MTG Salvation

I am thinking of running the following (after MM ban):



Note: I do not own any Mutavaults hence Mishra's Factory.

The only "non traditional" card is probably Counterspell, but I'm a conservative player and I'd prefer to have a hard counter with mana open (due to Vial) then variable ones. Especially if Combo is going to be as prevalent as people are saying. Then again, will I really have the mana "open?" Probably not. Alternatively could go with 3 Spell Pierce.

I have *not* playtested this at all. I have been playing Zoo the last two months, but have been slowly building this since I had a feeling MM would be banned and Combo would come back. Combo is also my worst match-up with Zoo so based on what's playing at the store, I can swap based on what I think will do better.

Back around Tempest Block, I traded one of my Mana Drains for a playset of Cursed Scrolls. I wouldn't say it was a "loss" though since Cursed Scroll was a staple card then and I necessary to play Sligh and I played the crap out of those Cursed Scrolls for over two years.

However, from a financial standpoint, I obviously "lost" since now Mana Drain is worth significantly more than 4 Cursed Scrolls.

I think I agree with option #2. One Teeg with 2 or 3 GSZ's is probably a good move. The GSZs are also more flexible than Teeg for match-ups when Teeg is useful. You can search for Pridemages in CounterTop or at worst, a Goyf.

Quote from AngryPenguin

I've been playing 2 main deck Teegs for a few months, and they've been amazing. I don't expect them to be leaving the deck any time soon.

Yeah I have 2 SB at the moment since most match-ups he was a dead card, but it looks like I will put 2 in MD and 2 in SB for a total of 4 after sideboarding vs. a combo deck.

At the same time, in my meta, there are two combo Elf decks so Ethersworn Canonists might be better at my local tourneys. That shuts down Elves and the combos we are worried about (I think).

Quote from Negator87

yes by testing and removing lynx I need less fetches, now it looks something like:

DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creatures 4 Goblin Guide 4 Kird Ape 2 Loam Lion 3 Qasali Pridemage 4 Wild Nacatl 3 Grim Lavamancer Spells 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Chain Lightning 4 Rift Bolt 4 Lightning Helix 2 Fireblast	Enchantments 3 Sylvan Library Lands 1 Mountains 1 Forest 1 Plains 2 Taiga 2 Plateau 1 savannah 4 Arid Mesa 4 Wooded Foothills 4 Windswept Heat	Sideboard 3 Pithing Needle 4 Sulfurix Vortex 4 Price Of Progress 4 Shattering Spree

some Pridemage for main deck, more lands, and less fireblast, just two lions, maybe I can add the third or the fourth Pridemage over a lybrary, not sure.
Sideboard will need for sure some fixing, with MM gone.

Were wondering if Jötun Grunt could actually be a decent cheap alternative to keep graveyards in chek (opposite Goyf, dredge, but I guess it does poorly against reanimator, it also kill mancer somehow) maybe in the next future, if Snapcaster mage gets legacy love?

Looks a lot better. I still think you should run Path to Exile over Rift Bolt, but it depends on your meta. I need them for mirror matches, NO RUG and more importantly, Reanimator.

I also agree that maybe add a 4th Pridemage for the 3rd Sylvan. I think 3 Sylvans is too much. 2 is usually good enough to get one in a game and as we've already discussed, drawing 2 Sylvans is terrible. Same with an early Sylvan when you're playing your one drop creatures.

It's a personal preference, but I prefer Loam Lions to Goblin Guides. One is more aggressive while one is more conservative. It's really just a taste (and meta) decision though.

The only thing missing, as you've noted, is a fatty for finishes. Maybe the RGW 4/5 (he costs RGW) whose name eludes me? Also Knights of the Reliquary is also solid, but that would be better if you were going a GSZ route.

Unfortunately, all of this may change with MM gone and a possible flood of combos. If that's the case, you might wanna go with the MD Teeg with GSZ approach.

We (Zoo players) could always SB Ethersworn Canonist if Combo is that prevalent. Not sure how effective that is, but it is an option. Also Main Deck Teegs.

Back when I started playing Magic, we opened up packs of Revised and were mad when we got a Dual Land instead of a Shivan Dragon or Royal Assassin.

Quote from pandafarmer

When I started playing, a Serra Angel would mean game over, and a Craw Wurm was a windmill slam event.

This too. Serra, Sengir, Erhnam, Mahamoti and Shivan were the top tier creatures for their respective colors and meant game over.

Quote from kirbysdl

So, is anyone actively thinking of maindeck replacements, or just abandoning the deck?

I have never played Merfolk, but am 7 cards away from finishing the deck so I'm going to stick with it. I'm currently replacing MM with Counterspell (haha) since I don't own any Flusterstorms and like you, going with Kira. Funny thing is, I main a Zoo deck right now, but realize that the protection is invaluable in this match-up (where Zoo is favored).

Another option is mainboarding Dismembers for their Tarmogoyfs, but it doesn't help you in a lot of match-ups. Really just Zoo and maybe Batterskulls.

Quote from PopeJP

Well, so long Mental Misstep. Guess that means most of us go back to running four Daze and now there's three more flex spots to work with.

I'm building a Merfolk deck at the moment and if Combo really is coming back, I think I may run 3 - 4 Spell Pierce or even old school Counterspell. I like consistent and reliable counters and it'd help. Then again, it doesn't help against Zoo.

This is probably the appropriate thread to ask this, but given the Mental Misstep ban, do you think a "Small Zoo" deck is the way to go or a mid-level Zoo? My gut says "Small Zoo" since Zoo players no longer need to fear our one drops being countered and our one mana drops now resolving adds up to consistent, early damage that means faster wins.

With that said, here is my current deck. It was designed to have a mid-game if my one drops get countered and to dodge MM better:



I used to run the following deck until I had issues with running out of steam and having no mid-game, but am wondering if I should go back to it:



The proposed deck is very focused and single-minded with 18 one mana drops. It's not as "balanced," but I wonder if the new meta (post-MM) means Zoo should just go "all-in?" At the same time, Batterskull and things like that have helped me win games post-turn 5 when most Zoo decks have nearly no cards in hand and are in top deck mode. The mid-game stuff also let me race decks like Reanimator and Affinity (after I control them).

Thoughts?

Edit: I gave it some thought and I think I may have found a compromise that's not all-in, but pretty close :P.



This deck loses the Goblin Guides so it's not as aggressive, but I gain the Sylvan Libraries and a 4th Qasali Pridemage, which gives me better consistency and staying power I think. Alternatively, I could try and fit a Jitte or Elspeth in for the mid-game, but I am leaning towards the Sylvans.

Basically way I see it, MM banning means Zoo is now stronger against Merfolk (already favorable), NO RUG, UW Stoneblade and Hive Mind with Hive Mind, Reanimator and Affinity still be (slightly) unfavorable match-ups. Also with more combo, Zoo has to be fast rather than mid-level since the control/aggro decks I was making those changes for (UW Stoneblade), have a much harder time containing Zoo's early game now so no point in wasting cards on them.

I guess the reality is, we need to see what the new meta is, but if NO RUG, Stoneblade and Merfolk stay relevant, I think the MM banning is a net win for Small Zoo even if Combo is resurrected.

Quote from Dragon23

@DWchang: Hive Mind should pretty much be pushed out by the more powerful combos, so it'll be more High Tide and Storm comboes making up the combo portion of the meta.

Guess I should ask the Zoo thread if I should go super fast zoo or keep my mid-level Zoo. Hopefully I have the tools to counter Storm and High Tide.

Anyway off to that thread

I'm still relatively new to Legacy, but does this mean UW Stoneblade and NO RUG are now weaker, but High Tide, CounterTop and Hive Mind will be stronger? The SCG Legacy Open in Indy will be interesting.

Fortunately, nothing in my current deck changes :).

Quote from UnderwaterGuy

NO costs 4 and a specific color creature and then wins 2 turns later. That's not that bad considering any reasonable deck should be able to race Progenitus or disrupt him.

Agreed. It's not only 4 casting cost. Two of them have to be green. Disagree with the MM being ban worthy all you want, but NO is definitely not worth banning.

Quote from UnderwaterGuy

I don't think Top is overpowered, it is a 2 card combo that doesn't really win the game immediately.

It doesn't destroy decks the way MM does.

It's not that it's overpowered (I don't feel that way). It's the fact playing the deck is just not fun. The matches go a long time and most turns are them just using the Top over and over, reordering, etc. WotC has banned cards for being non-interactive and not fun before and hopefully they will again (although I doutt it).

Although I am an aggro player and hate getting my T1 plays countered, my main worry is that if MM is banned, CounterTop returns. That deck is just not fun to play against. I'd rather have MM than CounterTop.

Then again, they could ban the Top too and I'd be a very happy player :).

(not going to happen)