This is a discard-based deck inspired by a b/r vampire control list I like play in Modern. It uses a lot of discard/punishment effects to throw a huge wrench in everyone else's plans, such as Oppression right before everyone starts ramping.
The mass discard protects Olivia from spot removal (save for a lucky top deck), and forces our opponent's to sit and watch as we slowly whittle away their lives away to nothing.
Although Olivia is the general, this is really better described Liliana's deck. The list currently runs all three versions, and will most likely run future versions as well. Lili's discard abilities are very strong, even in group games. Liliana of the Dark Realms gets some very good mileage, filtering out lands and providing lands to power retrace cards.
Both ladies team up for a slow, grindy, torturous game that will make everyone else cry sweet and salty tears.
The deck is pretty light in both creatures and removal. If our discard is working properly, then we'll be able to use Olivia to steal everyone else's meaning that neither is as necessary as before.
Being a "guild deck" means that Olivia has to wait for ten other decks (wedges and shards) to make some claims before she gets a chance at some of the more premiere cards, so although I'd appreciate some suggestions and feedback, keep in mind that I can't afford the top-tier stuff. ^^;
Also notice that the deck is filled with a lot of "hoser" cards that attack common strategies in commander, like ETB effects and reanimation.
Leyline is a good idea, but I'd say it paints a bigger target on itself. Whereas a little jank 1 cmc artifact just sits there and I can leave it to my opponents to debate whether to waste a spell on it or not
IF THE MAN(ONE OF THE PRIME KAALIA RUNNERS) SUGGESTS SIRE OF INSANITY INTO A KAALIA DECK, then I guess I'll consider it D: brb pondering what to take out for the next 3 hours ;_; on a side note, leyline would be good synergy with the sire of insanity... hmmmmmmmm
I'm really considering taking out sunforger x: I've played 5 games recently, 3 of which I have won and I haven't seen sunforger anywhere!
I'm actually not a fan of running Sire just yet because:
a) The reanimation isn't strong enough yet, I feel
b) The only creature I can figure to cut at the moment is Akroma, which just isn't happening due to personal preference/warm fuzzies. It's not the most optimal build, but it's my deck.
Running Sunforger is also a bit of a personal preference at this point, I feel. I could take it out, but I love the reach it gives the deck and I usually do well when I can tutor for it and have a body to use it (even someone small like Magus of the Moat or Grand Abolisher can use it!).
Leyline vs. Tormod's Crypt. It's an interesting debate. One the one hand, if Tormod resolves, someone's graveyard is getting exiled, no questions asked, even if gets hit with removal. And it's recurrable with Sun Titan.
The Leyline does a lot more work, but it's also a lot easier to kill I find since the reanimator decks that play green (i.e. Mimeoplasm and Karador) usually pack all sorts of naturalize effects to deal with things like that. But we can get it back with....Obzedat's Aid?
Imo, the Crypt is a lot more flexible, and being 0 to cast means that it folds more nicely into casting other things in the same turn.
I have yet to use sun titan to bring back cards like reanimate dead and necropotence and stuff. I mean, I've played a handful of games to think that it should've happened by now lol but it hasn't!
Discard might seem groovy early game, but end game, it just feeds Karador and Mimeoplasm. I think adding Relic of the Progenitus was a healthy addition to answer my graveyard issue. With that, I just might add sire of insanity... maybe
I like Tormod's Crypt a little more since it doesn't hurt our reanimation and Sun Titan can recur it....unless you just don't see them. Tutor, maybe?
LOL overextending, imo. my three favorites would be Fire and Ice, Feast and Famine, War and Peace. To be honest, I don't like having to return a creature back to my hand from the graveyard((Light and Shadow) cause they know what's gonna happen next. I prefer instant effects-- however, I still run it in my deck.
A few hours ago, I played a game where I was mana screwed but managed to get necropotence out and not look like a threat! I drew into the lands I needed, along with a swiftfoot and they didn't see what was coming to them. First attack cheated Lord of the Void in, second swing cheated Rune Scarred in and cast Armageddon and my 2 opponents scooped
With my deck, I think that I am lacking the littlest bit of lifegain(Baneslayer) in my deck because I have no other engines that allow me to gain life. Currently, I only run hide // seek and sword of light and shadow and a miren, the moaning well D: I NEED A BANESLAYER
All in all, I need to commit to one target. Normally, I play the I'll-narrow-all-of-us-down to seem fair, then I decide to fight whoever targets kaalia first. I think from now on, I'll just pick one target and swing until they're dead. That way everyone else will leave me and that person alone cause they'll know that fireworks will pop off sooner or later
Vault of the Archangel is a particularly great card for lifegain since it also makes Kaalia an unfavorable block for most people. Using it with a Balefire Dragon or Scourge of Kher Ridges is amazing. I don't have the Scourge yet, but 3drinks would be able to attest to that.
If you really need to, there's also Archangel of Thune which I just pulled from a pack I got with an intro deck.
The key is, is to just know, in the back of your mind, that Kaalia isn't going to attack with three semi-competent players at the table. If she does, great, all bonus gravy. But don't count on it. Instead just find other ways to circumvent the CMCs of your heavy hitters like reanimation or, if that fails, play cards like Enslave or Word of Seizing and take their heavy hitters. Also, reanimation is the single best way for our colour wedge to cheat on CMCs -- so bring a healthy dab of it, preferably ones that target opposing graveyards too (especially since all of your opponents described there play in the dirt).
More or less. These are also strong colors for discard effects, so if you decided to go that route, you could force mass discard to get rid of answers that were being held for Kaalia. The deck would have to be MAJORLY retooled in order for that to work, but it can be done (as evidenced by my Olivia deck which repeatedly makes people cry because it punishes them for wanting to drop their whole hand).
I've been looking for ways to squeak more reanimation into this deck, and so far I'm happy with how the cards are performing.
BUH, 2 of my friends are graveyard abusers(karador, mimeoplasm), while the third is your typical BWG stompy with the dragon as his commander
I've been having a lot of trouble against the three of them cause they know the kind of threat kaalia can bring to the table so she gets hated the instant I pull her out lol
I'm trying to figure out what to use to accommodate to this style
That's pretty much been my problem, and the problem of ANYONE who decides to play Kaalia at a table where people have seen her in action. My usual methods of dodging removal have usually been to ramp out so fast they can't deal with her yet (and hope they don't have the swords or the path in their opening hand), or wait a few extra turns to make sure you can protect her with a sword or some boots. Part of why Sword of War and Peace is in here is because the protections stop some of the most powerful exile effects, as well as Chaos Warp and Oblation.
It's still a work in progress, but that's what our brain trust is here for.
Btw, so for I AM liking sword of WaP. I also recently obtained the Modern Master's versions of LaS + FaI, so I updated those in my deck. Kaalia likes having the shiny new swords that all match.
Unfortunately, no. ^^; My group's been pretty busy this past couple of weekends, as have I with OT at work. As far my LGS goes, I need to start playing the RTR guilds for Commandercast's set review later on to get a final feel for a lot of those cards, so Kaalia will probably only get played once my group re-convenes next week. Sorry!
To be fair, I am excited to use it on something like a Rune-scarred Demon. I hear tutouring for two different cards for just 2 was a good play lmao.
Really though, I'm just a dick and want to copy Rakdos the Defiler's on-damage trigger a couple times. You know, because one instance of Annihilate X isn't enough to force a concession, I wanna do it twice.
Nah, I think it's time to cut Rune-scarred demon. There are just too many good cards to pick from with that ability.
yeah! I saw that resonator and I was like uhhh... that works with Kaalia, right??
It most assuredly does.
In a one-on-one list like 3drink's, it is "win more" since you might be over extending into a wrath, but I like it in a multiplayer list, particularly when you need to kill about three other people. Not only that, but a lot of our list includes creatures with ETB effects, so we would be able to speed up the value of dropping our big guys.
I'm still worried about how fast we'll run out of creatures, but so many of them have ETB effects that even top decking one means that we can just copy the ETB effect if we need/want to.
Off the top of my head, that Resonator is pretty catchy. I'll have to monitor how often I have two or more targets in my hand. So far, it's surprisingly often, and I DO find myself trying desperately to get them both into play AND do other stuff.
If I can figure out what to cut, I'll definitely give Resonator a good testing.
No love for Propaganda or Ghostly Prison? They seem like they should be auto includes in a defense-centric deck like this one.
Also, I'm sure there's a perfectly good reason that I'm missing, but what's the point of Spellbook in this deck? If it's just to let you keep a big hand of cards I'd replace it with Library of Leng just for the extra bit of protection it provides.
The point of Spellbook over something like Library or Venser's Journal was that it's a free-cast card. I wanted to conserve as much mana for counterspells or doing other things as possible, so a hand holder for 0 is a good thing to have. It's also less of a target because it doesn't do anything I've found, unlike journal which will get you noticed a lot faster.
That's also the same reason I cut out pillow-fort cards. They tend to draw more attention for me than they repel. It's easier to have a subtle board presence than a couple of walls that say "please don't hit me" with a group of guys who want to disobey the signs.
The mass discard protects Olivia from spot removal (save for a lucky top deck), and forces our opponent's to sit and watch as we slowly whittle away their lives away to nothing.
Although Olivia is the general, this is really better described Liliana's deck. The list currently runs all three versions, and will most likely run future versions as well. Lili's discard abilities are very strong, even in group games. Liliana of the Dark Realms gets some very good mileage, filtering out lands and providing lands to power retrace cards.
Both ladies team up for a slow, grindy, torturous game that will make everyone else cry sweet and salty tears.
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Quietus Spike
1 Rakdos Keyrune
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Seer's Sundial
1 Skullcage
1 Staff of Nin
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Torpor Orb
1 Wheel of Torture
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Anger
1 Blazing Specter
1 Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
1 Fiend of the Shadows
1 Horobi, Death's Wail
1 Lavaborn Muse
1 Liliana's Reaver
1 Liliana's Specter
1 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
1 Markov Blademaster
1 Nirkana Revenant
1 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1 Order of Yawgmoth
1 Rakdos Augermage
1 Sangromancer
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Wrecking Ogre
1 Blood Moon
1 Exquisite Blood
1 Furnace of Rath
1 Manabarbs
1 Oppression
1 Pain Magnification
1 Painful Quandary
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Annihilating Fire
1 Murder
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Terminate
1 Wrecking Ball
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Graven Cairns (the future sight art, naturally)
1 Kher Keep
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
14 Mountain
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Rakdos Guildgate
1 Ris Maadi, Dungeon Palace
1 Shivan Gorge
12 Swamp
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Liliana of the Dark Realms
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Barter in Blood
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Increasing Ambition
1 Rakdos's Return
1 Raven's Crime
1 Ruination
1 Skull Rend
1 Syphon Life
1 Syphon Mind
1 Undercity Plague
The deck is pretty light in both creatures and removal. If our discard is working properly, then we'll be able to use Olivia to steal everyone else's meaning that neither is as necessary as before.
Being a "guild deck" means that Olivia has to wait for ten other decks (wedges and shards) to make some claims before she gets a chance at some of the more premiere cards, so although I'd appreciate some suggestions and feedback, keep in mind that I can't afford the top-tier stuff. ^^;
Also notice that the deck is filled with a lot of "hoser" cards that attack common strategies in commander, like ETB effects and reanimation.
Yes, having something like Wear // Tear helps a lot against stuff like this. Chaos Warp works in a pinch since you'll have the red anyway.
I'm actually not a fan of running Sire just yet because:
a) The reanimation isn't strong enough yet, I feel
b) The only creature I can figure to cut at the moment is Akroma, which just isn't happening due to personal preference/warm fuzzies. It's not the most optimal build, but it's my deck.
Running Sunforger is also a bit of a personal preference at this point, I feel. I could take it out, but I love the reach it gives the deck and I usually do well when I can tutor for it and have a body to use it (even someone small like Magus of the Moat or Grand Abolisher can use it!).
Leyline vs. Tormod's Crypt. It's an interesting debate. One the one hand, if Tormod resolves, someone's graveyard is getting exiled, no questions asked, even if gets hit with removal. And it's recurrable with Sun Titan.
The Leyline does a lot more work, but it's also a lot easier to kill I find since the reanimator decks that play green (i.e. Mimeoplasm and Karador) usually pack all sorts of naturalize effects to deal with things like that. But we can get it back with....Obzedat's Aid?
Imo, the Crypt is a lot more flexible, and being 0 to cast means that it folds more nicely into casting other things in the same turn.
I like Tormod's Crypt a little more since it doesn't hurt our reanimation and Sun Titan can recur it....unless you just don't see them. Tutor, maybe?
Vault of the Archangel is a particularly great card for lifegain since it also makes Kaalia an unfavorable block for most people. Using it with a Balefire Dragon or Scourge of Kher Ridges is amazing. I don't have the Scourge yet, but 3drinks would be able to attest to that.
If you really need to, there's also Archangel of Thune which I just pulled from a pack I got with an intro deck.
More or less. These are also strong colors for discard effects, so if you decided to go that route, you could force mass discard to get rid of answers that were being held for Kaalia. The deck would have to be MAJORLY retooled in order for that to work, but it can be done (as evidenced by my Olivia deck which repeatedly makes people cry because it punishes them for wanting to drop their whole hand).
I've been looking for ways to squeak more reanimation into this deck, and so far I'm happy with how the cards are performing.
That's pretty much been my problem, and the problem of ANYONE who decides to play Kaalia at a table where people have seen her in action. My usual methods of dodging removal have usually been to ramp out so fast they can't deal with her yet (and hope they don't have the swords or the path in their opening hand), or wait a few extra turns to make sure you can protect her with a sword or some boots. Part of why Sword of War and Peace is in here is because the protections stop some of the most powerful exile effects, as well as Chaos Warp and Oblation.
It's still a work in progress, but that's what our brain trust is here for.
Btw, so for I AM liking sword of WaP. I also recently obtained the Modern Master's versions of LaS + FaI, so I updated those in my deck. Kaalia likes having the shiny new swords that all match.
hmmm...What would five swords Kaalia look like?
Unfortunately, no. ^^; My group's been pretty busy this past couple of weekends, as have I with OT at work. As far my LGS goes, I need to start playing the RTR guilds for Commandercast's set review later on to get a final feel for a lot of those cards, so Kaalia will probably only get played once my group re-convenes next week. Sorry!
Nah, I think it's time to cut Rune-scarred demon. There are just too many good cards to pick from with that ability.
It most assuredly does.
In a one-on-one list like 3drink's, it is "win more" since you might be over extending into a wrath, but I like it in a multiplayer list, particularly when you need to kill about three other people. Not only that, but a lot of our list includes creatures with ETB effects, so we would be able to speed up the value of dropping our big guys.
I'm still worried about how fast we'll run out of creatures, but so many of them have ETB effects that even top decking one means that we can just copy the ETB effect if we need/want to.
We need to come up with some test cuts, people!
If I can figure out what to cut, I'll definitely give Resonator a good testing.
. . . . . . *takes off imaginary glasses*
Welp...I'm officially jelly of whoever gets them.
Please and thank you.
The point of Spellbook over something like Library or Venser's Journal was that it's a free-cast card. I wanted to conserve as much mana for counterspells or doing other things as possible, so a hand holder for 0 is a good thing to have. It's also less of a target because it doesn't do anything I've found, unlike journal which will get you noticed a lot faster.
That's also the same reason I cut out pillow-fort cards. They tend to draw more attention for me than they repel. It's easier to have a subtle board presence than a couple of walls that say "please don't hit me" with a group of guys who want to disobey the signs.
Yes, I'd dare say it's worth running in any creature-heavy deck that also runs Sun Titan.