MTG Salvation

i'm pestilence

How much did you listen to them

how are you all so scummy besides tom

Quote from TappingStones »

The Wheat Report

Here we go

Quote from Wheat_Grinder »

I think Johnny is scum, and I don't want to see him on the bench.

The first post of any significance is a naked scum read on GJ. It's directed towards Iso. It's not clear why Wheat gave no reasoning behind this. Others have been criticized in this very game for not showing any work or a single explanation for this kind of read.

I don't always give reasoning behind my reads, especially on the first two pages.

Quote from Wheat_Grinder »

Post 24 implies to me that Johnny wants to be the strongest player on the bench - It feels like he wants free reign of any jury he's on, and the proposed jury doesn't allow for that.

GJ's post doesn't imply this at all and it's quite early for Wheat to be suggesting that this is some kind of scum read. Equally easy would be for me to say "Hey look! Iso picked a jury team with SC and other strong players to blend in. Any set-up suggested can be interpreted for WIFOM purposes and I don't like that people are trying to crucify someone so hard for essentially no reason. Besides, GJ wouldn't have "free reign" on that proposed jury.

I have several issues with this so I've bolded them all. In order:

1. Yes, they do.
2. Too early? At 24 posts everyone's been allowed RVS and there's usually meat by then (and in this case, there wasn't RVS so that means there was extra meat).
3. I suppose you could say that, but the tone doesn't really back it up. Then again, I'm ***** at reading Iso.
4. Even if you were right and I had no reason (which is false), I tend to like to do exactly that - it goes hand-in-hand with not giving reasoning; make a man sweat even just a little and you can taste if he's a liar.
5. Yes, and he was unhappy with that. That's the basis of my reasoning - how can you say that it doesn't imply it when you agree with the basis?

Quote from Wheat_Grinder »

Your only sentence on Vaimes is that he'll tether the other two to reality - I don't know Vaimes so that means nothing to me, try again.

What is the point here? GJ knows Vaimes and you don't. He gave you a reason and because you don't know Vaimes that means his reason is invalid? How is YOUR lack of knowledge something that he has to solve? That's actually something for you to figure out by skimming previous Vaimes games.

You mean Iso, rather than GJ. My objective was to figure out why Iso evaluated Vaimes so high, because Iso is not someone who gives out that level of respect that quickly to new folks, so I see it as weird. Always, always, ALWAYS jump on weird.

Quote from Wheat_Grinder »

I've read your post #7 three times now, Iso. Let me put it another way since you're being stubborn, why Vaimes instead of someone like Rhand?

This one is directed at Iso. Again, the way you are asking this doesn't come across like you really care about the answer. Considering your reaction to GJ telling you about why he picked Vaimes I don't see why an Iso answer should be more useful.

Following up on a question that wasn't satisfactorily answered means I don't care about it?

And again, it was all to Iso in the first place, not to GJ.

Quote from Wheat_Grinder »

I would describe my playstyle as inevitably lazy.

I can see that = p

I'm not lazy yet, thanks.

Quote from Wheat_Grinder »

Chris feels genuine, I like him for town.

I want to know more about this. I've reread the Sir Chris posts up till this post. There's nothing there. He talks about looking out a window. That's it. Buddying with a strong player? Being lazy? What is this?

When I saw Chris' looking out the window thing I immediately thought to myself, "Yep, that's Chris". No other RP/storytelling bit that has happened this whole game has made me feel that way.

Quote from Wheat_Grinder »

I'm eager to figure out alignments, re: Chris. For you, I don't care about your mindset because I can't read you anyway. What I'm trying to dig into is literally any info about Vaimes since you regard him pretty highly, and you post more often than anyone so you're a good jumping off point or SO I THOUGHT

You are eager to figure out alignments? How is that true based on your play? You town cleared Chris with zero data.

The part about wanting to know about Vaimes is also a falsehood. If you were eager to know about Vaimes you would have already asked to see some relevant games from him. Others have already asked for your relevant games and you dug them up. Asking Iso his opinion of Vaimes AFTER he's already suggested him (along with GJ) is just trying to ride along with Iso.

Yes, I'm eager. It's very true based on my play where I now have decent reads on oh 8-10 people. I cleared him with reasoning that makes perfect sense to me - you're new, so get used to hearing this - WELCOME TO THE MIND OF THE GRINDER

It's also not a falsehood. Hearing about Vaimes from Iso is completely different information than hearing it from Vaimes. I didn't want the info from Vaimes, that wouldn't have been helpful - the information from Iso would have been very helpful.

Quote from Wheat_Grinder »

Quote from Gentleman Johnny »
I find your argument about my complaint to be incorrect then.

you find it to be *incorrect*??? Of course it's automatically incorrect by your perspective if you're town, why would you phrase it that way?

In response to GJ. You admit that his answer implies his town as if that's strange. What's going on here?

No, it implies that he's scum because if he was town he would have phrased it differently.

It's like how a human wouldn't say "Hello, fellow humans", but an alien pretending to be a human might.

Quote from Wheat_Grinder »

As to why Chris is town: Most folks tend to play around more when they're town, and if they play around as scum it doesn't come off as genuine. In particular, my gut thinks Chris is exactly that way.

As you well know, Sir Chris is very hard to read as either alignment. I've found him to be playful and carefree and scum and town. it isn't a tell. This reeks of backpedaling. You have to do better than this or else it looks like a slip.

As I well know, eh???

I had a hard time grasping Chris' mindset until one day I found out he was, on some level, a weeb (I mean no offense, Chris, I'm one too). I don't understand how you can call it backpedaling when I've doubled down on this all game.

And the point isn't that he's playful, it's that he's GENUINELY playful. There is a MASSIVE difference.

Quote from Wheat_Grinder »

While you're not most players, in this regard you are like most players.

I didn't used to think so but then I discovered you're secretly a massive weeb.

OoG: Alan Shore is the best character of all time, but I feel like The Practice wouldn't get as lighthearted as Boston Legal so I won't go out of my way to watch it. It's unfortunate. Boston Legal is like the only legal show that ever interested me.

SC rightly catches onto Wheat's mistake. Wheat tries to say he has a town tell on SC and then changes the subject to something non-game related.

Oh ***** I said Chris was a weeb there too.

And yes, I did move on to non-game related. The timing wasn't good, but James Spader is my favorite actor and I couldn't help myself.

Quote from Wheat_Grinder »

TappingStones is scum. I feel like CitricBase believed his link between Vaimes/Iso even though it's kinda dumb, but I don't believe TappingStones does - he's pushing the wagon because it's there I feel like.

There is no wagon. What are you talking about? I found Iso over-stepping with the Vaimes non-sense. Even Vaimes admitted he has no idea what Iso is going on about. To be fair I referenced my two previous games with Vaimes that have no such "analytical Vaimes" and Iso said those games are outliers (perhaps). My questioning here is fair and reasonable. Your push against me is hasty as was your push against GJ and your town read of SC.

So get trapped in semantics then - You saw someone else push on Iso and Vaimes, and you pushed too, even though Citric's reasoning was bunk ("Man, Iso sure talks about Vaimes a lot..." no ***** when I'm trying to press Iso for info on Vaimes).

Quote from Wheat_Grinder »

I agree that Vaimes/Iso never went anywhere, but that didn't stop TappingStones from trying - Citric lightly tapped the wagon, and Tapping was on it immediately.

Even when the reasoning was showed to be bunk.

Again, there was never a wagon. There was Citrus posting his idea and me adding to it and asking based on my games with Vaimes why the weird statement from Iso. Iso acknowledged that my games with Vaimes DON'T show the qualities that he is giving to Vaimes. This should be enough for you to get where I'm going.

Person A hears that person B has a behavior pattern of which person A has not witnessed.

Person A goes back and reads the previous games and then asks person C why he made the statement.

Person C admits that based on Person A's experience he knows why I feel this way about Person B.

Please show your work on the statement that "the case was shown to be bunk". Because "the case" was actually acknowledged by the accused as showing merit.

I was calling it bunk because you barned Citric. I don't know what you're talking about here but your barn of Citric was awful and THAT's what I called bunk.

Quote from Wheat_Grinder »

My town read of Chris came from the fact that he's having fun. I don't think that he could be as genuine about it as scum.

You are making SC sound like a terrible player and we all know this to be untrue. SC has shown many times that he can have fun and joke around as scum. Even more so than this. He's been pretty tame so far.

You seem to be under the delusion that just because a player is good doesn't mean you can't gain insight on them.

Quote from Wheat_Grinder »

My problem is not that you are RP'ing (which is completely appropriate and within bounds). My problem is that it doesn't feel genuine. You having stated that you would do so in sign-up thread explains a lot of that - I feel like if you hadn't said you would RP, you wouldn't be RP'ing right now. It doesn't feel like you really want to do it anymore, but you feel you have to because you said you would.

This part is total scum writing.

My rping doesn't feel genuine? Explain this. Show in detail which parts aren't genuine. All they consist of are lead-ins to some posts. And I enjoy doing them. Explain why you think I don't want to do them? I have many more to come as people start dying and the game progresses. I also don't feel like I have to at all. I could stop at any moment and no one would even reference them again. I wouldn't think twice about stopping the RP. I'm in no way bound to do it the whole game if it becomes a chore.

It's just such a fake thing for you to say. I can't imagine anyone from a town mindset ever thinking about this. It's just...gross.

I thought about this. I started typing, then erased it because it wasn't right. I went to the bathroom, and I urinated while pondering this. The only answer I have is: Explain to me the concept of blue.

To me, it feels forced. It feels...off. And if I could point exactly to where, I would. But I can't, because I can't explain the concept of blue. And I don't mean "certain wavelengths of light produce the color perceived as blue", I mean "but why do we perceive it as blue instead of something else entirely"?

---

Your case mostly boils down to "I don't understand it, so it must be wrong". Normally, that's the sort of case that I expect from town. However, you're pretty clever and I think you hit on it as a pretty good vehicle with which to push me. So in the end I still think you're scum.

I'm going to comment on something completely different here because Zionite's post made me realize something.

We need to bring basics back.

Put aside complexity a moment, what are the two issues we are really facing right now?

1. Not enough bodies.

2. Toxicity is increasing.

Basics are a great stepping stone for folks to jump into this community. Right now, they look at all these games and in many cases get intimidated. This leads to less bodies. But if we have basics, then they put their foot in the door, we set a hook to keep them coming back, and we have more bodies.

Plus, basics tend to be less serious, which might help vent some toxicity out of the community.

League games? Screw 'em. It was a nice idea that ended up being more trouble than it's worth. I think it fulfills a need that just isn't there. Making them any complexity would help a bit but why have the league in the first place? What is gained?

Complex games in general? Sure. But only with the proper stepping stones.

We have met the enemy killing mafia on this site, and it is us.

battle royale with cheese

I'd play in another KK game in a heartbeat

Wheat_Grinder thanks every single goddamn post in this entire game!

Quote from Generic »

Well you are gonna need to convince me she is scum cos I just don't see her faking frustration.

And I want to score points, not lose them. So when you are caught up I want that discussion with you.

Scum can be frustrated too? I've been very frustrated when I'm caught as scum.

Quote from Generic »

Also... What's wrong with linkin park?

SHUT UP WHEN I'M TALKING TO YOUUUUUUU

SHUT UP WHEN I'M TALKING TO YOUUUUUUU

SHUT UP WHEN I'M TALKING TO YOUUUUUUU

that's what's wrong

since this is mafia

does this put the clan in clandestine

/in

EDIT: 1 game as part of a hydra.

Quote from Half_Time »

Cyth did an excellent job early game of nabbing town pants.

heh heh heh

Quote from Wheat_Grinder »

What's your avatar from? I like the dancing.

Ranze from Tokimeki Tonight!

Comfortable crossdressing?

uncomfortable transgressing.

I'm unlynchable.

Comment Hidden

If players are looking for reviews, they could try pairing up with other League players and doing one for each other. Would be a way of getting something rather than nothing, and "crowd-sourcing" it.

Oh god I've made the burning couch a thing. A thing that people say.

I'm much happier with Silver Rage.

Holy crap.

I'm reading the mafia chat now. You guys were on me like a stingray on Steve Irwin!