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  • posted a message on Eternal Masters Confirmed
    People seem to forget you can play Khans fetches and Shocklands. Yes, it's not as good as ABUR duals, but it's a relatively cheaper way to get into Legacy without making the huge financial plunge. A number of students who play at the Legacy FNMs do just that and seem to still do fine (2-2 and 3-1). And even without those, prior to this set, you could have played Burn, Merfolk, and Death and Taxes without buying a single dual land.

    Hopefully this set prints other things such as Sensei's Divining Top, Stoneforge Mystic (the leaker mentioned this), Umezawa's Jitte, lots of pieces for Death and Taxes (none of it is on the reserved list), etc. I have my doubts given previous MM products (where there was just a bit of value and nothing in uncommon), but one can hope that it will drive up Legacy interest and give a path to getting into the format I (and many others) love.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Eternal Masters announced
    Quote from Figurative »
    Question: I just got a play set of force of wills and one wasteland for legacy. What will happen to the prices? Should I panic sell them? (Specifically the wasteland as I don't need it that badly and I doubt force of will will drop)

    No. If it's like Modern Masters, the staples will be relatively stable. Look at the cost of Noble Hierarch, Arcbound Ravager, Fulminator Mage, Spellskite, etc. They're still relatively high. As for Mythics (like Force of Will), Tarmogoyf, etc. are still pretty high too.
    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • posted a message on [Deck] Jund
    Quote from boxian »
    Has anyone tested with Oath of Nissa?

    Thing with Oath is almost every time I'd rather have Sylvan Library (which I see you have one of).

    As for your list, I'd echo that Domri Rade is kind of random. We don't have that many creatures so I think you'd whiff quite a bit on his +1. Garruk Relentless has been my planeswalker of choice whenever I want one in Jund (which isn't that often). I think Life from the Loam is fine though since you can keep loaming Wasteland.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Fat Packs
    I was able to grab my customary three fatpacks from a local store that sells them for $32 each. I tend to use the fatpack boxes to store my extra commons in a set. I see a lot of other people throw out their extra commons after a draft, but I always hold onto mine in hope that when another ten years pass I can go through my collection and find 22 copies of a tournament staple like serum visions. It happened to me when I got back into the game two years ago after leaving in Mirrodin block.

    Unrelated to fat packs, but I do the same thing. I always keep at least 4 of anything and it pays off. When I returned to Magic after a 12 year hiatus, I was fortunate enough to find all of my cards including my sorted commons/uncommons and in them were 4 Force of Wills and 8 Wastelands (among other goodies). You never know what will go up or what cards make other cards now valuable (i.e. Lions Eye Diamond was worthless until Infernal Tutor).
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [Deck] Jund
    RE: Scavenging Ooze

    The reason we have Scavenging Ooze in our SB is two fold: 1) It counter GY-based strategies, but also 2) many decks side in RIP against us making our Goyfs 0/1. Scavenging Ooze at a minimum is a 2/2. I've sided out a Goyf or two against decks like Miracles and sided in my Ooze so I at least have a reliable 2/2. It's much more relevant than a 0/1.

    RE: Maelstrom Pulse/Krosan Grip

    I understand the benefits of Grip, but the decks it excels against we already stomp (in particular UWx Miracles). We have 3/4 Abrupt Decay and 1/2 Maelstrom Pulse. That is more than enough to kill pesky permanents. I also run Golgari Charm as you mentioned and that gives me even more Enchantment kill, but also answers to True-Name. Again, Krosan Grip is good, but it almost never makes my 15 SB cards. Yes it kills Sensei's Top, but so does Decay'ing it in response to a fetchland.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Deck] Jund
    Played Jund in our Legacy FNM tonight and went 5-0. I'd been putting up decent results this last month (3-2, 4-1, etc.), but the 5-0 was a bit surprising given our local meta lately (Lands, 4 Burn decks, 2 Omni-tell, etc.). I lucked out and dodged the unfair decks and beat Maverick, Esperblade, Elves, Infect, and Miracles. Now that I think about it, I believe I only dropped one game (to Esperblade) and went 2-0 against everyone else. As always, Punishing Fire is the MVP and sole reason to play this deck.

    As for discard against Elves, yes I side out Bloodbraid, but given the number of removal spells I add (4) and then Scavenging Ooze and Pithing Needle, I have to touch the discard. I slightly disagree with Liliana's usefulness against them having witnessed it tonight. If we are able to keep them in check with a removal here and there Game 1, Liliana seals the deal by either killing an elf every other turn or taking a card from their hand every turn. Elves is nearly hellbent after they play a bunch of dudes, but if you Deluge or Golgari Charm them, Liliana seals the deal and keeps them from ever re-developing a board again. Don't get me wrong, the -X/-X effects are what wreck them, but I rarely find the discard being *that* impactful because they usually already played their elves. We have to usually be reactive (i.e. kill them) other than taking their Natural Orders with discard. I can't actually remember the last time I lost to Elves. I think my sideboard is just too good for them so I don't really mind replacing a discard spell that later on in the game is a pretty terrible top deck for something that wrecks them.

    Although I haven't take out my REBs I am starting to agree. I find that I already am pretty far ahead against the decks I side them in against (i.e. fair Blue) and things get so much worse when we put our Chokes in. If I didn't have REBs to side in, I could keep some more threats so it's debatable that's better in games where we just need to close it out and are already ahead. However, like you said, the Show and Tell and Omnisciences are what ultimately make me keep them in my SB.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Deck] Jund
    Quote from CorwinOfAmber »
    1. T1 shaman or thoughtseize? (i start, unknown deck, i have both) i was told that always no matter what shaman goes first... anyone could explain please?

    People may disagree with me here, but the right play in any blind situation (with not only Jund as your deck) is Thoughtseize. They key is blind. What if you're playing against Belcher and that DRS is going to do nothing while the Thoughtseize wrecks them. Same with TES, Storm, etc. However, it's not just combo decks (which are roughly 1/4 or 1/3 of a blind meta), I feel a T1 Thoughtseize is one of the best turn 1 play you can make in Legacy): 1) You get *all* the information on your opponent's game plan/turn sequences (i.e. they kept this hand and now you're ruining their sequences), 2) You disrupt their turn 1 play (again they kept this hand because they felt it was playable and you've now changed it), and 3) they have literally no information on your deck (while you have all of yours). For example, a non-combo deck like Miracles. A T1 DRS isn't that big of a deal to them (unless it goes into a T2 Liliana). However, a T1 Thoughtseize taking their Sensei's Divining Top pretty much hoses their hand. The deck relies heavily on Top.

    So again, I think T1 Thoughtseize is always the right play Game 1 against a deck you know nothing about because you now know everything and slow them down. Obviously this is not a hard rule, but a reasonable rule of thumb. If I have a Liliana in my opener as well, I'd debate the T1 DRS too.

    Quote from CorwinOfAmber »
    2. which discard to side out against elves? i was thinking just hymn out, as targeted discard might be better and i can hit natural order. jitte in against elves or is it just overkill when i have punishing fire and mass removal already?

    If you have enough cards, I think siding out most of your discard is fine. You're going to win via removal, not disruption. Your Punishing Fires, Toxic Deluge, Golgari Charms, etc. are what will win the game, not discard. I mean yes you could slow them down, but the removal is what will ultimately win you the game. If you have enough to side in (I usually side in 2 Toxic Deluge, 2 Golgari Charm, 1 Scavenging Ooze) then it's fine to take out discard (and some of your BBE).

    Quote from CorwinOfAmber »
    3. similar decks and mirror (jund, junk, bug) : should i side some of my discard out? i play modern, and that's quite common you side your discard out, to not have dead topdecks lategame.

    Depends if you're on the play or draw. If you're on the draw then yes. If you're on the play, the same thing applies with Thoughtseize. Having a few is good so you can land that T1 Thoughtseize and get ahead. However, Discard is usually where I look in terms of what to take out for midrange fair decks.

    Quote from CorwinOfAmber »
    4. death and taxes: should be easy if i get rid of mother and thalia soon, right?

    Yes. DnT is a slightly favored match-up because of Punishing Fire. You can lose if they Wasteland/Port you a lot and land a Thalia or something, but just be intelligent with your fetches (fetch basics) and keep the board clear on their side. Also be wary of end-of-turn Vial shenanigans.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Deck] Jund
    Quote from CorwinOfAmber »
    the question here is the sideboard. which cards to get for an unknown meta? i expect some goblins, sneak/show, miracles, elves, other BGx decks. but who knows...

    When making a sideboard in most formats, I always start with at least 2 or 3 pieces of graveyard hate. It looks like you have Leylines and Surgical Extractions, which are fine. There are many others. With that as a start, I move on to the next few things.

    In a blind meta, I would expect Elves, Miracles, Ux Delver decks, and some combo decks. For Elves I'd have at least 2 ways to give -X/-X to kill their board. I go with both Golgari Charm and Toxic Deluge. The former is nice because it has multiple modes that are relevant. The enchantment killing is super relevant against Miracles (Counterbalance and RIP) and other decks. Deluge is nice because you can kill other things other than 1/1 Elves.

    Next I would have 2 or 3 REBs or Pyroblasts for Blue-based decks. I'd also play Choke since most Blue decks side out Force of Will against us so you can usually land it. I would then add some more discard or anti-combo cards like Duress, Inquisition, etc. I'd have at least three of that since you have plenty of dead cards Game 1 against Combo decks.

    That should leave you 4 or so other slots, which is where you basically target what you expect. I usually like to have a way to deal with Artifacts (other than Abrupt Decay) and other nice things like Pithing Needle since they are general and mess with multiple things.

    Hope that helps.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Is legacy gaining popularity right now?
    Quote from rocked »
    No. Legacy is slowly fading away to obscurity. In this forum alone, there are currently 242 users checking the modern section, whereas there are only 33 people checking out legacy. (Vintage on the otherhand has only 8 users). There are no latest buzz directly regarding Legacy. An article will come out every now and then but not as often as it was. Modern on the otherhand is popular right now. pros are giving their "2cents" on the "professional implications of the format. Tweakings are being done in tier1 decks. Brewing left and right. New topics are being discussed. A website dedicated to Modern opened on 2015. For whatever intelligent reason anyone can think of, it only boils down to that "Reserved List" that WOTC invented that is the main culprit in the demise of Legacy. In a few years, Legacy will literally be just a "legacy of an old era". That is the nature of the beast.

    The forum users is not a good indication. A lot Legacy players frequent the Source for Legacy information and that place is still going strong. Given a number of us frequent both sites, but still sheer users in one of many internet forums is not enough.
    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • posted a message on [Deck] Jund
    What would you name against Storm? Dont they always mainboard two kills, tendrils and empty the warrens? Also some decks play burning wise and get their killcard with that but I guess you are save to just name tendrils

    I think Tendrils is a pretty safe bet. If I'm a storm deck I will assume I am still pretty heavily favored against Jund and this usually hits them out of left field. Thing is, if it were Cabal Therapy I'd name Burning Wish (TES) or Infernal Tutor (ANT), but they use that to tutor up their kill card. Even if they resolve an Infernal Tutor, what are they going to tutor? You named the one card that they were going to use.

    Given, when I play storm, I intentionally play both Tendrils and Empty the Warnings so I have two kill conditions. Frankly I've won ton of games by not storming to 10 and just making 12 Goblins.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Deck] Jund
    What are the best hate cards for popular combo decks you can load up on, since fair decks are already an ok matchups?

    I saw some people mistakingly boarding in Redblast and pyroblast against ANT not knowing the only blue cards are cantrips (might be worthwhile countering I dont know)

    cards like nullrod (to stop LED and Lotus petal), surgical, exta discard, pyroblast/Redblast,pithin needle, phyrexian revoker, slaughter games? Thats about it isnt it? You could go deep and play cards like Chalice of the void and trinisphere?

    I think going for things like Null Rod and Trinisphere is a bit severe, but the obvious choices are REB/Pyroblast, Duress, Surgical Extraction, Choke, Chains of Mephistophles, etc. I only would side in REB/Pyro for Omni-Tell and Sneak and Show, unless I literally have nothing else in my SB to put in against Storm because REB'ing their Brainstorm is better than having a completely dead card in hand.

    My personal tech is Slaughter Games. It's stolen enough wins for me that I replaced Duress with it. Duress is good because it gives us even more Turn 1 disruption, but it doesn't close out the game and our deck is rather slow in terms of winning (not a fast clock). With so many cantrips, I find combo decks can recover pretty quickly after a Duress/Thoughtseize. Slaughter Games is obviously much slower, but assuming they don't kill you turn 1 or 2, it can outright break their back and immediately end the game if you name the right card. It's a risk/reward scenario (i.e. it's slower than Duress), but again, it's won me enough games either by my opponent being surprised I had it or being able to completely neuter their deck.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on DQ for counterfeit Magic cards at GP
    Quote from Annorax »
    Slightly different shades of frame color are a common issue with the early sets like Urza's Saga. This happened in part because at that point, two different contractors were printing Magic (Sheppard Poorman had started with Mirage & was still printing cards stateside at that point) and quality control/consistency wasn't the best even in the same printing facility.

    This actually scares me. I have four Time Spirals from Urza's Saga and three of them are a different shade of Blue than the other one. When I received the other three, I used a magnifying glass to make sure they were real (i.e. the print quality of the text, the dots in the printing itself that is near impossible to copy, etc.). I also have 8 Force of Wills that I personally opened in Alliance packs and when you look at them all, a subset of them look different than the others. Your post basically confirms to me that what I've seen for years is legit and not counterfeit.

    However, this sounds like if I used them in a tournament, an opponent could call me out for the same thing because they look different and I'll be DQ'ed or worse my cards ripped up. Even though I've verified them rather meticulously. I don't imagine the Judge will do the same thing and simply compare the colors and not realize the history as you noted.

    Like I said, this scares me.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on GP Seattle-Tacoma Discussion Thread
    Not that I could have gone, being on the other side of the country, but seeing the metagame breakdown, it looks like a field day for a Jund player like myself:


    Shardless BUG and Miracles are the two match-ups I most look forward to facing. Then again, Burn just wrecks me.
    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • posted a message on [SCG] Changes to Organized Play
    Quote from Sirius_B »
    The guy's just applying the Standard mindset to a format where "Tier 1" isn't even so well defined.
    Legacy's meta is mostly shaped by player preference, not necessity like Standard where his "if I'm not playing tier 1 I'm not even playing" bull is actually true. It wasn't even two years ago when Monastery Swiftspear made it so that Burn (apparently the ***** deck it's so cool to call out for being useless crap that can't win) was unbeatable to many BUG variants despite their ridiculous card value and price tag.

    Same with Modern, it's ridiculous to peacock about your "tier 1" style when any season not dominated by a truly broken deck, sees a lot of rogues at the winning tables.

    Interestingly enough Wizards posted the Day 2 breakdown for the Legacy GP and 5.5% of the decks who made Day 2 were Burn decks:


    So again, Legacy players mentioning Burn and Dredge is not a "play this jank deck and stop complaining." It's a legitimate way to enter the format, do reasonably well, and if you are so inclined and like the format, invest more. It's disingenuous to say you need to drop $2,000 into a Legacy deck just to even have a chance of playing.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [SCG] Changes to Organized Play
    Quote from SephX »
    Quote from VegaTDM »
    I was responding to

    That's like saying you can show up to a street race with a junker. Sure, you can spend money on the junker, lose and have a terrible time, but at least you got to play, right? This argument, this entire line of reasoning needs to stop in the community.

    where he called cheap decks junkers and said that you can't win with them and that simply isn't true.

    Context, sir. That was part of an overarching point about this stance the community, especially Legacy players, has defaulted to - this concept of 'take the cheapest decks and just be glad you get to show up at all'. It's a deflection of the problem that was at the heart of Legacy: cost barrier to entry. Instead of raging at SCG and their pretty scummy tactics, you blame the player that wants to play in your format but can't afford it.

    Your argument could be used to argue against Modern and Standard as well. Tier 1 Modern decks cost nearly the same as a Legacy deck and Tier 1 Standard decks are approaching $1,000. Isn't that the same financial barrier players face with regards to Legacy? Yeah I could make a $15 Standard deck out of commons and uncommons and not win much, but I could still play. That's the same argument people are making with regards to Legacy only the "cheaper" deck actually does win. Burn beats two of three of my Legacy decks right now and I also lose Game 1 to Dredge.

    Technically by your argument, ALL formats are inaccessible to newer players due to high cost.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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