So going off what you have started here I have developed a list of my own that is fairly similar. I like your ideas and I have built around them with the cards that I have avialable to me.
Hey guys,
Pretty new to the Twin deck but have got most of the parts on the way. Just needed a little help with the manabase and sideboard suggestions. Current list
Couple of notes for you guys to consider.
So this is obviously more the all in deck, copied pretty much from these forums. My main question relates around my land as I currently do not own any of the fetch lands. They are currently quite expensive but i will collect them as i can, but im not sure what would be the best land base to use without the fetches. What ratio of islands to mountains?
I do have a Breeding Pool and a Stomping grounds but im not sure they are worth running for the ancient grudges without the fetches.
My sideboard is also pretty loose and am not sure what cards are going to be more redundant with the current list i will have assembled.
Hey guys pretty new to this deck (still have not got all the pieces) but I have been reading your posts and I wanted to get some thoughts on the list I have thrown together. Keep in mind this is a loose list at the moment and nothing is set in stone except that it is a Pox hand disruption deck and therefor needs the core cards.
Hey guys pretty new to this deck (still have not got all the pieces: 4x Verdant Catacombs and 4x Fulminator Mage) but I have been reading your posts from the archive and I wanted to get some thoughts on the list I have thrown together. Keep in mind this is a loose list at the moment and nothing is set in stone except that it is a Living End deck and therefor needs the core cards
Cards that I feel perform well in this deck;
Centaur Healer - I think he does his job as a 3 drop really well, good body gain some life. Not the beast vs control but easy to side out.
Garruk, Primal Hunter - This card does some work! So great at applying pressure or drawing you cards.
Thragtusk - Obvious
Oblivion Ring - I find this card doing some real heavy lifting atm. Very useful.
Kessig Wolf Run - Wins games. Very useful for pushing through the last damage or blowing them out with alpha strikes.
Cards im unsure of;
Borderland Ranger - He is nice to mana fix but then usually just chumps, im not sure if i want more elephants (Loxodon Smiter) or Centaur Healers
Clifftop Retreat - I think i want to cut one for another Forest, a thrird wolf run or a cavern.
Sideboard - I think i have pretty good answers to most things, probably want an elephant sideboard too, maybe a cavern?
You sort of answer your own question. Huntmaster really isn't good enough if you need to spend T2 on Farseek. He doesn't have a big enough impact on his own. What this makes a greater question is does adding red really do anything significant over any other GW Farseek into late midgame deck. Bonfire for sure, but it's really the sort of same game. If you were investing heavier on red maybe something but you might as well be playing Angel of Serenity. And these sort of ramp decks(red or not) haven't really been quite good enough anyway. Good play and doing powerful stuff is always something but are you doing something uniquely relevant. It might just be as simple as the Farseek that seem so good come at an even greater cost than appears on the surface.
I have a problem, when I play decent jund midrange lists unless i get a pretty aggressive hand i find it very hard to beat them. I know we have appetite but i think we need more answers, how are others beating jund?
The last tournament i played I vs 3 jund decks. Beat 2 and lost to 1 but all the matches went to 3 games.
Pillar is good on mirror and versus every other type of aggro, except maybe gw (still useful for kill mana dorks and silverblade ).
but if u want to kill small guys isnt tragic just better? Although it needs a morbid trigger to get 2 or more toughness creatures, its instant and can kill creatures with more than 2 toughness with the morbid, also dosnt require red early. I know the exile is the reason its good but when vs things that dont need to be exiled i think i like slip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbat
why are Cavern of Souls being used?
I know there are plenty of non-zombies and cards that require red but playing a guildgate tapped when you need that 3rd turn messenger seems pretty annoying to me. Sure you can play around it by playing it when you dont need it but in those early turns we need full untapped mana until turn 4 (god hand situation).
Also it may help out as well if u need that red for a Falkenrath and you name vampire instead of zombie.
I tested with a 3/1 split of Caverns/Guildgate and was mana screwed in red too many times. The burn is really important in this deck, and by the end of the day having red mana was way better then having cavern.
1 drop into 1 drop guildgate is pretty good anyway, as blood artist isnt really needed on the curve.
I guess it depends on how many red burn spells u run and how early u want to cast them. In my old B/R zombie list pre RTR i only had 4x Dragonskull Summits and 4x Blackcleave Cliffs with 3 Cavern of Souls and i think i had more main deck red spells than i do in my current list and i only notice the mana screw on a few occasions. i think i will do some testing when i have the chance.
The deck is still pretty rough except for the core which I basically consider the creature package. Where it gets rough is the instant/sorcery section and the sideboard
Creature core is all there for obvious reasons and does not need much explanation, its how we aggro ppl and allow for the burn finish.
Instant and soceries;
Bump in the Night - the cheap repeatable burn that helps close the game.
Searing Spear - Acts as removal and extra range
Tragic Slip - Some nice instant removal, can get rid of large threats for cheap. Good against opposing Falkenraths.
Ultimate Price - More removal, a little narrow but will get most threats or blockers out of the way.
Sign in Blood - A little card draw, can act as burn if absolutely required.
Sideboard;
Underworld Connections - Good against control, used when games will go long
Rakdos Charm - Artifact hate, graveyard hate and a little extra range nice option card for many games
Dreadbore - Hating on Jace mainly but can be used against decks where ultimate price is not cutting it
Sever the Bloodline - Exile multiple copies, mainly for tokens, also repeatable
Cremate - More graveyard hate plus card draw
Pillar of Flame - Mainly for the mirror, also gives range.
Liliana of the Veil - Not sure if she fits, seems nice against some decks that have geist etc.
why are Cavern of Souls being used?
I know there are plenty of non-zombies and cards that require red but playing a guildgate tapped when you need that 3rd turn messenger seems pretty annoying to me. Sure you can play around it by playing it when you dont need it but in those early turns we need full untapped mana until turn 4 (god hand situation).
Also it may help out as well if u need that red for a Falkenrath and you name vampire instead of zombie.
1 Kor Duelist
1 Mother of Runes
1 Serra Ascendant
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Leonin Shikari
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Puresteel Paladin
2 Knight of the White Orchid
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Eternal Witness
3 Duergar Hedgemage
3 Intrepid Hero
3 Mentor of the Meek
3 Silverblade Paladin
3 Mirran Crusader
3 Kemba, Kha Regent
3 Aven Mindcensor
4 Hero of Bladehold
4 Leonin Abunas
4 Tajic, Blade of the Legion
4 Ranger of Eos
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
5 Karmic Guide
5 Reveillark
5 Sigarda, Host of Herons
5 Acidic Slime
5 Stonehewer Giant
6 Aurelia, the Warleader
6 Sun Titan
6 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Skullclamp
2 Swiftfoot Boots
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Darksteel Plate
3 Fireshrieker
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Sword of War and Peace
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
3 Sunforger
Artifacts
1 Sol Ring
3 Bow of Nylea
Enchantments
5 Assemble the Legion
Sorcery
1 Steelshapers Gift
6 Austere Command
Instant
1 Condemn
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Tithe
2 Boros Charm
2 Eladamri's Call
3 Chaos Warp
3 Ghostway
3 Orim's Thunder
3 Wing Shards
3 Krosan Grip
3 Oblation
4 Return to Dust
4 Wild Ricochet
0 Sacred Foundry
0 Stomping Ground
0 Temple Garden
0 Clifftop Retreat
0 Rootbound Crag
0 Sunpetal Grove
0 Boros Guildgate
0 Gruul Guildgate
0 Selesnya Guildgate
0 Ancient Amphitheater
0 Karplusan Forest
0 Boros Garrison
0 Selesnya Sanctuary
0 Battlefield Forge
0 Krosan Verge
0 Mistveil Plains
0 Jungle Shrine
0 Command Tower
0 Reflecting Pool
0 Cavern of Souls
0 Kessig Wolf Run
0 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
0 Kher Keep
0 Vitu-Ghazi, the City Tree
0 Strip Mine
0 Yavimaya Hollow
0 Brushland
5 Plains
2 Mountains
1 Forest
Couple of cards I should really make room for;
Salvage Scout, Buried Ruin
I think swapping Orim's Thunder for Sundering Growth is also a good idea.
Let me know what you guys think
Pretty new to the Twin deck but have got most of the parts on the way. Just needed a little help with the manabase and sideboard suggestions.
Current list
2x Spellskite
4x Deceiver Exarch
4x Pestermite
2x Kiki-Jiki Mirror Breaker
Instant/Sorcery -21
4x Dispel
3x Remand
4x Serum Visions
4x Sleight of Hand
4x Boomerang
2x Flameslash
4x Splinter Twin
Land -23
4x Sulfur Falls
4x Steam Vents
2x Desolate Lighthouse
5x Mountain
8x Island
2-3x Bloodmoon
2x Negate
Couple of notes for you guys to consider.
So this is obviously more the all in deck, copied pretty much from these forums. My main question relates around my land as I currently do not own any of the fetch lands. They are currently quite expensive but i will collect them as i can, but im not sure what would be the best land base to use without the fetches. What ratio of islands to mountains?
I do have a Breeding Pool and a Stomping grounds but im not sure they are worth running for the ancient grudges without the fetches.
My sideboard is also pretty loose and am not sure what cards are going to be more redundant with the current list i will have assembled.
2x Nether Spirit
Planeswalkers - 4
4x Liliana of the Veil
Instant - 7
4x Dark Ritual
2x Funeral Charm
1x Entomb
Sorcery - 18
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Innocent Blood
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Smallpox
2x Pox
4x The Rack
Enchantments - 3
3x Shrieking Affliction
Land - 22
4x Mishra's Factory
18x Swamp
3x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Infest
2x Dark Blast
2x Pithing Needle
2x Ratchet Bomb
3x Surgical Extraction
4x Fulminator Mage
2x Faerie Macabre
2x Avalanche Riders
1x Architect of Will
4x Deadshot Minotaur
4x Monstrous Carabid
4x Street Wraith
4x Pale Recluse
2x Jungle Weaver
Non Creature Spells - 14
4x Beast Within
4x Violent Outburst
3x Demonic Dread
3x Living End
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
3x Copperline Gorge
4x Verdant Catacomb
1x Blood Crypt
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
1x Dryad Arbour
1x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Mountain
3x Ingot Chewer
3x Shriekmaw
3x Brindle Boar
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Faerie Macabre
1x Avalanche Riders
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/25209-Todd-vs-BBD-UW-Flash-vs-Naya-Midrange.html
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
3x Centaur Healer
2x Borderland Ranger
2x Loxodon Smiter
4x Restoration Angel
4x Huntmaster of the Fells
3x Thragtusk
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
Planeswalker - 3
3x Garruk, Primal Hunter
Sorcery - 7
4x Farseek
3x Bonfire of the Damned
3x Oblivion Ring
Land - 24
4x Temple Garden
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Rootbound Crag
3x Clifftop Retreat
2x Kessig Wolf Run
4x Forest
2x Mountain
1x Plains
2x Purify the Grave
3x Pillar of Flame
2x Ray of Revelation
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Centaur Healer
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
2x Zealous Conscripts
1x Devils Play
2x Terminus
Cards that I feel perform well in this deck;
Centaur Healer - I think he does his job as a 3 drop really well, good body gain some life. Not the beast vs control but easy to side out.
Garruk, Primal Hunter - This card does some work! So great at applying pressure or drawing you cards.
Thragtusk - Obvious
Oblivion Ring - I find this card doing some real heavy lifting atm. Very useful.
Kessig Wolf Run - Wins games. Very useful for pushing through the last damage or blowing them out with alpha strikes.
Cards im unsure of;
Borderland Ranger - He is nice to mana fix but then usually just chumps, im not sure if i want more elephants (Loxodon Smiter) or Centaur Healers
Clifftop Retreat - I think i want to cut one for another Forest, a thrird wolf run or a cavern.
Sideboard - I think i have pretty good answers to most things, probably want an elephant sideboard too, maybe a cavern?
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=49986 this is a pretty good result for a naya deck.
The last tournament i played I vs 3 jund decks. Beat 2 and lost to 1 but all the matches went to 3 games.
So i like this list more than the standard ramp decks, but im not sure he dosnt get blown out of the water against aggro in game one.
Thoughts on the article?
but if u want to kill small guys isnt tragic just better? Although it needs a morbid trigger to get 2 or more toughness creatures, its instant and can kill creatures with more than 2 toughness with the morbid, also dosnt require red early. I know the exile is the reason its good but when vs things that dont need to be exiled i think i like slip.
I guess it depends on how many red burn spells u run and how early u want to cast them. In my old B/R zombie list pre RTR i only had 4x Dragonskull Summits and 4x Blackcleave Cliffs with 3 Cavern of Souls and i think i had more main deck red spells than i do in my current list and i only notice the mana screw on a few occasions. i think i will do some testing when i have the chance.
4x Gravecrawler
4x Diregraf Ghoul
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Blood Artist
4x Geralfs Messenger
4x Falkenrath Aristocrat
Spells - 14
4x Bump in the Night
2x Tragic Slip
2x Ultimate Price
4x Searing Spear
2x Sign in blood
4x Bloodcrypt
4x Dragonskull Summit
3x Rakdos Guildgate
11x Swamps
3x Underworld Connections
1x Rakdos Charm
3x Dreadbore
1x Sever the Bloodline
2x Cremate
3x Pillar of Flame
2x Liliana of the Veil
The deck is still pretty rough except for the core which I basically consider the creature package. Where it gets rough is the instant/sorcery section and the sideboard
Creature core is all there for obvious reasons and does not need much explanation, its how we aggro ppl and allow for the burn finish.
Instant and soceries;
Bump in the Night - the cheap repeatable burn that helps close the game.
Searing Spear - Acts as removal and extra range
Tragic Slip - Some nice instant removal, can get rid of large threats for cheap. Good against opposing Falkenraths.
Ultimate Price - More removal, a little narrow but will get most threats or blockers out of the way.
Sign in Blood - A little card draw, can act as burn if absolutely required.
Sideboard;
Underworld Connections - Good against control, used when games will go long
Rakdos Charm - Artifact hate, graveyard hate and a little extra range nice option card for many games
Dreadbore - Hating on Jace mainly but can be used against decks where ultimate price is not cutting it
Sever the Bloodline - Exile multiple copies, mainly for tokens, also repeatable
Cremate - More graveyard hate plus card draw
Pillar of Flame - Mainly for the mirror, also gives range.
Liliana of the Veil - Not sure if she fits, seems nice against some decks that have geist etc.
I know there are plenty of non-zombies and cards that require red but playing a guildgate tapped when you need that 3rd turn messenger seems pretty annoying to me. Sure you can play around it by playing it when you dont need it but in those early turns we need full untapped mana until turn 4 (god hand situation).
Also it may help out as well if u need that red for a Falkenrath and you name vampire instead of zombie.
3x Thragtusk
2x Angel of Serenity
Instant - 14
1x Dissapate
2x Syncopate
4x Feeling of Dread
4x Think Twice
3x Sphinx's Revelation
4x Terminus
3x Supreme Verdict
Planeswalkers - 5
3x Jace, Architect of Thought
2x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
3x Detention Sphere
Have not developed the land base or sideboard yet. Any thoughts?