My original opinion on the partner mechanic was very negative since I was so accustomed to a 99card deck format. The idea of adding options and multiple commander taxes still bugs me. But for one exception the partners just haven't impacted the format enough.
That one exception is obviously Thrasios. His mana cost and ability are too obnoxious. He either needed to tap per activation, or require colored mana to activate.
It's rare for a card to do as much as Thrasios did to the format. Some people like it, some like myself don't.
But again, past Thrasios, I'm fine with partners now. I'm even running Silvos&Trynn since they, to me, appear to be some of the worst mythic partners ever made, thus beckoning the hipster in me to give them a try.
The most recent card that's pulled some randomly good weight has been Heartwarming Redemption. I'm using it in a dega primevals' glorious rebirth deck, and it's been pretty good at all stages of the game.
It helps fill the yard early, it helps with random instant speed life-gain when the game is nearing an end and you're opponents are considering final combat math, and in my deck specifically it's a great tool to use when an opponent cyclonic rifts everything back, giving me more junk to toss while looking for a key card.
I really wish they gave Obuun any sort of key word, like trample, so it could make itself it's own threat. But 4cmc is a nice commander cost for a utility commander.
The first card I'd suggest would be Kamahl, Fist of Krosa as a sort of emergency backup commander to sandbag in hand if Obuun is ever permenatly answered, that way you can still animate lands previously counter'ed up.
It worked though... *points at the popularity of the format*
Idk about their involvement helping the formats popularity. Looking back over the past 8+ years my interest has grown mainly due to the loss of extended, the gradual decay of modern, the lack of legacy support, and a personal hatred for standard.
Many content creators have voiced a similar situation, where edh has kinda just defaulted to being popular since wotc has repeatedly made it clear that older formats are not how they make money.
On top of that, while I love the core flavor and concepts of edh, every time a needlessly random rule change or ban occurs, I just want the RC to stop tampering with the format.
It's understandable for those who control the banlist and rules for major formats like standard to tune and ban frequently, since they have event results, mtgo data, arena data, and access to hundreds of employees that can understand the dynamics of a format at any given time.
But a handful of people deciding rules for an entire format based on very little data and personal opinion is just bad.
A bit of a necro, but I remember reading this years ago and it's still a fun read.
I've ran Crosis as a commander on&off for a very long time. The floppy dragon is my 3rd favorite grixis commander (first being Gwendlyn Di Corci and second Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge. I've pushed Crosis as a superfriends commander, voltron beater, discard & reanimator, miller, and as of the most recent few years it's piloted a mnemonic betrayal twister loops style of deck (an outdated decklist).
White and green are the two colors I play the least, as I'm a bit of a mono-res/rakdoa/grixis fan, but there is always a growing collection of cards that I find hard to part with, so I've actually maintained a Treva deck for some time as well, which is more or less a cesspool of foils and promo cards. It's everything I hate about the power of green/blue/x decks in this format, but I like the cards and don't see myself getting rid of them, so it's easier to just stuff them in sleeves.
I'm also known for typically adding a 6cmc legendary dragon as "alternate" commander to a bunch of my decks (currently Dromar in an Alela dramatic scepter deck, Rorix Bladewing in a Pia artifact deck, Dragonlord Kolaghan in an exava voltron deck, Ramos in a golos deck, Oros + an extra land for my Trynn+Silvar deck, Kukusho in my Gonti deck, and Keiga for my Braids deck).
It's just a random thing I do just in case I end up playing with a table that may have slightly less powerful decks, so I can opt for a more casual experiance.
You are not overreacting at all. I've played with two of them in previous events and both exuded this feeling in person.
The unfortunate part is that after years of this with many people voicing similar opinions, there really hasn't been much change to how they advocate their format "should be played."
The best advice is for you and your local meta to develop your own banlist and regulate it as problems start showing up. Just make it fair to every member of your group, as some people like cards and strategies that others do not.
This has been my tables best approach. But it does cause problems when we go to events or stores and play with strangers. I run many many decks, so it's no problem for me to have a bag of edh decks specific for outings, but not all of my friends can afford this. They would rather keep their decks designed for our local meta and tend to just borrow from me when out.
Hello all - wanting to verify something regarding responding to General Kudro of Dranniths triggered ability, in the scenario where a human enters play under Kudros control, and then an opponents creature is killed.
I recall observing this on mtgo playback on a YouTube video, but a friend does not agree with it.
Tldr - if Kudro is in play, and a human enters play triggering his exile ability, would the owner of Kudro be able to retain priority and then use removal (such as activating Kudro) on an opponents creature, and then exiling that same creature with that pending ability?
We all missed that it was a state based action. This seems odd, being that the controller of a dying commander gets to make a choice of keeping their commander in the 'yard vs going to the command zone. State based actions are usually reserved for something an opponent can't control, like when choosing which legendary to keep when a duplicate shows up. Since the controller gets an opportunity to choose if the commander stays in the graveyard or not, this kinda seems like it should be a trigger on the stack that can be responded to. Especially since this entire change was all about death triggers.
It is also a bit of a flavor fail when a minor forgettable character in Elenda gets a rule change to make her card playable, while a massively important character who has appeared in physical literature gets skipped due to a technicality.
Some of the few positives my friends and I had discussed regarding this rules change included making the commander-only-printed card necromantic selection, and the plethora of shade's form/unholy indenture/minion's return style of cards actually useful. Guess those ideas are trashed.
The kokusho fear thing is more along the lines of having a combo engine. Going to the yard and/or command zone just opens up options for multiple lines of play. There are many rituals and tutors and reanimator spells and phyrexian reclamation style spells to cheapen commander tax, but only one Kukosho. Having access to her in the command zone in a dedicated deck that will cause trouble, and having the choice of reanimating her on one turn vs just recasting her on another will make for a consistent experience. In casual tables mono black also won't have much trouble building the mana to keep recasting a thick commander either.
For those interested here are the relevant commanders that care about dying; Anax, Axelrod (bad aristocrat loop, outdated due to Judith), Chevill (bounty on commanders), Child of Alara, Elenda, Jugan, Keiga, Kelsein (can get experience off pinging commander), Kokusho, Kresh (counts killing commanders), Lim-Dul (can steal commanders with command zone trigger on stack), Mathas (bounty on commanders), Gruul Omnath (damages when dies now), Roalesk, Ryusei, Yosie & TukTuk.
My main group has been discussing this and we all have two major opinions;
#1 sure, it's nice to enable a bunch of random legendaries.
#2 why was this deemed necessary in this day and age? With the rate of legendaries being printed? Do they know something about new cards coming out?
We talked about how R&D has designed cards built for commander with the original rules in mind. Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero is still fairly new, but with this new rule he wouldn't exile himself any more, and would probably just say "other" before the word "creatures." Is this something that the commitee talked about with R&D?
My entire group is also fairly concerned with how Kokusho, the Evening Star may end up re-banned. We remeber when she was banned and then unbanned. She is currently very fair being used within the 99, but will undoubtedly show up as an annoying commander now. The committee seems to not want unfun experiences in the format but I'm not sure they understand just how easy Kokusho can be exploited with this.
If the rumor that this rule change came about from one person high up wanting their own personal deck to work, and this ends up causing Kokusho to be re-banned, I'd pretty much loose all remaining faith I have in their capacity to regulate rules.
The one thing I am looking forward to is using Lim-Dûl the Necromancer to steal people's commanders tho.
I'm not seeing the need for this sort of rule change.
I like the idea of running previously unplayable guys, but wasn't Kokusho, the Evening Star banned not too long ago due to graveyard loop abuse? With newer cards it should be easier to make kokusho become one of those almost cedh commanders that trainrecks casuals.
This also changes how many removal spells work (burn away for example).
If you could combine a bunch of top-heavy first string creatures and lure or provoke effects (example Krosine Vorine) then you could try to build creature removal in to attacking for fun and profit.
I am running the labyrinth raptor in a fairly casual exava voltron edh deck, just for the evasive body. Probably worked better in a Greven deck.
A disagreement happened earlier tonight on zoom and we couldn't find any rules to verify, so asking here. In regards to a tapped Kalamax, the Stormsire, does the copy effect work if Kalamax is killed in response to their first instant?
For example, assume a tapped Kalamax, the Stormsire, owner casts a crop rotation and Kalamax's ability goes on the stack to try and copy the spell, but an opponent responds with a terminate on Kalamax.
Some of our party thought that since Kalamax was no longer in play, when it's ability to copy the spell checked to see if Kalamax was tapped, it would fail to find him thus not generate a copied spell.
The rules describing him at gatherer (here) do suggest a sort of awareness in terms of him being tapped vs untapped, say if an opponent casts an instant before Kalamax comes in to play or is tapped. But nothing specific to if he is killed off.
Being that my original post in this thread was a direct opinion for the original posters topic, (which he then replied to agreeing with), and everything after was me replying to your derailing rant, I'd have to disagree. The topics I introduced here were all in response to your earlier spam.
The topic created is about speculating how the committee may handle changing the rules or what new rules may come. This doesn't mean an exclusive conversation regarding the vintage banlist.
We've already shared our opinions, so how's about we don't make this topic more uninviting for actual conversation.
Yea take a chill pill man. I wasn't taking part in your discussion and whatever is going on that's making you go on such tilt. My posts were adding to the topic of this entire thread - speculation about the upcoming banlist adjustment, and my hopes and expectations.
Honestly why do you take such offense to half of the posts I make? You seem to take everything so personal, like my opinions are always directed at you and only you. I don't care about you or your opinions. I'm only on these forums to talk about the game.
That one exception is obviously Thrasios. His mana cost and ability are too obnoxious. He either needed to tap per activation, or require colored mana to activate.
It's rare for a card to do as much as Thrasios did to the format. Some people like it, some like myself don't.
But again, past Thrasios, I'm fine with partners now. I'm even running Silvos&Trynn since they, to me, appear to be some of the worst mythic partners ever made, thus beckoning the hipster in me to give them a try.
It helps fill the yard early, it helps with random instant speed life-gain when the game is nearing an end and you're opponents are considering final combat math, and in my deck specifically it's a great tool to use when an opponent cyclonic rifts everything back, giving me more junk to toss while looking for a key card.
The first card I'd suggest would be Kamahl, Fist of Krosa as a sort of emergency backup commander to sandbag in hand if Obuun is ever permenatly answered, that way you can still animate lands previously counter'ed up.
Cards like Life from the Loam, Terra Eternal and Sacred Ground will likely be good. Maybe some self-mill antics and Planar Birth/Splended Reclamation antics.
I haven't seen the card used in years but primeval bounty may also help load up a land while also supplying extra utility.
Idk about their involvement helping the formats popularity. Looking back over the past 8+ years my interest has grown mainly due to the loss of extended, the gradual decay of modern, the lack of legacy support, and a personal hatred for standard.
Many content creators have voiced a similar situation, where edh has kinda just defaulted to being popular since wotc has repeatedly made it clear that older formats are not how they make money.
On top of that, while I love the core flavor and concepts of edh, every time a needlessly random rule change or ban occurs, I just want the RC to stop tampering with the format.
It's understandable for those who control the banlist and rules for major formats like standard to tune and ban frequently, since they have event results, mtgo data, arena data, and access to hundreds of employees that can understand the dynamics of a format at any given time.
But a handful of people deciding rules for an entire format based on very little data and personal opinion is just bad.
I've ran Crosis as a commander on&off for a very long time. The floppy dragon is my 3rd favorite grixis commander (first being Gwendlyn Di Corci and second Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge. I've pushed Crosis as a superfriends commander, voltron beater, discard & reanimator, miller, and as of the most recent few years it's piloted a mnemonic betrayal twister loops style of deck (an outdated decklist).
White and green are the two colors I play the least, as I'm a bit of a mono-res/rakdoa/grixis fan, but there is always a growing collection of cards that I find hard to part with, so I've actually maintained a Treva deck for some time as well, which is more or less a cesspool of foils and promo cards. It's everything I hate about the power of green/blue/x decks in this format, but I like the cards and don't see myself getting rid of them, so it's easier to just stuff them in sleeves.
I'm also known for typically adding a 6cmc legendary dragon as "alternate" commander to a bunch of my decks (currently Dromar in an Alela dramatic scepter deck, Rorix Bladewing in a Pia artifact deck, Dragonlord Kolaghan in an exava voltron deck, Ramos in a golos deck, Oros + an extra land for my Trynn+Silvar deck, Kukusho in my Gonti deck, and Keiga for my Braids deck).
It's just a random thing I do just in case I end up playing with a table that may have slightly less powerful decks, so I can opt for a more casual experiance.
The unfortunate part is that after years of this with many people voicing similar opinions, there really hasn't been much change to how they advocate their format "should be played."
The best advice is for you and your local meta to develop your own banlist and regulate it as problems start showing up. Just make it fair to every member of your group, as some people like cards and strategies that others do not.
This has been my tables best approach. But it does cause problems when we go to events or stores and play with strangers. I run many many decks, so it's no problem for me to have a bag of edh decks specific for outings, but not all of my friends can afford this. They would rather keep their decks designed for our local meta and tend to just borrow from me when out.
I recall observing this on mtgo playback on a YouTube video, but a friend does not agree with it.
Tldr - if Kudro is in play, and a human enters play triggering his exile ability, would the owner of Kudro be able to retain priority and then use removal (such as activating Kudro) on an opponents creature, and then exiling that same creature with that pending ability?
It is also a bit of a flavor fail when a minor forgettable character in Elenda gets a rule change to make her card playable, while a massively important character who has appeared in physical literature gets skipped due to a technicality.
Some of the few positives my friends and I had discussed regarding this rules change included making the commander-only-printed card necromantic selection, and the plethora of shade's form/unholy indenture/minion's return style of cards actually useful. Guess those ideas are trashed.
The kokusho fear thing is more along the lines of having a combo engine. Going to the yard and/or command zone just opens up options for multiple lines of play. There are many rituals and tutors and reanimator spells and phyrexian reclamation style spells to cheapen commander tax, but only one Kukosho. Having access to her in the command zone in a dedicated deck that will cause trouble, and having the choice of reanimating her on one turn vs just recasting her on another will make for a consistent experience. In casual tables mono black also won't have much trouble building the mana to keep recasting a thick commander either.
My main group has been discussing this and we all have two major opinions;
#1 sure, it's nice to enable a bunch of random legendaries.
#2 why was this deemed necessary in this day and age? With the rate of legendaries being printed? Do they know something about new cards coming out?
We talked about how R&D has designed cards built for commander with the original rules in mind. Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero is still fairly new, but with this new rule he wouldn't exile himself any more, and would probably just say "other" before the word "creatures." Is this something that the commitee talked about with R&D?
My entire group is also fairly concerned with how Kokusho, the Evening Star may end up re-banned. We remeber when she was banned and then unbanned. She is currently very fair being used within the 99, but will undoubtedly show up as an annoying commander now. The committee seems to not want unfun experiences in the format but I'm not sure they understand just how easy Kokusho can be exploited with this.
If the rumor that this rule change came about from one person high up wanting their own personal deck to work, and this ends up causing Kokusho to be re-banned, I'd pretty much loose all remaining faith I have in their capacity to regulate rules.
The one thing I am looking forward to is using Lim-Dûl the Necromancer to steal people's commanders tho.
I like the idea of running previously unplayable guys, but wasn't Kokusho, the Evening Star banned not too long ago due to graveyard loop abuse? With newer cards it should be easier to make kokusho become one of those almost cedh commanders that trainrecks casuals.
This also changes how many removal spells work (burn away for example).
If you could combine a bunch of top-heavy first string creatures and lure or provoke effects (example Krosine Vorine) then you could try to build creature removal in to attacking for fun and profit.
I am running the labyrinth raptor in a fairly casual exava voltron edh deck, just for the evasive body. Probably worked better in a Greven deck.
For example, assume a tapped Kalamax, the Stormsire, owner casts a crop rotation and Kalamax's ability goes on the stack to try and copy the spell, but an opponent responds with a terminate on Kalamax.
Some of our party thought that since Kalamax was no longer in play, when it's ability to copy the spell checked to see if Kalamax was tapped, it would fail to find him thus not generate a copied spell.
The rules describing him at gatherer (here) do suggest a sort of awareness in terms of him being tapped vs untapped, say if an opponent casts an instant before Kalamax comes in to play or is tapped. But nothing specific to if he is killed off.
Being that my original post in this thread was a direct opinion for the original posters topic, (which he then replied to agreeing with), and everything after was me replying to your derailing rant, I'd have to disagree. The topics I introduced here were all in response to your earlier spam.
The topic created is about speculating how the committee may handle changing the rules or what new rules may come. This doesn't mean an exclusive conversation regarding the vintage banlist.
We've already shared our opinions, so how's about we don't make this topic more uninviting for actual conversation.
Honestly why do you take such offense to half of the posts I make? You seem to take everything so personal, like my opinions are always directed at you and only you. I don't care about you or your opinions. I'm only on these forums to talk about the game.