Hello hello! With the new printing of the zendi fetchable lands I find myself wanting to construct another 1v1 traditional edh deck. My last adventure here was with Yasova Dragonclaw and it was fairly good. I rarely play green and I don't do very much in terms of 1v1 for this format, so I'm looking for some advice for card selection, cuts out of my oldl ist, and other advice.
I am aware that voltron designs in 1v1 are not always the best in a more competitive environment, but this style of offense is my preference, and I'd love to see where this goes.
The curve is slightly over 2.5, and I have nearly 40 cards I could play before I even get up to 3cmc (my general). Some of the 5 to 6 cmc cards might need to be removed, but these are the bomb cards that help really push a game in my favor.
The goal of the deck is to land Yasova on turn-2 (6 enablers), and with a mana crypt and forest we can see her on turn-1. The follow-up is an absolute mess, because keeping Yasova's power high, keeping her and my equipment safe, and stopping something that Yasova can't interact with is asking quite a lot in terms of cards.
The issue was that I didn't want to politic my friend playing the kiki deck since she was very new to the game. For example when things like tuktuk scrapper came out I helped her understand the legitimate targets, and I ended up being fairly neutered.
The game was actually going well in my favor when I had a shard phoenix on defense with a repercussions out, and all three players recognized the threat and didn't come after to attack me. Eventually the newer player saw that everyone's life totals were dropping except for my own, and really figured out my game (after everyone warned her wanting her to not copy her recently cast siege-gang commander).
After doing the match she figured she would be able to kill me no mater if I sac'ed the phoenix or not. She tried to make a copy of bogardan rager and I pulled the trigger on the phoenix, killing the grenzo player, dropping damia down to 9, kiki down to 11, and myself down to 1. It did wipe her board except for the bogardan rager, and even with me having word of seizing in hand and 5 lands open to pseudo-fog, that included an ancient tomb. I died a fair death.
The game ended very quickly after I was out. Damia was able to attack and get Kiki down to 3 with her two remaining creatures, but Kiki had been sandbaging a thundermare and spawn of thraxes in hand and took him out with ease on her next turn.
During this game Chandra did come out to play three different times. She was able to tap and do a grand total of two damage in her first outing, but after that she never survived a full turn to do anything with. Grenzo & Kiki decks full of etb-effects tend to make 2/2 creatures fairly irrelevant.
I did make another change before playing tonight by cutting mindclaw shaman out of the list. Even with this deck being designed for a multiplayer table, a 5cmc 2/2 that has a chance to wiff is too unreliable. This style of deck is very fragile in function and doesn't have room for a whimsical card that may do nothing.
I honestly do love mindclaw shaman as he does fantastic things and makes for some very entertaining plays, but for what this deck is trying to do there just isn't room for him. I've slipped in ravaging blaze to replace him, as another instant speed creature removal spell with a possible up-side wincondition seems more appropriate.
I'm still fiddling with arcbond and still have yet to draw in to it. I really want to see this card in action and have been waiting to pull it for a while now
The biggest threat at the table doesn't always have to be the most tuned deck or expensive deck to play.
Most of the time this player is determined by previous games and/or simply how they are known to play, even bleeding their performance over from other formats.
I don't mind running de-optomized lists so that my mtg financial value is not a showcase and gives me unwanted attention, but realistically I do want my decks to be the best that (I feel) they are capable of being.
There is a great amount of political effort I push to make my decks function as they do, and there is a very high threshold for implying to your opponents that someone else is a threat. The memnarch player at the table playtesting his new budget deck can easily be made out as a more threatening target than me, even with my beta gauntlet of might sitting out, with precisely chosen words, implications, and non-verbal communication. While my deck might be perfectly optimized as I see fit, I am essentially roll-playing a non-threat.
Being the second biggest threat is still considered a threat to players 3 & 4 & so on. I feel it is better to try to control the board passively and paint any threat target on anyone but oneself...before you take over the game.
We ran her again last night while pushing for more serum visions, but not for the preliminary game. The inclusion of Boseiju, Who Shelters All had made for a fantastic turn-around.
An opening hand of ancient tomb + mountain + jouneyer's kite felt like a great passive start to pull some lands, but I actually got flooded the entire game. When I drew into an expedition map I elected to fetch up and start using terrain generator as soon as possible. I was able to land a turn-3 Chandra, Pyromaster and continued to rip mountain after mountain off my deck with her, using it as a visual crutch to deflect attention away from me.
All of my deflection wasn't really necessary as two of the opponents were pretty much terrified of the inevitable memnarch deck's potential. This guy had proven in many games how ridiculous his deck is, with just earlier in that same night landing a blightsteel + kozi w/ haste on t-5.
The game was grinding very slow with most people afraid to land permanents, except for the group-hug guy landing global effects. Things started going stupid once he landed Dictate of Karametra, and within a turn memnarch had taken every useful/threatening permanent, and was about to just start taking lands after resolving a cyclonic rift. He had essentially locked himself in for victory with his darksteel forge+mycosynth lattice and a grip of counterspells.
Politics ensue, I ask for counter-backup in case memnarch has a venser in his hand (which he doesn't), and I end up tapping out to try and banefire the memnarch player getting him down to 3 life, and the keranos player finished him off with a molten disaster (a card that I'm now very much interested in including myself). We get all of our permanents back and continue.
With memnarch out of the way and everyone being less than 18 life thanks to the molten disaster, derevi untaps and re-plays his dictate of karametra and a few other things then passes to me.
I untap and resolve the gauntlet of might that I had been sandbagging. With lots of math I see that I have enough to make use of the disintegrate in my hand, and reuse the banefire in my 'yard with recoup from hand, keeping two of the spells safe since the dictate of karametra made Boseiju, Who Shelters All tap for 2. After a rules check it appears that I was incorrect in this being that mana reflection is the only way to make Boseiju give two spells uncounterable, but at this time in this match it didn't mater.
While it didn't get countered, the control player did stop my first disintegrate spell from killing him with a safe passage, but the effect from the flash-back'ed banefire got him, and the flash-back'ed recoup'd flash-back'ed disintegrate got keranos.
TLDR - global mana-doublers in mulit-player with a burn deck = stupid things happen. Chandra came out and ping'ed a few players, but essentially helped me politic myself into victory as the "weak deck." I don't think using her like this is going to be a reliable thing - eventually the opponents will see the pattern.
Boseiju, Who Shelters All is a card I had overlooked in many previous decks simply due to the CIPT effect. I loathe lands that come in to play tapped unless they make a tremendous impact. Boseiju is going to stick around and I'll need to pick up another copy for my Latulla, Keldon Overseer deck as well.
I had added Arcbond to the list wanting to see how it worked out, but in the few games I've played Chandra with in the past week haven't drawn into it once. I'm looking to add more mass creature removal, and am looking to make a cut for either Mizzium Mortars or molten disaster.
edit; After reconsidering Kolmogorov's comment about magmaquake I think that molten disaster would be the ideal replacement for this card. Loosing instant speed hurts, and I haven't ran into the situation of hurting my own walkers w/ quake, but it is possibility, so we might as well make sure it doesn't happen.
Sadly chandra's tap ability only hits a player, so we would actually require the thornbite staff for its pay-to-burn ability just to have her hit a creature. Why development chose to have her only poke at a player in her creature form I honestly do not know.
No one in my area makes use of the sideboard rule. The majority of edh games I play occur outside of our lgs. I have a feeling that if I were to sit down at another fnm hosted game and observe my opponents decks and pick up a sideboard I might get some pre-game hate lol.
I did run volcanic offering for a while. I really liked the effect if I'm not already considered a threat, otherwise the opponent(s) would just choose the same targets and retaliate. If the 7 damage could also target a player then I would keep it maindecked until the end of time. I'll slip it in the next time I go against a few opponents that don't know what my deck is trying to do
The nekusar player ran out an early damnation after having his own nekusar removed by marchesa, which essentially cleared the way for me to land Koth & Karn and go nuts with the rings of brighthearth for about 5 turns (sending 2x 5/5 mountains and exiling 2x with karn). With all of my creature answers the opponents couldn't answer karn other than bouncing him a few times, and the swing in advantage was enormous.
Like all games with this deck Chandra did come out a few times. She was allowed to flip twice and spent a few turns double-shocking opponents using my rings, but my board was bounced numerous times during the game by the 3x blue decks. She never did have any serious impact other than netting extra damage to the opponents. Technically she did lower then enough for me to do my disintegrate+radiate win, but many other generals could have done more damage faster and more reliably so.
The luck-sack start with sol ring and running into a double burnished hart sac' put me too far ahead. The lack of interruption in the first 4 turns was most likely the only reason I was able to win.
The only changes I had made before tonight was to give Volcanic Vision a test in place of Flametongue Kavu. It helped me recover and reuse an earthquake during the game, which helped me whittle everyone down even lower, but with that high of a cmc I'm not sure if it is really worth an inclusion over something like anarchist. I had tested it in a casual game earlier and was able to cast anger of the gods and then volcanic vision to recover anger in the same turn, exiling an entire board. Will have to give it some more play.
@Stormflower - If this were for 1v1 then I would absolutely include extraplanar lens, but at my multiplayer table I worry about having it bounced/destroyed early, as the 1-land setback can make me fall behind against some fairly strong opponents. Holding it back in hand for a possible late-game play sounds like the right thing to do. Skred & Scrying Sheets with snow-covered lands would be a great upgrade.
In this particular design I'm actually excluding Stranglehold, as well as blood moon and torpor orb as they are often times too situational with 3+ opponents. Against specific decks and 1v1 these cards are extremely powerful and they can really lock down a game, but if there are multiple opponents, resolving one of these effects typically stops just one opponent, letting the other opponents get ahead, all while I've spent a card slot that essentially makes that one neutered opponent pay more attention to me and my board
@Kolmogorov One would think magmaquake would be counteractive, but to be honest, in my meta most of my walkers won't survive for a second turn to make use of them twice. Ugin will board wipe, Karn will exile something necessary, Koth will be a massive seething song/ritual for some late game play/burn spell. Chandra, Pyromaster is the only one that I really want to protect for her access to extra cards. Chandra, Roaring Flame is the exception as she doesn't typically warrant removal.
Commune with Lava doesn't show its power unless you have a mana-doubling effect out. Even without a mana-doubling effect I think it is still a strong card (often times better than act on impulse), since it can even be used early to help landfall for two turns.
I like your decklist in your signature. I'd be interested in hearing how it plays vs different opponents. Since you have more creatures you might like Skullclamp to go with that Shard Phoenix and Young Pyromancer.
I had previously done mass creatures with the intent of having defense for Chandra, but the net impact on a multiplayer board was insignificant. This design is more of a late-game big x-spell deck, using Chandra as an early nuisance and/or to appear underwhelming so that I get less attention at the table.
But to be honest she is pretty terrible in traditional EDH. The best thing about her is that simple fact that she looks underwhelming. Just about any other mono-red general can make a better impact on the board.
I have also playtested enough with Pyromaner's Goggles and Pyromancer's Gauntlet to see that, while very flavorful, their impact is also very insignificant. I have although chosen to re-include the Pyromacner's Gauntlet as it aided in a sort of red-herring to make Chandra look threatening and warrant removal while I build up more mana for a different offense. The goggles although, in my meta, are just too slow to be practical (vulnerable if cast when not able to use immediately, takes up too much mana when cast with intent of using to follow-up with a big spell worth copying).
Rings of Brighthearth although are the best tech I've been able to use with Chandra, getting double emblems in two different games has made for a very nice swing in life totals. The issue is that there is just no follow-up to this sort of play.
Most of these cards were pulled from a few previous decks, and as a mono-red fanboy I will always be improving my collection of mono-red "staples." One can track my deck pimpage here.
What do you all think? Is there any tech or unrealized potential that I'm missing with Chandra here? Is there any cards that you all would like me to playtest with and see how they work out?
Change Log and card testing
8/14/2015 - Flametongue Kavu came out in favor of Volcanic Visions after playtesting. Visions is a situational recovery spell but has proven to be fantastic.
8/19/2015 - Added Boseiju, Who Shelters All as well as re-adding Ancient Tomb (replacing two basic's). I had taken the tomb out as I didn't have many reasons for an explosive start, but chose to re-add it because having an odd # of basics agitated me.
8/22/2015 - Removing magmaquake per Kolmogorov's advice in favor of molten disaster. Potential split-second makes for a very nice effect in this deck when it comes to a game-ending spell.
8/28/2015 - removed Mindclaw Shaman in favor for Ravaging Blaze. While I do love Mindclaw, the functionality of this deck doesn't really have room for a card that may backfire so terribly. Mindclaw fits better in my kiki build than it does here.
Cards reserved for testing/needs
Cards being tested; Arcbond - potentially a 3cmc post-combat board wipe. Plays well with Nicol Bolas, but the mana-to-results potential might make it a meaningful staple for mono-red.
it lets them reprint stuff to benefit a larger number of older/more experienced players thus giving service to their loyal customers. That sounds like not only a great plan to me, but a fantastic business model.
What you've described is a fantastic model. But as one of those older players I'm still waiting for these important reprints.
And a more general comment, you seem to want to argue that since they don't have huge initial monetary value that they hold no value and/or shouldn't be bought.
I actually don't really care about the monetary value of what the decks have to offer. I understand that these precon's will never come with a grim monolith. What I think is terrible although is that something like armistice was reprinted and they chose to waste a rare-spot for it.
It feels like there is very little effort done for crafting a deck that can compete with anything other than another precon. I built a friend a $30 budget edh deck specifically because they didn't want to spend $30 on what cards were spoiled in the 2014 decklists. My rubbish little $30 deck has proven to stand up to most of our playgroups multi-tiered decks, but also consistently obliterate anyone who plays the precon against it.
The irony is that I am hardly as experienced of an EDH player as some of my other buddies. My rubbish budget deck has so much room for improvement, and possibly cheaper than what I invested into it. There are so many good yet very affordable cards that could be put into these precon's. Devastation Tide, Evacuation, and Wash Out seem like pretty obvious inclusions for less than a $ rare. But instead Distorting Wake gets a rare spot.
This is sort of hard to really explain in a very short statement. But this is what I want out of the 2015 decks - an actually thematic deck with not specifically terrible card choices. A budget reprint can be just as effective as a non-budget reprint, but including low-powered cards on purpose is not how to make a player better at the game. Developing "commander exclusive" cards that are rarely used in your average commander deck is not going to entice many to purchase a product.
i think part of the problem is that the decks are created with all 3 possible commadners in mind. there basicly are cards that fit one fothe 3 commanders. and when the commanders dont follow the same strategy, some cards are simply not needed for the deck (prime example imo beeing Political Puppets with Ruhan and Zedruu, one beeing the stomper, the other beeing the laid back political girl)
I feel they already attempted this with Nahiri, the Lithomancer. Her abilities are all over the place, dictating a deck somewhere between equipment support and token generation (two archetypes that are not very compatible), with an out-of-reach ultimate that is made useless by a targetable bounce. IMO the design on her fails really hard. If she had some other white attribute (like enchantment removal) instead of the token generation, or instead of the equipment tech had temporary creature buffs or some lord emblem to make the tokens useful, she would be seeing more play.
The direction that most of last years preconstructed decks took were pretty much erratic.
There was an underlying theme of old important character in every precon...except for mono-black, which got two characters residing on zendikar. I get that they wanted to introduce Oby Nicholas, but then why Drana, who was already printed as a foil in an earlier precon? Volrath the Fallen would have been an ideal inclusion over Drana, and wouldn't have hurt on anyones wallet.
Likewise, if development were ever going directly support a mono-color'ed deck, specifically making unique mono-color EDH supporting cards, last years pre-constructed decks would have been the time to see this. You would think that if your making a mono-color deck than there would be some benefit for running 30+ basics of the same type. Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle comes to mind - a card that was not included in the mono-red precon. Designing something as simple as this supporting land for the other 4 colors would have been an ideal inclusion for a series of pre-con's that are all mono-color.
(and yes I understand that using valakut as an example might not be the best in regards to other current lands like Cabal Coffers. Still... oddly enough each 2014 precon came with a ghost quarter.)
Like thundermaw hellkite he is really good at merking planeswalkers.
I am aware that voltron designs in 1v1 are not always the best in a more competitive environment, but this style of offense is my preference, and I'd love to see where this goes.
Here is my currently most up-to-date list;
1x Yasova Dragonclaw
Creature (18)
1x Acidic Slime
1x Arbor Elf
1x Bazaar Trader
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fyndhorn Elves
1x Godo, Bandit Warlord
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Phantasmal Image
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Prime Speaker Zegana
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Wolfir Silverheart
1x Xenagos, God of Revels
Instant (18)
1x Brainstorm
1x Counterspell
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Delay
1x Flusterstorm
1x Ghostly Flicker
1x Izzet Charm
1x Lightning Bolt
1x Mana Drain
1x Mana Leak
1x Negate
1x Pongify
1x Rapid Hybridization
1x Remove Soul
1x Simic Charm
1x Swan Song
1x Temur Battle Rage
1x Temur Charm
1x Ancestral Vision
1x Farseek
1x Frenzied Tilling
1x Gitaxian Probe
1x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
1x Nature's Lore
1x Ponder
1x Preordain
1x Rampant Growth
1x Reap and Sow
1x Vandalblast
Artifact (14)
1x Batterskull
1x Birthing Pod
1x Champion's Helm
1x Culling Dais
1x Empyrial Plate
1x Helm of Possession
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Enchantment (4)
1x Bear Umbra
1x Greater Good
1x Perilous Forays
1x Sylvan Library
Land (35)
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Breeding Pool
1x Command Tower
6x Forest
1x Hall of the Bandit Lord
1x High Market
8x Island
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1x Misty Rainforest
2x Mountain
1x Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1x Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
1x Taiga
1x Tropical Island
1x Volcanic Island
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Yavimaya Hollow
1x Prophet of Kruphix
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Steam Augury
1x Rogue's Passage
1x Sword of Body and Mind
1x Sword of War and Peace
The curve is slightly over 2.5, and I have nearly 40 cards I could play before I even get up to 3cmc (my general). Some of the 5 to 6 cmc cards might need to be removed, but these are the bomb cards that help really push a game in my favor.
The goal of the deck is to land Yasova on turn-2 (6 enablers), and with a mana crypt and forest we can see her on turn-1. The follow-up is an absolute mess, because keeping Yasova's power high, keeping her and my equipment safe, and stopping something that Yasova can't interact with is asking quite a lot in terms of cards.
Tonight was a strange as two out of the four of us were borrowing decks, one of which was fairly new to the game.
The opponents included a Damia, Sage of Stone reanimator deck, a Grenzo, Dungeon Warden good-stuff deck, and a friend piloting my zero-combo kiki-jiki deck.
The issue was that I didn't want to politic my friend playing the kiki deck since she was very new to the game. For example when things like tuktuk scrapper came out I helped her understand the legitimate targets, and I ended up being fairly neutered.
The game was actually going well in my favor when I had a shard phoenix on defense with a repercussions out, and all three players recognized the threat and didn't come after to attack me. Eventually the newer player saw that everyone's life totals were dropping except for my own, and really figured out my game (after everyone warned her wanting her to not copy her recently cast siege-gang commander).
After doing the match she figured she would be able to kill me no mater if I sac'ed the phoenix or not. She tried to make a copy of bogardan rager and I pulled the trigger on the phoenix, killing the grenzo player, dropping damia down to 9, kiki down to 11, and myself down to 1. It did wipe her board except for the bogardan rager, and even with me having word of seizing in hand and 5 lands open to pseudo-fog, that included an ancient tomb. I died a fair death.
The game ended very quickly after I was out. Damia was able to attack and get Kiki down to 3 with her two remaining creatures, but Kiki had been sandbaging a thundermare and spawn of thraxes in hand and took him out with ease on her next turn.
During this game Chandra did come out to play three different times. She was able to tap and do a grand total of two damage in her first outing, but after that she never survived a full turn to do anything with. Grenzo & Kiki decks full of etb-effects tend to make 2/2 creatures fairly irrelevant.
I did make another change before playing tonight by cutting mindclaw shaman out of the list. Even with this deck being designed for a multiplayer table, a 5cmc 2/2 that has a chance to wiff is too unreliable. This style of deck is very fragile in function and doesn't have room for a whimsical card that may do nothing.
I honestly do love mindclaw shaman as he does fantastic things and makes for some very entertaining plays, but for what this deck is trying to do there just isn't room for him. I've slipped in ravaging blaze to replace him, as another instant speed creature removal spell with a possible up-side wincondition seems more appropriate.
I'm still fiddling with arcbond and still have yet to draw in to it. I really want to see this card in action and have been waiting to pull it for a while now
Most of the time this player is determined by previous games and/or simply how they are known to play, even bleeding their performance over from other formats.
I don't mind running de-optomized lists so that my mtg financial value is not a showcase and gives me unwanted attention, but realistically I do want my decks to be the best that (I feel) they are capable of being.
There is a great amount of political effort I push to make my decks function as they do, and there is a very high threshold for implying to your opponents that someone else is a threat. The memnarch player at the table playtesting his new budget deck can easily be made out as a more threatening target than me, even with my beta gauntlet of might sitting out, with precisely chosen words, implications, and non-verbal communication. While my deck might be perfectly optimized as I see fit, I am essentially roll-playing a non-threat.
Being the second biggest threat is still considered a threat to players 3 & 4 & so on. I feel it is better to try to control the board passively and paint any threat target on anyone but oneself...before you take over the game.
/end
Mr.Sandbaggins
The opponents in this game was a izzet thematic Keranos, God of Storms, group-hug/control Derevi, Empyrial Tactician, and a really nasty Memnarch deck.
An opening hand of ancient tomb + mountain + jouneyer's kite felt like a great passive start to pull some lands, but I actually got flooded the entire game. When I drew into an expedition map I elected to fetch up and start using terrain generator as soon as possible. I was able to land a turn-3 Chandra, Pyromaster and continued to rip mountain after mountain off my deck with her, using it as a visual crutch to deflect attention away from me.
All of my deflection wasn't really necessary as two of the opponents were pretty much terrified of the inevitable memnarch deck's potential. This guy had proven in many games how ridiculous his deck is, with just earlier in that same night landing a blightsteel + kozi w/ haste on t-5.
The game was grinding very slow with most people afraid to land permanents, except for the group-hug guy landing global effects. Things started going stupid once he landed Dictate of Karametra, and within a turn memnarch had taken every useful/threatening permanent, and was about to just start taking lands after resolving a cyclonic rift. He had essentially locked himself in for victory with his darksteel forge+mycosynth lattice and a grip of counterspells.
Politics ensue, I ask for counter-backup in case memnarch has a venser in his hand (which he doesn't), and I end up tapping out to try and banefire the memnarch player getting him down to 3 life, and the keranos player finished him off with a molten disaster (a card that I'm now very much interested in including myself). We get all of our permanents back and continue.
With memnarch out of the way and everyone being less than 18 life thanks to the molten disaster, derevi untaps and re-plays his dictate of karametra and a few other things then passes to me.
I untap and resolve the gauntlet of might that I had been sandbagging. With lots of math I see that I have enough to make use of the disintegrate in my hand, and reuse the banefire in my 'yard with recoup from hand, keeping two of the spells safe since the dictate of karametra made Boseiju, Who Shelters All tap for 2. After a rules check it appears that I was incorrect in this being that mana reflection is the only way to make Boseiju give two spells uncounterable, but at this time in this match it didn't mater.
While it didn't get countered, the control player did stop my first disintegrate spell from killing him with a safe passage, but the effect from the flash-back'ed banefire got him, and the flash-back'ed recoup'd flash-back'ed disintegrate got keranos.
TLDR - global mana-doublers in mulit-player with a burn deck = stupid things happen. Chandra came out and ping'ed a few players, but essentially helped me politic myself into victory as the "weak deck." I don't think using her like this is going to be a reliable thing - eventually the opponents will see the pattern.
Boseiju, Who Shelters All is a card I had overlooked in many previous decks simply due to the CIPT effect. I loathe lands that come in to play tapped unless they make a tremendous impact. Boseiju is going to stick around and I'll need to pick up another copy for my Latulla, Keldon Overseer deck as well.
I had added Arcbond to the list wanting to see how it worked out, but in the few games I've played Chandra with in the past week haven't drawn into it once. I'm looking to add more mass creature removal, and am looking to make a cut for either Mizzium Mortars or molten disaster.
edit; After reconsidering Kolmogorov's comment about magmaquake I think that molten disaster would be the ideal replacement for this card. Loosing instant speed hurts, and I haven't ran into the situation of hurting my own walkers w/ quake, but it is possibility, so we might as well make sure it doesn't happen.
I do like the idea of mizzium mortars.
Sadly chandra's tap ability only hits a player, so we would actually require the thornbite staff for its pay-to-burn ability just to have her hit a creature. Why development chose to have her only poke at a player in her creature form I honestly do not know.
Boseiju sounds like a perfect fit.
I did run volcanic offering for a while. I really liked the effect if I'm not already considered a threat, otherwise the opponent(s) would just choose the same targets and retaliate. If the 7 damage could also target a player then I would keep it maindecked until the end of time. I'll slip it in the next time I go against a few opponents that don't know what my deck is trying to do
I had 3 opponents in Marchesa, the Black Rose, Nekusar, the Mindrazer, and Teferi, Temporal Archmage.
I had an excessively fast start with t-1 sol ring t-2 gauntlet of might t-3 missed landfall but resolved burnished hart, holding up the sac for him for a turn-4 rings of brighthearth
The nekusar player ran out an early damnation after having his own nekusar removed by marchesa, which essentially cleared the way for me to land Koth & Karn and go nuts with the rings of brighthearth for about 5 turns (sending 2x 5/5 mountains and exiling 2x with karn). With all of my creature answers the opponents couldn't answer karn other than bouncing him a few times, and the swing in advantage was enormous.
The game ended with a fairly underpaid disintegrate copied with a radiate.
Like all games with this deck Chandra did come out a few times. She was allowed to flip twice and spent a few turns double-shocking opponents using my rings, but my board was bounced numerous times during the game by the 3x blue decks. She never did have any serious impact other than netting extra damage to the opponents. Technically she did lower then enough for me to do my disintegrate+radiate win, but many other generals could have done more damage faster and more reliably so.
The luck-sack start with sol ring and running into a double burnished hart sac' put me too far ahead. The lack of interruption in the first 4 turns was most likely the only reason I was able to win.
The only changes I had made before tonight was to give Volcanic Vision a test in place of Flametongue Kavu. It helped me recover and reuse an earthquake during the game, which helped me whittle everyone down even lower, but with that high of a cmc I'm not sure if it is really worth an inclusion over something like anarchist. I had tested it in a casual game earlier and was able to cast anger of the gods and then volcanic vision to recover anger in the same turn, exiling an entire board. Will have to give it some more play.
Most recent;
(1v1 crappy voltron deck against a mono-green rampy/elf nonsense deck)
T1 ancient tomb + mana crypt into solemn simulacrum fetching mountain
T2 mountain + sword of feast and famine, equip to solemn and attack, untap and reveal sword of fire and ice into concession
Old happy moments;
(starting on the play in a 2hg game against a token deck and an elf deck)
T1 mountain + sol ring + mind stone
T2 mountain + gaunlet of might
T3 mountain + ugin, the spirit dragon, -2 ugin to exile 5 permanents already spat out by the opposing team, they scoop.
(starting a 6-player game)
T1 island + sol ring + wayfarer's bauble
T2 island, crack bauble, grim monolith
T3 island, sit back and wait, EOT of opponent high tide, cast Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur from command zone
T4 island, words of wind, train wreck ensues.
In this particular design I'm actually excluding Stranglehold, as well as blood moon and torpor orb as they are often times too situational with 3+ opponents. Against specific decks and 1v1 these cards are extremely powerful and they can really lock down a game, but if there are multiple opponents, resolving one of these effects typically stops just one opponent, letting the other opponents get ahead, all while I've spent a card slot that essentially makes that one neutered opponent pay more attention to me and my board
@Kolmogorov One would think magmaquake would be counteractive, but to be honest, in my meta most of my walkers won't survive for a second turn to make use of them twice. Ugin will board wipe, Karn will exile something necessary, Koth will be a massive seething song/ritual for some late game play/burn spell. Chandra, Pyromaster is the only one that I really want to protect for her access to extra cards. Chandra, Roaring Flame is the exception as she doesn't typically warrant removal.
Commune with Lava doesn't show its power unless you have a mana-doubling effect out. Even without a mana-doubling effect I think it is still a strong card (often times better than act on impulse), since it can even be used early to help landfall for two turns.
I like your decklist in your signature. I'd be interested in hearing how it plays vs different opponents. Since you have more creatures you might like Skullclamp to go with that Shard Phoenix and Young Pyromancer.
Have you ever considered or tested The Chain Veil? Has Embermaw Hellion worked out well with Chandra?
Here is my current design;
1x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh
Creature (13)
1x Bogardan Hellkite
1x Burnished Hart
1x Dualcaster Mage
1x Duplicant
1x Hoard-Smelter Dragon
1x Inferno Titan
1x Knollspine Dragon
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1x Shard Phoenix
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Spawn of Thraxes
1x Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
1x Thunder Dragon
Planeswalker (4)
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
1x Karn Liberated
1x Koth of the Hammer
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Instant (13)
1x Act of Aggression
1x Burn Away
1x Carbonize
1x Comet Storm
1x Commune with Lava
1x Grab the Reins
1x Radiate
1x Ravaging Blaze
1x Reiterate
1x Reverberate
1x Shattering Pulse
1x Starstorm
1x Word of Seizing
1x All Is Dust
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Banefire
1x Blasphemous Act
1x Demonfire
1x Disintegrate
1x Earthquake
1x Past in Flames
1x Molten Disaster
1x Recoup
1x Red Sun's Zenith
1x Reforge the Soul
1x Ruination
1x Vandalblast
1x Volcanic Visions
1x Wheel of Fortune
Artifact (14)
1x Caged Sun
1x Coercive Portal
1x Expedition Map
1x Gauntlet of Might
1x Gauntlet of Power
1x Journeyer's Kite
1x Mind's Eye
1x Nevinyrral's Disk
1x Pyromancer's Gauntlet
1x Rings of Brighthearth
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Staff of Nin
1x Wayfarer's Bauble
1x Outpost Siege
1x Repercussion
Land (37)
30x Mountain
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Myriad Landscape
1x Temple of the False God
1x Terrain Generator
1x Thawing Glaciers
1x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
I had previously done mass creatures with the intent of having defense for Chandra, but the net impact on a multiplayer board was insignificant. This design is more of a late-game big x-spell deck, using Chandra as an early nuisance and/or to appear underwhelming so that I get less attention at the table.
But to be honest she is pretty terrible in traditional EDH. The best thing about her is that simple fact that she looks underwhelming. Just about any other mono-red general can make a better impact on the board.
I have also playtested enough with Pyromaner's Goggles and Pyromancer's Gauntlet to see that, while very flavorful, their impact is also very insignificant. I have although chosen to re-include the Pyromacner's Gauntlet as it aided in a sort of red-herring to make Chandra look threatening and warrant removal while I build up more mana for a different offense. The goggles although, in my meta, are just too slow to be practical (vulnerable if cast when not able to use immediately, takes up too much mana when cast with intent of using to follow-up with a big spell worth copying).
Rings of Brighthearth although are the best tech I've been able to use with Chandra, getting double emblems in two different games has made for a very nice swing in life totals. The issue is that there is just no follow-up to this sort of play.
A video of an earlier version of this deck can be seen here;
https://youtu.be/I9XmIfJ-g-A
And a newer video here;
https://youtu.be/mUmLMeqp17w
Most of these cards were pulled from a few previous decks, and as a mono-red fanboy I will always be improving my collection of mono-red "staples." One can track my deck pimpage here.
What do you all think? Is there any tech or unrealized potential that I'm missing with Chandra here? Is there any cards that you all would like me to playtest with and see how they work out?
Change Log and card testing
8/14/2015 - Flametongue Kavu came out in favor of Volcanic Visions after playtesting. Visions is a situational recovery spell but has proven to be fantastic.
8/19/2015 - Added Boseiju, Who Shelters All as well as re-adding Ancient Tomb (replacing two basic's). I had taken the tomb out as I didn't have many reasons for an explosive start, but chose to re-add it because having an odd # of basics agitated me.
8/22/2015 - Removing magmaquake per Kolmogorov's advice in favor of molten disaster. Potential split-second makes for a very nice effect in this deck when it comes to a game-ending spell.
8/28/2015 - removed Mindclaw Shaman in favor for Ravaging Blaze. While I do love Mindclaw, the functionality of this deck doesn't really have room for a card that may backfire so terribly. Mindclaw fits better in my kiki build than it does here.
Cards reserved for testing/needs
Cards being tested;
Arcbond - potentially a 3cmc post-combat board wipe. Plays well with Nicol Bolas, but the mana-to-results potential might make it a meaningful staple for mono-red.
Cards yet to tested but will be
Embermaw Hellion
Mizzium Mortars
Chandra's Ignition
Price of Progress
Ravaging Blaze
Re-re-reconsidering;
Pyromancer's Goggles. Stupid mana-cost and flavor aside the ability to copy a huge x-spell does win games.
Long-term needs;
Fetch + crucible package
gxsmiter had listed a few artifacts, but puppet strings is also good as it can be a combat deterrent to stop the opponents from attacking you.
Also intruder alarm makes stupid things happen fast, especially if you find some mana-combo or lower Gerry's activated ability cost.
What you've described is a fantastic model. But as one of those older players I'm still waiting for these important reprints.
I actually don't really care about the monetary value of what the decks have to offer. I understand that these precon's will never come with a grim monolith. What I think is terrible although is that something like armistice was reprinted and they chose to waste a rare-spot for it.
It feels like there is very little effort done for crafting a deck that can compete with anything other than another precon. I built a friend a $30 budget edh deck specifically because they didn't want to spend $30 on what cards were spoiled in the 2014 decklists. My rubbish little $30 deck has proven to stand up to most of our playgroups multi-tiered decks, but also consistently obliterate anyone who plays the precon against it.
The irony is that I am hardly as experienced of an EDH player as some of my other buddies. My rubbish budget deck has so much room for improvement, and possibly cheaper than what I invested into it. There are so many good yet very affordable cards that could be put into these precon's. Devastation Tide, Evacuation, and Wash Out seem like pretty obvious inclusions for less than a $ rare. But instead Distorting Wake gets a rare spot.
This is sort of hard to really explain in a very short statement. But this is what I want out of the 2015 decks - an actually thematic deck with not specifically terrible card choices. A budget reprint can be just as effective as a non-budget reprint, but including low-powered cards on purpose is not how to make a player better at the game. Developing "commander exclusive" cards that are rarely used in your average commander deck is not going to entice many to purchase a product.
I feel they already attempted this with Nahiri, the Lithomancer. Her abilities are all over the place, dictating a deck somewhere between equipment support and token generation (two archetypes that are not very compatible), with an out-of-reach ultimate that is made useless by a targetable bounce. IMO the design on her fails really hard. If she had some other white attribute (like enchantment removal) instead of the token generation, or instead of the equipment tech had temporary creature buffs or some lord emblem to make the tokens useful, she would be seeing more play.
The direction that most of last years preconstructed decks took were pretty much erratic.
There was an underlying theme of old important character in every precon...except for mono-black, which got two characters residing on zendikar. I get that they wanted to introduce Oby Nicholas, but then why Drana, who was already printed as a foil in an earlier precon? Volrath the Fallen would have been an ideal inclusion over Drana, and wouldn't have hurt on anyones wallet.
Likewise, if development were ever going directly support a mono-color'ed deck, specifically making unique mono-color EDH supporting cards, last years pre-constructed decks would have been the time to see this. You would think that if your making a mono-color deck than there would be some benefit for running 30+ basics of the same type. Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle comes to mind - a card that was not included in the mono-red precon. Designing something as simple as this supporting land for the other 4 colors would have been an ideal inclusion for a series of pre-con's that are all mono-color.
(and yes I understand that using valakut as an example might not be the best in regards to other current lands like Cabal Coffers. Still... oddly enough each 2014 precon came with a ghost quarter.)