Any commander with evasion or self-protection can end the game. If you have specific types of land-wipes (like devastation) you can typically float excess mana and stick your commander for easy wins. This will depend on what sort of stuff your opponents play, as they can also float a white mana to path/swords your commander, or unless you play specifically obliterate, they will just counter your spell after you've floated a bunch of mana.
If you can make a bunch of mana (or run rituals like mana geyser), then decree of annihilation with floating mana followed by commander is almost always an insta-win, since the decree exiles and removes answers from hand and graveyard recursion routes. I've used this with generic mono-red junk like rorix bladewing as a commander & win-con before and it works well, currently doing this with Drakuseth, Maw of Flames. Random cards like geosurge end up being randomly good here.
Past that I would actually recommend running a planeswalker as a win-con instead of a creature. They tend to be harder to answer and can often times protect themselves. If you are a dedicated land-destruction deck then you likely run the land-wipes that destroy more than just lands (like devastation), so win-cons like planeswalkers are ideal.
In the end although, I would although suggest adding this sort of tactic as a secondary or back-up plan to a decks main win-con. Unless your deck is dedicated to this tactic, this archetype of deck fails to counterspells and often times isn't capable of rebuilding fast enough compared to a generic etb-value deck so you just end up king-making. I love MLD but it is pretty rough to make it a serious and consistent strategy.
Your list looks fun, but I'm curious why you're choosing Belzenlok? If you're playing him for the fun/uniqueness that's cool, but if your goal is a card-draw demon then I would suggest kothophed, soul hoarder. That guy gives even strip mine more upside. I've had very good luck running him in various pestilence style builds.
If we're set on Belzenlok then perhaps boots and blackblade reforged to set up a 1 to 2 hit kill. His trample is very relevant. If you're meta is weak on spot removal then hatred is always fun.
Draw5 from promise of power is strong so why not also moonlight bargain - it's great when you have some reanimator cards already, and is instant.
Regarding Yarok, the Desecrated and something like mosswort bridge, I can see that the hideaway land will end up with two cards under it, but what happens when you activate it?
Do we choose just one of the two cards to cast, are both avaliable to be cast on the same activation, or does nothing work since the land specifies "the" as in singular card hidden away?
Eddects from the command zone probably need to stop. Even if there isn't anything too broken yet, having effects from a non-interactive zone seems odd and unbalanced.
What would be nice to see are plane themed decks. The color choice may be an issue, but a dragon spirit or myojin tribal kanagawa theme, artifact synergy kaladesh theme, graveyard inistrad theme, planeswalker ravnica theme, phyrexian & thran domonaria theme, upper class goblin mercadian theme, etc. Each deck has the unique cards in it designed in a way to tell the planes story and history.
Next to that I would love for development to flesh out mono color cards more, using the commander specific cards to really push what each color is supposed to represent. I'm talking about enchantments and spells and whatnot with full chroma in their mana cost. This is likely the best way to help some of the issues specific mono colored decks run in to.
With that in mind I do like the idea of the multi-commander option to not represent different deck archetypes. It tends to make precons 3x bad decks in one, pulling synergy apart and weakening the out-of-box precon experiance. Making all 3 commanders fit the same strategy would be ideal, especially if all three had a slightly different use in the deck. That would probably increase box sales instead of people buying just the commander from a precon as a single.
Recent years this has been getting better... sometimes. It's difficult to not make artifact synergy commanders work together, but then there was that jund deck
Menery's name goes back in the formats history but he didn't "bring us the game." His original work for the game was pro tour league stuff.
I've been trying to keep my comments specifically about the banlist, not the integrity of the people who influence it. Believe me, I have a strong opinion on menery. I've played with him on two different occasions at larger events and would have absolutely had more fun at any neighboring table.
@bobthefunny the exact wording I said is "when the pilot is slow at math." I'm not sure how you took that and simplified it to "people are bad at math."
From my experiance, from multiple playgroups and public events ranging large to small, with power level ranging from 2 to 10, the most common complaint about engine is when the pilot is slow at figuring out how to deploy spells. This is easily fixed with either help or practice. Banning a card that may be too complex for people to enjoy honestly just dumbs down the format in a way it doesn't need to be.
I'm pretty much done with this topic. My main group has already adjusted the banlist to our own level. If relevant information as to why someone decided to unban painter surfaces then I'll revisit. Until then there isn't anything to gain here.
Another take & re-work on a MLD (mass land destruction) mono-red brew. The main idea is to float a bunch of mana, wipe out all the lands, then land a game-ending threat (commander or walker). This is best done with other colors, for example Mogis, God of Slaughter can come out early and is resilient to most removal effects, and can be a long-term win-con. Limiting to mono-red is just for my enjoyment.
The deck is a little old but has been benched for a few months. Originally it was my old Rorix Bladewing deck retuned to be MLD, since the deck ran rituals & fast mana to rush out a 4-turn clock in the air. More recently I've been running this with Lu Bu, Master-at-Arms for horse-related laughs. But now the new Drakuseth, Maw of Flames is being tested. A common(ish) issue for this strategy is having the commander (or win-con) answered after blowing up the lands, and Drakuseth is a pseudo-answer to creature ramp and also the annoying Baleful Strix that may ruin our plan. She gives the same clock speed as rorix (7-power 3 hit instead of 6-haste 4-hit), and that artwork is sweeeeeeeeeet.
Next to the dragon we have a pile of walkers that will hopefully get us further than an opponent while possibly developing into their own win-condition post MLD effect. Again this is where other colors make this strategy much better, where something as simple as Liliana of the Dark Realms can take over a game if everyones' lands+creatures are wiped. They do although tend to be the inevitable win-con as I can often times cast them before a big land-wipe spell.
Things I've been working on / playing with / testing in this deck;
There is no ramp! Since the deck does want to destroy all permanents, relying on artifact ramp is one option, but this build we are running without. There is also the random chance of null rod showing up in a sol ring opening hand, which is always funny. Since we are limited in the speed of which we can resolve wipe+win-con, we have a pile of semi-hateful cheap cards that we want to sparingly play out early to annoy & slow the opponents while we make land-fall up to our combo, all while trying to kill off as many creatures as possible.
This deck fails in many ways. The main way it fails is when we see too many overly-focused hate cards that are irrelevant to the game (Pyroblast against non-blue opponents for example)). This although is what happens when we decide to stick to mono-red and not play fast-mana, card draw, or tutors. The second way it fails is when an opponent finds an answer to our win-con and recovers faster than we can manage. This nearly king-makes the winner of the game, and is where people tend to complain about the strategy. The third most common way this deck fails is when it runs in to too many redundant hate cards (like too many artifact destruction spells when there isn't anything to blow up), or by tax effects that are irrelevant at the time. This could be fixed if I squeeze in a faithless looting package.
There are some questionable cards I'm still running. Meekstone tends to be answered long before I'm ready to push out my commander, but if I don't have a walker available post-wipe then I may lock myself. Much like winter orb it is a card that tends to sit in-hand until the most opportune moment.
The best cards to see in the deck are mana geyser (typically accelerates our game-plan to turn-5), and decree of annihilation (exile all hands + 'yards is very relevant).
Disclaimer for those who dislike MLD - Please make sure you're not confusing MLD as a strategy vs MLD from someone who just likes to troll games. There is a difference from someone trying to destroy your resources while putting out a win-con vs someone that wants to drag a game on for a few hours and plays Shahrazad style crap. The goal of this deck is to win, and it can do so by removing your resources.
Engine is just one of many enablers in the game. It's a strong enabler but not at all near the best enabler.
The issue it causes players is when the pilot is slow at math, not what the card adds to the game. The fix to this problem is helping your friend, not banning a card.
There are many casual non-storm/combo decks that use engine fairly. The "fun-suck" is when those decks get weakened by random bans and drop below an acceptable playable strength. I wasn't the only person in my playgroup that had a casual deck that uses engine to untap a fun commander with a fun tap ability.
<Mod snip> -Ad hominem attacks are not acceptable on mtgs
I have yet to see or hear a single good excuse for unbanning painter. There are other cards on the banlist that can be set free. The before mentioned panoptic mirror, which is terribly slow compared to what kefnit+turns is capable of doing now. If they want to keep the list short, then unban braids, because banning a card using mtgo as an excuse was silly. Why not gifts ungiven (because intuition isn't), biorhythm when we have shaman of forgotten ways, or coalition victory which fails to a creature removal spell or strip mine and we have approach the second sun which is far easier to control?
Really why did they choose painter when there are multiple other safer options.
That "just win" issue is why I don't mind seeing iona on the field, even if it's locking me out. If the player actually spent the mana to slam it, good for them for making it that far, but they could have resolved a bigger threat that could have ended the game. Same is true if they spent the resources to trick it into play. It could have been a game-ending card but instead it's a medium annoyance that doesn't end the game.
My playgroup isn't cedh, and while we do have competitive decks, iona isn't good enough for any of them. Our deck strength average is around a 6 and iona would never be good enough at our table. It truly is a medium-to-bad trap card. It's a learning experience that is eventually unsleeved and forgotten about. But hey this is what they think is a ban-worthy card.
This argument about running colorless answers is a joke. all is dust, ugin, the spirit dragon, perilous vault, and oblivion stone are better cards than iona. Others like duplicant and spine may even be synergistic for the deck, because most artifact decks I've seen run those too. If you're not already playing those, then either your meta is too quick and there isn't an iona, your meta is too weak and there still isn't an iona, or your choosing to not play obviously good cards that can answer any number of threats.
I love when modern bans occur because there are solid reasoning and you can actually follow the thought process as to why something was banned. For example bridge was just banned to tone down hogaack. Doesn't kill the deck, does affect dredge to the point that it's not overshadowed by hogaack, and the degenerate potential turn-1 wins from neoform were left alone because development looked at the % of players actually using the deck and its performance. Not the complaints but the performance.
Now then we have edh bans where painter was unbanned by someone who complains about combos in edh, and build-around cards like engine are banned when if he really understood how those decks worked then he could have just banned dramatic reversal - a card that only exists in the format to be abused.
Maybe he was just terrified that people would break urza (and to a lesser extent golos, tireless pilgrim) with engine. I'm so glad that infinite mana commanders can't be broken still in this format with other combos that cost less mana investment and card density to start up.
Well as a mono-red and rakdos fanboy, I have too many red and black cards to possibly consider what I like the most, so ibcould do a top 20 for those. On the other hand I rarely play green and white. Whenever I do I simply must playback few specific cards due to how much I love them.
From the two cards you've mentioned I'm assuming your goal is infinite mana. There are not many infinite mana sinks like duskwatch but temur sabertooth works well with whatever green etb stuff. If you have the biggest creature then your Selvala, Heart of the Wilds will let you draw your deck.
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard goes nicely with your staff but his lines tend to make for a different deck.
A while ago I ran a grixis tribal djinn deck, and the most memorable game that has stood out from my playgroup has always been when I had to rely on an army of Emberwilde Caliph from rite of replication
Look, whatever reason is keeping Panoptic Mirror banned is basically the same reason Paradox Engine is banned. Paradox Engine is essentially the cEDH version of Panoptic Mirror (i.e. an engine that turns into a perpetual motion machine too easily and too accidentally with cards everyone already has in every deck).
Panoptic mirror should have been unbanned a long time ago. We are in an age of God-Eternal Kefnet + turn spells, The mana cost and time investment on panoptic mirror is a joke compared to what is possible now.
My complaint is mainly how engine was banned over more obvious cards.
Slamming paradox engine doesn't just win the game. It requires resolving a 5cmc artifact, an already existing large density of mana tapping effects, spells to cast, and some sort of card advantage to actually work. Sometimes these elements can be combined.
Dramatic scepter has a much smaller mana investment and startup cost, and the parts can be used early if needed for other effects.
If paradox engine is the focus of the deck an it's delt with, then the deck will likely fail since such a large % of it is dedicated space for the engine parts. If a part of dramatic scepter is delt with then the deck has room to build some other wincon.
If these people actually wanted to stop the degenerate combos that use these effects then they could just get rid of Thrasios.
Currently my group is talking about just making our own house banlist because it's clear to us that this official banlist is limited by the exposure of those who run it. I don't think our group is compatible in any way with menery.
For me it depends on the artwork. I do prefer older border and foiling process (7th edition foils always having a close love). I play non foils if I like the art more.
Also, any newer rare+ card that has the foil holo dot thing below the text box is an eyesore and I will actively try to replace it asap with a version that doesn't have that ugly thing. For example, while I love the art of the eternal masters force of will, the dot ruins it for me. I'll play a nonfoil older card that doesn't have the dot over a foil that does.
I do actually like the sdcc and ftv foils, but maybe I've just had good luck with them not curling on me since I always double sleeve and keep my cards fairly tightly stacked.
Banning engine is very odd. dramatic reversal + isochron scepter are commonly considered strictly better since it doesn't flood the deck with excessive mana rocks. Most dedicated engine decks fail once it's answered, and many fair decks can run it. I have a very old rakka mar deck that is as optimized as it can be, and taking engine from it drops it from a 6 to a 5.
Unbanning painter is bad. The potential early combo threat means more people will run eldrazi titans, which I thought these people didn't like? Painter combos with so much to break the game, far worse than iona. douse, ugin, the spirit dragon, llawan, cephalid empress, and so many game resets like omen of fire.
My main playgroup is probably going to stop using the official banlist.
Uril, the Miststalker or Palladia-Mors, the Ruiner are ideal for their protection and give you the best colors for land-destruction and land recursion+ramp.
If you can make a bunch of mana (or run rituals like mana geyser), then decree of annihilation with floating mana followed by commander is almost always an insta-win, since the decree exiles and removes answers from hand and graveyard recursion routes. I've used this with generic mono-red junk like rorix bladewing as a commander & win-con before and it works well, currently doing this with Drakuseth, Maw of Flames. Random cards like geosurge end up being randomly good here.
Past that I would actually recommend running a planeswalker as a win-con instead of a creature. They tend to be harder to answer and can often times protect themselves. If you are a dedicated land-destruction deck then you likely run the land-wipes that destroy more than just lands (like devastation), so win-cons like planeswalkers are ideal.
In the end although, I would although suggest adding this sort of tactic as a secondary or back-up plan to a decks main win-con. Unless your deck is dedicated to this tactic, this archetype of deck fails to counterspells and often times isn't capable of rebuilding fast enough compared to a generic etb-value deck so you just end up king-making. I love MLD but it is pretty rough to make it a serious and consistent strategy.
If we're set on Belzenlok then perhaps boots and blackblade reforged to set up a 1 to 2 hit kill. His trample is very relevant. If you're meta is weak on spot removal then hatred is always fun.
Draw5 from promise of power is strong so why not also moonlight bargain - it's great when you have some reanimator cards already, and is instant.
Do we choose just one of the two cards to cast, are both avaliable to be cast on the same activation, or does nothing work since the land specifies "the" as in singular card hidden away?
What would be nice to see are plane themed decks. The color choice may be an issue, but a dragon spirit or myojin tribal kanagawa theme, artifact synergy kaladesh theme, graveyard inistrad theme, planeswalker ravnica theme, phyrexian & thran domonaria theme, upper class goblin mercadian theme, etc. Each deck has the unique cards in it designed in a way to tell the planes story and history.
Next to that I would love for development to flesh out mono color cards more, using the commander specific cards to really push what each color is supposed to represent. I'm talking about enchantments and spells and whatnot with full chroma in their mana cost. This is likely the best way to help some of the issues specific mono colored decks run in to.
With that in mind I do like the idea of the multi-commander option to not represent different deck archetypes. It tends to make precons 3x bad decks in one, pulling synergy apart and weakening the out-of-box precon experiance. Making all 3 commanders fit the same strategy would be ideal, especially if all three had a slightly different use in the deck. That would probably increase box sales instead of people buying just the commander from a precon as a single.
Recent years this has been getting better... sometimes. It's difficult to not make artifact synergy commanders work together, but then there was that jund deck
I've been trying to keep my comments specifically about the banlist, not the integrity of the people who influence it. Believe me, I have a strong opinion on menery. I've played with him on two different occasions at larger events and would have absolutely had more fun at any neighboring table.
@bobthefunny the exact wording I said is "when the pilot is slow at math." I'm not sure how you took that and simplified it to "people are bad at math."
From my experiance, from multiple playgroups and public events ranging large to small, with power level ranging from 2 to 10, the most common complaint about engine is when the pilot is slow at figuring out how to deploy spells. This is easily fixed with either help or practice. Banning a card that may be too complex for people to enjoy honestly just dumbs down the format in a way it doesn't need to be.
I'm pretty much done with this topic. My main group has already adjusted the banlist to our own level. If relevant information as to why someone decided to unban painter surfaces then I'll revisit. Until then there isn't anything to gain here.
The deck is a little old but has been benched for a few months. Originally it was my old Rorix Bladewing deck retuned to be MLD, since the deck ran rituals & fast mana to rush out a 4-turn clock in the air. More recently I've been running this with Lu Bu, Master-at-Arms for horse-related laughs. But now the new Drakuseth, Maw of Flames is being tested. A common(ish) issue for this strategy is having the commander (or win-con) answered after blowing up the lands, and Drakuseth is a pseudo-answer to creature ramp and also the annoying Baleful Strix that may ruin our plan. She gives the same clock speed as rorix (7-power 3 hit instead of 6-haste 4-hit), and that artwork is sweeeeeeeeeet.
Next to the dragon we have a pile of walkers that will hopefully get us further than an opponent while possibly developing into their own win-condition post MLD effect. Again this is where other colors make this strategy much better, where something as simple as Liliana of the Dark Realms can take over a game if everyones' lands+creatures are wiped. They do although tend to be the inevitable win-con as I can often times cast them before a big land-wipe spell.
1x Drakuseth, Maw of Flames
Planeswalker (8)
1x Chandra, Fire Artisan
1x Chandra, Flamecaller
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Jaya Ballard
1x Karn, Scion of Urza
1x Ugin, the Ineffable
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Instant (12)
1x Abrade
1x Boil
1x Chaos Warp
1x Inferno
1x Into the Core
1x Lightning Bolt
1x Omen of Fire
1x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Reiterate
1x Starstorm
1x Volcanic Fallout
Sorcery (19)
1x All Is Dust
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Blasphemous Act
1x Boom / Bust
1x By Force
1x Chain Reaction
1x Decree of Annihilation
1x Devastating Dreams
1x Devastation
1x Epicenter
1x Hour of Devastation
1x Jokulhaups
1x Mana Geyser
1x Obliterate
1x Pyroclasm
1x Ruination
1x Shattering Spree
1x Vandalblast
1x Wake of Destruction
1x Burning Sands
1x Outpost Siege
1x Price of Glory
1x Stranglehold
Artifact (16)
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Cursed Totem
1x Damping Sphere
1x Meekstone
1x Null Rod
1x Orb of Dreams
1x Pithing Needle
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Scrabbling Claws
1x Sphere of Resistance
1x Static Orb
1x Tangle Wire
1x Thorn of Amethyst
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Torpor Orb
1x Winter Orb
Land (40)
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Evolving Wilds
30x Mountain
1x Myriad Landscape
1x Prismatic Vista
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Scavenger Grounds
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Wooded Foothills
Converted Manacost;
0 cmc = 1
1 cmc = 10 (1 X spell)
2 cmc = 11 (1 X spell)
3 cmc = 9
4 cmc = 10
5 cmc = 6
6 cmc = 4
7 cmc = 5
8 cmc = 2
9 cmc = 1
10 cmc = 1
You can playtest the deck here.
Things I've been working on / playing with / testing in this deck;
There is no ramp! Since the deck does want to destroy all permanents, relying on artifact ramp is one option, but this build we are running without. There is also the random chance of null rod showing up in a sol ring opening hand, which is always funny. Since we are limited in the speed of which we can resolve wipe+win-con, we have a pile of semi-hateful cheap cards that we want to sparingly play out early to annoy & slow the opponents while we make land-fall up to our combo, all while trying to kill off as many creatures as possible.
This deck fails in many ways. The main way it fails is when we see too many overly-focused hate cards that are irrelevant to the game (Pyroblast against non-blue opponents for example)). This although is what happens when we decide to stick to mono-red and not play fast-mana, card draw, or tutors. The second way it fails is when an opponent finds an answer to our win-con and recovers faster than we can manage. This nearly king-makes the winner of the game, and is where people tend to complain about the strategy. The third most common way this deck fails is when it runs in to too many redundant hate cards (like too many artifact destruction spells when there isn't anything to blow up), or by tax effects that are irrelevant at the time. This could be fixed if I squeeze in a faithless looting package.
There are some questionable cards I'm still running. Meekstone tends to be answered long before I'm ready to push out my commander, but if I don't have a walker available post-wipe then I may lock myself. Much like winter orb it is a card that tends to sit in-hand until the most opportune moment.
The best cards to see in the deck are mana geyser (typically accelerates our game-plan to turn-5), and decree of annihilation (exile all hands + 'yards is very relevant).
Cards I'm considering adding/testing are Flashfires, god-pharaoh's statue, Phyrexian Revoker, Omen Machine, Rampaging Ferocidon, and Trinisphere. Since I last ran Lu Bu, Master-at-Arms here, wildfire and destructive force were not in the deck, but they may return.
Disclaimer for those who dislike MLD - Please make sure you're not confusing MLD as a strategy vs MLD from someone who just likes to troll games. There is a difference from someone trying to destroy your resources while putting out a win-con vs someone that wants to drag a game on for a few hours and plays Shahrazad style crap. The goal of this deck is to win, and it can do so by removing your resources.
The issue it causes players is when the pilot is slow at math, not what the card adds to the game. The fix to this problem is helping your friend, not banning a card.
There are many casual non-storm/combo decks that use engine fairly. The "fun-suck" is when those decks get weakened by random bans and drop below an acceptable playable strength. I wasn't the only person in my playgroup that had a casual deck that uses engine to untap a fun commander with a fun tap ability.
<Mod snip> -Ad hominem attacks are not acceptable on mtgs
I have yet to see or hear a single good excuse for unbanning painter. There are other cards on the banlist that can be set free. The before mentioned panoptic mirror, which is terribly slow compared to what kefnit+turns is capable of doing now. If they want to keep the list short, then unban braids, because banning a card using mtgo as an excuse was silly. Why not gifts ungiven (because intuition isn't), biorhythm when we have shaman of forgotten ways, or coalition victory which fails to a creature removal spell or strip mine and we have approach the second sun which is far easier to control?
Really why did they choose painter when there are multiple other safer options.
My playgroup isn't cedh, and while we do have competitive decks, iona isn't good enough for any of them. Our deck strength average is around a 6 and iona would never be good enough at our table. It truly is a medium-to-bad trap card. It's a learning experience that is eventually unsleeved and forgotten about. But hey this is what they think is a ban-worthy card.
This argument about running colorless answers is a joke. all is dust, ugin, the spirit dragon, perilous vault, and oblivion stone are better cards than iona. Others like duplicant and spine may even be synergistic for the deck, because most artifact decks I've seen run those too. If you're not already playing those, then either your meta is too quick and there isn't an iona, your meta is too weak and there still isn't an iona, or your choosing to not play obviously good cards that can answer any number of threats.
I love when modern bans occur because there are solid reasoning and you can actually follow the thought process as to why something was banned. For example bridge was just banned to tone down hogaack. Doesn't kill the deck, does affect dredge to the point that it's not overshadowed by hogaack, and the degenerate potential turn-1 wins from neoform were left alone because development looked at the % of players actually using the deck and its performance. Not the complaints but the performance.
Now then we have edh bans where painter was unbanned by someone who complains about combos in edh, and build-around cards like engine are banned when if he really understood how those decks worked then he could have just banned dramatic reversal - a card that only exists in the format to be abused.
Maybe he was just terrified that people would break urza (and to a lesser extent golos, tireless pilgrim) with engine. I'm so glad that infinite mana commanders can't be broken still in this format with other combos that cost less mana investment and card density to start up.
In no particular order;
Red;
1 ruination
2 lightning bolt
3 burning sands
4 past in flames
5 overmaster
Black;
1 darkness
2 bitterblossom
3 pestilence
4 praetor's grasp
5 cranial plating
Blue;
1 mana drain
2 stifle
3 back to basics
4 time spiral
5 gilded drake
Green;
1 sylvan library
2 savage summoning
3 heroic intervention
4 genesis wave
5 woodland bellower + package
White;
1 aura of silence
2 scout's warning
3 armageddon
4 land tax
5 thalia, heretic cathar
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard goes nicely with your staff but his lines tend to make for a different deck.
Panoptic mirror should have been unbanned a long time ago. We are in an age of God-Eternal Kefnet + turn spells, The mana cost and time investment on panoptic mirror is a joke compared to what is possible now.
My complaint is mainly how engine was banned over more obvious cards.
Slamming paradox engine doesn't just win the game. It requires resolving a 5cmc artifact, an already existing large density of mana tapping effects, spells to cast, and some sort of card advantage to actually work. Sometimes these elements can be combined.
Dramatic scepter has a much smaller mana investment and startup cost, and the parts can be used early if needed for other effects.
If paradox engine is the focus of the deck an it's delt with, then the deck will likely fail since such a large % of it is dedicated space for the engine parts. If a part of dramatic scepter is delt with then the deck has room to build some other wincon.
If these people actually wanted to stop the degenerate combos that use these effects then they could just get rid of Thrasios.
Currently my group is talking about just making our own house banlist because it's clear to us that this official banlist is limited by the exposure of those who run it. I don't think our group is compatible in any way with menery.
Also, any newer rare+ card that has the foil holo dot thing below the text box is an eyesore and I will actively try to replace it asap with a version that doesn't have that ugly thing. For example, while I love the art of the eternal masters force of will, the dot ruins it for me. I'll play a nonfoil older card that doesn't have the dot over a foil that does.
I do actually like the sdcc and ftv foils, but maybe I've just had good luck with them not curling on me since I always double sleeve and keep my cards fairly tightly stacked.
Unbanning painter is bad. The potential early combo threat means more people will run eldrazi titans, which I thought these people didn't like? Painter combos with so much to break the game, far worse than iona. douse, ugin, the spirit dragon, llawan, cephalid empress, and so many game resets like omen of fire.
My main playgroup is probably going to stop using the official banlist.