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  • posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    @great Nate - I may be very late to the party but with AV being unbanned does it now get find a place in the deck?
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange


    Good days all, in the aftermath of SCG Philly I learned a few lessons and have posted my final deck list up top. As GeistofStDoom I like the more black and when I ran Lingering Souls from the board it was really good. Thundermaw Helkite was not as good as I wanted it to be for 5CC I think would have rather hand a Baneslayer Angel honestly (jk). Keranos was a true winner and Deflecting Palm won me 3 games by itself! I also learned Discard can really hurt a lot. Also this was the biggest modern IQ so far.

    0-2 Abzan - First off this was a fully foiled deck with future sight foil goyf's. Before I dropped this guy was 5-0 and I think he went on to do well. First match was pretty even PtE a few goyf's, burn out a few oozes but I then ran out of gas. 3 consecutive land draws with him landing a Siege Rhino well you know how that goes. Game 2 I sided in souls pulled out 1 Thundermaw, 1 Geist, 1 random card he landed procedes to duress, thoughtsieze, inquistion me the first 3 turns then lands double grafts digger. He pulled all my gas, I started to land things but nothing of real value and fell flat on my face.

    2-1 G/W/B Melira combo first game drew all lands (at this point a shuffle would be good) I did not see a lot of his deck but goyfs and knight. Brought in Deflecting Palm kept a 1 lands hand and two palms thinking I have to get a land. Famous last words, I proceeded to draw non lands for 4 turns he cracked many fetches to bring himself down to 15. I finally draw a white source (sitting on Scared Foundry now I play Godless Shrine) played untapped for puts me at 2. Next turn he swings exhalted trigger puts the Knight of the Reliquary 7, I palm it back. He reads the card and discovers the Spellskite he has out is useless, he shrugs and goes ok. I draw a card and make a frown face tell him to go. He draws plays a land cracks a fetch losses a life then swings in with 4 creatures, I palm it back at him and I win the game. I admit I should not have won that game. Next game I proceed to get gas and with with a well played linger souls, supreme verdict, combo to stop him the turn before he went off.

    2-0 Aristocrats - Was a ver favorable match up for me.

    1-2 Merfolk - Very close match played almost to time. Who knew post board that Crumble to Dust aimed at a Manavault was a real thing. My recurssion was a reall winner but in the end the shear amount of lords they have overwhelmed me and pro- red master of waves hurts our decks

    1-2 Merfolk - Again great opp. Fired off 6 PtE in the first game won. Post board island walk is very hard for us even if we dont play our islands. As my oppt said it was very close and we both played strong my lack of drawing a blue source to activate my Colonade that IS NOT AN ISLAND or drawing Tasigur was not good.

    SO I learned Tasigur needs to be a two of for my black splash and I think a Kcommand I would like to explore!

    I had a great time and the deck worked well I think I amight move to a more @ GeistofStDoom list I think it might be better for me to play test with!
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    Quote from GeistofStDoom »


    For your sideboard: dispel dispel are a must. Maybe cut the mana leaks for them? Dispel helps vs coco decks, control, and burn.
    A problem I've been having with the black splash is that there are sooo many more cards we can run and it cuts into the sideboard space. Lingering Souls must be in the side board since it is one of the best cards in modern against a lot of decks. Valorous stance is a card that while it performs great, competes with crackling doom. They both perform (essentially) the same function. If I recall GreatNate shied away from the black splash entirely when he started running Valorous Stance main because it's easier on the mana base and allows for cryptic command to be played. I don't think you need the stances in the side since you have 2 dooms mainboard.

    I'd almost recommend that you either add a few more reasons to run black or just cut the dooms (blasphemy from me, I know) and run the stances mainboard and keep one black shock for lingering souls out of the side. Reasons to run more black: Tasigur, KCommand, Slaughter Games. Reasons to trim black: simpler mana base, cryptic command. I'm currently on the run more B train. GreatNate is on the cryptic command train. I think both are correct and for entirely different reasons.


    @GeistofStDoom
    I think you and GreatNate are in my head Smile I was just starting to think the same thing about the splash of black. I like the way the deck functions right now so working more black in is hard. I am using my Electrolyze to generate temp advantage, they lose a create and/or life and I get a card. That feels like the natural place to put in a Kolaghan's Command if I decided to run more black. Tasigur could easily come in the place of my finisher or even from the board for more grindy matches. The argument for the crypic is also good, simpler manabase and the command if I have it does what I want to do with the tap out option allowing me to get maximum value from Geist and the rest of the team, it gets a me card and it counters it is a good work horse but it is expensive for the CC with the 3U. I think I have a big choice to make in the next two days

    Thanks everyone for all the great advice and keeping things helpfut. This is one of the most helpful forums I have ever posted to... BIG THANK YOU TO GEIST for reminding me about dispel!!!

    Greatnate and GeistofStDoom what are your thoughts onEiganjo Castle.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    @whocansay
    Thanks, I am looking to alter the mana base a little to include a watery grave and maybe Eiganjo Castle. Brimaz is a pet card of mine and will be the first to go from my SB he had good value when I ran young pyro allowing me to go around with opps with a small token army... I think lingering souls might be a better call
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    Good Morning All...
    After extensive reading (thanks GreatNate for the write-ups) limited playtesting, and just gut instinct I am posting my almost final list for SCG Philly



    After reading some of the comments above I am thiking of revamping my SB to be

    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    Quote from GeistofStDoom »
    Quote from whatehpho »
    Hi, I recently got into 3rd at the st louis IQ
    http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=94171

    Went 6-0 in swiss beating zoo 3x, infect, zoo, and uw titan before double drawing into top8, beating doran in the quarter finals, and losing to grixis twin in the semis.

    Changes would be that tect edges should be ghost quarters(Only card in deck that isn't foil :<), Sideboard should prob be -1 Rest in peace +1 Engineered explosives. Could consider cutting out the angered to gods for a staticaster.

    Is grixis twin a hard match up? I've been having meh results against it.


    How was Aven Mindcensor in the matchup? Can you give examples where it shined and others (if they existed) where it was just a 2/1 flyer that died to bolt/decay? It does turn their removal on being in the mainboard, but I want to hear how it worked for you.


    Agreed I am planning my deck for SCG philly and the Aven is one of the big questions I have!! Also given the placement so high of this deck (and given that a lot of players plan for the decks that did well last week) what changes would you make to the deck. (i.e. if people are preping for last weeks list how do we change it for this week to take advantage of it)
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    @GreatNateMTG and @GeistofStDoom
    Could you post a link to GreatNates site I would love to get more insight into the deck. I have been playing with if for two years but not constant, so getting some fresh idea's would be great. In fact a friend of mine suggested another more fun path to victory that I started to give a little more serious consideration to. In an effort to go more aggro he suggested a path to victory using Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker at the top of the curve and spamming Restoration Angel at first I laughed but the more I looked at it the more it "almost" seems possible for an instant Kill... thoughts?

    @GeistofStDoom Preach on my brother, you and I are on the same page. I have found the longer I play magic that the key to playing any deck to the best of its and my ablities is to keep in mind what kind of deck it is. Aggro/Tempo, control, Aggro, Ramp all of them require a different mindset and it is best to keep the deck on track when tweeking it. Avoid the lure to spread it to thin and making it do everything, the truth of the matter is no deck is perfect and there is always a hole in your deck the hope is that in the pairings you dont run into that deck very often. I believe crafting a deck that fits your play style while maintaining its strengths is key to winning matches and tournaments! I continue to run more towards an aggro build trying to end the game quicker with elements of control to delay or put off my opps at key times.

    WOW I am interested in the Vapor Snag idea, I think it could be good in a more control heavy build out of the SB!
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    Quote from whocansay »
    Yesterday's matches:
    2-0 Burn (not a very experienced player)
    0-2 Tarmo-Twin (horrible misplay on my end, I knew Blood Moon was coming yet I still tapped out with a Remand on hand - never again)
    1-0 UW Titan (went to time. I think we are vastly favored in this matchup, just grind it out, path the Titans and Keranos wins, or go full tempo and burn them to 0. Options!)
    0-2 Burn (decent player, his timing was on point, Skullcrack was crucial and I was screwed on mana in the last game)

    Another 2-2 with Geist as always. The old adage still rings true for me - when Geist is good, he's great, but when he's bad, he's backbreakingly horrible and we go to topdeck mode which is the single worst place in the world for us. Maybe I'm just not good at playing the midrange game but I find it really hard to feel out the proper tempo for this deck. Of course, tempo is a fluid thing in midrange and it changes constantly but I can't shake the idea that this deck isn't 100% sure on what it wants to do. We have a lot of answers but not much of a solid gameplan when compared to other midrange decks like Abzan or Jund.

    The addition of black makes for some awesome card options in Tasigur and Lingering Souls (i'm still not convinced Crackling Doom is worth the awkward mana cost over PTE just to add 2dmg when removing a problematic creature), but I feel it also further dilutes the deck's goal and purpose. It used to be either UWR Geist skewed towards control (Cryptics, hard counters) or UWR Geist skewed towards tempo (Tmaw, 4 Remand). Now we're jamming great cards in but can't decide on what counterspell suite to run as the slots are so limited. Remand is great in the early turns if you're lucky enough to draw it but it's completely dead against a lot of decks. "At least it cycles" doesn't make me feel very much in control of the board when that's the only counterspell I'm running. Mana Leak was useless in all my games yesterday, every single time I found myself wishing I'd had a Dispel in hand instead - up to the point where I'm considering running a 2 Dispel / 2 Spell Snare suite. They might be dead draws later on but they stop so many problematic cards I'm willing to take a shot at it.

    Also not very convinced by Serum Visions just yet - I ran a Serum Visions / Anticipate split and never really wanted to tap out for either, but at least Anticipate lets me do it whenever. The amount of times I've been stuck with Colonnade and SV in hand with a bunch of 2- and 3-drops... There's just no great time to play it unless you're in a good spot already anyway. It's a great card but it messes with our tempo in my opinion.

    Anyway, rant over, in conclusion I still really enjoy playing this deck and love the amount of interactivity it offers - landing a Geist still makes a lot of players nervous and that's great to see. It rewards solid thinking which I think is what Magic should be all about. On the other hand I'm not surprised that we dropped to Developing Competitive and I don't see us moving back up to Tier 2 any time soon. The deck (/Geist itself?) is too unreliable and too scatterbrained with all of its current iterations, and the lack of a strong counterspell package isn't helping the UWRb version at all, in my opinion.


    @whocansay
    I understand where you are coming from which is why I am hesitant to move more into the black. Tasigur, the Golden Fang is an amazing card and I am bringing one in my binder to Philly so it can compete with the "top of curve spot" but I think my lack of experience with it holds me back. I believe I need to test more with it before I move in that direction. Crackling Doomis the entire reason I splach black, he gets ride of Eldrazi especially Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or cards with protection. That is my entire reason for running it, this may not be such a big thing now but it also comes into play with Amulet Bloom and bogles.

    Remember we have two versions of this deck a control and a midrange. I think it is a mistake to try and merge the two because you will more likely get the worst of both of them and nothing good. My goal is to try to make the deck faster and/or dictate tempo. To do this I am looking for value cards and Remand fits that bill. It is cheap, grabs you are card and early game stalls the opp. If I was looking for a hard counter I would go with Spell Snare as you suggested but I feel Mana Leak is to slow... PTE is one that purplexes me because it gives them a land i feel the trade off is but providing them with a land at times really hurts. That is my reason for looking at Aven Mindcensor I really would like to limit their search. I do see potential for other cards that stop searching libraries!
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    @GeistofStDoom

    Thank you for the constructive analyis on your recommendation I will give the Lingering Souls a try in the board. Ahh I see what sulfur falls is for to prevent choke I never put it in because I prefer to search for the lands. I like that idea but I have had problems in the past with lands I cannot serach for and getting my mana base right, I find since we both run more to end the game faster that my mana base needs to be spot on. That leads me to Kolaghan's Command the main reason I am not running it is I dont own it Wink I am not against picking it up but I am trying to have a mana base by turn 3 that can allow me to Remand and Path in the same turn, Electorlyze to take care of something small and grab a card or Helix and bolt in the same turn or cast giest. I know that sounds like a lot... Do you have any mana base problems with having to run a little more black? Do you ever find command to be a dead card because of the base? BTW the 2 life from Crackling Doom has always been relevant for me too.

    I like to try to finish a game a little faster and not win the war of attrition. I am a control player at heart (come on reprint counterspell WOTC)and the allure of a more control deck calls to me but I enjoy this deck because it is different

    @Paghus
    logic knot IS a good card but it take set up and is a bit conditional at worst early game it does nothing and late game they have more mana then us. OTH it can be a spell spike early game. However if you are looking for the early game hard counter I like Spell Snare It gets most everything we want to worry about in the first few rounds.

    Re: Shadow of Doubt I like it as a SB card. Maindeck it feels like it could potentially be unused in some match-ups, in the tron match-ups it would be a killer but against somthing like Merfolk not so much. Additionally MD it starts to make the deck more toolbox like and one of the things I like about my build is that it is very consistent with the draws. It really does not stop the card draw off cryptic... it does hit fetches pretty strongly!
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    @GeistofStDoom

    You hit on a very good point. I think that card selection has to take in account what the decks/players goal is. If we are going for more control the list in the link is great but like you I also run more of a burn list where the Remand is filling the roll to delay my oppt and draw a card vs. hard counter. I have found that I am using Remand almost like a bounce card like Unsummon. While that sounds odd hear me out, I am "bouncing" a spell as it is being cast to delay the usage of it. This creates an unplanned opening hopefully for me to get something good in. I do agree it should be tested but we have to be careful that if we go to far with the hard counters we venture into the more Control version of this deck...
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    @GeistofStDoom & @whocansay
    RE: Mana Split I would agree with Giest because blue is not the primary color of my deck, white is what I rely on getting and what I need to ensure I get quicker (refer below). So for me the Arid Mesa, Flooded Strand are the more important fetches for me. With that being said you will also find that the majority of my mana base is making blue and with the two lands above I can fetch any dual land in the deck.


    (sideboard still in transition)


    RE: Blood Baron of Vizkopa - I did some play testing this weekend with him in the maindeck and also coming in from the SB. I can say I have mixed feelings because the life gain and protections where great and he is a decent sized body for 5CC. He did bring me back several times from under 5 life several times and was great against Hatebears, the mirror, and a few other non tier 1 decks. BUT I think the top of the mana curve is served better with Thundermaw Helkite the 5 instant swing was much more devestating when I could play it. I do feel he is a good replace ment for the big dragon in coming in from the board. It really helps in more grindy matches. I will also caveat the above as many of the decks I tested against where not tier 1 or tier 1.5.

    @GreatNateMTG (and others)
    I noticed the deck swung back towards a more control version with Cryptic Command, Mana Leak and Remand. It also tops out the curve with Restoration Angel and not Thundermaw Helkite like we have seen in recent showings:
    St. Louis Premier IQ

    Is this more control a meta call or a shift? The Serum Vision is not something I have ever tried is seems like it would be more at home in the control build and less so in the midrage build?
    The week before an event is always so stressful fine tuning my deck!
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    @whocansay
    I also run a maindeck mountain and in total run 4 basics main, I find it really helpful. They have kept me alive when a shock land would kill me and generally fix some mana problems when a blood moon hits. With 25 lands I don't often have the problem of being mana flooded because really the shock lands are less lands and act more like shuffle effects. They also do the job of slightly thinning out the deck (but mathmatically they don't) I would say the only thing i dislike is drawing celestial colonnade as my land drop on turn 3. That is the problem I have most with the deck. I also have a tendency once I hit 4 lands not to pop my fetches but hold on to them.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Primer] Affinity
    Thank you guys for the feedback. I currently have the version with ensoul artifact built but would like to get feedback on other list that do well. Does anyone have a good list that does not run Hangarback Walker?
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    @GeistofStDoom

    Thanks for the feedback it has given me great new possibilities and things to think about... I have not had the chance to play modern much in the last year very often (planning a wedding and buying a house can do that to you) AND my next tournament will be SCG Philly. Since I am a ways away from Philly the "local" meta game guess, well, yours is as good as mine. Aven Mindcensor seems to be a very good tempo card for us, combined with Path To Exile this is a pretty sweet soft lock. I also like that if flashes in because it can drastically upset the game plan of your opps

    I think this weekend I am going to test the blood baron, I will let you know what I come up with...
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Primer] Affinity
    I have had the deck for a long time but have not touched it in over a year... I see hangarback in many of the list, is this somthing that is going to be a standard card in most builds?
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
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