Any questions as to why I don't run more of a specific card can be filed away under "Don't have them".
FNM, 4 rounds, 4-0 = Win tournament
Round 1: Vs Black/White Tokens (2-1)
Game 1 went surprisingly easy, he seemed to choke a bit on his draws whereas I curved out nicely and got the board presence I wanted, and things just went my way.
Game 2 he had gotten out a Zombie token with Sword of War and Peace, which simply tore past me, didn't help that I couldn't get rid of the mountains in my hand so he won that one.
Game 3 almost looked to follow the same blueprint though I gotten him down further, in the end I had two Phoenixes and Lavamancers out against his Zombie, he was at 8 life but I didn't have enough cards in my discard...then I ripped a Shock from my topdeck and did enough damage to win.
Round 2: Vs Delver/Snapcaster/Geist (2-1)
Game 1 he got his Delver but a Shock took care of him transforming. Combined with Gut Shot and Arc Trail keeping the field clear of his tokens, Hellrider and Wardriver did the rest in punching through his life.
Game 2 he had gotten out a bunch of Flashfreeze from his sideboard which hurt pretty badly. I still got him down on his life but at the same time he had filled his grave and got enough tokens to hold me back. A Runechanter's Pike was ready and once he had enough instants and sorceries dumped, I franatically dug for a Gut Shot or a Shock to deal with the token...or a Phoenix to hold him back...and failed, giving him the win.
Game 3 was a matter of "Let's see how often I can hold back St Traft with Phoenix", the Angel came true sure enough but at the same time he lost more valuable resources then I did. Arc Trail helped dealing with his Snapcaster while at the same time giving me back Phoenix, and due to that, my damage outraged his Vapor Snags for the 2-1
Round 3: Vs Kudoltha Red (2-1)
Game 1: I had a mediocre hand but figured I could hold it...until he started with Memnite, Kudoltha Rebirth, followed up by Signal Pest, Ichor Wellspring and another Rebirth. Yeah, there was no way for me to hold that back.
Game 2: Ratchet Bomb on T2 withheld him from just dropping his Kudoltha, with that threat out I could simply build up my field and ended up overwhelming him, not a lot of interactions in this game.
Game 3: He had gotten me on low life due to an early assault, and I found out he plays Hellrider. That in mind, the end game I had to play cautious despite having a superior board position, as a single Hellrider could instantly KO me if he played it out well. However at the same time, Shrine of Burning Rage was ticking for me, and he didn't get anything out before the Shrine blew up and killed him.
Round 4: Vs Mono-Green Aggro (2-0)
Game 1: He started out pretty good with Geist and a few Elves and Birds, but he had a problem in that it was impossible for him to deal with my Phoenixes, especially once Arc Trail had dealt with his BoP's. I simply outraced him for damage and while it was close, I just did too much, too fast, and could hold the Strangleroot Geists he threw at me with relative ease.
Game 2: His T1: Forest, Llanowar. My T1: Mountain, Grafdigger's Cage. He followed up with another Llanowar and Strangleroot, wanting to put on the pressure, but Arc Trail shot that down. A BoP and another Strangleroot hit, another Arc Trail, and due to those two 2-for-1's, the advantage became too much in my favor for him to catch up even after he got Sword of War and Peace out, and I could hit home enough damage for the win.
Post-Tourney Decklist Reflection:
Bye Goblin Fireslinger. Was nice knowing you.
Not as impressed with the Shrine as I hoped I'd be, though it is a nice clock and all that.
Arc Trail is BEAST and should IMO be an automatic 4-off in RDW. But that's just me.
Ratchet Bomb is too good to not sideboard. Shame I only have two.
Just. So. Versatile. Need a recurring meatshield? Check. A beater? Check. Faithless Looting material? Check. The Phoenix does it all. And with Arc Trail, you are pretty much guaranteed a 2-for-1 even if your opponent only has 1 creature out.
I personally run 4 of them. Grim Lavamancer + Looting is my second prefered start (After Noble + Any burn spell), and in the mid game with a Chandra or two it becomes brutal. But as said above, try out a few configurations yourself, some would prefer running one or two less.
Well thank you Smokie for adding to the discussion with that amazingly well-thought out post, I am sure you have convinced everyone with that.
The reason I made this topic is because I personally have found the Wardriver to work really well, and thought it'd be nice to explore or at least test a few other options and gather some opinions about them. Too often do I have the T1 Stromkirk and then find myself lacking the Gut Shot to push the damage through for T2 Stormblood, hence why.
How to stop ETB effects unless you have counterspells? We shouldn't be forced to play blue because of this.
Torpor Orb says 'sup.
Also, wasn't everyone forced to play Blue years ago anyway? I mean it's not like Blue has never been the uberdominant colour, right?
I am quite surprised by the fact that the downpowering that is going on in the Innistrad block is not mentioned once so far. Yeah there are still rather powerful creatures, but not on Titan level anymore. Once the Scars block is gone, we still have a lot of power, but not as much in the way of ETB-Madness anymore. Yeah there is Snapcaster and Delver but they are manageable. I am really interested in seeing how the next year or so progresses, if they keep this power level up (And don't print too much token love from this point on), then I think we'll be seeing a lot of fun soon.
What would be fun is if we'd see a few tribes that, while they do exist, haven't had as much limelight time as their more iconic counterparts. For Green, for example, why not go with Centaurs, and make a Centaur lord that's kinda like...
Centaur Chief :2mana::symg:
Other Centaur creatures you control have +1/+1 and trample
3/2
And a few centaurs (old and new) to go with them. Black could use the earlier suggestion of Rats over Zombies/Vampires, Red perhaps with Dwarves instead of the typical Goblins. Would be kind of fun.
Another point, they are too narrow. They all have highly similar abilities (The +1/+1 thing), whereas the other tribes have a lot more variety in their tricks. They only really have combat tricks (Aside from the grandmommy Olivia), meaning that they can't really give any form of control or anything. And Olivia in a vampire tribal...she's too slow for that, she's more at home in more controlling builds. And they are on the frail side too.
I think it is fairly well established that RDW has a few good 1-drops (Stromkirk Noble, Grim Lavamancer, Spikeshot Elder, Goblin Arsonist, all ofcourse depending on the specifics of the deck), as well as 3 (Chandra's Phoenix) and 4 (Hellrider, Hero of Oxid Ridge), each with their own advantages and disadvantages. But what is the best to put on the 2-drop? Now I can already hear you say Shrine of Burning Rage, but I'm talking purely creatures. Which one is better at what point and why? I figure a nice discussion is in place.
There are a few different options, each with their own pros and cons. I'll list them here.
Stormblood Berserker
I think this is the most popular at this point. Relatively easy to enable him to be a 3/3, and the fact that he requires two blockers make him a strong card. However, he does require a lot of attention in the form of having to guarantee some damage. If you have problems landing that first blow (Thanks to stuff like Vapor Snag, or a blocker holding you back while you don't have a burn spell etc), then the Berserker suddenly becomes a lot less attractive. While it isn't hard to get damage through usually, there are plenty of times where it suddenly is a lot harder. This need for attention has made me at least shy away from it.
+ Big body if summoned at the right time
+ Pulls at least two blockers away, if they aim to stop him
- Requires pre-done damage, making it less reliable then certain other options.
- Only 1/1 if you can't push damage through.
Ashmouth Hound
This is an interesting one. At 2/1 he isn't particulary impressive, but he has that interesting ability of dealing 1 damage to any blocking creature before the actual damage. This makes him a mini-Hero of Oxid Ridge, in that he can't be stopped by creatures with 1 toughness. As a bonus, creatures with 1 toughness that attack will also get sniped off by him. It also enables him to take down 3 toughness creatures, though those aren't too common. He probably isn't the strongest option but in a token heavy meta, before the anthems hit, he's pretty nifty.
+ Token killer
+ Can take down 3 toughness creatures
- Frail body
- Does not apply the extra damage if he gets unblocked.
Bloodcrazed Neonate
This one is a lot like Stromkirk Noble, and yet it isn't nearly as good. The fact that it has to attack keeps it down, you can't really play strategic with her. Also, she too starts out 2/1. If she connects once, then she becomes above average, but again a simple Vapor Snag stops the effort you have put in her. While the Noble faces the same issue, he is only a 1 mana drop, making it less painful. That said, an unchecked Neonate can wreak havoc upon control decks that face the twin threat of her and the Noble, especially if you can remove blockers to allow at least one hit.
+ Can grow to be rather scary
+ Must be answered quickly
- Starts out frail
- Highly vulnerable to removal/bounce
Goblin Wardriver
I mentioned above that I personally swapped out the Berserker. This had been my replacement of choice. It has a few things over the others that made me pick it. First of all, it has a 2/2 body, which lets him survive just a bit more. Secondly, Battle Cry. It is a strong ability, especially if you curve out properly and get Chandra's Phoenix next turn. Sure, it's no Hero of Oxid Ridge but it is only 2 mana. Furthermore, if you get multiples of these on the field they are arguably more threatening then the Berserker since they will allow you to chug out more damage then the Berserker could due to them supporting the team. My personal favorite.
+ Battle Cry
+ Supports your entire field
+ More toughness then most of Red's 2-drops
- Not as initially big as a properly played Berserker
- Easily stopped in its tracks, though it will pull away attention from other threats.
Torch Fiend
The final card I find to be at least possibly good, Torch Fiend isn't my personal pick. Like most other Red 2-drops, he has that frail 2/1 body. More importantly though is his ability, for 1 red, you destroy an artifact. This can throw a spanner in the works for certain decks, and it is particulary fun to block something and then proceed to blow up an artifact, but not every deck runs those. Also, he requires open mana to do his thing, therefore he might not exactly fit in the standard RDW gameplan. But I would consider it a sideboard possibility.
+ Destroys artifacts for only 1 mana
+ Can generate a 2-for-1 tradeoff
- Again, a frail body
- Requires open mana to do his thing
- Not every deck plays (important) artifacts
So yeah, these are my opinions. There are a few other 2-drops, but I don't think any of those are as versatile/powerful as the above ones. I'd love to hear your opinions though, and see what else we can come up with.
I'm in the Pro-Looting camp. I went 4-0 at FNM tonight (I know I know, not that representative), and several of the games were won simply by using Looting-Lavamancer or Looting-Phoenix. You shouldn't see it as being a drawpower card or as it giving disadvantage - see it as a filter card that happens to allow a few cute synergies. I wouldn't run it in a deck that doesn't mainboard Arc Trail though, simply because Arc Trail is the best Phoenix enabler and Phoenix is the best card with Looting.
The ability to chuck extra Mountains or dig for neccesary Mountains is a nice bonus.
Deathbringer Thoctar has done some amazingly fun things for me. Whether it is from being pared up next to a Mephidross Vampire, or from being equipped with a Basilisk Collar, or if Death Pits of Rath was laying behind him, he's been doing crazy fun stuff. Yeah it requires some specific support to really work, but it's not hard to fit most of those in your deck, leave alone tutor for it. If you get it out with one of the afformentioned cards, it basically tells your opponents to go ahead and try to lay down a creature. Yeah he is a target for quick removal but by that time it likely swept the board at least once for you.
Right, I've added the Prospector in.
I'm not sure about the Ingot-Relic, though both are considered.
The 1-damage-pingers just don't kill enough IMO given the fact that I don't have ways to give deathtouch like Death pits of Rath around here, so I'm iffy about including those.
The Talisman gives more instant mana...only on T2. Otherwise, the Signet is just better, and given how frail this deck can be, I'd rather not take more damage then strictly required.
Are there any specific ways one would go about to make the Sharpshooter and Thornbite Staff worth more then just pinging a bit?
Ofcourse you do realize that he meant the Mana Doublers That Cost Six Mana, right?
OT: As has been stated before me, timing is everything. The slower your deck, the more likely it is to get mileage out of Caged Sun. Mana Reflection should always be in green ofcourse.
Ah yes, I failed to spot Kataki. You could run Devoted Caretaker if you fear spot removal, Glory is fun in your graveyard, Earnest Fellowship combined with Eight-And-A-Half-Tails works like a charm, Flickering Charm can work as well, most of those are especially good combined with the Kitsune. When it comes to Mass Removal protection, you could look into some Flicker cards, though I'm blanking on names right now that'd help you during opponent's turns aside from Flickerform.
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Goblin Fireslinger
4 Faithless Looting
3 Shock
2 Gut Shot
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Arc Trail
3 Shrine of Burning Rage
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Hellrider
23 Mountain
3 Slagstorm
3 Traitorous Blood
3 Torpor Orb
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ratchet Bombs
2 Manabarbs
Any questions as to why I don't run more of a specific card can be filed away under "Don't have them".
FNM, 4 rounds, 4-0 = Win tournament
Round 1: Vs Black/White Tokens (2-1)
Game 1 went surprisingly easy, he seemed to choke a bit on his draws whereas I curved out nicely and got the board presence I wanted, and things just went my way.
Game 2 he had gotten out a Zombie token with Sword of War and Peace, which simply tore past me, didn't help that I couldn't get rid of the mountains in my hand so he won that one.
Game 3 almost looked to follow the same blueprint though I gotten him down further, in the end I had two Phoenixes and Lavamancers out against his Zombie, he was at 8 life but I didn't have enough cards in my discard...then I ripped a Shock from my topdeck and did enough damage to win.
Round 2: Vs Delver/Snapcaster/Geist (2-1)
Game 1 he got his Delver but a Shock took care of him transforming. Combined with Gut Shot and Arc Trail keeping the field clear of his tokens, Hellrider and Wardriver did the rest in punching through his life.
Game 2 he had gotten out a bunch of Flashfreeze from his sideboard which hurt pretty badly. I still got him down on his life but at the same time he had filled his grave and got enough tokens to hold me back. A Runechanter's Pike was ready and once he had enough instants and sorceries dumped, I franatically dug for a Gut Shot or a Shock to deal with the token...or a Phoenix to hold him back...and failed, giving him the win.
Game 3 was a matter of "Let's see how often I can hold back St Traft with Phoenix", the Angel came true sure enough but at the same time he lost more valuable resources then I did. Arc Trail helped dealing with his Snapcaster while at the same time giving me back Phoenix, and due to that, my damage outraged his Vapor Snags for the 2-1
Round 3: Vs Kudoltha Red (2-1)
Game 1: I had a mediocre hand but figured I could hold it...until he started with Memnite, Kudoltha Rebirth, followed up by Signal Pest, Ichor Wellspring and another Rebirth. Yeah, there was no way for me to hold that back.
Game 2: Ratchet Bomb on T2 withheld him from just dropping his Kudoltha, with that threat out I could simply build up my field and ended up overwhelming him, not a lot of interactions in this game.
Game 3: He had gotten me on low life due to an early assault, and I found out he plays Hellrider. That in mind, the end game I had to play cautious despite having a superior board position, as a single Hellrider could instantly KO me if he played it out well. However at the same time, Shrine of Burning Rage was ticking for me, and he didn't get anything out before the Shrine blew up and killed him.
Round 4: Vs Mono-Green Aggro (2-0)
Game 1: He started out pretty good with Geist and a few Elves and Birds, but he had a problem in that it was impossible for him to deal with my Phoenixes, especially once Arc Trail had dealt with his BoP's. I simply outraced him for damage and while it was close, I just did too much, too fast, and could hold the Strangleroot Geists he threw at me with relative ease.
Game 2: His T1: Forest, Llanowar. My T1: Mountain, Grafdigger's Cage. He followed up with another Llanowar and Strangleroot, wanting to put on the pressure, but Arc Trail shot that down. A BoP and another Strangleroot hit, another Arc Trail, and due to those two 2-for-1's, the advantage became too much in my favor for him to catch up even after he got Sword of War and Peace out, and I could hit home enough damage for the win.
Post-Tourney Decklist Reflection:
Bye Goblin Fireslinger. Was nice knowing you.
Not as impressed with the Shrine as I hoped I'd be, though it is a nice clock and all that.
Arc Trail is BEAST and should IMO be an automatic 4-off in RDW. But that's just me.
Ratchet Bomb is too good to not sideboard. Shame I only have two.
MVP: Chandra's Phoenix
Just. So. Versatile. Need a recurring meatshield? Check. A beater? Check. Faithless Looting material? Check. The Phoenix does it all. And with Arc Trail, you are pretty much guaranteed a 2-for-1 even if your opponent only has 1 creature out.
1. Ping
2. Deathtouch
3. 1 Damage Kills
Eight-And-A-Half-Tails
1. Protect
2. Defend
3. CHARGE
The reason I made this topic is because I personally have found the Wardriver to work really well, and thought it'd be nice to explore or at least test a few other options and gather some opinions about them. Too often do I have the T1 Stromkirk and then find myself lacking the Gut Shot to push the damage through for T2 Stormblood, hence why.
Torpor Orb says 'sup.
Also, wasn't everyone forced to play Blue years ago anyway? I mean it's not like Blue has never been the uberdominant colour, right?
Centaur Chief :2mana::symg:
Other Centaur creatures you control have +1/+1 and trample
3/2
And a few centaurs (old and new) to go with them. Black could use the earlier suggestion of Rats over Zombies/Vampires, Red perhaps with Dwarves instead of the typical Goblins. Would be kind of fun.
There are a few different options, each with their own pros and cons. I'll list them here.
Stormblood Berserker
I think this is the most popular at this point. Relatively easy to enable him to be a 3/3, and the fact that he requires two blockers make him a strong card. However, he does require a lot of attention in the form of having to guarantee some damage. If you have problems landing that first blow (Thanks to stuff like Vapor Snag, or a blocker holding you back while you don't have a burn spell etc), then the Berserker suddenly becomes a lot less attractive. While it isn't hard to get damage through usually, there are plenty of times where it suddenly is a lot harder. This need for attention has made me at least shy away from it.
+ Big body if summoned at the right time
+ Pulls at least two blockers away, if they aim to stop him
- Requires pre-done damage, making it less reliable then certain other options.
- Only 1/1 if you can't push damage through.
Ashmouth Hound
This is an interesting one. At 2/1 he isn't particulary impressive, but he has that interesting ability of dealing 1 damage to any blocking creature before the actual damage. This makes him a mini-Hero of Oxid Ridge, in that he can't be stopped by creatures with 1 toughness. As a bonus, creatures with 1 toughness that attack will also get sniped off by him. It also enables him to take down 3 toughness creatures, though those aren't too common. He probably isn't the strongest option but in a token heavy meta, before the anthems hit, he's pretty nifty.
+ Token killer
+ Can take down 3 toughness creatures
- Frail body
- Does not apply the extra damage if he gets unblocked.
Bloodcrazed Neonate
This one is a lot like Stromkirk Noble, and yet it isn't nearly as good. The fact that it has to attack keeps it down, you can't really play strategic with her. Also, she too starts out 2/1. If she connects once, then she becomes above average, but again a simple Vapor Snag stops the effort you have put in her. While the Noble faces the same issue, he is only a 1 mana drop, making it less painful. That said, an unchecked Neonate can wreak havoc upon control decks that face the twin threat of her and the Noble, especially if you can remove blockers to allow at least one hit.
+ Can grow to be rather scary
+ Must be answered quickly
- Starts out frail
- Highly vulnerable to removal/bounce
Goblin Wardriver
I mentioned above that I personally swapped out the Berserker. This had been my replacement of choice. It has a few things over the others that made me pick it. First of all, it has a 2/2 body, which lets him survive just a bit more. Secondly, Battle Cry. It is a strong ability, especially if you curve out properly and get Chandra's Phoenix next turn. Sure, it's no Hero of Oxid Ridge but it is only 2 mana. Furthermore, if you get multiples of these on the field they are arguably more threatening then the Berserker since they will allow you to chug out more damage then the Berserker could due to them supporting the team. My personal favorite.
+ Battle Cry
+ Supports your entire field
+ More toughness then most of Red's 2-drops
- Not as initially big as a properly played Berserker
- Easily stopped in its tracks, though it will pull away attention from other threats.
Torch Fiend
The final card I find to be at least possibly good, Torch Fiend isn't my personal pick. Like most other Red 2-drops, he has that frail 2/1 body. More importantly though is his ability, for 1 red, you destroy an artifact. This can throw a spanner in the works for certain decks, and it is particulary fun to block something and then proceed to blow up an artifact, but not every deck runs those. Also, he requires open mana to do his thing, therefore he might not exactly fit in the standard RDW gameplan. But I would consider it a sideboard possibility.
+ Destroys artifacts for only 1 mana
+ Can generate a 2-for-1 tradeoff
- Again, a frail body
- Requires open mana to do his thing
- Not every deck plays (important) artifacts
So yeah, these are my opinions. There are a few other 2-drops, but I don't think any of those are as versatile/powerful as the above ones. I'd love to hear your opinions though, and see what else we can come up with.
The ability to chuck extra Mountains or dig for neccesary Mountains is a nice bonus.
I'm not sure about the Ingot-Relic, though both are considered.
The 1-damage-pingers just don't kill enough IMO given the fact that I don't have ways to give deathtouch like Death pits of Rath around here, so I'm iffy about including those.
The Talisman gives more instant mana...only on T2. Otherwise, the Signet is just better, and given how frail this deck can be, I'd rather not take more damage then strictly required.
Are there any specific ways one would go about to make the Sharpshooter and Thornbite Staff worth more then just pinging a bit?
Ofcourse you do realize that he meant the Mana Doublers That Cost Six Mana, right?
OT: As has been stated before me, timing is everything. The slower your deck, the more likely it is to get mileage out of Caged Sun. Mana Reflection should always be in green ofcourse.