I mentioned this to King Shane in one of the UW spirit threads, but I don't think he saw it. I am a currently running a U/W spirits deck and was testing on cockatrice against a subpar U/W Humans player. However, he had a card that I did not expect to be so good against my deck and made me have to play around it - Urgent Exorcism. I would have thought this to be primarily good for limited due to its narrow usage. But if U/W spirits becomes big, its a nice SB card against it. Basically it takes out anthems, O-rings, destiny/mantle as well as taking out the spirit captain (if only one is out). Worst case scenario you can target another non-geist spirit if the captain isn't out. I am doing U/W spirits so its not like I want people to have useful tools against us, but I think having these things exposed will only make us stronger in the long run as we learn to deal with it. I am already considering it SB in my deck for the mirror or even possibly against B/W tokens as well. My thought with B/W tokens is that they might want to side out normal doom blades for this against U/W spirits because almost everything is still killed (except angel or hexproof spirits - of course hexproof spirits were already safe from doom blade etc) plus you can hit our many enchantments.
What do you think?
Thanks!
I didnt see the post, and must have skimmed over that card a dozen times in the spoilers because I have never seen it, so thank you! I will definitely grab four copies and keep them around in case UW spirits ever becomes popular at my local meta.
I have a question about the card Fling.
People run brimstone for 3cmc 3 damage with a conditional five. If Wildblood Pack were to attack, would I be able to fling it at my opponent for 8+ damage at the end of the combat step after the damage resolved or would his +3 fall off the stack before I could cast?
Imagine
T4 Instigator Gang
T5 FMR, Moonmist if he didnt flip. Opponent tries to snag/gftt instigator, Ranger's Guile if you can to stop snag, or else sac FMR to regenerate removal. If it was Ranger's Guile that resolved, swing in for 10 (guile+FMR). Fling it right after for 10.
I am uncertain as to how the stack in combat works outside of priority attackers and whatnot, would the former theory be possible?
This isn't the correct forum for rules questions, use the Magic Rulings subforum. Thread closed.
Young Wolf simply is not as good as Captive...its not even close. Captive = Basking Rootwalla....Young Wolf at the very best = Grizzly Bear. Captive can actually block, kill and survive a geist. A 1/1 for 1 that may become a 2/2 with no abilities is not impressive.
As for Brimstone Volley...it.is.an.INSTANT. Arc Trail is a BAD sorcery...Tokens...Tokens are going to be the big deck. WTF are you gonna do? Arc trail 2 of your dudes...oh right...you make 7 more next turn...I guess I lose. Trample damage + Morbid triggers + Brimstone Volley = beating aggro
Arc Trail is more targeted towards Delver heavy metas, where it is amazing. Flipped or unflipped, you kill it and something else or ping the enemy player.
I apologize in advance if the card Fling has already been discussed, but I have a question about it.
People run brimstone for 3 mana with a conditional five. If Wildblood Pack were to attack, would I be able to fling it at my opponent for 8+ damage at the end of the combat step after the damage resolved or would his +3 fall off the stack before I could cast?
Imagine
T4 Instigator
T5 FMR, Moonmist if he didnt flip. Opponent tries to snag/gftt instigator, Ranger's Guile if you can to stop snag, or else sac FMR to regenerate removal. If it was Ranger's Guile that resolved, swing in for 10 (guile+FMR). Fling it right after for 10.
I am uncertain as to how the stack in combat works outside of priority attackers and whatnot, would the former theory be possible?
Okay I'm sorry but will everyone put their ego's away? I'm drowning over here in snide remarks and poor jokes while trying to work out what I want to do with my BW deck and the why behind it.
We get it Ratchet is a pain in the rear but Stony Silence is a nice little suprise for most people because it is generally viewed as unplayable (at least in the small magic circles I travel in). Will this last for long? Who knows. Things could be so different in two weeks that R-bomb and Stony Silence wont even be considered. So why not play through the next couple weeks and be adaptive as the meta evolves rather then saying 'oh this is always going to suck'.
How are people feeling on Tragic slip? SOrry if this was mentioned before, I just dont remember seeing it.
I've done little testing with it, and that's because I disliked it immediately. We arent RDW, we can just kill things regardless of toughness. Every time I drew it I wished it was a doom blade unless it was a T1 response to delver. Waiting for morbid can be a pain, and often results in you sacrificing one of your tokens in a blocking to trigger it, which always irritated me. I could have just doom bladed the sun titan instead of letting it kill a token and then casting tragic slip.
Get around Stony Silence? Check. (O-ring, unhosed sweepers)
Counter Despise? Check. (Mana Leak and optionally Mental Misstep)
Control your walkers? Check. (Mana Leak, Dissipate, O-ring, Devil's Play, BV)
Wipe the board three times in 6 turns? Game 2, check. (Whipflare, Slag, Day, Ratchet)
While I can't vouch for the pilots, every match I've played agains BW Tokens was a walk in the park. And keep in mind a sweeper isn't necessary if I Dissipate your Lingering Souls or Leak your Sorin/Hero. Two sweepers in the first 4-5 turns is quite common game 2, and I have a crapload of card draw for afterward. And Despise is practically a dead card for you, as is Doom Blade/Go for the Throat and Dismember.
Three color control deck was cute, made me smile. =)
Wait.... what? How does Divine Offering stop Ratchet Bomb? Maybe you're winning against Ratchet Bomb because no one in your meta understands how the stack and priority works?
Ugh.
Steel Sabotage does not equal Divine Offering. My bad on the confusion.
Ive only ran revoke existence and stony silence, I dont know how or why I was drawing steel sabotage tech into Divine.
Everyone point and laugh at King_Shane.
Stack confusion wasnt the problem, after playing RDW you learn to pop a shrine when it is targeted, and save mana to do so if needed.
Back to discussion- Either way Ratchet Bomb has yet to cost me a game.
And I also mean no offense but your "super competitive" fnm is cute and all but im prepping for scg this weekend. Assuming poor piloting skills is far far from the truth and the fact you even made this assumption versus the truth that the deck and other unproven decks are tested against the meta with cross-piloting (all competent) kinda leaves me with the impression that your at the "serious but fnm" level which there is nothing wrong with and more power to you if you do pick up top 8s with it but at the "next level" you have to win out better then x(6-9)-2 usually to even make the second day. Every hole in the list becomes a much more serious problem when you have to play that many games.
Here is Conleys list as you asked, I had the pleasure of sitting next to him in one of the x-0 rounds, while you seem to not even be aware of whats in the list??....
I mean you can insult the strawman pilot all you want or go on a rant about despise and other nonsense or you can evaluate the input I have for what its worth or chose to ignore it which I think is a huge mistake
but I am very very confident in these evaluations and we will see at scg this weekend but im leaving my bw tokens at home (or bringing it to sell)
This is cute and all but again, island gives you access to leak and possibly negate and moorland haunt helps you rebuild your position much better then even the best bw has to offer like lingering souls, AND if you even followed results from SCG and modo you would see B/R lists are starting to actually breakthrough on the back of whipflare AND cards like sword of war and peace, Porcy leggionare and even.... hovermyr xd.... have been given consideration almost entirely because of whipflare.
Good decks and good players adapt to threats bad players stick their fingers in their ear and say but its only one card!!!
You cant try to flag me on any assumptions I make about the posters on here when I am arguing with people over running Bloodline Keeper and Skirsdag High Priest every other post.
So for the under-shot assumption, I apologize.
As for the rest, it summarized as "Im a top tier player, I know top tier players, and the second argument is invalid because blue has counters."
They have mana leak to stop Whipflare because it is a major threat, we have Divine Offering that stops Ratchet Bomb even more efficiently (no opportunity to play 3 mana) and on top of that Stony Silence that puts our responses to wipes over blues. They dont have a 3cmc "Your opponent cannot whipflare unless this card is destroyed."
EDIT- Well I guess they could Nevermore whipflare.
Like you said, Good decks and good players adapt to threats, bad players stick their fingers in their ear and say "but one card kills W/B tokens!" (or something like that.)
Also, former comment is witty humor, I concede the fact that you are probably a more skilled player than myself, however I do feel that you are very close-minded about this archetype.
I think its really telling how angry and defensive people are getting when someone mentions ratchet bomb. I have tested b/w tokens extensively in prep for scg this weekend and can tell you that stupid artifact is as back breaking as many people claim.
Stony silence is one possible but not optimal answer, because if you do not see it game 1 you cant safely board in the Stony. The other problem is because we are tokens we cant really way to see the ratchet bomb as they can respond with cracking it and often will not play it until they intend to use it that turn.
We would then only be at card parity and our super secret tech just slowed our mid range down and we have to hope they were aggro (running ratchet bomb 0_0) or also mid range because both Conley GB ramp and control decks running ratchet bomb have a much stronger late game then we do, and the time walk from answer for an answer is just bad for us.
Look at first I was skeptical about b/w tokens but I bought in to all the stony silence, they can only run 4 bombs and that would ruin their other matchups etc answers
I have a fully sleeved up and really tight W/b tokens list for this weekends SCG but after testing against my other options and extensive gauntlet testing I really really want to just unload it on some chump this weekend at SCG because now that I have a ton of playtesting with it I can say I really dont think its "a thing" and is probably a tier 1.5 deck and it has the weakness of folding completely to a 2cmc artifact.
The second scars rotates and hopefully the overall powerlevel of the format with it I think this could be a legit deck in some form but thats many months away and I cant wait that long to have a 300 dollar deck tank in value on me when it might only be suited for a FNM.
I genuinely mean no offense, but you must not be a very good pilot. I play in a very cut throat meta, where people do nothing but lurk in tier 1 discussion and monitor tournament winning lists.
That's what I play against, and I still win. Consistently. Not every single match, but Im confident I will be picking up an FNM or two in the next month with some luck.
EVERYONE has tried siding RB against me. It works, but they find it to be underwhelmingly effective. My list and this archetype in general can recover from a single wipe easily. A second wipe? Annoying but still shouldnt be a problem if we played conservatively and didnt try to dump our hands as much as possible every turn. If you can wipe us three times, if we dont have a token generator of some sort our or some LS in the gy then yeah were probably screwed.
If you post a deck that can easily get around stony silence and divine offering, counter our Despise so that we dont know if youre about to wipe us, control our Planeswalkers, and still wipe the board three times within the first six turns then yes, I will concede that we are not competitive.
Luckily, aggro is the most common and prominent deck type in the meta, so none of the tier 1 decks can do that.
I mean you guys can hate or whatever and still try to dismiss it as "one card" but its one card that really makes this mid range strategy not really well positioned in a format where mid range is already kinda hurting...
But with conleys list floating around still and b/w tokens being the expected huge shiny new thing I dont think its where I want to be right now and thought i'd share my insight after testing.
I do agree and dont take it the wrong way im not saying ratchet gets slammed into every deck and its GG but its a powerful board option for any deck. The real problem is in conleys GB ramp where it slows the game down until the powerful late game blows you out, and glissa can start nonsense, or in a control shell where its only sweeper 1-3 and its supplementing days BSZ etc.
I have yet to play against any variant of conley's GB ramp, so Im not gonna spew untested jabber on that. I dont know how this deck would do against it. I dont even know what the list looks like (if anyone could post a link id be very grateful) but these are also indicators that its not that common. One uncommon archetype stomping us (if it does) is not going to keep it from becoming tier 1.
@bowzr- a lot of the posts are somewhat pointless, aside from people like blaskas who can give results and actual game situations about what cards are good and bad, reading an entire thread can be meaningless, plus I was posting at like 2am lol, the thing about dismember is you dont really want to kill a bird with it, or kill something really early, but tragic slip is good early game, and late game since you have a bunch of small creatures you can throw in front of blockers and morbid away, so when they inferno or swing and kill a guy you can just slip it
That's why I havent been posting =)
Also, having responses to titans isnt a problem. People are trying to convince themselves that a conditional removal spell is amazing because it is at one mana, as if generating two mana by the time a titan is dropped is hard. Nice titan, Doom Blade. Every. Time. Titans come out T6, removal costs 2, mana curves out at 4 for most of us. Works out nicely.
Once again guys, we need to be finding responses to UW decks, not repeating the same discussions over and over.
With the rise of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, should we consider Dismember?
Thalia is just annoying whenever I see her in play, and really slows our game down.
I rather Dismember then Gut Shot right now.
Dismember is always a good card, and will indeed be our response if she continues to rise in popularity. My personal meta has yet to jump on her bandwagon though.
I am not a fan of Gut Shot in any deck running black, because we have access to Tragic Slip. Yes, it costs 1 mana, but it is still a perfect turn 1 play against most decks on the draw. AND it has the ability to kill larger creatures as long as we chump block first, or otherwise trigger morbid. Gut Shot kind of becomes useless mid to late game without Snapcaster Mage to bring it back for 2 damage.
Gut Shot isnt good because it deals one damage, it is good because it can deal one damage when you are tapped out. One mana is a big deal in the first three turns in an aggro meta.
EDIT- Im not advising anyone to run it, Im simply acknowledging it as a decent tech card for someones personal meta.
I know shane and probaby alot others is already running Despise but what about all in control in early game? if you can grab a garruk or Koth or snapcaster mage why not Surgical Extraction it. I was also wondering if we could run any number of Gut shots so not to use all our powerful kills against tiny things and same them for titans and the like. It also has been proven in a pinch to deal with Inkmoth Nexus and can take down a turn 1 delver pre flip. I will be seeing how this can be done with my own testing but I don't have access to a very large play group so I normally just play against what should be the optimal draw for the deck I'm testing against.
I tried Surgical Extraction out yesterday, I didnt really care for it. I ran it as a 2-of and there was one matchup where I T1 Despise a Snap and then surgical for the other one in his hand (and a third in deck), which was nice, but for some reason Im just not sold on the card yet. Ill post more in depth results as they develop, only two matches in thus far.
I could respect Gut Shot in the SB if there is really that much delver/inkmoth in your meta, but MB it will probably see inferior value for most of us. 1/1 anything should not be a problem, even if it is a flyer. We generate so many tokens that blocking/killing them should be easy, while we save spot removal for immediate threats.
I would argue that depending on the curve of your deck, you probably can't support that many 4 drops. Having 7-8 4 drops is a lot, and I think a lot of people would rather have sorin than hero.
I only have 6. 3 of each, which seems to be the most popular. Few lists run Sorin or Hero as a 4-of, most running 3 sorin 2 hero.
That said, it also depends on if you plan on grinding out games as opposed to just turning everything (or non-token things) sideways. Maybe having a more powerful 5 drop might just be better. Tokens is extremely powerful because of the card advantage, and having that C/A provided immediately as opposed to during the following turn does have some value (like sorin or elspeth). Further, having a deck that almost blanks spot removal, or makes it much worse is something else to consider. When everything in the deck is a 2 for 1, your opponents are forced to doomblade tokens instead of real creatures. Not saying that Hero is bad, or even that it doesn't warrant a slot. Just maybe it should be considered in this manner, and dropped to a lower number.
I think that decks running shrine are going to be looking to grind you out, and I don't think that hero really fits into that plan so well. If you are looking to close out a long game, maybe something like WSZ might just be better. Instant speed is huge, and allows you to steal games during opponents end step.
People seem to be ignoring the primer. We do NOT play this deck the same way in every match-up if we want to see success. In every game, we have to KNOW OUR ROLE. If we know we cannot outrace our opponent, we need to focus more on control and play conservatively. If our opponent is more control heavy, we need to apply unrelenting pressure while conserving our removal for genuine threats that will come mid/late game. We cannot consistently beat an aggro deck on blow for blow aggro, and we cannot consistently beat a control deck in a "lets see who exhausts their control cards first" match. We are a hybrid. That demands VERSATILITY in our deck list. I have 3 sorin and 3 hero. Why? So that I have equal chances of drawing either. Sorin is more ideal against an aggro based opponent because he can pump/spawn as needed to generate advantage, whereas hero will crush a control based opponent unless he is immediately responded to. Both are still valuable in either match-up. I have 4 Despise and 4 Doomed Traveler for the same reason. Versatility. Despise lets me see what a control opponent is planning and what threats to expect, Traveler is a nuissance for any aggro player. My deck list can quite efficiently adapt to the match-up and respond accordingly, improving my odds of success. This isnt some theory based ranter, this is what my test results have shown.
Everyone needs to go to the OP and click the link next to KNOW YOUR ROLE.
Edit: Also, I know this is W/B tokens, but has anyone thought about splashing green for a couple of townships? Vault is good and everything, but township is insanely powerful, and making your tokens bigger can often let you close out games faster than large life swings. If you are the beat down, township is going to be way better. I definitely wouldn't play one instead of the other, but playing both seems like a great answer. Also, it gives you access to garruk which is yet another token producer, and in my opinion, better than Hero at a grinding game (obviously terrible at racing by comparison, but it depends on what you want your 4 drops to do).
Oh look, its this post again. Sorin > Garruk. Vault > Gavony. GW township players need to stick to their own archetype and stop trying to pollute ours.
Inb4 argument that gavony is superior. Nope. Gaining chunks of life while simultaneously clearing your opponents field if they decide to block a wave > +1/+1. The only argument you have is that it can help survive a Slagstorm or Whipflare. If WRR or RDW was a threat to us, this would be relevant, but those are both very easy match-ups.
I've been lurking this topic since day one, and I'm not usually a one to post (as you can see by my post count), but I honestly think that Rally the Peasants is worth a shot at testing in place of Reap. Not only can it steal the game as a instant, but could also allow us to trade with things such as Giest and Crusader. I understand the power with Reap, but I just rather a straight up game ender. And no, I'm not asking to splash Red for the flashback.
I've played BW Tokens back in the days of Reborn when 5 Color Control was the best deck in the format, and I remember how game ending Zealous Persecution was, even against control.
On another note;
Shane, do you miss the 4th Townsfolk? At all?
Rally the Peasants is another decent option as a 2 of in my opinion, I just prefer altar for a quick +1 if I dont have board advantage over a punch (albeit possibly game winning) if I already have it. Theres a long list of decent cards we could run as a 2-of, I just prefer altar at the moment.
And I really like having Gather at 3 right now, I still play it when I need it T2-3 and I dont top deck it as often when it's mid-late game and Im looking for a more relevant draw.
Have you guys tested Shrine?
It DOES get removed nearly every time I lay it.
Every deck has a answer for Shrines now, and not just because of tokens but because of RDW too.
I know how you guys feel, I loved Shrine and I miss it to death, but it's the truth.
We don't need to find a answer for board wipes, we need to find a answer for things such as Giest.
I didnt see the post, and must have skimmed over that card a dozen times in the spoilers because I have never seen it, so thank you! I will definitely grab four copies and keep them around in case UW spirits ever becomes popular at my local meta.
People run brimstone for 3cmc 3 damage with a conditional five. If Wildblood Pack were to attack, would I be able to fling it at my opponent for 8+ damage at the end of the combat step after the damage resolved or would his +3 fall off the stack before I could cast?
Imagine
T4 Instigator Gang
T5 FMR, Moonmist if he didnt flip. Opponent tries to snag/gftt instigator, Ranger's Guile if you can to stop snag, or else sac FMR to regenerate removal. If it was Ranger's Guile that resolved, swing in for 10 (guile+FMR). Fling it right after for 10.
I am uncertain as to how the stack in combat works outside of priority attackers and whatnot, would the former theory be possible?
This isn't the correct forum for rules questions, use the Magic Rulings subforum. Thread closed.
Arc Trail is more targeted towards Delver heavy metas, where it is amazing. Flipped or unflipped, you kill it and something else or ping the enemy player.
People run brimstone for 3 mana with a conditional five. If Wildblood Pack were to attack, would I be able to fling it at my opponent for 8+ damage at the end of the combat step after the damage resolved or would his +3 fall off the stack before I could cast?
Imagine
T4 Instigator
T5 FMR, Moonmist if he didnt flip. Opponent tries to snag/gftt instigator, Ranger's Guile if you can to stop snag, or else sac FMR to regenerate removal. If it was Ranger's Guile that resolved, swing in for 10 (guile+FMR). Fling it right after for 10.
I am uncertain as to how the stack in combat works outside of priority attackers and whatnot, would the former theory be possible?
I've done little testing with it, and that's because I disliked it immediately. We arent RDW, we can just kill things regardless of toughness. Every time I drew it I wished it was a doom blade unless it was a T1 response to delver. Waiting for morbid can be a pain, and often results in you sacrificing one of your tokens in a blocking to trigger it, which always irritated me. I could have just doom bladed the sun titan instead of letting it kill a token and then casting tragic slip.
Three color control deck was cute, made me smile. =)
Also, what deck do you play?
Ugh.
Steel Sabotage does not equal Divine Offering. My bad on the confusion.
Ive only ran revoke existence and stony silence, I dont know how or why I was drawing steel sabotage tech into Divine.
Everyone point and laugh at King_Shane.
Stack confusion wasnt the problem, after playing RDW you learn to pop a shrine when it is targeted, and save mana to do so if needed.
Back to discussion- Either way Ratchet Bomb has yet to cost me a game.
You cant try to flag me on any assumptions I make about the posters on here when I am arguing with people over running Bloodline Keeper and Skirsdag High Priest every other post.
So for the under-shot assumption, I apologize.
As for the rest, it summarized as "Im a top tier player, I know top tier players, and the second argument is invalid because blue has counters."
They have mana leak to stop Whipflare because it is a major threat, we have Divine Offering that stops Ratchet Bomb even more efficiently (no opportunity to play 3 mana) and on top of that Stony Silence that puts our responses to wipes over blues. They dont have a 3cmc "Your opponent cannot whipflare unless this card is destroyed."
EDIT- Well I guess they could Nevermore whipflare.
Like you said, Good decks and good players adapt to threats, bad players stick their fingers in their ear and say "but one card kills W/B tokens!" (or something like that.)
Also, former comment is witty humor, I concede the fact that you are probably a more skilled player than myself, however I do feel that you are very close-minded about this archetype.
I genuinely mean no offense, but you must not be a very good pilot. I play in a very cut throat meta, where people do nothing but lurk in tier 1 discussion and monitor tournament winning lists.
That's what I play against, and I still win. Consistently. Not every single match, but Im confident I will be picking up an FNM or two in the next month with some luck.
EVERYONE has tried siding RB against me. It works, but they find it to be underwhelmingly effective. My list and this archetype in general can recover from a single wipe easily. A second wipe? Annoying but still shouldnt be a problem if we played conservatively and didnt try to dump our hands as much as possible every turn. If you can wipe us three times, if we dont have a token generator of some sort our or some LS in the gy then yeah were probably screwed.
If you post a deck that can easily get around stony silence and divine offering, counter our Despise so that we dont know if youre about to wipe us, control our Planeswalkers, and still wipe the board three times within the first six turns then yes, I will concede that we are not competitive.
Luckily, aggro is the most common and prominent deck type in the meta, so none of the tier 1 decks can do that.
I have yet to play against any variant of conley's GB ramp, so Im not gonna spew untested jabber on that. I dont know how this deck would do against it. I dont even know what the list looks like (if anyone could post a link id be very grateful) but these are also indicators that its not that common. One uncommon archetype stomping us (if it does) is not going to keep it from becoming tier 1.
This is a sound and perfect rebuttal. *golf clap*
I just typed four paragraphs and then read this, feeling like I wasted my time.
That's why I havent been posting =)
Also, having responses to titans isnt a problem. People are trying to convince themselves that a conditional removal spell is amazing because it is at one mana, as if generating two mana by the time a titan is dropped is hard. Nice titan, Doom Blade. Every. Time. Titans come out T6, removal costs 2, mana curves out at 4 for most of us. Works out nicely.
Once again guys, we need to be finding responses to UW decks, not repeating the same discussions over and over.
Dismember is always a good card, and will indeed be our response if she continues to rise in popularity. My personal meta has yet to jump on her bandwagon though.
Gut Shot isnt good because it deals one damage, it is good because it can deal one damage when you are tapped out. One mana is a big deal in the first three turns in an aggro meta.
EDIT- Im not advising anyone to run it, Im simply acknowledging it as a decent tech card for someones personal meta.
I tried Surgical Extraction out yesterday, I didnt really care for it. I ran it as a 2-of and there was one matchup where I T1 Despise a Snap and then surgical for the other one in his hand (and a third in deck), which was nice, but for some reason Im just not sold on the card yet. Ill post more in depth results as they develop, only two matches in thus far.
I could respect Gut Shot in the SB if there is really that much delver/inkmoth in your meta, but MB it will probably see inferior value for most of us. 1/1 anything should not be a problem, even if it is a flyer. We generate so many tokens that blocking/killing them should be easy, while we save spot removal for immediate threats.
I only have 6. 3 of each, which seems to be the most popular. Few lists run Sorin or Hero as a 4-of, most running 3 sorin 2 hero.
People seem to be ignoring the primer. We do NOT play this deck the same way in every match-up if we want to see success. In every game, we have to KNOW OUR ROLE. If we know we cannot outrace our opponent, we need to focus more on control and play conservatively. If our opponent is more control heavy, we need to apply unrelenting pressure while conserving our removal for genuine threats that will come mid/late game. We cannot consistently beat an aggro deck on blow for blow aggro, and we cannot consistently beat a control deck in a "lets see who exhausts their control cards first" match. We are a hybrid. That demands VERSATILITY in our deck list. I have 3 sorin and 3 hero. Why? So that I have equal chances of drawing either. Sorin is more ideal against an aggro based opponent because he can pump/spawn as needed to generate advantage, whereas hero will crush a control based opponent unless he is immediately responded to. Both are still valuable in either match-up. I have 4 Despise and 4 Doomed Traveler for the same reason. Versatility. Despise lets me see what a control opponent is planning and what threats to expect, Traveler is a nuissance for any aggro player. My deck list can quite efficiently adapt to the match-up and respond accordingly, improving my odds of success. This isnt some theory based ranter, this is what my test results have shown.
Everyone needs to go to the OP and click the link next to KNOW YOUR ROLE.
Oh look, its this post again. Sorin > Garruk. Vault > Gavony. GW township players need to stick to their own archetype and stop trying to pollute ours.
Inb4 argument that gavony is superior. Nope. Gaining chunks of life while simultaneously clearing your opponents field if they decide to block a wave > +1/+1. The only argument you have is that it can help survive a Slagstorm or Whipflare. If WRR or RDW was a threat to us, this would be relevant, but those are both very easy match-ups.
Rally the Peasants is another decent option as a 2 of in my opinion, I just prefer altar for a quick +1 if I dont have board advantage over a punch (albeit possibly game winning) if I already have it. Theres a long list of decent cards we could run as a 2-of, I just prefer altar at the moment.
And I really like having Gather at 3 right now, I still play it when I need it T2-3 and I dont top deck it as often when it's mid-late game and Im looking for a more relevant draw.
Thank you. Really.