I am confused by this statement in the original post
"Pyromancer in particular quickly gets out of hand once twinflame has been cast a couple of times."
How is twinflame being cast multiple times? Even if you target your commander copies go on the stack, not cast, so young pyro only triggers once. Even with flash back from somethign like past in flames etc you're only getting 1-3 cast out of this thing. and 3 1/1s doesn't seem like that much.
Okay so 1 and 2 are what we thought.
3 is still the one that we can't agree on because we feel we've seen plenty of people play differently in similar situations that don't involve malignus. Such as
I have a Terastodon on the board
I go to combat, declare Terastodon as attacker
opponent assigns no blockers
I cast Giant Growth (+4/+4 until end of turn, just a non variable version of Xenagos' ability)
Opponent lets it resolve
I pass priority before damage
Opponent cast Turn To Frog and only 1 damage gets dealt
so either several of us have seen this done in error multiple times or we're missing why Xenago's would work differently in this situation.
So how does Xenagos, God of Revels ability work with variable power creatures?
example Xenagos, God of Revels and Malignus are on the board. Highest life total among opponents is 40 (EDH). So Malignus is a 20/20.
Goto combat.
Xenagos ability triggers, targeting Malignus. Everyone lets it resolve.
Questions.
1. Is Malignus a 40/40 or still a 20/20 since his card reads that his power and toughness are always equal to the highest lifetotal?
2. If he is a 40/40 (yes to question 1) and the opponent with 40 life changes his life total does this change Malignus power and toughness and do away with Xenagos +x/+x?
3. If someone turns Malignus into a 1/1 frog does he still get the +20/+20 from Xenagos, or does he just become a +1/+1 frog?
I'm sure this is an easy question, just a lot of my play group disagrees on what happens.
After blockers are declared (albeit forceably), priority passes to attacker.
Attacker cast Stave Off, defender has no response so passes priority, as Stave Off resolves attacker declares "black" as the protection color.
My question is...do all the defenders vampires die because of the Wooden Stake ? Stave Off giving the Lumberknot protection from black seems to make the blockers "invalid" so i'm not sure that they are still considered to be blocking for the triggered event of the Wooden Stake
Or
Are the cards destroyed right after the declare blockers step before stave off was even cast since Wooden Stake's text seems like it triggers as soon as it is blocked.
I say he would, however the text on the card confuses us.
The card specifically mentions activating abilities of enchantments and we can't think of any enchantments that have activatable abilities on them.
The Image's ability does not target anything (you can tell because the Image's ability does not use the word 'target' and it is not an aura on the stack). Since it does not target anything, you can copy the Dragon just fine.
You don't choose what the Image will copy until it would enter the battlefield. If you cast the Image, this would be while the Image is resolving.
There is a example in the Tournament Shortcuts section of the Magic Tournament Rules that says if a player makes a choice during announcement that's not normally made until the spell would resolve, if the opponent does nothing in response, they have to stick to that choice. So if they cast the Image and they say what creature they're going to copy and you don't respond, they cannot choose to copy a different creature (if you did respond with something, they could choose a different creature to copy).
it says "if a player makes a choice...."
do they have to?
Can someone just cast Phantasmal Image without selecting a target until it resolves, leaving it up to the opponent to guess/assume which one ?
Phantasmal Image doesn't target anything. He just casts phantasmal image - possibly announcing that he intends to copy the lord if it resolves. If the lord of the unreal gets shocked in response, he can copy the phantasmal dragon when his image resolves, and it will have two copies of the illusion ability that causes it to be sacrificed when it gets targeted.
So the copying ability of the Phantasmal Image doesn't affect the Phantasmal Dragon's clause that says if it's the target of a spell or ability it is destroyed?
Also when is the caster of Phantasmal Image locked into choosing what he/she copies? Because it seems like they could declare their intent to copy a 2/2 creature, I pass priority then they change their mind....but them declaring copying a 5/5, me removing the 5/5 from play, and them getting to choose a new copy seems crazy too.
Okay then how would this have resolved.
Active Player has Phantasmal Dragon in play.
Active Player casts Lord of Illusion
I pass on my priority
He pases
Creature resolves and is now on the battlefield.
Active Player casts Phantasmal Image targeting the Lord of Illusion he has on the battle field
My priority - I shock the Lord of Illusion
His priority - he has nothing to do.
Creature spells can only normally be cast during one of your main phases when the stack is empty. Unless the creature has flash, it is not possible to have three creature spells on the stack at the same time. So they would have to cast the Lord, let it resolve, then cast the Image, let it resolve, then cast the second Image. So you can remove the Lord in response to the first Lord.
In addition, all players get priority after each spell or ability has resolved. You don't resolve the stack, you resolve each spell or ability on the stack individually.
So he casts lord.
I can counter
Then he casts whatever, in this case he wouldn't have casts the Phatasms if I had killed the lord.
I thought i got priority after all creatures were done summoning, not after each creature is casts.
So just to clarify 100%
persons turn casts A creature, opponent gets priority to react.
persons turn casts Another creature if able, opponent gets priority...correct?
You could have responded to the first Image by bouncing the Lord. Since the Lord is not on the battlefield when the Image resolves, they would not be able to choose to copy that creature (they could choose any other creature on the battlefield).
How does this work (sorry to be a noob).
I thought I didn't get priority until after he's done casting summons, so if at the start of his main phase he only has one creature card in play and it's an illusion Phantasmal Dragon in this case. He then casts Lord of Illusions, and his 2 images. It's now my prioirty during his main phase right? If I would have Shocked the lord of illusion would they not have been able to copy him? If yes...then the only other target would be another illusion, if they targeted it wouldn't the dragon and both of the Phantasmals die?
Yes, there are ways to destroy them - though they can't be targeted.
All aura spells target on the stack, so you can't use brink of disaster.
You get priority with the phantasmal image on the stack, before it resolves. If you destroy the original Lord of the Unreal before the image resolves, he'll have to choose something else to copy. The top object of the stack doesn't resolve until both players pass priority. The end of the main phase isn't the only time you get priority during that phase, unless no one does anything during it.
Day of Judgement, Call to the Grave and Small Pox would all work, even after the pair of image-lords were on the battlefield.
Do I get priority after each creature is casts? or does he get to casts all creatures then I get priority?
So this happened to me in a game today, I was drawing poorly so it's not like this can happen every time, but it seems like once it does it's tough to stop.
Is there any way to kill those Illusions of Lord of Illusion other than through normal creature vs creature combat dmg?
Do the Phantasmal Image of the Lord of Illusions disappear if I destroy the Lord of Illusion?
Would Brink of Disaster be usable on it? the card text doesn't specifically say "target" like many cards, didn't know if this semantic difference counts.
Since he had enough mana to summon all of them in his main phase could I have unsummoned/destroyed the original lord of illusion in my priority at the end of his main phase preventing the Lord of Illusion from being on the battlefield?
"Pyromancer in particular quickly gets out of hand once twinflame has been cast a couple of times."
How is twinflame being cast multiple times? Even if you target your commander copies go on the stack, not cast, so young pyro only triggers once. Even with flash back from somethign like past in flames etc you're only getting 1-3 cast out of this thing. and 3 1/1s doesn't seem like that much.
Thank you all for your quick answers as always.!
3 is still the one that we can't agree on because we feel we've seen plenty of people play differently in similar situations that don't involve malignus. Such as
I have a Terastodon on the board
I go to combat, declare Terastodon as attacker
opponent assigns no blockers
I cast Giant Growth (+4/+4 until end of turn, just a non variable version of Xenagos' ability)
Opponent lets it resolve
I pass priority before damage
Opponent cast Turn To Frog and only 1 damage gets dealt
so either several of us have seen this done in error multiple times or we're missing why Xenago's would work differently in this situation.
example
Xenagos, God of Revels and Malignus are on the board. Highest life total among opponents is 40 (EDH). So Malignus is a 20/20.
Goto combat.
Xenagos ability triggers, targeting Malignus. Everyone lets it resolve.
Questions.
1. Is Malignus a 40/40 or still a 20/20 since his card reads that his power and toughness are always equal to the highest lifetotal?
2. If he is a 40/40 (yes to question 1) and the opponent with 40 life changes his life total does this change Malignus power and toughness and do away with Xenagos +x/+x?
3. If someone turns Malignus into a 1/1 frog does he still get the +20/+20 from Xenagos, or does he just become a +1/+1 frog?
I'm sure this is an easy question, just a lot of my play group disagrees on what happens.
Thanks
Munch
Attacking player declares attacker
Lumberknot (no counters)
with Wooden Stake equipped
with Lure
Game state passes to Declare Blockers, because of Lure everything that can block does...
Defender has (untapped and available to block):
Bloodline Keeper
2/2 Vampire Token
Bloodseeker
After blockers are declared (albeit forceably), priority passes to attacker.
Attacker cast Stave Off, defender has no response so passes priority, as Stave Off resolves attacker declares "black" as the protection color.
My question is...do all the defenders vampires die because of the Wooden Stake ? Stave Off giving the Lumberknot protection from black seems to make the blockers "invalid" so i'm not sure that they are still considered to be blocking for the triggered event of the Wooden Stake
Or
Are the cards destroyed right after the declare blockers step before stave off was even cast since Wooden Stake's text seems like it triggers as soon as it is blocked.
Thanks
Munch
So what enchantment abilities would the GA block? We can't think of any enchantments that have activatable abilities.
Thanks
Would this stop curses?
If I play a Curse of the Pierced Heart on my turn on my opponent.
My opponent has a Grand Abolisher in play, on his turn does he take damage from the curse?
I say he would, however the text on the card confuses us.
The card specifically mentions activating abilities of enchantments and we can't think of any enchantments that have activatable abilities on them.
Thanks
it says "if a player makes a choice...."
do they have to?
Can someone just cast Phantasmal Image without selecting a target until it resolves, leaving it up to the opponent to guess/assume which one ?
So the copying ability of the Phantasmal Image doesn't affect the Phantasmal Dragon's clause that says if it's the target of a spell or ability it is destroyed?
Also when is the caster of Phantasmal Image locked into choosing what he/she copies? Because it seems like they could declare their intent to copy a 2/2 creature, I pass priority then they change their mind....but them declaring copying a 5/5, me removing the 5/5 from play, and them getting to choose a new copy seems crazy too.
Active Player has Phantasmal Dragon in play.
Active Player casts Lord of Illusion
I pass on my priority
He pases
Creature resolves and is now on the battlefield.
Active Player casts Phantasmal Image targeting the Lord of Illusion he has on the battle field
My priority - I shock the Lord of Illusion
His priority - he has nothing to do.
What happens?
Sorry if i'm being dense about all of this.
So he casts lord.
I can counter
Then he casts whatever, in this case he wouldn't have casts the Phatasms if I had killed the lord.
I thought i got priority after all creatures were done summoning, not after each creature is casts.
So just to clarify 100%
persons turn casts A creature, opponent gets priority to react.
persons turn casts Another creature if able, opponent gets priority...correct?
How does this work (sorry to be a noob).
I thought I didn't get priority until after he's done casting summons, so if at the start of his main phase he only has one creature card in play and it's an illusion Phantasmal Dragon in this case. He then casts Lord of Illusions, and his 2 images. It's now my prioirty during his main phase right? If I would have Shocked the lord of illusion would they not have been able to copy him? If yes...then the only other target would be another illusion, if they targeted it wouldn't the dragon and both of the Phantasmals die?
Do I get priority after each creature is casts? or does he get to casts all creatures then I get priority?
Double-post merged. -Carsten
We're playing restricted to m12 (for various reasons) what happened was this.
Opponent : Plays Lord of Illusion
Opponent: Cast Phantasmal Image on Lord of Illusion
Opponent: Cast Phantasmal Image on Lord of Illusion
My Priority: still nothing to do
So now what he has is:
A real Lord Of Illusion that is a 2/2
2 Illusions ofLord of Illusion that are 5/5 (2/2 base, +1/+1 for the original Lord of Illusion and +1/+1 for each of the Illusions of Lord of Illusion.) that are also hexproof.
Is there any way to kill those Illusions of Lord of Illusion other than through normal creature vs creature combat dmg?
Do the Phantasmal Image of the Lord of Illusions disappear if I destroy the Lord of Illusion?
Would Brink of Disaster be usable on it? the card text doesn't specifically say "target" like many cards, didn't know if this semantic difference counts.
Since he had enough mana to summon all of them in his main phase could I have unsummoned/destroyed the original lord of illusion in my priority at the end of his main phase preventing the Lord of Illusion from being on the battlefield?
It seems like in M12 cards the only cards I can find that would destroy these Phantasmal Illusions are Day of Judgement, Call to the Grave and Small Pox
Hexproof illusions are beasts it seems!
Thanks for the help (again) this place is invaluable for learning all of the ins and outs of the game.