One thing I forgot to mention, is that it only works with Redcap since Finks would come back as a 2/1 and wouldn't trigger the Sigil Captain. But it's Green so it's Zenithable, its a 4 drop so you can Birthing Pod into it and its a 3/3 so it is safe from Pyroclasm
I might be mistaken, but don't the -1/-1 counters stay, if you use Sigil Captain?
Doesn't the -1/-1 counters stay on the creature the same way +1/+1 counters do?
No, 1 of the -1/-1 counters and 1 of the +1/+1 counters cancel each other out, so a Redcap would come back as a 3/3.
Quote from WotC Comp Rules »
121.3. If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it as a state-based action, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it. See rule 704.
I have been goldfishing a really bad build just to get the feeling of the deck (its currently just 4 of all the combo pieces + birthing pod) and I feel like if Melira gets killed, you're kind of pooched. What kind of redundancy can we have for Melira except for more Meliras? If we go with white we have Sigil Captain, but double white might be kind of difficult to pull off.
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Lotsa duals
Lotsa fetches
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90 something One with Nothings
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Ok, first off, life cast is broken in half. All of these cards, cept lightfield, do something that is ridiculous for paying 3 life over and over to copy. Using life as a way to cast extra spells should not be done this way.
Next is lightfield. Why is this white and not white black? It's an even more powerful version of Batwing Brume.
Also, every single one of these cards is undercosted. I understand there are other cards that do the samething that the lifecasters do for the same mana cost, however the difference is these you can copy and many times at that. So each of these should cost starting round four.
I was actually thinking that they would only be able to copy it once since it didnt state otherwise. I'll fix it so that it can only happen once.
Lightfield is white as an updated version of Boros Fury-Shield with out the need for red mana. And without paying the 3 life it is a Holy Day.
Mindbolt R Instant MIndbolt deals 3 damage to target creature. Lifecast: 3 (You may copy this spell one time by paying life equal to its lifecast cost.)
Lightfield 1W Instant Prevent all damage dealt to you this turn. If this spell was Lifecast, all opponents lose life equal to the damage prevented. Lifecast: 3 (You may copy this spell one time by paying life equal to its lifecast cost.)
Pathfinding 1G Sorcery Search your library for a basic land and put it onto the battlefield tapped. Lifecast: 3 (You may copy this spell one time by paying life equal to its lifecast cost.)
Meditation U Instant Draw a card. Lifecast: 3 (You may copy this spell one time by paying life equal to its lifecast cost.)
Arise 1B Instant Return target creature from your graveyard to your hand. Lifecast: 3 (You may copy this spell one time by paying life equal to its lifecast cost.)
Blagnarth the Exchanger 1WB [+1 ] Lose 3 life [-1] Gain 6 life [-5] Exchange life totals with target player Loyalty: 3
Grave Burning BR Sorcery Exile target creature from target players Graveyard. Deal damage to that player equal to the creatures converted mana cost.
Since each copy resolves separately and player A gets to arrange the 3 cards put on the bottom of his/her library, how does this situation pan out? I know that if he didn't have to arrange the 3 cards, it would be an easy mathematical solution to see how many iterations of 3 cards would be moved, but with player A stacking 3 cards at a time it changes things.
What happens if other replacement effects come into play? Say Player A has a Darksteel Colossus in his deck.
Sorry I have been gone for so long, havent had much to say lately, but I still keep up with the thread. I just have a quick question. Why is Sphinx of Jwar Isle getting so much play in this deck? I would say roughly 90% of the time I would much rather see Sphinx of Lost Truths. Those 3 cards it draws/filters for you are huge. I understand that the lack of shroud makes it vulnarable, but with Jace/Acidic Slime/Mold Shambler/Sphhinx of lost truths it doesnt really need more win conditions IMHO.
And if anyone is intrested in the list Im currently running, here it is:
What is a good SB vs Mill? There seems to be a lot of it here, and Im not sure how great the match up is. I was thinking Sages of the Anima. Its a 3/3 and will make it so you never have to draw a card and lose.
Test it, dude. On the original thread people had basically given up on beating RDW or Boros--it was considered an 'auto loss' (something I don't really believe in, but face it, we have a 25% chance at best). Counterspells i.e. Flashfreeze etc. are good, but tempo-wise they're counterproductive. And the unsummon effects we have in U are pitiful. Oh how I wish Lignify were still legal...
Unfortunatly I cant test anything until Friday. I dont play online and usually only play FNMs unless there is a bigger tourney going on.
Cataclaw: Great write up, keep testing. It seems like its a much better match up after the red comes in, still a hard match up, but not unwinnable.
I've thought about splashing red too, not to such an extent, but hey, your approach just might be what we need. It would be a heck of a surprise game 2! Haha.
It would eat a lot of SB slots, but who knows, it might be worth it. What if the SB looked like this:
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Mountain
4 Earthquake
2 Mind Control
3 Pithing Needle
The extra fetches would help thin the deck more to draw into the earthquakes/answers.
Sleep doesn't thrill me as a sideboard option. Unless i'm missing some important detail, all it does is buy you a turn (although if a haste creature is put into play, that can always get through)
As for Mind Control, i agree it can be a fun option, unfortunately it does cost 3UU. If we had Control Magic perhaps it wouldn't be so bad, but at 5 mana it's just not worth having in my view. The problem is aggro decks that dodge our land denial tactics. By turn 3 they've already hit you for 6-10 damage and they're dropping threats constantly, despite the land denial. Unsummon works beautifully, but is a 1-time 1-creature effect. Into the Roil is our next cheapest option at 1U, but even that is limited to 1 creature. When you're staring at two Steppe Lynx and a Goblin Guide on turn 3, about to come in for 10 damage, one unsummon effect just isn't sufficient.
I'm wondering if Kraken Hatchling can't be sideboarded in as a cheap blocker.
I don't know.. anyway. Not trying to be negative here guys, i love this deck, i've tested it a lot over the last two days and it's absolutely fantastic against most decks, but aggro decks such as Boros just completely disassemble us. We need stronger sideboard options! Thoughts?
Fog, Unsummon and Kraken Hatchling can all do the trick, but there's gotta be more and better options... i'm about to crack open the entire Standard visual spoiler and do some hunting!
I've been thinking about it lately, and I was thinking that maybe the SB could be almost transformational. What if we had 4 Scalding Tarn, 2 Mountain and 4 Earthquake in to the board. This way, the main deck is still just U/G LD, but after board it changes a little bit. Having a board sweeper may be neccassary against Boros. And for those playing Birds, then you would need less Land changes just to spalsh Earthquake. Plus if you really need to, you can Convincing Mirage your own land to cast it. Against boros, the most you really ever need is a 1 or 3 point EQ.
do the heavy hitters in this thread(people who know this deck) think that it could top 8 a large event?
the Richmond Open is this saturday and I am so torn I can build everything tier 1 in the format....originally I was leaning towards
1. Junk
2. Jund
3. Cruel Control
Im worried about cruel control since tectonic edge came out but I just won a box with it at a HUGE local.
Unless God talks to me, I don't think I'm going to play jund, mirror matches are boring.
And I have junk built but traded 2 KoTR's so I probably wont get them by saturday...
and then
Homebrews...this deck, monowhite felidar control and blightning boros
but I am driving far and spending a lot of money so I'm really scared to take this deck without some tweaks
I think it could do really really well. There is going to be a lot of 3 color decks at big events. If you look at star city games deck database and sort by things just this year, there is only 1 Eldrazi, 3 Red deck wins and 1 Boros on the first page of 1st places. The rest is all multicolored that we should wreck.
Quick really goofy thought. What if Mind Control was replaced in the SB with vapor Snare? With Halimar Depths it could be really good, even though it does stop you from getting more land unless you want to get rid of the creature. (Which you could just bounce when you're done with it)
I actually enjoy drawing them. Hierarch's Exalted status wins games, Garruk's ultimate with them in play wins games, and since I run Lost Truths, I can pitch them to the GY and keep the disruption I draw into. And those of us who run dorks dont need to draw extra disruption, we can play the disruption in our hands as we have sufficient mana. Im glad that the deck has worked well for you, I know there are games I barely stay ahead WITH the mana accel, maybe Im doing something wrong, lol.
I doubt you're doing anything wrong, lol. You have probably played more games with it since I have only been playing it for a week and have a different meta then myself. I just think that in the mid/late game (where the deck wins games), drawing a bounce spell or a spell that will draw you a card is better then drawing a 0/1. While exalted is nice, it changes Acid slime from a 10 turn clock into a 7 turn clock and Mold Shambler/Sphinx from a 7 turn clock to a 5 turn clock. Those 2 or 3 turns should be fairly irrelevant if you have done your job keeping your opponent off their removal color. If they draw into their removal color and try to Path/Pulse/Doom Blade/etc your guy, you should have the extra bounce in hand by then to return it to your hand for extra CIP shinnanigans. Exalted also doesn't help if you plan on swinging with more then 1 creature.
I think both strategies are fine. I just personally would rather strengthen then mid-range of the deck to allow for better stabilization then try for explosive openings that may lead to dead draws later in the game.
In my revised list (post #146), on turn 7 (assuming I have hit 5 out of 7 land drops or 4 with a Garruk), the closest thing to dead cards I can draw are basic land and Convincing Mirage and I should have plenty of cards in my hand. And Convincing Mirage still might be useful at that point in the game. Where as from your list in the first page on turn seven (assuming you have hit 5-7 mana sources), you could draw into Birds, Hierarch, Mirage or basic lands and your hand is probably fairly empty. Sure Birds and Hierarch could chump block, but the same effect could be gained from bouncing their creature and then bouncing/destroying/changing the needed land to recast it.
The Ring Masta: Thanks for the reply! You've had more experience with this deck, so i'm going to take your advice to heart and make some changes.
Not a problem. Just remember with Terastadon, you can target one of their lands, your own enchantment on that land and something else if needed just so they don't get all the 3/3s if all their land is already disrupted.
And the only advice I can give about playing Boros since I haven't had a chance to test against it is to just keep bouncing everything they drop. Once your own threat theirs shouldn't be as scary.
One thing I forgot to mention, is that it only works with Redcap since Finks would come back as a 2/1 and wouldn't trigger the Sigil Captain. But it's Green so it's Zenithable, its a 4 drop so you can Birthing Pod into it and its a 3/3 so it is safe from Pyroclasm
No, 1 of the -1/-1 counters and 1 of the +1/+1 counters cancel each other out, so a Redcap would come back as a 3/3.
Im thinking something along these lines maybe...
4 Viscera Seer
3 Sigil Captain
3 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
4 Murderous Redcap
3 Kitchin Finks
1 Scarland Thranix
1 Greater Gargadon
4 Birds of Paradise
Protection:
2 Grand Abolisher
Search:
4 Birthing Pod
4 Green Sun's Zenith
Land:
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Ancient Ziggurat
3 City of Brass
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Stomping Ground
3 Sacred Foundry
3 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Cataacombs
6 Sac outlets, 6 -1/-1 counter removers, 7 persist. Doesnt seem too bad.
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Foil Dark Confidant signed by Bob Maher (playset)
Foil promo Swords to Plowshares (palyset)
Foil promo Enlightened Tutor (playset)
Lotsa duals
Lotsa fetches
Foil Polluted Delta
Foil Bloodstained Mire (got for free)
FNM Brainstorm (playset)
Foil Daze (playset)
90 something One with Nothings
90 something Liege of the Pit (it has baby heads for a heart!!!)
Beta Sol Ring
Beta Demonit Tutor (signed)
Beta mana Vault
Beta Llanowar Elves (playset)
Beta Dark Ritual (playset)
Force of Will (playset)
I was actually thinking that they would only be able to copy it once since it didnt state otherwise. I'll fix it so that it can only happen once.
Lightfield is white as an updated version of Boros Fury-Shield with out the need for red mana. And without paying the 3 life it is a Holy Day.
R
Instant
MIndbolt deals 3 damage to target creature.
Lifecast: 3 (You may copy this spell one time by paying life equal to its lifecast cost.)
Lightfield
1W
Instant
Prevent all damage dealt to you this turn.
If this spell was Lifecast, all opponents lose life equal to the damage prevented.
Lifecast: 3 (You may copy this spell one time by paying life equal to its lifecast cost.)
Pathfinding
1G
Sorcery
Search your library for a basic land and put it onto the battlefield tapped.
Lifecast: 3 (You may copy this spell one time by paying life equal to its lifecast cost.)
Meditation
U
Instant
Draw a card.
Lifecast: 3 (You may copy this spell one time by paying life equal to its lifecast cost.)
Arise
1B
Instant
Return target creature from your graveyard to your hand.
Lifecast: 3 (You may copy this spell one time by paying life equal to its lifecast cost.)
Blagnarth the Exchanger
1WB
[+1 ] Lose 3 life
[-1] Gain 6 life
[-5] Exchange life totals with target player
Loyalty: 3
Grave Burning
BR
Sorcery
Exile target creature from target players Graveyard. Deal damage to that player equal to the creatures converted mana cost.
Since each copy resolves separately and player A gets to arrange the 3 cards put on the bottom of his/her library, how does this situation pan out? I know that if he didn't have to arrange the 3 cards, it would be an easy mathematical solution to see how many iterations of 3 cards would be moved, but with player A stacking 3 cards at a time it changes things.
What happens if other replacement effects come into play? Say Player A has a Darksteel Colossus in his deck.
And if anyone is intrested in the list Im currently running, here it is:
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Mold Shambler
4x Acidic Slime
3x Sphinx of Lost Truths
Planeswalkers:
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Garruk Wildspeaker
Enchantments:
4x Spreading Seas
4x Convincing Mirage
3x Aether Tradewinds
Sorceries
3x Mind Control
Land:
3x Halimar Depths
3x Tectonic Edge
4x Misty Rainforest
8x Forest
5x Island
4x Pithing Needle
4x Flash Freeze
7x I dont remember off the top of my head
Unfortunatly I cant test anything until Friday. I dont play online and usually only play FNMs unless there is a bigger tourney going on.
Cataclaw: Great write up, keep testing. It seems like its a much better match up after the red comes in, still a hard match up, but not unwinnable.
It would eat a lot of SB slots, but who knows, it might be worth it. What if the SB looked like this:
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Mountain
4 Earthquake
2 Mind Control
3 Pithing Needle
The extra fetches would help thin the deck more to draw into the earthquakes/answers.
Again, just an idea that Im brainstorming.
I've been thinking about it lately, and I was thinking that maybe the SB could be almost transformational. What if we had 4 Scalding Tarn, 2 Mountain and 4 Earthquake in to the board. This way, the main deck is still just U/G LD, but after board it changes a little bit. Having a board sweeper may be neccassary against Boros. And for those playing Birds, then you would need less Land changes just to spalsh Earthquake. Plus if you really need to, you can Convincing Mirage your own land to cast it. Against boros, the most you really ever need is a 1 or 3 point EQ.
Have you tried Unsummon yet?
I think it could do really really well. There is going to be a lot of 3 color decks at big events. If you look at star city games deck database and sort by things just this year, there is only 1 Eldrazi, 3 Red deck wins and 1 Boros on the first page of 1st places. The rest is all multicolored that we should wreck.
Quick really goofy thought. What if Mind Control was replaced in the SB with vapor Snare? With Halimar Depths it could be really good, even though it does stop you from getting more land unless you want to get rid of the creature. (Which you could just bounce when you're done with it)
I doubt you're doing anything wrong, lol. You have probably played more games with it since I have only been playing it for a week and have a different meta then myself. I just think that in the mid/late game (where the deck wins games), drawing a bounce spell or a spell that will draw you a card is better then drawing a 0/1. While exalted is nice, it changes Acid slime from a 10 turn clock into a 7 turn clock and Mold Shambler/Sphinx from a 7 turn clock to a 5 turn clock. Those 2 or 3 turns should be fairly irrelevant if you have done your job keeping your opponent off their removal color. If they draw into their removal color and try to Path/Pulse/Doom Blade/etc your guy, you should have the extra bounce in hand by then to return it to your hand for extra CIP shinnanigans. Exalted also doesn't help if you plan on swinging with more then 1 creature.
I think both strategies are fine. I just personally would rather strengthen then mid-range of the deck to allow for better stabilization then try for explosive openings that may lead to dead draws later in the game.
In my revised list (post #146), on turn 7 (assuming I have hit 5 out of 7 land drops or 4 with a Garruk), the closest thing to dead cards I can draw are basic land and Convincing Mirage and I should have plenty of cards in my hand. And Convincing Mirage still might be useful at that point in the game. Where as from your list in the first page on turn seven (assuming you have hit 5-7 mana sources), you could draw into Birds, Hierarch, Mirage or basic lands and your hand is probably fairly empty. Sure Birds and Hierarch could chump block, but the same effect could be gained from bouncing their creature and then bouncing/destroying/changing the needed land to recast it.
This is all just my opinion though.
Not a problem. Just remember with Terastadon, you can target one of their lands, your own enchantment on that land and something else if needed just so they don't get all the 3/3s if all their land is already disrupted.
And the only advice I can give about playing Boros since I haven't had a chance to test against it is to just keep bouncing everything they drop. Once your own threat theirs shouldn't be as scary.