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  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    Hm... maybe Tom shouldn't consider Fuwa after all.
    Quote from Prophylaxis »
    FINAL Vote Count 1.32

    Azrael (9): Vaimes, Rhand, dkingsland967, KittyCupCake, Axelrod, Fuwa, shadowlancerx, Cantripmancer, killjoy
    Fuwa (5): Grapefruit21, Sir Chris, tomsloger, vezokpiraka, Lastwhisper
    shadowlancerx (1): beeboy
    Vaimes (1): Azrael

    Every player was voting in the final votecount, and it's incredily unlikely the entire scum team was bussing Azrael at the end of the day. It's a virtual lock there is scum within the group that stayed on Fuwa (+ Beeboy).

    Tom himself is in that group, and vezok is clearly off the table. The shot should be taken from within the group of four players not voting for Azrael here.

    Side note: Regarding Chris's theory that Tom is scum and gained a day kill from the Azrael lynch, it's worth noting he wasn't on it. Vezok claimed he has to actually participate in a town lynch to unlock an ability, so the idea of them balancing each other out is DOA.
    Quote from Lastwhisper »
    Quote from Vaimes »
    And what do you mean, "some kind of gate" re: cop checks?

    You think I'm town, but if I said I have mechanical confirmation that tom is scum then you wouldn't believe me. I see a problem with that.
    based on your personality, I would more likely believe it is an FPS sorta play, by hard cop checks, I mean alignment cops, which I very rarely see in MTGS games, unless there is some kind of catch to using them, or activating them, I guess a one-shot could be a thing, but alignment cops are still super swingy, and I wouldn't really call that being gated

    The thing Vaimes quoted was what I said "What??" to in my earlier post.

    In a 7-12 player game, maybe. And maybe things have changed dramatically in the last two years or so, but from what I recall of games this size on MTGS, they almost always have a limited-shot alignment cop at a minimum.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    Quote from Sir Chris »
    One thing I will say is if you shoot dkings and he flips scum I will have my suspicion of you vanish, because he has said a few things that have bothered me (especially as it relates to the viability of a fuwa shot but also how he seems to live in a 'assume fuwa is town world' for his reads on other people) so I will be interested to see if perhaps this is a giant misunderstanding.
    I don't love the way you're weaponizing your read on Tom to try to force the direction of his shot.

    And FTR, while I concede Fuwa may not be the single best shot choice, I still think she's fair game.

    Do I think she is more likely to be town than scum? Yes, because counterwagon and the way Az clammed up.

    I guess it's a theory difference, but I think a vig's job is to eliminate scummy players who are probably going to get lynched at some point, even if they aren't particularly likely to be scum. If town, it removes a "good" mislynch from the PoE pool and increases the amount of effort the scum team has to put in on future day phases. If they turn out to actually be scum, it's a cherry on top.

    And I do believe Fuwa is likely to be lynched at some point, barring a slam dunk "Nope not lynching that" claim. There are more than a few people who still believe she is scum into D2, plus there will always be the lingering question of did she try to fall on a grenade for her JoaT teammate?

    I also think Megiddo is a good shot choice, for some of the same reasoning. Beeboy was pretty iffy D1, had a fair amount of suspicion come his way, and his "falling for the claim" comment on Az was... weird. Also, Megiddo's lack of engagement kinda smells like a player who replaced in hoping to dive into the game, saw their scum role PM, and got bummed out.

    Quote from Lastwhisper »
    Quote from Vaimes »
    (If I had a red check on tom, I would wait until after his shot to claim it.)
    in the hypothetical that this was real, I wouldn't believe it

    I think tom is more likely town then not, and hard cop checks are very rarely seen without some kind of gate

    What??

    Quote from vezokpiraka »
    Also tom is now heavily in the town core. This is not scum tom and I'm willing to lay my life on that read.

    Is this based solely on meta, or something that has actually happened in this game?

    Quote from Sir Chris »
    Super long re-read ISO post

    So, tl;dr: We should lynch Killjoy, like I've been saying for two days.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    That’s.... not the scum reaction I was hoping to draw out. Hrm.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    OK, finished my re-read of EoD. Most significant notes to follow:

    - Tom's naked vote of Fuwa pings, especially when considering he was also one of the /barners that followed me onto both Killjoy and Beeboy.
    Quote from tomsloger »
    Dont think theyre more likely scum than az, but definitely >rand after that popin and its the best counterwagon weve had.

    Why did we need a counterwagon if, in your own words, Az was more likely to be scum? For that matter, why did we need a counterwagon at all?

    - I didn't love Shadow's vote switch, but his 1152 is a pretty reasonable response to questioning.

    - Cantrip's vote on Fuwa is... odd, especially after he kept defending her. Then 1165 feels like pre-emptive explanation in case anyone calls him on it. But he keeps posting stuff I like and agree with. If there is scum in my town reads, it's probably him, but I'm keeping him in blue for now.

    Quote from Killjoy »
    I feel like Shadow is pushing fuwa on a misunderstanding.

    I also would like to point out that Shadow restated my thoughts on Wisp as his own. Shadow is scum. Can we pretty please Lynch him?

    KJ pops in and pushes.... Shadow? This post is a literal waste of space, and I still don't like the way he was non-committal on both wagons.

    Quote from Vaimes »
    If y’all drag this out for another four days I am going to vomit.

    Single best post in the entire game.

    Quote from Sir Chris »
    By the way I would be totally fine with murering Axelrod in about 5 seconds flat and not waiting for a claim.

    Just to be very clear.

    Where did this come from?

    Quote from Lastwhisper »
    Azreal did exactly what he needed to do as either a wolf or villager, and whoever stated that he stopped trying after his train died down, is literally just trying to blow smoke to get his train back up, especially when Azreal stated he can't play like he used to

    Just let it go, we can easily evaluate Azrael as the days go on, I think from his play here that he 99% of the time flips town, and wolves were just beating a dead horse over and over

    In the mean time, vote: Fuwa

    This post is atrocious.

    The thing about how Azrael stopped trying after his wagon died down is factually and verifiably accurate, and dismissing it as "blowing smoke" is scummy. Az never finished fleshing out his reads, and once Fuwa started garnering votes he just popped in to note to the mod that Fuwa requested an extension.

    "Just let it go, we can easily evaluate Azrael as the days go on" can pretty much be translated to "Just let it go, we can easily evaluate Azrael while he powers up his scum abilities"

    LW is either bad scum, or town who cares more about wanting people to think he's right than lynching scum which is almost as detrimental.

    - Azrael fading into the background and not finishing his list of reads once Fuwa's wagon popped up indicates that he thought he was in the clear. I'm not sure I feel strongly enough about this to call Fuwa town, but if she was also scum I think Azrael would have kept fleshing out more reads and try to pull the town in a different direction. I retract my desire for Tom to shoot her. It might be better if we ask her to prove her claim with the Neighborizer shot. I don't think I've ever seen a scum Neighborizer, and if the claim was a lie that's the part most likely to be fabricated.

    My vote is staying on Killjoy, but I would support an LW wagon or Tom shooting him.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    Quote from Axelrod »
    Dking expressed doubts, but for a weird reason in my opinion. He doesn't think the "Cop" shot Az claimed lines of with the "Flavor" of Karn. Of all the reasons to have problems with the claim, this...was not one of them. My spider sense is tingling a tiny bit here.

    This is either an intentional misrep, or you are not being thorough in your analysis. Neither is a good look.

    I gave four reasons why I didn't believe Az's claim, and that post came before Vez's weigh-in so you have clearly read past it at this point.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    You could be right... my only counter to that would be that the second Az quote came from his late-day posting, where he also called Killjoy "tonally town" and said we needed to take his word for it.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    I'm going to make it my plan today to completely reread the last couple pages of D1 and examine how the votes moved back and forth between Az and Fuwa. In the meantime...
    Quote from Azrael »
    Quote from dkingsland967 »

    - Killjoy makes me most uneasy of anyone so far. Post 52 has an assertive tone when asking KCC about the switch from Vezok to Fuwa,


    Uh, bro, you're pulling an assertive tone from him saying: "Vez did what now? Talk me through this unvote->vote."

    Quote from dkingsland967 »

    but then in 59 he doesn't acknowledge her response and says he agrees with her. There is something off about the way he approaches Fuwa in 59 as well... it's wishy-washy and feels like he's tossing a softball out there to see if anyone else picks it up and runs with it.


    Quote from "KJ" »

    I actually kind of agree with KCC re: Fuwa, though not for her reasons (KCC: I recall your pronoun being female. Am I correct? It's been a while).

    I'm kinda feeling a weird overly innocent tone coming from Fuwa... but I'm not sure if that's just normal for them.


    Eh? *Squints* Meh.

    Quote from dkingsland967 »

    Also, this:

    These town reads don't add up. I had not yet posted anything outside of RVS, and I mentioned the weird KCC interactions above.

    Unvote
    Vote Killjoy


    Why don't they add up?

    Did anyone else on this wagon have anything more interesting to work with?

    Quote from Azrael »
    Quote from dkings »

    Everyone has either glossed over or ignored the other point I made against Killjoy in the post where I voted him. In 52, he uses a assertive tone toward KCC when he says "walk me through this". He wants an answer. Then, when KCC gives him one just a few posts later, he doesn't acknowledge it and just agrees with her re:Fuwa, with a "toss this out and see if it sticks" vibe.


    Town. Actually getting upset when people don't pick up on his good reads. How many scum think to fake that kind of emotion?

    Do you guys really not think this is a thing?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    Quote from Sir Chris »
    Dk why do you think fuwa is a good shot but think it would be risky to move from fuwa to Az for scum kcc?

    I've already stated why I think Fuwa is a good shot.

    Axelrod made a very good point. In a world where Fuwa is town and KCC is scum, why would KCC try to sway momentum back to her buddy when Fuwa was at L-2? Add in the fact that Azrael didn't actually have to get to 9 votes to potentially be lynched and it's even more risky.

    In a world where both Fuwa and KCC are scum, I don't think it makes sense either, but that's more based on a hunch that Azrael likely had a very strong role. Weak abilities generally don't require jumping through hoops to unlock them.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    I just looked back over the end-of-day posts regarding the deadline extension.

    Pro: Killjoy, Axelrod, Fuwa. Cantrip also said he would support an extension, but only if people wanted to switch off from lynching Azrael to lynching Tom, and vezok voted for it very late for the expressed reason that he didn't want to lynch Fuwa.

    Anti: KCC, Shadow, Rhand, Grape, Vaimes

    Made no comment: Tom, Chris, LW. Also beeboy, but he hasn't posted since the 14th.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    Quote from Axelrod »
    And then if hypothetical scum-KCC did move off Az and onto Fuwa, seeing that Fuwa was about to get lynched, it seems like it would have been much, much easier and better for scum to just let that happen. Rather than turn and lead the charge to re-bus Az all over again. I mean, it's theoretically possible - KCC could have been gambling that there wasn't enough time for more votes to shift back to Az - but just not at all likely. Even if Fuwa were scum, one would assume that scum would rather have had Fuwa lynched in that spot over Az, and if KCC was already voting Fuwa and would have then got the "credit" for being on a correct lynch, it just seems less and less plausible that KCC can be scum.

    I'm pretty much in agreement with all of this.

    Also, regarding the bolded sentence, the fact that we have plurality lynch makes it even less likely that scum would take that gamble.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    Looking at this vote count, I think exactly one scum /barned me onto Killjoy and the rest were hanging out being useless.

    Quote from Prophylaxis »
    Vote Count 1.7

    Killjoy (6): dkingsland967, Rhand, Cantripmancer, Axelrod, tomsloger, shadowlancerx
    Grapefruit21 (2): vezokpiraka, Sir Chris
    Cantripmancer (2): Fuwa, Vaimes
    Fuwa (1): KittyCupCake
    Rhand (1): Grapefruit21
    Azrael (1): Killjoy
    shadowlancerx (1): beeboy
    Syrenz (1): Azrael

    Abstain (1): Syrenz

    As far as I'm concerned vezok is confirmed town. I have very strong town reads on Shadow, Vaimes and KCC. Vaimes's points about KCC potentially being deep scum are reasonable, but there is no real reason to consider that possibility yet.

    I really liked Axelrod's late-day posts yesterday. Tom is on hold with this daykill claim.

    A Cantrip re-read might be in order. Anyone who supported Azrael's request for an extension gets scum points from me, and I believe Cantrip was on that short list.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    A Fuwa shot would be solid. She had two separate D1 wagons, so it's fairly likely she's going to get lynched sooner rather than later anyway. Her claim was vague and incomplete, and knowing her alignment would go a long way in analyzing how the end-of-day activity played out.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    I can’t quote the posts right now because I’m on mobile... Azrael hand-waved my Killjoy case multiple times during D1, then in post 997 he made a point of saying I was upset because people were ignoring my “good” reads. The read in question: the Killjoy case he ***** all over.

    Plus KJ’s late day posts about Azrael were super scummy, as was the way he dodged both wagons.

    Vote Killjoy
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    It's also possible that 1-2 scum reside in the V/LA players
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    The empathy nodes in my brain were starting to make me second guess lynching Azrael, but as soon as he asked for the deadline extention that went away.

    Also, today is my 5th wedding anniversary and after about two more hours I will be completely unavailable, so odds are my vote won't be moving regardless of anything that happens.

    @Shadow: Per game rules, the only way to no lynch is to actually have a majority vote for it. If the deadline passes, the player with the most votes dies.
    Posted in: Mafia
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