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  • posted a message on Rules Changes to Commander - Dies and Exile effects will trigger when going to Command Zone.
    We all missed that it was a state based action. This seems odd, being that the controller of a dying commander gets to make a choice of keeping their commander in the 'yard vs going to the command zone. State based actions are usually reserved for something an opponent can't control, like when choosing which legendary to keep when a duplicate shows up. Since the controller gets an opportunity to choose if the commander stays in the graveyard or not, this kinda seems like it should be a trigger on the stack that can be responded to. Especially since this entire change was all about death triggers.

    It is also a bit of a flavor fail when a minor forgettable character in Elenda gets a rule change to make her card playable, while a massively important character who has appeared in physical literature gets skipped due to a technicality.

    Some of the few positives my friends and I had discussed regarding this rules change included making the commander-only-printed card necromantic selection, and the plethora of shade's form/unholy indenture/minion's return style of cards actually useful. Guess those ideas are trashed.

    The kokusho fear thing is more along the lines of having a combo engine. Going to the yard and/or command zone just opens up options for multiple lines of play. There are many rituals and tutors and reanimator spells and phyrexian reclamation style spells to cheapen commander tax, but only one Kukosho. Having access to her in the command zone in a dedicated deck that will cause trouble, and having the choice of reanimating her on one turn vs just recasting her on another will make for a consistent experience. In casual tables mono black also won't have much trouble building the mana to keep recasting a thick commander either.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Rules Changes to Commander - Dies and Exile effects will trigger when going to Command Zone.
    For those interested here are the relevant commanders that care about dying; Anax, Axelrod (bad aristocrat loop, outdated due to Judith), Chevill (bounty on commanders), Child of Alara, Elenda, Jugan, Keiga, Kelsein (can get experience off pinging commander), Kokusho, Kresh (counts killing commanders), Lim-Dul (can steal commanders with command zone trigger on stack), Mathas (bounty on commanders), Gruul Omnath (damages when dies now), Roalesk, Ryusei, Yosie & TukTuk.

    My main group has been discussing this and we all have two major opinions;

    #1 sure, it's nice to enable a bunch of random legendaries.

    #2 why was this deemed necessary in this day and age? With the rate of legendaries being printed? Do they know something about new cards coming out?

    We talked about how R&D has designed cards built for commander with the original rules in mind. Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero is still fairly new, but with this new rule he wouldn't exile himself any more, and would probably just say "other" before the word "creatures." Is this something that the commitee talked about with R&D?

    My entire group is also fairly concerned with how Kokusho, the Evening Star may end up re-banned. We remeber when she was banned and then unbanned. She is currently very fair being used within the 99, but will undoubtedly show up as an annoying commander now. The committee seems to not want unfun experiences in the format but I'm not sure they understand just how easy Kokusho can be exploited with this.

    If the rumor that this rule change came about from one person high up wanting their own personal deck to work, and this ends up causing Kokusho to be re-banned, I'd pretty much loose all remaining faith I have in their capacity to regulate rules.

    The one thing I am looking forward to is using Lim-Dûl the Necromancer to steal people's commanders tho.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Rules Changes to Commander - Dies and Exile effects will trigger when going to Command Zone.
    I'm not seeing the need for this sort of rule change.

    I like the idea of running previously unplayable guys, but wasn't Kokusho, the Evening Star banned not too long ago due to graveyard loop abuse? With newer cards it should be easier to make kokusho become one of those almost cedh commanders that trainrecks casuals.

    This also changes how many removal spells work (burn away for example).
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Labyrinth Raptor and Menace
    There isn't much direct support for menace past this card, but it does work very well in an aggron build full of compliment creatures like dreamstealer, Kunoros, Hound of Athreos, donor spybug, cabal therapist and so on.

    If you could combine a bunch of top-heavy first string creatures and lure or provoke effects (example Krosine Vorine) then you could try to build creature removal in to attacking for fun and profit.

    I am running the labyrinth raptor in a fairly casual exava voltron edh deck, just for the evasive body. Probably worked better in a Greven deck.
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on Killing Kalamax in response to their first instant?
    A disagreement happened earlier tonight on zoom and we couldn't find any rules to verify, so asking here. In regards to a tapped Kalamax, the Stormsire, does the copy effect work if Kalamax is killed in response to their first instant?

    For example, assume a tapped Kalamax, the Stormsire, owner casts a crop rotation and Kalamax's ability goes on the stack to try and copy the spell, but an opponent responds with a terminate on Kalamax.

    Some of our party thought that since Kalamax was no longer in play, when it's ability to copy the spell checked to see if Kalamax was tapped, it would fail to find him thus not generate a copied spell.

    The rules describing him at gatherer (here) do suggest a sort of awareness in terms of him being tapped vs untapped, say if an opponent casts an instant before Kalamax comes in to play or is tapped. But nothing specific to if he is killed off.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Gonna be interesting watching the upcoming ban list update next week (reminder: vintage bans = illegal in EDH)
    Quote from DirkGently »
    toxic temper tantrum


    Being that my original post in this thread was a direct opinion for the original posters topic, (which he then replied to agreeing with), and everything after was me replying to your derailing rant, I'd have to disagree. The topics I introduced here were all in response to your earlier spam.

    The topic created is about speculating how the committee may handle changing the rules or what new rules may come. This doesn't mean an exclusive conversation regarding the vintage banlist.

    We've already shared our opinions, so how's about we don't make this topic more uninviting for actual conversation.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Gonna be interesting watching the upcoming ban list update next week (reminder: vintage bans = illegal in EDH)
    Yea take a chill pill man. I wasn't taking part in your discussion and whatever is going on that's making you go on such tilt. My posts were adding to the topic of this entire thread - speculation about the upcoming banlist adjustment, and my hopes and expectations.

    Honestly why do you take such offense to half of the posts I make? You seem to take everything so personal, like my opinions are always directed at you and only you. I don't care about you or your opinions. I'm only on these forums to talk about the game.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on I want to steal other people's things and especially their turns.
    Have you considered Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge as a commander? Most recent decks feature her as a competitive card-advantage option, but you can build around using her ability and big fun spells.

    I have a fairly outdated deck here that has a basic structure, which was originally themed similar to what you're interested in. Cards like sadistic sacrament can be cast from under Jeleva and you can actually pay the kicker for the additional effect. I used to run cards like lord of the void since the deck had a pile of haste enablers for Jeleva, and remember a few fun games where I was able to resolve a rite of replication on the lord, which really tends to perturb opponents.

    An even more enjoyable alternate win-con is to simply sacrifice & recast jeleva multiple times using cards like ashnod's altar. Her exile effect grows with every resolution, and if you've cast + resolved her 7 times in the same game then she would have exiled a total of 70 cards from all players. This should be enough to mill everyone out by that stage of the game, so you can just pass turn and let everyone draw-death.

    A word of warning tho - people tend to hate Jeleva due to how the games always play out. People hate exile-piling for you, and once you end up having to remind them it's all down-hill from there.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Gonna be interesting watching the upcoming ban list update next week (reminder: vintage bans = illegal in EDH)
    Quote from DirkGently »
    Yet still you all whine. And you're all so excited to have another excuse to say "whoops, looks like it was a huge mistake!" that you didn't even realize that IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SOLVING THIS PROBLEM. You just immediately knee-jerk "oh, there's a problem that's companion is related to? MAKING COMPANIONS WORK IN COMMANDER WAS A MISTAKE! What was the problem again?"


    My problem is not with the companion mechanic. I'm all for exploring new mechanics.

    My problem is with how they handled Lutri.

    I'm an advocate for shrinking the banlist and giving the format cards like Braids, Cabal Minion/Panoptic Mirror/Coalition Victory/Iona, Shield of Emeria/Paradox Engine/Erayo, Soratami Ascendant to work with. IMO none of these cards should be banned.

    Lutri shouldn't be banned as an optional commander or 99 inclusion. There is zero logical reason why Lutri can't be a commander when Naru Meha, Master Wizard exists. Not defining a use-as-commander vs in-99-specific banlist is getting absurd, because there absolutely is zero reason why Lutri can't be played in the 99.

    And really, the currently available companions are not adding too much to the format. Drastically limiting card selection by forcing odd/even only cmc, for a situational furnace of rath that dies to creature removal, or a really bad gamble at a situational reanimation spell? A simic draw spell that means you can't play staples like farseek and sakura-tribe elder? A 5-cmc mana-dork strictly worse than prismatic geoscope?

    If any would be banned then obviously it should be yorion, sky nomad, because it's pre-requesits just can't happen.

    Lurrus and maybe zirda/keruga have potential, but honestly these cards are just not very helpful for deck creation in this format.

    So after considering all this, IMO the easiest fix is simple. Just disable the companion mechanic in EDH.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Gonna be interesting watching the upcoming ban list update next week (reminder: vintage bans = illegal in EDH)
    It would be so much easier to just remove the companion mechanic from edh. Unban the otter and permit the legendary creatures to be used as commanders or in the 99 only. Clean and simple.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Brewing around Snapdax & looking for ideas.
    So after going over the mutate rules here and verifying here, I'm currently interested in Snapdax, Apex of the Hunt as a commander.

    In short, according to current rules at the time of this thread, it's possible to put Snapdax "under" an animated object like lavaclaw reaches, to have a 2/2 doublestrike kinda-firebreathing commander, that would be immune to sorcery speed creature removal, and can be activated as the same creature (still known to be commander) for later turns.

    While this doesn't seem incredibly powerful, a hard-to-remove double strike commander isn't something to ignore, so now I'm looking to make a deck around this.

    Here are some cards I've found that may be playable, some more than others;



    There are many other worse options (strictly worse vehicles, cards like Daxos's Torment, useless effects like ghitu encampemnt). Also some of the best cards don't work with mutate (gideon & mutavault being humans).

    Being a dega deck the colors we would have to work with, and this somewhat sneaky attack strategy, leans to a low-cmc control heavy deck, full of board wipes & disruption.

    If I do some etb hate I could run torpor orb effects and a phyrexian dreadnought for snapdax too, but that seems more like assembling a combo since it needs multiple parts.

    I've already started a list but would love to see/hear if anyone else has considered this approach?
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Mutate on temp creature question #2 - what happens when you re-animate the temp creature?
    I've gone over the rules and also the previous thread here, but I didn't see any comments on what happens if a temporary mutated creature is animated as a creature on a later turn.

    For example I'm considering a snapdax, apex of the hunt commander deck built around sticking it on man-lands such as lavaclaw reaches or other temporary things such as orzhov keyrune and haunted plate mail.

    For all context in my questions, snapdax is only being used to give double-strike to the animated creatures, thus always "under" the lavaclaw reaches, never actually being the face "top" creature. According to the rules, the mutated outcome would still be considered my commander for commander damage.

    Now for the question - what happens after the turn ends? What I've read says the permanent keeps the mutated properties, but if snapdax is "under" then lavaclaw reaches would stop being a creature.

    Most importantly - would I be able to re-animate the lavaclaw reaches and would it still be considered mutated, with double-strike, and my commander?
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Panoptic Mirror unban
    Per coalition victory;

    I have three 5-color decks and would never add coalition victory. Sure my mana in the decks is perfect for the card, but I would have to force myself to include duplicate 5-color creatures next to my general. And if I ever did display a coalition victory win then it's just another approach of the second sun effect where everyone is aware of it's presence and then gangs up on you. Your commander would be kill-on-site, and you make yourself the auto-target for random strip mine effects at all points in the game, which is awful for 5-color to deal with. If you include combo enablers like dryad of the ilysian grove/prismatic omen and chromanticore/transguild courier then building around coalition victory is no longer just an "I-win" card, it's a combo taking multiple dedicated slots in the 99.

    TLDR - a half good approach of the second sun deck will function far above a very good coalition victory deck.

    I may not be remembering this correctly, but one of the primary reasons braids & erayo were banned was due to complications with multiple ban-lists for MtGO.

    I've also gone on many rants about paradox engine already. Yes it's strong, but there were better options to ban for "unfun" situations. PE was one of the few enablers for tap-matters generals, and banning it took a large chunk of creativity and fun away from exploring commanders with tap abilities. The banning of PE opposed to so many other better options was what really shook my primary metas trust and faith in the committee, and was the spark that drove us to house-rules.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Looking for critiques / suggestion for Thassa, Deep-Dwelling
    Whir of Invention seems good here.

    When I tested Thassa I piled in a compliment of artifact tutors and etb value and often times just wanted to keep flickering solemn simulacrum. I also ran tezzeret in my list and all-too-frequently would just -4 him for solemn to set up for late game control.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
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