks have to be shard, and since it has to tie in with the theme of the set, the set also has to be shard.
So why not have the major commander release tie in with a set for Commander players? Commander legends. The spring set can be just like the fall, summer and winter set, where there are 2 commander decks. Besides, there is always an extra set that comes with commander decks. We had 5 standard sets in 2021. 2020 had Commander Legends that came with 2 decks. This year we will have 4 decks for the new Commander Legends set. Have the "we want all shards" decks tie in with Commander Legends, and have the 4 deck mix of shard, wedge, mono, ally, enemy, be tied to the standard spring set.
They make precons to fit the themes of the set, not the other way around. It would make zero sense to do so the other way.
I never said that sets were built around set associated precons. Just the 3 latest spring sets, and not the entire set is built from the commander decks, just some influence of the commander decks have on the set. Usually when precons are made, you don't assign color to them first. The theme is assigned to it, then the colors. Ikoria, Strixhaven, and Capenna Commander decks have its colors preassigned, so the themes and mechanics have to match those colors.
Why discontinue a product that sells so well? Especially when the alternative commander decks sell so poorly? Do you not understand how making money works?
So Kamigawa, Innistrad and D&D commander decks sold poorly compared to Strixhaven? I guess people like the fact that there are 5 decks in the set instead of 2, then if that was the case, why not have every set have 5 decks? The ones from Kamigawa, Innistrad and D&D are built the same way. Same number of new cards, same price.
What does listing previous precons/ commander decks do to establish your belief that commander releases warp the design of the sets around them? It's just more junk data.
It's not junk data as long as the idea of a major commander release still exists. If it didn't exist, then yeah, maybe WOTC wanted to make a shard set, but I believe Capenna is a shard set because Commander 2022 is a set of 5 shard decks, that is if there are still major commander releases.
Why not have them? They sell much better than the other products you listed.
Have what? The product I listed are core sets with a major commander release, getting rid of major commander releases, and have the spring set be just like the fall, winter, and summer sets, or having the major commander release tied to commander legends, and not a standard set. I fail to see how this would make any less money. Same or more commander decks. You have not explained whether people hate core sets because of the lack of a plane, or is it because the set is not as complex and has bad cards.
A combination of all the major Commander precons and the set associated precons would suggest it is way easier to just make a Ravnica style set just to make sure that, in Capenna's case, all 5 Commander Decks are shard colors because as history suggests, with major commander releases, and with no exceptions, so far, all must be either mono, enemy, ally, shard, wedge, or 4 color. There is never a mix of any of the 6 I mentioned.
The whole point of tying commander decks to planes and sets is to help expand the mechanical depth of sets so that commander decks can be built around their themes. Before this method, most set mechanics and themes simply weren't deep enough for a commander deck. This is done now as a way to solve that issue without polluting standard with too many obvious commander plants.
Then why dedicate one set to be a major commander release? Why can't all 4 sets have 3 Commander decks each? Why not have a dedicated Commander Legends set with the major Commander release instead of tying it with a standard set? Some of us don't like the idea that all 5 major Commander release legendaries are from the same plane. I do have this to say. If you bought one deck from each set in the year, technically all the characters from the 4 decks you bought would have been from different planes. It's too bad we won't see obscure characters from a plane we will never visit, or an old character.
Explain to me, why has every Commander deck release that had 5 decks been all shards, wedges, ally, mono, enemy, or 4 color, and not any combination? Why?
Capenna didn't have to be all shards and have a shard theme It could be about something else, and have themes for 5 decks. The 5 decks could be mono white, blue green, blue black red, white black red green, and 5 color deck. That's how the years with 4 Commander Decks were, and pretty much every time we had Theme Decks. Even with Intro Packs, it wasn't always all enemy or ally color, although the intro pack were all color balanced, that is one set didn't have intro packs featuring more of one color over the other.
If people like uniform all wedge, or all shard major commander releases instead of the 4 deck mix of 2 color, or 3 color decks we had for Commander 2017, 2018, and 2019, then wouldn't the decks, let's take Commander 2022, and it being all shards, then be preassigned as shard decks? Therefore, if the Commander Decks being shard decks are based on themes and mechanics of the set, then wouldn't the set have to be a shard set?
If there is a demand for nephilim decks for Commander 2023, then it would have an influence on it's set being a nephilim set, or a nephilim subtheme. If the Commander players wanted shard commander decks for the major commander release, but Standard players didn't want a reskin of Alara for their spring set, how would you create that set?
You always say that my data of using all the set associated precons and every commander deck released don't mean a thing. I used that data to suggest to you why Capenna is all Shards. Maybe people like it when it's all shards instead of being a mix. As for the set associated precons. It is shown that if you want your decks to have preassigned colors, you are better off making Ravnica style sets. In a set like Scars of Mirrodin, the themes of the 5 intro packs are Myr, Metalcraft, Proliferate, Artifact destruction, and Infect. You can't just pick color combinations, let's say, all ally color, and hope all 5 of those themes fit. The point is to showcase the themes as best as possible. For a set like Khans of Tarkir, your themes for the 5 decks are Abzan, Jeskai, Sultai, Mardu, and Temur. Abzan is Black Green White, so it's intro pack is black green white. We can reverse this and say if we want a Black Green White intro pack, then we can insert the Abzan theme into it. Unlike if we tried it with Scars of Mirrodin, and took black red for example, that color combination may not best showcase any of the themes compared to if it was whatever the 5 intro packs used.
I am discontinuing the idea of a major commander release not discontinuing the decks themselves.
Look at past major commander releases that had 5 decks. Wedge, Shard, Mono, Enemy, 4 color, 3 years of 4 decks, Wedge, Enemy, Shard. I mention shards because that is what the new capenna commander decks are. Shards. WOTC could have made a non-ravnica like set, and created 5 decks with a mixture of Mono, Enemy, Ally, Shard, Wedge, 4 color, or 5 color decks, that fit the themes and mechanics of the set. Kind of like Lorwyn. It has a mono white deck, a blue white deck, a black red deck, a 5 color deck, and a black green deck.
I mention the number of new cards in the commander deck, and the price because there is no difference between a major commander deck released in spring compared to the ones released in winter. Tell me. What is so different between the Strixhaven commander decks and the commander decks of the d&d set, both innistrad sets, and kamigawa, in terms of number of new cards and the price of each deck? None. So why even have major commander releases?
You also don't understand. I never said replace the major commander release with a core set. Either discontinue the idea of a major commander release, the ones that affect the set and plane they are aligned with, or bring back core sets while keeping the idea of a major commander release.
By discontinuing the major commander release, each set can have 3 commander decks. The idea of saying that all 5 decks for Commander 2023 is 4 color, or mono color, or wedge color, would be gone.
Bring back the idea of a core set, in this case, a set not associated with a plane means your major commander release don't have to have 5 legendaries from one plane. Not only that, you can say that all 5 decks can be shard decks without having the idea of shard colors in the world building and story of the associated plane.
Why can't I use historical trends of the annual commander decks and every set associated precon? The spring commander decks traces its lineage to both the annual commander decks, as referenced in Gavin's article saying the annual commander decks changed from August to April of each year, and the set associated precons, as referenced in that same article stating planeswalker decks are replaced by Commander decks.
A third option other than turn the spring set into a core set or get rid of the idea of a major commander release is to have all 4 standard sets release 2 commander decks, while the major commander release releases with an annual commander legends set. That way, the descendant of Commander 2013 and the descendant of intro packs of the spring set of that year won't be the same product, but 2 separate products.
The major commander release, and a standard set with an associated plane needs to stay separate. I don't want spring sets be limited to certain kinds of sets or certain kinds of planes just to make it work with the major Commander release.
The results of the influence of the major commander releases to the stories of he spring sets are Ikoria's triomes, Strixhaven schools, and Capenna's crime families. There is absolutely no way that WOTC is thinking to make a shard set without thinking that Commander 2022 is shards.
You still haven't answered whether people like multicolor faction sets because of the cards or because of the story.
You can have a set similar to Capenna, except that it is a core set, set in no particular plane, and the 5 legendary creatures from each commander deck be from different planes. All cards functionally identical except references to capenna are removed and replaced with references to various other planes. Would people buy this set? All that's changed is the lack of plane and how the story is told. All cards would be identical.
I just realized you were trolling the entire time. Enticing more and more rage in every response I've made. Stating every set is a faction set, when you don't see tbat I am referring to the thing that is unique to Ravnica, Alara, Tarkir, Strixhaven, and New Capenna, even stating Ikoria is a faction set when, compared to Ravnica, is not. I give examples as to why Capenna is the way it is, and you state my examples don't count without explaining why. I've explained myself, stating that was how WOTC did things for the past decade.
You literally didn't do any of that. You stated your opinions and specifically avoided explaining them. You just keep insisting that the entirety of design is putting the cart before the horse. If you're getting angrier and angrier at each of my posts, then you're over investing.
Do you believe that Odyssey is a graveyard set because they had to make a black-red theme deck that used the threshold mechanic? Geez, the rares in white-blue one were a nomad and a cephalid. No wonder we didn't get any soldiers or merfolk; they designed the set to match the theme deck.
That's not what I said. Every set associated precon has decks designed with the set in mind. This isn't the case with the last 3 spring sets. There is some influence that the Commander decks have, usually the color identity, on the set because they are the major Commander release.
What I want WOTC to do is discontinue the major Commander release, and have each set release 3 Commander decks instead, or have the spring set be a core set.
Getting rid of the major commander release means that the decks can be built like every single set associated precon, where the deck is based on the set, and the set isn't influenced by the precons.
Turning the spring set into a core set means that the major commander release won't have legendaries all from the same plane.
As it stands, the spring set is affecting the major commander release, and the major commander release is affecting the spring set.
Kamigawa Neon Dynasty Commander decks lineage is the Planeswalker decks, Intro Packs, and Theme decks that came before them. Capenna comnander decks lineage is the same plus the annual Commander decks that came before. WOTC needs to decide if they are set associated precons or a major Commander release, not both. The reason we have shard theme Capenna is because 2022 major Comnander decks have to be all shards.
Why even have a major commander release when all comnander decks have the same number of new cards regardless of which set it is from?
It made sense 2 years ago because the major commander decks had more new cards and cost more than the non, major ones. Now there is no difference.
Maybe the spring 2023 set won't be influenced by its commander decks because WOTC realizes that there is no point in major commander releases anymore.
I just realized you were trolling the entire time. Enticing more and more rage in every response I've made. Stating every set is a faction set, when you don't see tbat I am referring to the thing that is unique to Ravnica, Alara, Tarkir, Strixhaven, and New Capenna, even stating Ikoria is a faction set when, compared to Ravnica, is not. I give examples as to why Capenna is the way it is, and you state my examples don't count without explaining why. I've explained myself, stating that was how WOTC did things for the past decade.
Ever since Commander decks were released in groups of 5, it was always all of either mono, ally, enemy, wedge, shard, or 4 color. Never a mix of any of the 6. The 5 decks are also color balanced, meaning that all colors are represented equally across all 5 decks.
Set associated precons are precons that take a theme or mechanic and build a deck around it.
New Capenna Commander decks traces its lineage with the annual Commander release started with Commander 2013. It also traces its lineage with every single set associated precon that came before.
Ikoria, Strixhaven, and New Capenna Commander decks is trying to be both the annual major Commander release and the set's associated precon, when it should only be one of the two.
My belief is that WOTC decided to have 2022's Commander decks be shard, so that means to have the themes and mechanics of the set make sense with the set associated precon, the set has to be shard themed. There is zero chance that the Commander decks have zero influence on what the set is.
Then again, it is easy to refute my claims saying that my data does not count, especially when you probably don't follow precon releases for the past 15 to 20 years like I have.
I am right here agreeing with the complaints that the new Capenna set is affecting the 2022 major commander release, while at the same time, I state that the 2022 major Commander release is affecting what the set here. You then jump in and started the derailment by stating that every set was a faction set, when only Ravnica, Alara, Tarkir, Strixhaven, and Capenna are faction sets, much so that it is baked into the story.
Capenna is a spring set with the major Commander release. I am having discussions over "Commander 2022" having an effect over what Capenna is, and pretty much the same goes for every spring set. Either WOTC has to make a colored faction set, with colored factions as its main theme, or they, through the world building, have to mention the color identities of the Commander decks.
Commander 2022 are shard decks.
Take the idea of the shard and build a set around it. Add themes and mechanics to those shards.
Using those themes and mechanics from those shards, build the commander decks.
There is no way that WOTC suddenly wanted to make New Capenna a shard set without thinking about the 2022 major Commander release.
Last time I checked, this thread is about Capenna, which is a spring set, and Commander. My complaint is Capenna has almost the same formula as Strixhaven, and it is because of the Major Commander release.
You keep on saying 3 data points. Are you going to say someone is definitely, for sure, wrong just because they say that there is going to be 5 set associated Commander Decks in the Spring 2023 set?
Every time WOTC has released 5 Commander decks at once, all of them are either Mono color, enemy color, wedge, shard, or 4 color. There was never a mix of any of these. That is 8 data points.
Commander 2011
Commander 2013
Commander 2014
Commander 2015
Commander 2016
Ikoria Commander
Strixhaven Commander
Streets of New Capenna Commander.
There are 14 data points of sets based on factions whose precons are themed after the factions.
Ravnica City of Guilds
Guildpact
Dissension
Shards of Alara
Conflux
Return to Ravnica
Gatecrash
Dragon's Maze
Khans of Tarkir
Dragons of Tarkir
Guilds of Ravnica
Ravnica Allegiance
Strixhaven
Streets of New Capenna
WOTC could keep the same themes used to make the Commander Decks from Ikoria to the current set, and have them be Theme Decks, Intro Packs or Planeswalker decks. Likewise, they could also keep the same themes used to make the Theme Decks, Intro Packs, and Planeswalker Decks, and make them into Commander Decks. With that in mind, as long as there are 5 Commander decks in the set, for some reason, they have to be all of same color combination type, such as all ally color, all wedges etc, and since these decks are tied to sets, and with what the Theme Decks, Intro Packs, Planeswalker Deck, and set associated Commander Decks themes are, it would be safe to assume that because every Spring set is associated with the Major Commander release and every Commander release with 5 decks has to be only one type of color combinations, such as all wedges, as shown by 8 data points not 3, it is easier to make a faction based set, like the Guilds of Ravnica, Shards of Alara, Schools of Strixhaven, Khans of Tarkir, or Crime Families of Capenna.
If you were to make a set knowing that the set associated Commander decks had to be all 5 shard based colors, there is no way you would create a set where there is no reference to any shard colors anywhere. Likewise, if you created a set, and you wanted the set associated Commander decks to best showcase the set, like Theme Decks and Intro Packs did before, history has shown that unless the set is color themed, chances are you are going to get a mix of mono, 2 color, 3 color, ally, wedge, shard, or enemy color decks. Shards of Alara was a Shard set, and it's intro packs are based on each shard because that is what the set is. For New Capenna, WOTC knows that the Commander Decks are shard based, so they had to build the set, gameplay, world, storyline, with a shard theme, or else the Commander Decks won't fit. That is how it is going to be every spring, and that is with using every single Commander Deck release in existence, that came in groups of 5, and how WOTC released every set associated precon ever.
If as you say, we are getting a shard set because people wanted shard cards, WOTC could have achieved the same result, and released a set of 5 Commander Decks similar to how they did in 2013, and release a Core set alongside it with some Shard sub themes, but no, there has to be a plane attached to it with heavy shard themes.
What part of a color matters set don't you understand? The idea where the world is divided into factions based on color? To the point that colors matters so much that every colored faction has a name? It matters so much that every set associated precon has that faction's name on it, not only that, the Theme Boosters and Prerelease packs are based on those factions? There is no way you could tell the difference because you think all sets are based on color.
I realized that all you said had no mention of the storyline. It's all gameplay.
The idea of a plane only makes sense in a story perspective, not gameplay. If you care about gameplay, like what most of your arguments are all about, then it doesn't matter which cards are from which plane, but because Strixhaven's Commander decks have to be enemy color, there has to be an enemy color theme in the story. In other sets, the idea of colored factions isn't as pronounced as in Strixhaven or New Capenna. Ikoria Triomes, Strixhaven schools, and New Capenna crime families are story elements. These elements exist because the Commander Decks have to be certain colors. The Ikoria, Strixhaven, and New Capenna Commander decks being all wedge, enemy color, and shard colors respectively is the same reason why Commander 2011 is all wedge, 2013 is all shard, 2014 is all mono color, 2015 is all enemy color, and 2016 is all colors but one.
My idea to have the core set coincide with the main commander release is to have the story focus on 5 characters, not on a single plane, so each plane's storyline concept won't be a carbon copy of, here are 5 places or factions, with their color identities. You'd also have to see that with the popularity of Commander, the idea of wanting a Wedge or Shard set would increase, but that is only to get the multicolor cards.
So you're telling me that a Core set filled with shard or wedge cards is not as desirable as a plane focused on shards or wedges? Are people demanding shard and wedge cards, or a plane that is shard or wedge themed?
Ikoria is a faction set. It was also a Wedge set, with wedges being one of the most frequent requests. Strixhaven was an enemy color set. Also heavily requested. Capenna has a shard theme, also heavily requested.
Multicolor is by and far the most commonly revisited theme, and literally part of the core of the game.
You're spinning out about nothing.
Why are these sets in the Spring? Don't you think it is because of Commander that the idea of Wedge, Shard, Ally color, Enemy Color, and Mono Color matters sets are highly requested? Wouldn't that mean that the Spring sets are the way they are because of Commander? You also have no idea what a faction set is. A faction set is a set that being in a sub group matters more than everything else. Odyssey has the 5 factions. The Order, the Cephalids, the Cabal, the Pardic Mountains, and the Krosan Forest. The idea of these factions is very minimal, as Odyssey is a graveyard matters set. Ravnica's factions are all front and center to the point that that is the entire theme of every set with the word Ravnica in it.
Ikoria is not a faction set. It has a wedge subtheme, but it is only there because of it's set associated Commander decks. WOTC could have easily made Ikoria a pure "make monsters" set, and it wouldn't have been any different with or without a Wedge subtheme. The Wedge subtheme is only there because of Commander, and I highly doubt those who do not care about Commander are demanding a Wedge set.
Here is another reason why I think Commander has an influence on the Spring sets. The idea of the major commander release. Why does a major commander release even exist? Why not have each set come with 3 Commander decks? It used to make sense to have a major Commander release because back then, those things came out once a year, not to mention that ever since WOTC removed the cheap Commander deck option, all Commander decks now have the same number of new cards, regardless if those decks are your major release commander decks or not.
Either do away with the major Commander release, or keep the major Commander release, but that release has to go with a Core Set.
They release in the spring because there are only 4 options for seasons to release within. No I don't think crazy random things based purely off of coincidence and your need to see patterns where they do not exist. Commander is one of the factors involved, but multicolor sets have been popular for much, much longer than commander has been popular for. Odyssey is irrelevant here, although I do agree it is not a faction set.
Ikoria is definitely a faction set. It has the borders, using +1/+1 counters and ability counters. It has the monsters using mutate. It has the human tribal themes. These themes matter more than the other parts of the set. It is also a Wedge set. This is clearly baked into the design, and why things like colorless cycling, triomes, and hybrid mana are so prolific within the set. The set clearly benefits from the Wedge themes. There was demand for Wedge sets before there was demand for commander products. Planar Chaos had a Wedge theme before commander had even been renamed from EDH.
Your presumptions seem to hinge on the bizarre belief that a 5 deck commander release must happen in the spring, and therefore warps the spring set. They could release the 5 commander decks any time of the year. They are intentionally flexible.
What are you even talking about with "cheap commander deck" nonsense?
Why would they tie their best selling product to one that sold so poorly that it has been discontinued? This makes no sense what so ever.
Cheap Commander Deck? Have you heard of Zendikar Rising and Kaldheim?
Just by saying Ikoria being a Wedge set, much like Strixhaven being a Enemy Color set, or New Capenna being a shard set, you have proven to me that every single Spring set, so as long as we have this whole notion of a major Commander release, that every spring set will either be a Wedge set, Shard set, Ally color set, Enemy Color set, or Mono Color matters set. No Enchantment, Graveyard, Legendary, Artifact, Basic, High mana cost, Low mana cost, keyword abilities, or whatever anyone could think of, that has nothing to do with color, matters set.
Usually my argument that Commander has an influence on the Spring sets would be shot down because Ikoria wasn't a Wedge set, and here you are, saying it is.
Planar chaos, having a wedge theme, because of 5 cards, does not make it a wedge set, much like how Ravnica isn't a 4 color set.
You mean the worst selling commander decks of all time? Don't really see why they would make more like those.
You mean like the vast majority of sets ever released? You're basing your bizarre conspiracy theory off of a pattern that doesn't exist and only has three data points. It literally proves nothing. Further, they've done major Commander deck releases before that were not based on color matched factions.
I don't really care what other ways your worthless theory has also been disproven by others.
Planar Chaos dragons were the most popular rares released that year. The set had plenty of supporting enemy color focus to help with it, and draft was designed around it. Did you ever draft Planar Chaos?
Interesting that you bring up Ravnica, which had a whopping 8 multicolor faction sets, and a total of zero coinciding commander decks.
You're looking for a reason to get upset over nothing. You should think more about that than this half baked theory. You may as well be arguing that the moon landing was faked. It would probably make more sense to do that, because at least then you'd have some other logic-innoculated individuals to agree with.
If they have done commander decks before, not related to color based factions, then why are the Spring Commander releases have sets that are tied to the color based factions? Any set could have themes to make 5 decks, but WOTC chooses not to do it. Ravnica had 8 multicolor faction sets, with no Commander decks, but they had Theme Decks, Intro Packs, and Planeswalker decks. Bet you don't know what the themes and mechanics of these decks are all about do you.
So far, it is 3 for 3. It is going to be 4 for 4, 5 for 5, and then 6 for 6 and so on. When we get a Spring set that has Wedge, Ally, Enemy, Mono, or Shard Commander decks, and the set has nothing to do with what the colors of the Commander Decks are, while holding onto the idea of a Major Commander release, then my argument won't hold true. Commander's rules relies on color, you know, the color identity? It would make the most sense that a major commander release's set would have something to do with color.
I doubt that when designing Planar Chaos, WOTC is saying, "let's make a wedge set". If that's the case, it's 4 theme decks would be all Wedge colored, but they're not. Usually the Theme Decks and Intro Packs showcase the themes and mechanics of the set, and if the set is Wedge focused, we'd get Wedge precons. Look at Khans of Tarkir.
All I am saying is, just like Ikoria, Planar Chaos, or any other set not named Alara, Tarkir, Strixhaven, or Capenna, that you can have a color theme to it, without having the entire set's focus be on any number of colored factions. Some of us want to go back to the old Commander precons where the 5 characters have nothing to do with each other. I don't want specific planes to be carbon copies of Ravnica, just change the fact that they aren't guilds but instead they are schools, shards, clans, or crime families.
Let's say I am obsessed with set associated precons, and I pretty much own almost every one of them starting from Nemesis, with the exception of Prophecy, Planeshift, Lorwyn Shadowmoor block, Alara Block, and Zendikar block. I know that for each deck they are based on themes and mechanics from the set. It is no different with the set associated Commander decks. Kamigawa's Commander decks are all about vehicles and modify. So far, with the spring sets being tied to the major commander release, we have color faction sets. It as if WOTC decided that the decks are shard color, and they have to build the set in such a way to have a shard theme, or some sort of subtheme. The easiest way to make sure that your precons are these specific colors, and also be thematically linked to the set is to make the set be color focused. The Commander decks, or intro packs, or theme decks, must all have ally colors, so the easiest way is to make a Ravnica like set.
For color based factions, there is a difference between starting out with one or more colors, and assigning things, places, or gameplay mechanics to it, as opposed to having the gameplay mechanic, thing, or place be assigned a color. An example of the former is anything whose major theme is based on color, and the latter is Innistrad's vampires being red black, or a elves of Lorwyn being black green.
So far, with Strixhaven and New Capenna, the concept is, divide the factions into colors, and put organize places, things, or gameplay mechanics into these colors. If the Commander Decks of a major release have to be certain colors, such as all shard, wedge, ally color, mono color, or enemy color, it would be easy to just make a color based set, and I don't see WOTC changing from this formula. Ikoria had wedge commander decks, but their themes weren't Wedge based. The Symbiotic Swarm isn't a Black Green White matters deck. It is a keyword counters matters deck, or how enhanced evolution isn't a black green blue matters deck, but a mutate matters deck. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that keyword counters is not limited to the Black Green White wedge, and mutate is not limited to the Black Green Blue wedge. With Strixhaven, whatever them that deck is is is pretty much contained within that one school that deck represents.
As I said, loads of theme decks, intro packs, and Planeswalker decks. Usually, they pick a theme from the set, build a deck, and pick the colors that best suit the theme, but when you have to have the Commander decks be a specific color, you kind of have to build a color based set to make those Commander decks work, and I don't see how WOTC can do any different.
All I'm saying is, with New Capenna, WOTC could have made it not about color, and instead be like Kamigawa, or Innistrad. Pick 5 themes from the set, and build decks around it, and then assign the color of that deck that makes the most sense, instead of saying that the deck has to be certain colors. WOTC has done it for years with Intro Packs and Theme Decks, but why would they do that? Those kinds of sets and Commander precons are reserved for the non-major Commander releases in the Summer, Fall, and Winter.
Every new plane is going in the Spring is going to be wasted because something about it has to line up with the fact that the Commander release has to be a Wedge, Shard, Ally color, Enemy color, or Mono color set. It isn't to say that WOTC has to make all ally color decks or wedge decks. They have done so in 2017 to 2019, but for Commander 2020 and beyond, they wanted to go back to all wedge, all shard etc. Here's my prediction. Spring 2023 set is a world with discrimination where people discriminate against people who don't use their color of mana, and everybody in that world is born with the ability to use one color of mana. Spring 2024 set is a plane where you have your allied colors and each ally color is a job in the world.
Just think. What do you think is easier if the Spring 2023 major Commander release has to be allied color. Make an Allied color matters set, or make a set, and hope the themes and mechanics happen to line up with the allied colors? Why would WOTC want to do anything the hard way? They couldn't even come up with 5 themes to make 5 Kamigawa Neon Dynasty Commander Decks.
You keep on saying this is a conspiracy, but ever since set associated precons existed, they are meant to show the themes and mechanics of the set, and if a precon has to be a specific color, like Red White, there is no choice but to make a red white based theme in the set just so the precon can fit that theme. Strixhaven is a enemy color school theme, because if it was anything else, it would be difficult to ensure that all 5 commander decks would be enemy color. This is even more so if the decks have to be wedge, shard, or nephilim colors. Any set associated precons with Wedge, or Shard, is a set in which the Wedge of Shard matters. Years of Theme Decks and Intro Packs suggest that it is kind of difficult to have all ally or enemy color decks in the set without the set being color based.
Every set is a faction set, but only sets like Ravnica, Alara, Khans of Tarkir, Strixhaven and Streets of New Capenna have the whole idea of factions in the front and center, to the point that each of these factions have names. Look at every single set with Theme boosters out there. Which sets have theme boosters that aren't just your typical mono color?
Then you have Ikoria. Ikoria has your mono color theme booster, and wedge color commander decks. Each deck has speciic themes that fit the Ikoria themes and mechanics. I remember one was all about keyword mechanics, and the another was all about the mutate mechanic. The storyline of Ikoria did not have to mention that the Commander Decks were wedged colors, like I don't know, the triomes?
So I will keep asking this, why does Ikoria have the Wedge color triomes, and why does Strixhaven and New Capenna have non-mono color theme boosters, like every other set?
Ikoria is a faction set. It was also a Wedge set, with wedges being one of the most frequent requests. Strixhaven was an enemy color set. Also heavily requested. Capenna has a shard theme, also heavily requested.
Multicolor is by and far the most commonly revisited theme, and literally part of the core of the game.
You're spinning out about nothing.
Why are these sets in the Spring? Don't you think it is because of Commander that the idea of Wedge, Shard, Ally color, Enemy Color, and Mono Color matters sets are highly requested? Wouldn't that mean that the Spring sets are the way they are because of Commander? You also have no idea what a faction set is. A faction set is a set that being in a sub group matters more than everything else. Odyssey has the 5 factions. The Order, the Cephalids, the Cabal, the Pardic Mountains, and the Krosan Forest. The idea of these factions is very minimal, as Odyssey is a graveyard matters set. Ravnica's factions are all front and center to the point that that is the entire theme of every set with the word Ravnica in it.
Ikoria is not a faction set. It has a wedge subtheme, but it is only there because of it's set associated Commander decks. WOTC could have easily made Ikoria a pure "make monsters" set, and it wouldn't have been any different with or without a Wedge subtheme. The Wedge subtheme is only there because of Commander, and I highly doubt those who do not care about Commander are demanding a Wedge set.
Here is another reason why I think Commander has an influence on the Spring sets. The idea of the major commander release. Why does a major commander release even exist? Why not have each set come with 3 Commander decks? It used to make sense to have a major Commander release because back then, those things came out once a year, not to mention that ever since WOTC removed the cheap Commander deck option, all Commander decks now have the same number of new cards, regardless if those decks are your major release commander decks or not.
Either do away with the major Commander release, or keep the major Commander release, but that release has to go with a Core Set.
They release in the spring because there are only 4 options for seasons to release within. No I don't think crazy random things based purely off of coincidence and your need to see patterns where they do not exist. Commander is one of the factors involved, but multicolor sets have been popular for much, much longer than commander has been popular for. Odyssey is irrelevant here, although I do agree it is not a faction set.
Ikoria is definitely a faction set. It has the borders, using +1/+1 counters and ability counters. It has the monsters using mutate. It has the human tribal themes. These themes matter more than the other parts of the set. It is also a Wedge set. This is clearly baked into the design, and why things like colorless cycling, triomes, and hybrid mana are so prolific within the set. The set clearly benefits from the Wedge themes. There was demand for Wedge sets before there was demand for commander products. Planar Chaos had a Wedge theme before commander had even been renamed from EDH.
Your presumptions seem to hinge on the bizarre belief that a 5 deck commander release must happen in the spring, and therefore warps the spring set. They could release the 5 commander decks any time of the year. They are intentionally flexible.
What are you even talking about with "cheap commander deck" nonsense?
Why would they tie their best selling product to one that sold so poorly that it has been discontinued? This makes no sense what so ever.
Cheap Commander Deck? Have you heard of Zendikar Rising and Kaldheim?
Just by saying Ikoria being a Wedge set, much like Strixhaven being a Enemy Color set, or New Capenna being a shard set, you have proven to me that every single Spring set, so as long as we have this whole notion of a major Commander release, that every spring set will either be a Wedge set, Shard set, Ally color set, Enemy Color set, or Mono Color matters set. No Enchantment, Graveyard, Legendary, Artifact, Basic, High mana cost, Low mana cost, keyword abilities, or whatever anyone could think of, that has nothing to do with color, matters set.
Usually my argument that Commander has an influence on the Spring sets would be shot down because Ikoria wasn't a Wedge set, and here you are, saying it is.
Planar chaos, having a wedge theme, because of 5 cards, does not make it a wedge set, much like how Ravnica isn't a 4 color set.
You haven't explained why these color matters sets, and let's say Ikoria is a wedge set, like you say, is released in the Spring, and not in the Fall, Summer, or Winter. There are indeed 4 options, so why just the one option, and not the other three?
Every set is a faction set, but only sets like Ravnica, Alara, Khans of Tarkir, Strixhaven and Streets of New Capenna have the whole idea of factions in the front and center, to the point that each of these factions have names. Look at every single set with Theme boosters out there. Which sets have theme boosters that aren't just your typical mono color?
Then you have Ikoria. Ikoria has your mono color theme booster, and wedge color commander decks. Each deck has speciic themes that fit the Ikoria themes and mechanics. I remember one was all about keyword mechanics, and the another was all about the mutate mechanic. The storyline of Ikoria did not have to mention that the Commander Decks were wedged colors, like I don't know, the triomes?
So I will keep asking this, why does Ikoria have the Wedge color triomes, and why does Strixhaven and New Capenna have non-mono color theme boosters, like every other set?
Ikoria is a faction set. It was also a Wedge set, with wedges being one of the most frequent requests. Strixhaven was an enemy color set. Also heavily requested. Capenna has a shard theme, also heavily requested.
Multicolor is by and far the most commonly revisited theme, and literally part of the core of the game.
You're spinning out about nothing.
Why are these sets in the Spring? Don't you think it is because of Commander that the idea of Wedge, Shard, Ally color, Enemy Color, and Mono Color matters sets are highly requested? Wouldn't that mean that the Spring sets are the way they are because of Commander? You also have no idea what a faction set is. A faction set is a set that being in a sub group matters more than everything else. Odyssey has the 5 factions. The Order, the Cephalids, the Cabal, the Pardic Mountains, and the Krosan Forest. The idea of these factions is very minimal, as Odyssey is a graveyard matters set. Ravnica's factions are all front and center to the point that that is the entire theme of every set with the word Ravnica in it.
Ikoria is not a faction set. It has a wedge subtheme, but it is only there because of it's set associated Commander decks. WOTC could have easily made Ikoria a pure "make monsters" set, and it wouldn't have been any different with or without a Wedge subtheme. The Wedge subtheme is only there because of Commander, and I highly doubt those who do not care about Commander are demanding a Wedge set.
Here is another reason why I think Commander has an influence on the Spring sets. The idea of the major commander release. Why does a major commander release even exist? Why not have each set come with 3 Commander decks? It used to make sense to have a major Commander release because back then, those things came out once a year, not to mention that ever since WOTC removed the cheap Commander deck option, all Commander decks now have the same number of new cards, regardless if those decks are your major release commander decks or not.
Either do away with the major Commander release, or keep the major Commander release, but that release has to go with a Core Set.
Every set is a faction set, but only sets like Ravnica, Alara, Khans of Tarkir, Strixhaven and Streets of New Capenna have the whole idea of factions in the front and center, to the point that each of these factions have names. Look at every single set with Theme boosters out there. Which sets have theme boosters that aren't just your typical mono color?
Then you have Ikoria. Ikoria has your mono color theme booster, and wedge color commander decks. Each deck has specific themes that fit the Ikoria themes and mechanics. I remember one was all about keyword mechanics, and the another was all about the mutate mechanic. The storyline of Ikoria did not have to mention that the Commander Decks were wedged colors, like I don't know, the triomes, but it did.
So I will keep asking this, why does Ikoria have the Wedge color triomes, and why does Strixhaven and New Capenna have non-mono color theme boosters, unlike every other set?
You saying every set is a faction set is like saying every set is an artifact set, or a graveyard set, or a horror set just because there are zombies in Mirrodin or Vampires in Zendikar. I forgot to mention the prerelease kits. Why does Strixhaven and New Capenna have faction based prerelease kits while for the other sets, everybody gets the same prerelease kit?
I am repeating the same thing because YOU are not understanding what I am saying. There is absolutely no way Capenna is designed, story, gameplay, without them thinking that the Commander Decks are Shard colors.
If this is all you have to come up with, you've lost the argument.
The color identities of the commander decks of Ikoria, Strixhaven, and Capenna are predetermined, and it has an influence on the set. The color identities of the commander decks for Zendikar Rising, Kaldheim, D&D, Innistrad Midnight Hunt, Innistrad Crimson Vow, and Kamigawa Neon Dynasty is not predetermined, and does not influence the set. Talking about every set having factions does not address that the Commander Decks colors are limiting what the spring set could be. Sure you can have more design space if the Commander Decks are predetermined to be mono color, or 2 color, but design space gets more limited if you start going 3 color. The Major Commander release, provided it stays the course of 5 decks, all of which must be Mono, Enemy, Ally, Shard, Wedge, or 4 color, can't always be mono, or the 2 color kind all the time, as mono and 2 color has more design space to not make the set look like a Ravnica/Alara/Tarkir/Strixhaven/Capenna reskin.
If people, standard or commander players, want shard support, I am pretty sure that making an Alara reskin isn't the only way to do it. If it is, it just shows that if the Commander is predermined to be Shard colors, the set will be stuck being an Alara reskin.
Some of us also want the Major Commander release to not be from one plane, which is why I suggested bringing back Core Sets, in name only, because they do not belong to one plane. Did Core Sets really not sell just because it didn't belong to one plane? I doubt it. The core sets I was talking about is not the same core sets you have seen. They are not catered to newer players. They are built like the the other 3 expansions in the year, just that they have more reprints, and they don't have a plane associated with it. They also come with the Major Commander release. That's all there is. The entire product line would be Core Set 2023, Commander 2023, Challenger Decks 2023, Arena Starter Kit 2023. That's what I am trying to get at, instead of having limited design space, well in terms of story anyway, as to what a plane to be because it has to fit the predetermined color identities of 5 commander decks.
I also said that precons based on color, over theme, usually come from sets like Alara or Tarkir. Since the colors are predetermined for the main commander releases, most likely we will see Ravnica style sets. WOTC will have to be very creative to not make spring sets seem like reskins of one another.
The only things you said are:
1. All sets are faction sets. You fail to realize I am referring to the Ravnica style faction sets where the factions are divided by color, and the themes and mechanics are assigned to each, as opposed to a you divide by themes, and the mechanics and color are assigned to it. Not only that, the ravnica style set factions are heavily marketed, and the stories behind Ravnica, Alara, Tarkir, Strixhaven, and Capenna revolove around those factions. The other sets don't.
2. You only have 2 or 3 data points. I gave you more.
3. Those data points don't count. You didn't explain why.
4. People like color based faction sets. Are you talking about liking the cards or liking the fact that the plane is divided into color based factions?
5. You hijacked and derailed the thread. You are the one who triggered it because I have to explain everything to you.
At least with Capenna, I have explained why Capenna is your ravnica style faction set, and that's because it was the only way to be able to have the Commander Decks be shard based, hence why the Commander Decks have an influence on the set, while normally, it should be the other way around. It is the spring sets with the major commander release that has the deck affect the set. We won't know why for 8 of 8 times, that all 5 deck commander releases are one color combination type, such as shard, or wedge, or mono, or enemy, or ally, but that is the case, but nope, you disregard that data. Once you disregarded that data, you never refuted anything. All your posts initially were about factions, without even figuring out what kind of faction sets I was talking about. This all starts with world building. Are you assigning things and places to a color, or are you making that place and thing, and from it's characteristics, you assign the color that fits the theme of that color. Strixhaven and Capenna is the former, and I am talking about the former.
All your posts were also with regards to gameplay only, and I already mentioned that you never talked about storyline or world building, while my claims that Commander is affecting Ikoria, Strixhaven, and Capenna is based mostly on story. Ikoria's triomes, Strixhaven Schools, and Capenna Crime Families are story based.
The Major commander release is usually the avenue in which the desires of the commander players are heard. We want shard commanders, we want 4 color commanders etc. The Commander decks has to tie in with the spring set, so if the commander players wishes want to be heard, let's say they want shard commanders, then the Commander Decks have to be shard, and since it has to tie in with the theme of the set, the set also has to be shard.
So why not have the major commander release tie in with a set for Commander players? Commander legends. The spring set can be just like the fall, summer and winter set, where there are 2 commander decks. Besides, there is always an extra set that comes with commander decks. We had 5 standard sets in 2021. 2020 had Commander Legends that came with 2 decks. This year we will have 4 decks for the new Commander Legends set. Have the "we want all shards" decks tie in with Commander Legends, and have the 4 deck mix of shard, wedge, mono, ally, enemy, be tied to the standard spring set.
I never said that sets were built around set associated precons. Just the 3 latest spring sets, and not the entire set is built from the commander decks, just some influence of the commander decks have on the set. Usually when precons are made, you don't assign color to them first. The theme is assigned to it, then the colors. Ikoria, Strixhaven, and Capenna Commander decks have its colors preassigned, so the themes and mechanics have to match those colors.
So Kamigawa, Innistrad and D&D commander decks sold poorly compared to Strixhaven? I guess people like the fact that there are 5 decks in the set instead of 2, then if that was the case, why not have every set have 5 decks? The ones from Kamigawa, Innistrad and D&D are built the same way. Same number of new cards, same price.
It's not junk data as long as the idea of a major commander release still exists. If it didn't exist, then yeah, maybe WOTC wanted to make a shard set, but I believe Capenna is a shard set because Commander 2022 is a set of 5 shard decks, that is if there are still major commander releases.
Have what? The product I listed are core sets with a major commander release, getting rid of major commander releases, and have the spring set be just like the fall, winter, and summer sets, or having the major commander release tied to commander legends, and not a standard set. I fail to see how this would make any less money. Same or more commander decks. You have not explained whether people hate core sets because of the lack of a plane, or is it because the set is not as complex and has bad cards.
Ikoria Triomes
Strixhaven Schools
Capenna Crime Families
A combination of all the major Commander precons and the set associated precons would suggest it is way easier to just make a Ravnica style set just to make sure that, in Capenna's case, all 5 Commander Decks are shard colors because as history suggests, with major commander releases, and with no exceptions, so far, all must be either mono, enemy, ally, shard, wedge, or 4 color. There is never a mix of any of the 6 I mentioned.
Then why dedicate one set to be a major commander release? Why can't all 4 sets have 3 Commander decks each? Why not have a dedicated Commander Legends set with the major Commander release instead of tying it with a standard set? Some of us don't like the idea that all 5 major Commander release legendaries are from the same plane. I do have this to say. If you bought one deck from each set in the year, technically all the characters from the 4 decks you bought would have been from different planes. It's too bad we won't see obscure characters from a plane we will never visit, or an old character.
Explain to me, why has every Commander deck release that had 5 decks been all shards, wedges, ally, mono, enemy, or 4 color, and not any combination? Why?
Capenna didn't have to be all shards and have a shard theme It could be about something else, and have themes for 5 decks. The 5 decks could be mono white, blue green, blue black red, white black red green, and 5 color deck. That's how the years with 4 Commander Decks were, and pretty much every time we had Theme Decks. Even with Intro Packs, it wasn't always all enemy or ally color, although the intro pack were all color balanced, that is one set didn't have intro packs featuring more of one color over the other.
If people like uniform all wedge, or all shard major commander releases instead of the 4 deck mix of 2 color, or 3 color decks we had for Commander 2017, 2018, and 2019, then wouldn't the decks, let's take Commander 2022, and it being all shards, then be preassigned as shard decks? Therefore, if the Commander Decks being shard decks are based on themes and mechanics of the set, then wouldn't the set have to be a shard set?
If there is a demand for nephilim decks for Commander 2023, then it would have an influence on it's set being a nephilim set, or a nephilim subtheme. If the Commander players wanted shard commander decks for the major commander release, but Standard players didn't want a reskin of Alara for their spring set, how would you create that set?
You always say that my data of using all the set associated precons and every commander deck released don't mean a thing. I used that data to suggest to you why Capenna is all Shards. Maybe people like it when it's all shards instead of being a mix. As for the set associated precons. It is shown that if you want your decks to have preassigned colors, you are better off making Ravnica style sets. In a set like Scars of Mirrodin, the themes of the 5 intro packs are Myr, Metalcraft, Proliferate, Artifact destruction, and Infect. You can't just pick color combinations, let's say, all ally color, and hope all 5 of those themes fit. The point is to showcase the themes as best as possible. For a set like Khans of Tarkir, your themes for the 5 decks are Abzan, Jeskai, Sultai, Mardu, and Temur. Abzan is Black Green White, so it's intro pack is black green white. We can reverse this and say if we want a Black Green White intro pack, then we can insert the Abzan theme into it. Unlike if we tried it with Scars of Mirrodin, and took black red for example, that color combination may not best showcase any of the themes compared to if it was whatever the 5 intro packs used.
Look at past major commander releases that had 5 decks. Wedge, Shard, Mono, Enemy, 4 color, 3 years of 4 decks, Wedge, Enemy, Shard. I mention shards because that is what the new capenna commander decks are. Shards. WOTC could have made a non-ravnica like set, and created 5 decks with a mixture of Mono, Enemy, Ally, Shard, Wedge, 4 color, or 5 color decks, that fit the themes and mechanics of the set. Kind of like Lorwyn. It has a mono white deck, a blue white deck, a black red deck, a 5 color deck, and a black green deck.
I mention the number of new cards in the commander deck, and the price because there is no difference between a major commander deck released in spring compared to the ones released in winter. Tell me. What is so different between the Strixhaven commander decks and the commander decks of the d&d set, both innistrad sets, and kamigawa, in terms of number of new cards and the price of each deck? None. So why even have major commander releases?
You also don't understand. I never said replace the major commander release with a core set. Either discontinue the idea of a major commander release, the ones that affect the set and plane they are aligned with, or bring back core sets while keeping the idea of a major commander release.
By discontinuing the major commander release, each set can have 3 commander decks. The idea of saying that all 5 decks for Commander 2023 is 4 color, or mono color, or wedge color, would be gone.
Bring back the idea of a core set, in this case, a set not associated with a plane means your major commander release don't have to have 5 legendaries from one plane. Not only that, you can say that all 5 decks can be shard decks without having the idea of shard colors in the world building and story of the associated plane.
Why can't I use historical trends of the annual commander decks and every set associated precon? The spring commander decks traces its lineage to both the annual commander decks, as referenced in Gavin's article saying the annual commander decks changed from August to April of each year, and the set associated precons, as referenced in that same article stating planeswalker decks are replaced by Commander decks.
A third option other than turn the spring set into a core set or get rid of the idea of a major commander release is to have all 4 standard sets release 2 commander decks, while the major commander release releases with an annual commander legends set. That way, the descendant of Commander 2013 and the descendant of intro packs of the spring set of that year won't be the same product, but 2 separate products.
The major commander release, and a standard set with an associated plane needs to stay separate. I don't want spring sets be limited to certain kinds of sets or certain kinds of planes just to make it work with the major Commander release.
The results of the influence of the major commander releases to the stories of he spring sets are Ikoria's triomes, Strixhaven schools, and Capenna's crime families. There is absolutely no way that WOTC is thinking to make a shard set without thinking that Commander 2022 is shards.
You still haven't answered whether people like multicolor faction sets because of the cards or because of the story.
You can have a set similar to Capenna, except that it is a core set, set in no particular plane, and the 5 legendary creatures from each commander deck be from different planes. All cards functionally identical except references to capenna are removed and replaced with references to various other planes. Would people buy this set? All that's changed is the lack of plane and how the story is told. All cards would be identical.
That's not what I said. Every set associated precon has decks designed with the set in mind. This isn't the case with the last 3 spring sets. There is some influence that the Commander decks have, usually the color identity, on the set because they are the major Commander release.
What I want WOTC to do is discontinue the major Commander release, and have each set release 3 Commander decks instead, or have the spring set be a core set.
Getting rid of the major commander release means that the decks can be built like every single set associated precon, where the deck is based on the set, and the set isn't influenced by the precons.
Turning the spring set into a core set means that the major commander release won't have legendaries all from the same plane.
As it stands, the spring set is affecting the major commander release, and the major commander release is affecting the spring set.
Kamigawa Neon Dynasty Commander decks lineage is the Planeswalker decks, Intro Packs, and Theme decks that came before them. Capenna comnander decks lineage is the same plus the annual Commander decks that came before. WOTC needs to decide if they are set associated precons or a major Commander release, not both. The reason we have shard theme Capenna is because 2022 major Comnander decks have to be all shards.
Why even have a major commander release when all comnander decks have the same number of new cards regardless of which set it is from?
It made sense 2 years ago because the major commander decks had more new cards and cost more than the non, major ones. Now there is no difference.
Maybe the spring 2023 set won't be influenced by its commander decks because WOTC realizes that there is no point in major commander releases anymore.
Set associated precons are precons that take a theme or mechanic and build a deck around it.
New Capenna Commander decks traces its lineage with the annual Commander release started with Commander 2013. It also traces its lineage with every single set associated precon that came before.
Ikoria, Strixhaven, and New Capenna Commander decks is trying to be both the annual major Commander release and the set's associated precon, when it should only be one of the two.
My belief is that WOTC decided to have 2022's Commander decks be shard, so that means to have the themes and mechanics of the set make sense with the set associated precon, the set has to be shard themed. There is zero chance that the Commander decks have zero influence on what the set is.
Then again, it is easy to refute my claims saying that my data does not count, especially when you probably don't follow precon releases for the past 15 to 20 years like I have.
I am right here agreeing with the complaints that the new Capenna set is affecting the 2022 major commander release, while at the same time, I state that the 2022 major Commander release is affecting what the set here. You then jump in and started the derailment by stating that every set was a faction set, when only Ravnica, Alara, Tarkir, Strixhaven, and Capenna are faction sets, much so that it is baked into the story.
Capenna is a spring set with the major Commander release. I am having discussions over "Commander 2022" having an effect over what Capenna is, and pretty much the same goes for every spring set. Either WOTC has to make a colored faction set, with colored factions as its main theme, or they, through the world building, have to mention the color identities of the Commander decks.
Commander 2022 are shard decks.
Take the idea of the shard and build a set around it. Add themes and mechanics to those shards.
Using those themes and mechanics from those shards, build the commander decks.
There is no way that WOTC suddenly wanted to make New Capenna a shard set without thinking about the 2022 major Commander release.
You keep on saying 3 data points. Are you going to say someone is definitely, for sure, wrong just because they say that there is going to be 5 set associated Commander Decks in the Spring 2023 set?
Every time WOTC has released 5 Commander decks at once, all of them are either Mono color, enemy color, wedge, shard, or 4 color. There was never a mix of any of these. That is 8 data points.
Commander 2011
Commander 2013
Commander 2014
Commander 2015
Commander 2016
Ikoria Commander
Strixhaven Commander
Streets of New Capenna Commander.
There are 14 data points of sets based on factions whose precons are themed after the factions.
Ravnica City of Guilds
Guildpact
Dissension
Shards of Alara
Conflux
Return to Ravnica
Gatecrash
Dragon's Maze
Khans of Tarkir
Dragons of Tarkir
Guilds of Ravnica
Ravnica Allegiance
Strixhaven
Streets of New Capenna
WOTC could keep the same themes used to make the Commander Decks from Ikoria to the current set, and have them be Theme Decks, Intro Packs or Planeswalker decks. Likewise, they could also keep the same themes used to make the Theme Decks, Intro Packs, and Planeswalker Decks, and make them into Commander Decks. With that in mind, as long as there are 5 Commander decks in the set, for some reason, they have to be all of same color combination type, such as all ally color, all wedges etc, and since these decks are tied to sets, and with what the Theme Decks, Intro Packs, Planeswalker Deck, and set associated Commander Decks themes are, it would be safe to assume that because every Spring set is associated with the Major Commander release and every Commander release with 5 decks has to be only one type of color combinations, such as all wedges, as shown by 8 data points not 3, it is easier to make a faction based set, like the Guilds of Ravnica, Shards of Alara, Schools of Strixhaven, Khans of Tarkir, or Crime Families of Capenna.
If you were to make a set knowing that the set associated Commander decks had to be all 5 shard based colors, there is no way you would create a set where there is no reference to any shard colors anywhere. Likewise, if you created a set, and you wanted the set associated Commander decks to best showcase the set, like Theme Decks and Intro Packs did before, history has shown that unless the set is color themed, chances are you are going to get a mix of mono, 2 color, 3 color, ally, wedge, shard, or enemy color decks. Shards of Alara was a Shard set, and it's intro packs are based on each shard because that is what the set is. For New Capenna, WOTC knows that the Commander Decks are shard based, so they had to build the set, gameplay, world, storyline, with a shard theme, or else the Commander Decks won't fit. That is how it is going to be every spring, and that is with using every single Commander Deck release in existence, that came in groups of 5, and how WOTC released every set associated precon ever.
If as you say, we are getting a shard set because people wanted shard cards, WOTC could have achieved the same result, and released a set of 5 Commander Decks similar to how they did in 2013, and release a Core set alongside it with some Shard sub themes, but no, there has to be a plane attached to it with heavy shard themes.
I realized that all you said had no mention of the storyline. It's all gameplay.
The idea of a plane only makes sense in a story perspective, not gameplay. If you care about gameplay, like what most of your arguments are all about, then it doesn't matter which cards are from which plane, but because Strixhaven's Commander decks have to be enemy color, there has to be an enemy color theme in the story. In other sets, the idea of colored factions isn't as pronounced as in Strixhaven or New Capenna. Ikoria Triomes, Strixhaven schools, and New Capenna crime families are story elements. These elements exist because the Commander Decks have to be certain colors. The Ikoria, Strixhaven, and New Capenna Commander decks being all wedge, enemy color, and shard colors respectively is the same reason why Commander 2011 is all wedge, 2013 is all shard, 2014 is all mono color, 2015 is all enemy color, and 2016 is all colors but one.
My idea to have the core set coincide with the main commander release is to have the story focus on 5 characters, not on a single plane, so each plane's storyline concept won't be a carbon copy of, here are 5 places or factions, with their color identities. You'd also have to see that with the popularity of Commander, the idea of wanting a Wedge or Shard set would increase, but that is only to get the multicolor cards.
So you're telling me that a Core set filled with shard or wedge cards is not as desirable as a plane focused on shards or wedges? Are people demanding shard and wedge cards, or a plane that is shard or wedge themed?
If they have done commander decks before, not related to color based factions, then why are the Spring Commander releases have sets that are tied to the color based factions? Any set could have themes to make 5 decks, but WOTC chooses not to do it. Ravnica had 8 multicolor faction sets, with no Commander decks, but they had Theme Decks, Intro Packs, and Planeswalker decks. Bet you don't know what the themes and mechanics of these decks are all about do you.
So far, it is 3 for 3. It is going to be 4 for 4, 5 for 5, and then 6 for 6 and so on. When we get a Spring set that has Wedge, Ally, Enemy, Mono, or Shard Commander decks, and the set has nothing to do with what the colors of the Commander Decks are, while holding onto the idea of a Major Commander release, then my argument won't hold true. Commander's rules relies on color, you know, the color identity? It would make the most sense that a major commander release's set would have something to do with color.
I doubt that when designing Planar Chaos, WOTC is saying, "let's make a wedge set". If that's the case, it's 4 theme decks would be all Wedge colored, but they're not. Usually the Theme Decks and Intro Packs showcase the themes and mechanics of the set, and if the set is Wedge focused, we'd get Wedge precons. Look at Khans of Tarkir.
All I am saying is, just like Ikoria, Planar Chaos, or any other set not named Alara, Tarkir, Strixhaven, or Capenna, that you can have a color theme to it, without having the entire set's focus be on any number of colored factions. Some of us want to go back to the old Commander precons where the 5 characters have nothing to do with each other. I don't want specific planes to be carbon copies of Ravnica, just change the fact that they aren't guilds but instead they are schools, shards, clans, or crime families.
Let's say I am obsessed with set associated precons, and I pretty much own almost every one of them starting from Nemesis, with the exception of Prophecy, Planeshift, Lorwyn Shadowmoor block, Alara Block, and Zendikar block. I know that for each deck they are based on themes and mechanics from the set. It is no different with the set associated Commander decks. Kamigawa's Commander decks are all about vehicles and modify. So far, with the spring sets being tied to the major commander release, we have color faction sets. It as if WOTC decided that the decks are shard color, and they have to build the set in such a way to have a shard theme, or some sort of subtheme. The easiest way to make sure that your precons are these specific colors, and also be thematically linked to the set is to make the set be color focused. The Commander decks, or intro packs, or theme decks, must all have ally colors, so the easiest way is to make a Ravnica like set.
For color based factions, there is a difference between starting out with one or more colors, and assigning things, places, or gameplay mechanics to it, as opposed to having the gameplay mechanic, thing, or place be assigned a color. An example of the former is anything whose major theme is based on color, and the latter is Innistrad's vampires being red black, or a elves of Lorwyn being black green.
So far, with Strixhaven and New Capenna, the concept is, divide the factions into colors, and put organize places, things, or gameplay mechanics into these colors. If the Commander Decks of a major release have to be certain colors, such as all shard, wedge, ally color, mono color, or enemy color, it would be easy to just make a color based set, and I don't see WOTC changing from this formula. Ikoria had wedge commander decks, but their themes weren't Wedge based. The Symbiotic Swarm isn't a Black Green White matters deck. It is a keyword counters matters deck, or how enhanced evolution isn't a black green blue matters deck, but a mutate matters deck. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that keyword counters is not limited to the Black Green White wedge, and mutate is not limited to the Black Green Blue wedge. With Strixhaven, whatever them that deck is is is pretty much contained within that one school that deck represents.
As I said, loads of theme decks, intro packs, and Planeswalker decks. Usually, they pick a theme from the set, build a deck, and pick the colors that best suit the theme, but when you have to have the Commander decks be a specific color, you kind of have to build a color based set to make those Commander decks work, and I don't see how WOTC can do any different.
All I'm saying is, with New Capenna, WOTC could have made it not about color, and instead be like Kamigawa, or Innistrad. Pick 5 themes from the set, and build decks around it, and then assign the color of that deck that makes the most sense, instead of saying that the deck has to be certain colors. WOTC has done it for years with Intro Packs and Theme Decks, but why would they do that? Those kinds of sets and Commander precons are reserved for the non-major Commander releases in the Summer, Fall, and Winter.
Every new plane is going in the Spring is going to be wasted because something about it has to line up with the fact that the Commander release has to be a Wedge, Shard, Ally color, Enemy color, or Mono color set. It isn't to say that WOTC has to make all ally color decks or wedge decks. They have done so in 2017 to 2019, but for Commander 2020 and beyond, they wanted to go back to all wedge, all shard etc. Here's my prediction. Spring 2023 set is a world with discrimination where people discriminate against people who don't use their color of mana, and everybody in that world is born with the ability to use one color of mana. Spring 2024 set is a plane where you have your allied colors and each ally color is a job in the world.
Just think. What do you think is easier if the Spring 2023 major Commander release has to be allied color. Make an Allied color matters set, or make a set, and hope the themes and mechanics happen to line up with the allied colors? Why would WOTC want to do anything the hard way? They couldn't even come up with 5 themes to make 5 Kamigawa Neon Dynasty Commander Decks.
You keep on saying this is a conspiracy, but ever since set associated precons existed, they are meant to show the themes and mechanics of the set, and if a precon has to be a specific color, like Red White, there is no choice but to make a red white based theme in the set just so the precon can fit that theme. Strixhaven is a enemy color school theme, because if it was anything else, it would be difficult to ensure that all 5 commander decks would be enemy color. This is even more so if the decks have to be wedge, shard, or nephilim colors. Any set associated precons with Wedge, or Shard, is a set in which the Wedge of Shard matters. Years of Theme Decks and Intro Packs suggest that it is kind of difficult to have all ally or enemy color decks in the set without the set being color based.
Cheap Commander Deck? Have you heard of Zendikar Rising and Kaldheim?
Just by saying Ikoria being a Wedge set, much like Strixhaven being a Enemy Color set, or New Capenna being a shard set, you have proven to me that every single Spring set, so as long as we have this whole notion of a major Commander release, that every spring set will either be a Wedge set, Shard set, Ally color set, Enemy Color set, or Mono Color matters set. No Enchantment, Graveyard, Legendary, Artifact, Basic, High mana cost, Low mana cost, keyword abilities, or whatever anyone could think of, that has nothing to do with color, matters set.
Usually my argument that Commander has an influence on the Spring sets would be shot down because Ikoria wasn't a Wedge set, and here you are, saying it is.
Planar chaos, having a wedge theme, because of 5 cards, does not make it a wedge set, much like how Ravnica isn't a 4 color set.
You haven't explained why these color matters sets, and let's say Ikoria is a wedge set, like you say, is released in the Spring, and not in the Fall, Summer, or Winter. There are indeed 4 options, so why just the one option, and not the other three?
Why are these sets in the Spring? Don't you think it is because of Commander that the idea of Wedge, Shard, Ally color, Enemy Color, and Mono Color matters sets are highly requested? Wouldn't that mean that the Spring sets are the way they are because of Commander? You also have no idea what a faction set is. A faction set is a set that being in a sub group matters more than everything else. Odyssey has the 5 factions. The Order, the Cephalids, the Cabal, the Pardic Mountains, and the Krosan Forest. The idea of these factions is very minimal, as Odyssey is a graveyard matters set. Ravnica's factions are all front and center to the point that that is the entire theme of every set with the word Ravnica in it.
Ikoria is not a faction set. It has a wedge subtheme, but it is only there because of it's set associated Commander decks. WOTC could have easily made Ikoria a pure "make monsters" set, and it wouldn't have been any different with or without a Wedge subtheme. The Wedge subtheme is only there because of Commander, and I highly doubt those who do not care about Commander are demanding a Wedge set.
Here is another reason why I think Commander has an influence on the Spring sets. The idea of the major commander release. Why does a major commander release even exist? Why not have each set come with 3 Commander decks? It used to make sense to have a major Commander release because back then, those things came out once a year, not to mention that ever since WOTC removed the cheap Commander deck option, all Commander decks now have the same number of new cards, regardless if those decks are your major release commander decks or not.
Either do away with the major Commander release, or keep the major Commander release, but that release has to go with a Core Set.
Then you have Ikoria. Ikoria has your mono color theme booster, and wedge color commander decks. Each deck has specific themes that fit the Ikoria themes and mechanics. I remember one was all about keyword mechanics, and the another was all about the mutate mechanic. The storyline of Ikoria did not have to mention that the Commander Decks were wedged colors, like I don't know, the triomes, but it did.
So I will keep asking this, why does Ikoria have the Wedge color triomes, and why does Strixhaven and New Capenna have non-mono color theme boosters, unlike every other set?
You saying every set is a faction set is like saying every set is an artifact set, or a graveyard set, or a horror set just because there are zombies in Mirrodin or Vampires in Zendikar. I forgot to mention the prerelease kits. Why does Strixhaven and New Capenna have faction based prerelease kits while for the other sets, everybody gets the same prerelease kit?