MTG Salvation

This is a very all-or-nothing card. You dump lots of mana into it and hope it doesn't eat removal. If you manage to swing with it, you win. With Bolt and Blaze leaving the format 3 toughness is the new 4 toughness, so red decks will have a harder time burning it.

It would have been better with lower P/T when transformed, but fewer counters required for transformation. For those who are saying this is good in a blue deck with counterspells, 1) are you really going to be able to have 5 counterspells/instants for each turn you want to level it up, and 2) Azure Mage is also a mana dump, yet doesn't see any play.

Overall, while it isn't a completely terrible topdeck due to its leveling ability, I'm not exactly thrilled to drop it on T2 either.

A bear is a 2/2 creature for 2. Nothing else.
A 2/2 for 3 is a hate ogre. A 2/1 for 2 is a hate piker.

BTW, if you rely too much on 2CMC spells, you get owned by Spell Snare.

There have been plenty of suggestions as to how to do it. Here are my thoughts on some of them:
Flip cards: Leaves very little space for art. If both faces have a different color it might be troublesome.
Levelers: Affected by proliferate, Clockspinning. Solvable by allowing only 1 counter on the card at a time.
Sorcery w/ Token: Can be countered by Spell Pierce, reused by Call to Mind, Vapor Snag leaves you down 1 card, etc.

I don't like the solution that Wizards chose (having double-faced cards) for 2 reasons:
1) Having a different card back makes me feel as though I'm playing with gold-bordered cards.
2) Taking out the card from the sleeve is annoying in a "T1 Crack fetch, shuffle, Ponder, shuffle" way. All those little actions like shuffling or removing the card from the sleeve add up.

Using the checklist card is probably the only way I will play with double-faced cards. Psyching opponents by putting a Garruk Relentless in my deck box also works.

I would have preferred the sorcery+token method best. My idea would have been to print a textless full-art flip card and flood the market with the tokens. New players can replace the full-art card with the token. Experienced players will be content just playing the full-art card.

Doesn't work, if a 11/1 Virulent Sliver attacks and is unblocked, the victim gets only 1 poison counter.

Secondly, this is an all-in deck. You either do 10 poison at once or lose. What good is doing 5 poison when you have to draw another Groundswell (fat chance) or Shoal (in that case, the first 5 poison is redundant) to win? If you want to play Groundswell and the like you have to cut the Shoal+Progenitus/King combo.

Quote from Cakins

Tell that to the people (7 pages of people) playing Melira combo. Most of those cards get rid of almost every card in the format, but you don't simply lose to them. This is the kind of troll that I am getting sick of listening to. If you are winning turn 2 OTP, then how many of those cards can they cast at max? One. One is your answer. It seems like cards like Pact of Negation, Disrupting Shoal, cards like Vines of the Vastwood and Apostle's Blessing, and your OWN disruption stop your answers. Enough trolling, more constructive critisizm.

Unlike Melira, this is an all-in deck. If you don't win on the turn you try to go off, it's impossible to recover.
Suppose you have cast Blazing Shoal on something and in response your opponent Bolts it. You've just been 3-for-1ed, and unless you god draw, you won't be able to get another Shoal+Progenitus pair in time.

I haven't seen a Mono-Black Control deck in a long time (recently there was one at China Nationals, brave guy). That's the only place where Arena would be seen due to its 1BB cost. Control decks are more often blue and they have better options, like Jace.

Cost doesn't always reflect power, yes, but there is a ridiculous price gap between the two cards. Bob is created after somebody and appeared only in Ravnica, while Arena is a sure-get if you buy the PvC duel deck. If you don't count all the collectibility issues I still think Bob would be more powerful, and worth more, than Arena.

Isn't Necrotic Ooze + Kiki-Jiki + Mogg Fanatic/Bile Urchin/Death Cultist an insta-kill?

I played against Wall of Roots from some other deck...god DAMN that card kills aggro. Blocks almost anything, doesn't need to tap for mana, doesn't die to most toughness-based removal (except Dismember or Lightning Axe, but who plays those?).

Grand Abolisher can be tech on the turn you go off, as well as anti-blue.

If you're going purely the token-acceleration route (i.e. spam Awakening Zones, Elspeths, Stonybrook Schoolmasters) Eldrazi Monument may be worth a look, it saves you from board wipes. With enough ramp, hopefully you'll get it online before the wipe. Hero of Bladehold can repopulate your field. Fresh Meat blanks removal and chump blocks and has good synergy with Eldrazi Spawn.

Bob:
+Costs less
+Beats for 2
+Less restrictive color cost
+Doesn't lose life if you draw a land
+Doesn't trigger Underworld Dreams (lol)
-Dies to removal
-Makes it unfeasible to play expensive spells
-Lets your opponent know what you're getting

When one is costs a double-digit sum and the other barely scrapes $5 (even before the announcement), it's pretty obvious which is better (and neither was banned, so no "Strip Mine vs. Wasteland" arguments).

Bob belongs in aggro since it has a low curve, uses his body to swing, and whatever you show your opponent is going to kill him anyway. Arena doesn't belong in control, MBC has been dead since Necro got banned. Control is blue splash some other color, not black, so it has Jace to work with. Plus, Jace is 1 turn faster than Arena.

Magus of the Candelabra?
Garruk Wildspeaker?
Primeval Titan?

The last two double as wincons.

Sakura-Tribe Elder fetches only basics but he can chump block.

The original Owling Mine.dec (c. 2006) used Boomerang and Eye of Nowhere to bounce lands (so even if your opponent's hand is full, he can't play anything) and Gigadrowse and Exhaustion to tap the opponent out. The wincons were Ebony Owl Netsuke and Sudden Impact.

The deck was pure blue with a red splash solely for Sudden Impact (and SB Electrolyze, Pyroclasm). It also used Kami of the Crescent Moon, which people here seem to have forgotten about. It's the only other 2-mana Howling Mine effect, other than Mine itself. Jace, Bell, Sculpting Steel and Font all cost more than 2.

The new toys that Modern offers are Scalding Tarn, Cryptic Command, Time Warp and Runeflare Trap. Tarn fetches Steam Vents. Cryptic serves as extra counterspell + bounce (Remand being counters 1-4), Time Warp is nuts with Mines. Runeflare Trap replaces Impact, though you will need multiple Mine effects to activate it at reduced cost, or Vision Skeins/Cerebral Vortex. Pyromancer Ascension may make the cut as bouncing 2 lands per turn is almost an insta-win, but if you have 4 Mines and 3 Kamis you're diluting your instant/sorcery count.

This deck has trumps over control decks but loses to aggro. It beats control by tapping them out and bouncing their lands so that they can't play their finishers. It has a rough time against aggro because it does nothing at all on the first turn while the aggro player can drop a 2-power beater, which will take away quite some life before the Owling player stabilizes (if he does).

If you want to detract from the 2006 version, you can try a Pyromancer Ascension build with Vision Skeins and Cerebral Vortex, or a Windfall-effect deck with Jace's Archivist and Wheel of Fate.

BTW, as you can tell from my username, I'm a fan of this deck.

I was looking around at possibly making combo elves work, once I read the bannings. After the hubbub of Jace and SFM and the other huge bannings, I saw that Glimpse had been banned. Dangit!


But then Gavin Verhey posted a list this morning that was mimicking a list I had been trying to come up with.

Naturally, I realize there is an Elves thread here, but the thread is for discussing pure beatdown elves - and frankly, it seems rather dead. This thread is for discussing combo elves, and what we can do to make it a viable archetype.




The basic idea of the main combo, is that cloudstone curio vaguely replaces Glimpse of Nature. The deck, in a land with no mental misstep and no completely dominant control decks off the surface, manages to play the beatdown role relatively well. However, it can combo off with Cloudstone Curio in play, which, with Heritage Druid and Nettle Sentinel and any one mana elf (you have plenty) in play, you can produce a huge amount of mana and completely draw your deck by consistenly replaying and bouncing Elvish Visionary.

Now, what can we do with a ton of mana?

How about hardcasting Emrakul, the Aeons Torn? It runs similarly to the legacy version of the deck, without some of the more broken cards (Cradle, Glimpse, etc)


Here's a sample list from Verhey



The basic idea, obviously, is either playing beatdown against a control deck or combo deck that can't outcombo you, or just comboing off on your 4th or 5th turn to draw your deck and cast emrakul. Or discard emrakul, and draw your deck again after a boardwipe.

Some basic ideas, Verhey was throwing idea the idea of splashing white with some fetch/shocklands to play Ranger of Eos

Another gimmicky idea that might be worth trying is a red splash for a single Goblin Bushwacker? Play your deck, kick a bushwacker, swing for a billion.

EDIT: This is izzetmage speaking. I have been made the new OP of this thread. Everything above was posted by someone else. I have not edited anything yet, but when I have a few good, tested decklists from MTGO and GP Portland, I will analyze them and update this post with a primer.
You can view my current Elves primer here, or click the link in my sig.

Master of Etherium isn't a good post-board-wipe plan since its size depends on the number of artifacts you have, and since a board wipe will take out a few artifact creatures, it'll just be a dumb 4/4 beater. That doesn't scream "recover from board wipe" when your opponent can drop a Titan in 1-2 turns. Having an existing (Bl)inkmoth Nexus pick up a Cranial Plating seems better since it'll be able to whack right away.

Master of Etherium is good because it's a lord that has huge P/T, so it avoids getting Shocked to death, and it makes attacking unfeasible for your opponent.

Do note that Wrath is a T4 play and the deck is capable of dropping a lot of creatures and dealing a lot of damage before that. Firespout, on the other hand, is T3 but I haven't seen any deck using it. Kill my own Wild Nacatl? I think not. If the meta shifts towards control then this deck can just pack more Spell Pierces or Contested War Zone (le gasp!).

Mox Opal's strength lies in making T2 plays into T1 plays and T3s into T2s. If you have Citadel + Skirge + Opal on T1 you can Thoughcast, yes, but how about Citadel + Memnite + Opal + Steel Overseer instead? Or getting out a T2 Master of Etherium? Dropping lords quickly is advantageous to such an aggressive deck.

Agreed. Losing the artifact lands slows the deck down in 3 ways:
1) Basic lands don't count towards Thoughtcast & Mox Opal
2) Cranial Plating and Master of Etherium pump for less
3) You can't sac basic lands to Shrapnel Blast, Arcbound Ravager, etc to finish the game.

Unfortunately, Mox Opal and Vedalken Certarch make it a necessity to vomit your hand on the table quickly.

If you're looking for a less aggressive version, Vedalken Engineer and Etherium Sculptor will hit the spot. The aggressive version has no space for these because Engineer doesn't count towards metalcraft and Sculptor doesn't affect Memnites and Ornithopters.

Phyrexian Revoker seems strictly a SB option, and I don't think a Pithing Needle which costs more and dies to Doom Blade is worth using over, you know, Pithing Needle.

p.s. Anyone interested in making Lux Cannon.dec? Modern has Voltaic Key, Surge Node, Energy Chamber, Coretapper, Power Conduit.

Quote from Drekavac

For the love of all that is sacred, please stop playing Tempered Steel in this deck. On that same note, jam that playset of AEther Vials into it already! It's the strongest card we have access to!

TS may be able to work in all-in strategies (i.e. dump your whole hand & beat). You might know that in Standard, a T2 Porcelain Legionnaire into T3 Tempered Steel puts your opponent on a 4-turn clock.

I agree with AEther Vial, but only if you play Arcbound Ravager or some other sacrifice outlet with it to make sure it doesn't go dead. Ravager is also awesome for eating multiple Mox Opals, and lands when you're pushing for damage.

Quote from Drekavac

Rants aside, I think that Vault Skirge should replace Memnite in "Modern" Affinity decks. Reason? Has more relevant abilities in the late game and can be played just as early as poor Memnite who doesn't fly or gain life. As you may have noticed during coverage Cranial Plating is completely bonkers with the little dude.

Having more 0-cost artifacts increases the chance of powering out Mox Opal earlier. You can do things like T1 Darksteel Citadel, Memnite/Ornithopter, Mox Opal, 2-drop. Or T1 Land, Memnite/Ornithopter, Springleaf Drum, 1-drop T2 Land, Mox Opal, Master of Etherium.

Quote from Drekavac

On the lord issue, i think only Master of Etherium is worthy of any consideration. Apart from pumping all your dudes he is a pretty big one himself, averaging on 7/7. Steel Overseer just doesn't compare to that (one thing that confuses me is that people who opt for him aren't playing AEther Vial).

Agreed, Master is the best lord because he actually can attack and block for quite a bit while pumping your dudes, unlike Overseer or Tempered Steel.

One minor advantage is that Steel Overseer's boosts stay when it dies, so you don't have to worry about the loss of your lord suddenly making blocks unfeasible.

I get around Steel Overseer's "dies to removal" with AEther Vial and Spellskite. Vial is damn good because it blanks counterspells and sorcery-speed removal. Plus, Vial effectively pays the mana for the creature. To anyone playing Affinity: VIAL IS AWESOME