Why no one run lone revenant??
It's AMAZING Vs control and against ALL!!!
It's small, doesn't have evasion, and doesn't end the game quickly. The only thing it really has going for it is Hexproof, which makes it hard to deal with.
On SB: I haven't really looked at it much yet. I know mine will have Terminus #4, some number of Counterflux and/or Negate, and maybe 1-2 Rest in Peace. I'm not in love with Rest in Peace like you. It doesn't affect the board and honestly isn't as much of a Zombie hoser as many people seem to think. It hurts them, no doubt, but it isn't game-ending by any stretch. Plus, it's Abrupt Decay fodder.
I've been thinking of going with a Geist/Negate sideboard plan against Control. I've seen a lot of people try that in the current standard format with success. Geist is just really hard to deal with, especially when your mirror opponent expects you to be going heavy counters and card draw and sides out their sweepers, leaving them with basically no options to deal with a turn 3 Geist backed up by Negates.
And I really don't like think twice. I'd rather be running Izzet Charm all day every day. If nothing else, Izzet Charm gives me just as much dig as think twice without having to make the second payment. Think twice is such a small amount of draw in the first place, I'm 90% sure that the reason it's run is to help mana fixing or searching for that particular answer you really need right now, which Izzet Charm just does better while having other abilities that can occasionally come in handy. The only time I'd really rather not see the charm is in top deck mode, but if we ever enter that stage the game is pretty much over anyways. Sure, it makes miracling Terminus slightly easier, but I'm not banking on the miracle mechanic when I run the card. That's why I run a few alongside the four Verdicts, but not instead of them.
Izzet Charm is card disadvantage. You're using a card to draw 2 and discard 2, a net loss of a card. It digs well, and both other abilities are good to have, but it's not a card draw engine like Think Twice.
I run Think Twice because I want something to do early game when I need land, removal, or just have nothing better to spend mana on. Think Twice is practically perfect for that because you can pay the mana in installments, and get the draw whenever you want it at a very small price. Admittedly it would be better if we could run it alongside instant spot removal and counters, but neither of those are all that good right now so we have to take what we can get, namely Azorius Charm and Dissipate.
On Syncopate vs Dissipate: I like Syncopate early game, but we only really want counters against midrange and control. Against midrange it's basically a wash, Syncopate being better early and Dissipate being better late. Against control, Dissipate is clearly better. There's nothing to counter before turn 5ish anyways, so you always want the hard counter rather than the X counter. Against aggro it doesn't really matter much because you're probably siding them out either way.
I've been hearing a lot of dread and worry about Slaughter Games in the control threads... and I honestly have no idea why. Do people not remember that Memoricide saw ZERO play after Splinter Twin rotated out? Literally zero. Slaughter Games is the exact same card with a meaningless "cannot be countered" clause.
Izzet Charm is being overhyped as well. It's a good card, no doubt, but it's really not as good as many people think. It's a 2-mana Shock or a 2-mana Spell Pierce. While that's good, since options are always good, it's not oh-my-god-awesome good. The 3rd effect is card disadvantage so won't be used often, though it does dig 2 deep if you really really need to find an answer. Izzet Charm has really overshadowed Azorius Charm, which is easily the best of the charms in my opinion. Excommunicate for 2 mana is SICK.
Admittedly I haven't tested as much as I should, but I doubt Slaughter Games is going to be much of an issue. Memoricide saw almost no play, and Slaughter Games is essentially the same card. I still wouldn't go with only 1 wincon (Niv-Mizzet being the best) but I don't think it should be a driving force in our deckbuilding decisions otherwise.
I like your list overall Ellimist, but you've made some choices I don't really agree with. Some are personal preference, some are a future-meta call.
Counterflux? 4?: I don't like Counterflux main. It's basically a harder-to-cast Cancel in game 1 most of the time. In the sideboard it's great, and I do plan on running 2ish alongside 2 Negate for mirrors. I'm also not a fan of running 4 counters main deck. The meta we're heading into doesn't look very friendly to counterspells, especially 3-mana counterspells with no other relevant clauses like Dissipate has.
4 Snapcaster Mage: Don't like it. I don't even really like the 2 I have in my list. They're fine, and they're never terrible, but I would never want to run 4. If you get 2 in an opener it's pretty bad.
No Terminus: Don't like it. Terminus is amazing in this meta full of Hexproof, recurring, undying bullcrap creatures. It's slow, sure, but it deals with everything in the format when it resolves. Supreme Verdict would be better if Undying wasn't a thing, but unfortunately for control players, it is very much a thing.
Finishers: This part I do like, though I would definitely run 2 Niv-Mizzet alongside the 1-of Gisela/Drogskol. I"m also coming around to Gisela. I was terrified of Zealous Conscripts originally, but I realized that being afraid of a singleton out of the sideboard (probably) is pretty silly. She's the fastest clock we have. I also agree on Entreat. It's awful just as often as it is amazing. I'm going to replace my Entreat with a Gisela and see how it feels.
UB really isn't viable. It would have to be based on spot removal and counterspells since you haven't got access to a good sweeper, and counterspells and spot removal have never been worse in magic's history than they are right now. Hexproof, Undying, Cavern of Souls, uncounterable spells... you get the point.
Here's the problem for Zombies, what do they intend to do when a deck's 2-drop dudes are Knight Of Glory, Thalia, and a sided-in Elite Inquisitor? or even Precinct Captain? That army of 1 and 2 toughness dudes are suddenly facing down the same thing, except on guys who have first strike and/or protection from them...
Hell if Zombies become super rampant there's even Diregraf Escort and Holy Justiciar.
Let's not forget about Riders Of Gavony.
That's why Jund and not BG is going to be the de-facto Zombies build. Without Red you are much easier to stop. With Red, you can remove most of the common problems with Pillar (amazing in the mirror!), Flames of the Firebrand, and Bonfire.
I like Azorius Keyrune, it actually fits the curve very well. Turn 1/2 removal, turn 3 keyrune, turn 4 Thundermaw Hellkite or Tamiyo. It even doubles as a decent manland.
Why Cremate? Sideboard card at best, and even then there are better options.
Why the random Temporal Mastery? This card is bad in Standard.
I don't like 8 sweepers, especially when 'Plan A' is Sorin + Lingering Souls.
Why no Forbidden Alchemy, Think Twice, or Sphinx's Revelation. These are all good draw spells that deserve spots.
Not a big fan of running 8 O Rings main deck. They're pretty bad against certain decks (BG mostly, Abrupt Decay). I'd probably run the 4-pack of Detention Spheres and maybe 1-2 O Ring side, depending on meta.
After dogging on the card recently... I've got to say, I am very surprised at how potent Azorius Charm is. I vastly underestimated how good it is to make an opponent skip their draw step and have to replay their guy. I'm going to squeeze at least 2 into my build, and I'd like to have 3-4. Izzet Charm is a likely cut candidate.
I also agree on Terminus vs Verdict. I started at 3 Verdict/2 Terminus, I think I'm going to switch those numbers around and see how it goes. Zombies is going to be VERY popular since it was cheap to build months ago and a lot of people have the cards on hand already minus shocks, lol troll etc.
Azorius Charm really isn't where you want to be. Like pandafarmer said, the only reason to go 5cc over UWx is to gain access to Dreadbore, Abrupt Decay, and maybe Thragtusk.
(I have no idea if this deck works, I typed it up in 5 minutes)
The premise basically being drop a turn 3 Lantern to ramp into Tamiyo, Thragtusk, Sigarda, or Hellkite, then ride it to victory with the plethora of removal available.
But Thoughtflare costs 5... it's not Forbidden Alch..
I'm currently running a 4 Think Twice, 3 Az Charm, 2 Iz Charm draw engine and I think that's enough. If you want dig, Iz Charm can do that just fine, and pack more utility than just a 5-cost 4dig card.
I wouldn't even count the Charms as draw spells. You're running them for the other effects, the draw/dig is just an extra if you have nothing better to do with the spell.
I'm looking at 4 Think Twice, 2 Thoughtflare, 1 Sphinx's Revelation for my draw spells right now. It's a little top heavy, but I definitely want the large draw spells to ensure my late game is superior to my opponent's.
Fettergeist is absolutely not where you want to be. If you want a midrange creature just run Geist, or play a different deck. For defense I'd rather have Fog Bank or Augur of Bolas, neither of which I would play in this deck anyways.
I'm also not a big fan of Bonfire or Mizzium Mortars here. They're both fine cards, but we really can't take advantage of a non-symmetrical sweeper, which is the main advantage of them. If you're just casting them on an empty board (which will be the case 80% of the time) why aren't you just running more Terminus/Verdict instead? They're better and more cost efficient. I'm running Mortars as a 1-of right now for Tamiyo shenanigans.
Doesn't anyone see that Cyclonic Rift is just ridiculously overpowered? Yes, I know it doesnt replace itself, but it helps survive against some attackers, giving you a little advanatge until you reach the overload point. Eot overload or after combat/adversary tapped out means you pretty much one side bury them. I think Control decks should be packing 4 of these. You want to see them every stage of the game, all the way to overload.
It's card disadvantage, and only temporarily deals with things. The only reason I run the singleton is because it's the stone-cold nuts with Tamiyo ultimate. We're entering into a format which looks to be much more focused on card advantage and board states, rather than tempo. Cyclonic Rift just isn't that good in a format like that. You can't throw away a card just to stall a threat for a turn. You need to DEAL with that threat, permanently.
Valuetown, population: YOU.
It's small, doesn't have evasion, and doesn't end the game quickly. The only thing it really has going for it is Hexproof, which makes it hard to deal with.
On SB: I haven't really looked at it much yet. I know mine will have Terminus #4, some number of Counterflux and/or Negate, and maybe 1-2 Rest in Peace. I'm not in love with Rest in Peace like you. It doesn't affect the board and honestly isn't as much of a Zombie hoser as many people seem to think. It hurts them, no doubt, but it isn't game-ending by any stretch. Plus, it's Abrupt Decay fodder.
I've been thinking of going with a Geist/Negate sideboard plan against Control. I've seen a lot of people try that in the current standard format with success. Geist is just really hard to deal with, especially when your mirror opponent expects you to be going heavy counters and card draw and sides out their sweepers, leaving them with basically no options to deal with a turn 3 Geist backed up by Negates.
Izzet Charm is card disadvantage. You're using a card to draw 2 and discard 2, a net loss of a card. It digs well, and both other abilities are good to have, but it's not a card draw engine like Think Twice.
I run Think Twice because I want something to do early game when I need land, removal, or just have nothing better to spend mana on. Think Twice is practically perfect for that because you can pay the mana in installments, and get the draw whenever you want it at a very small price. Admittedly it would be better if we could run it alongside instant spot removal and counters, but neither of those are all that good right now so we have to take what we can get, namely Azorius Charm and Dissipate.
On Syncopate vs Dissipate: I like Syncopate early game, but we only really want counters against midrange and control. Against midrange it's basically a wash, Syncopate being better early and Dissipate being better late. Against control, Dissipate is clearly better. There's nothing to counter before turn 5ish anyways, so you always want the hard counter rather than the X counter. Against aggro it doesn't really matter much because you're probably siding them out either way.
Izzet Charm is being overhyped as well. It's a good card, no doubt, but it's really not as good as many people think. It's a 2-mana Shock or a 2-mana Spell Pierce. While that's good, since options are always good, it's not oh-my-god-awesome good. The 3rd effect is card disadvantage so won't be used often, though it does dig 2 deep if you really really need to find an answer. Izzet Charm has really overshadowed Azorius Charm, which is easily the best of the charms in my opinion. Excommunicate for 2 mana is SICK.
Counterflux? 4?: I don't like Counterflux main. It's basically a harder-to-cast Cancel in game 1 most of the time. In the sideboard it's great, and I do plan on running 2ish alongside 2 Negate for mirrors. I'm also not a fan of running 4 counters main deck. The meta we're heading into doesn't look very friendly to counterspells, especially 3-mana counterspells with no other relevant clauses like Dissipate has.
4 Snapcaster Mage: Don't like it. I don't even really like the 2 I have in my list. They're fine, and they're never terrible, but I would never want to run 4. If you get 2 in an opener it's pretty bad.
No Terminus: Don't like it. Terminus is amazing in this meta full of Hexproof, recurring, undying bullcrap creatures. It's slow, sure, but it deals with everything in the format when it resolves. Supreme Verdict would be better if Undying wasn't a thing, but unfortunately for control players, it is very much a thing.
Finishers: This part I do like, though I would definitely run 2 Niv-Mizzet alongside the 1-of Gisela/Drogskol. I"m also coming around to Gisela. I was terrified of Zealous Conscripts originally, but I realized that being afraid of a singleton out of the sideboard (probably) is pretty silly. She's the fastest clock we have. I also agree on Entreat. It's awful just as often as it is amazing. I'm going to replace my Entreat with a Gisela and see how it feels.
That's why Jund and not BG is going to be the de-facto Zombies build. Without Red you are much easier to stop. With Red, you can remove most of the common problems with Pillar (amazing in the mirror!), Flames of the Firebrand, and Bonfire.
What are we replacing though?
Why the random Temporal Mastery? This card is bad in Standard.
I don't like 8 sweepers, especially when 'Plan A' is Sorin + Lingering Souls.
Why no Forbidden Alchemy, Think Twice, or Sphinx's Revelation. These are all good draw spells that deserve spots.
Not a big fan of running 8 O Rings main deck. They're pretty bad against certain decks (BG mostly, Abrupt Decay). I'd probably run the 4-pack of Detention Spheres and maybe 1-2 O Ring side, depending on meta.
I also agree on Terminus vs Verdict. I started at 3 Verdict/2 Terminus, I think I'm going to switch those numbers around and see how it goes. Zombies is going to be VERY popular since it was cheap to build months ago and a lot of people have the cards on hand already minus shocks, lol troll etc.
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
Planeswalkers:
3 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Pillar of Flame
3 Think Twice
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Dreadbore
2 Detention Sphere
3 Lingering Souls
3 Supreme Verdict
1 Terminus
1 Sphinx's Revelation
(I have no idea if this deck works, I typed it up in 5 minutes)
The premise basically being drop a turn 3 Lantern to ramp into Tamiyo, Thragtusk, Sigarda, or Hellkite, then ride it to victory with the plethora of removal available.
I wouldn't even count the Charms as draw spells. You're running them for the other effects, the draw/dig is just an extra if you have nothing better to do with the spell.
I'm looking at 4 Think Twice, 2 Thoughtflare, 1 Sphinx's Revelation for my draw spells right now. It's a little top heavy, but I definitely want the large draw spells to ensure my late game is superior to my opponent's.
I'm also not a big fan of Bonfire or Mizzium Mortars here. They're both fine cards, but we really can't take advantage of a non-symmetrical sweeper, which is the main advantage of them. If you're just casting them on an empty board (which will be the case 80% of the time) why aren't you just running more Terminus/Verdict instead? They're better and more cost efficient. I'm running Mortars as a 1-of right now for Tamiyo shenanigans.
It's card disadvantage, and only temporarily deals with things. The only reason I run the singleton is because it's the stone-cold nuts with Tamiyo ultimate. We're entering into a format which looks to be much more focused on card advantage and board states, rather than tempo. Cyclonic Rift just isn't that good in a format like that. You can't throw away a card just to stall a threat for a turn. You need to DEAL with that threat, permanently.