Brutality is a good card, it really ties the deck together. I'm currently on a mix of Duress, Despise, IoK, Thoughtseize, and Brutality across 8 cards. It's not traditional but it's working well for me.
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Mar 16, 2018Playing a local paper league, it's 15 rounds (round robin) plus a top 8. I'm currently 7-0 with it. Figured I would write this at the halfway point since my schedule prevents me from finishing my games for the next week, and I don't want to forget some match details.Posted in: Midrange
Here's my list... it's pretty weird, but there was stuff I wanted to try, and metagame considerations I wanted to account for.
Round 1 - Vengevine (2-0). I don't remember much about this, except that in G2 I baited my opponents Lightning Bolt with a T2 Bob, untapped into T3 Glissa, and my opponent was never able to kill it. Plus I had a Spellbomb in hand so I started recuring it for a card per turn.
Round 2 - Zoo (2-0). Took out Goyf's in G2 expecting hate based on the number of cards my opponent was taking in/out (we have each others decklists). Hunch paid off as they had a T0 Leyline. Glissa stabilized the board, then Liliana took over.
Round 3 - Soul Sisters (2-1). Lost G1 to a Spectral Procession I wasn't able to answer as I drew only 1 removal spell all game (despite a live Bob for 8 turns). The anti Lingering Souls plan is pretty good against Procession though and I actually drew properly in the following games. Treetop Village gets an MVP here for letting me keep the board clear while interacting each turn.
Round 4 - Storm (2-0). Shredded the hand, Duress was real good to snipe Gifts and Past in Flames. Not much else to say about this match, it feels like a bye honestly.
Round 5 - D&T (2-0). Opponent was on a variant splashing red. He conceded game 1 super early because his opening hand was Field of Ruin, Aether Vial, Lightning Bolt, Blade Splicer, Blade Splicer, Flickerwisp, Restoration Anel. I went first and opened on fetch, thoughtseize, take vial followed by a T2 Goyf while he missed his land drop. Game 2 was more of a grind fest. I got to loop Engineered Explosives with Glissa and extract a ton of value out of both a Liliana of the Veil and a Chandra. Most of my value ended up going into topdecking lands, but the game ended with me up by something like 12 cards. Just for style points I ended it with a Chandra ultimate into triple Bolt (I had a back up win in hand if that didn't work). The deck has some absurd lines.
Round 6 - Goblins (2-0). Not much to say here, my opponents deck just wasn't functional.
Round 7 - Ponza (2-1). Lost a very close game 1 where I was trying to operate on 1-2 land per turn with double bob on the field. Eventually I trade off the Bobs into blocking Tireless Trackers. I needed my opponent to brick for one turn so I could untap and play a Collective Brutality in hand for a ping to kill them through an active Blood Moon. They hit the 4th Stone Rain of the match though and took out my Swamp. The game went for another 10+ turns past that but I was never able to do anything else and eventually lost to the ETB of an Inferno Titan. Games 2 and 3 went much better for me. In game 3 in particular I was able to loop Fulminator Mage several times and keep my opponent constrained to 2 mana for the majority of the game while game 2 was discard heavy. Despise took a Nissa, Duress got a Blood Moon, and so on.
So overall the decks working great. I know it's a few cards off from the traditional lists but it's working very well. The discard suite has been spot on, removal has been versatile, land drops are consistent, no colored mana issues, and it feels like I always have threats. Even the 5 basic plan has saved me a lot of life.
Quote from wtyyy »
And then you see that most of the lists putting up results are on 25, then you start to wonder.
I wouldn't put too much stock in that, better players are going to top more often and there's so much variance with such small sample sizes that you can't really draw any conclusions from what people are doing well with other than to say that those are the cards that are popular.
Quote from Spsiegel1987 »
And perhaps the 1 and 3 msns polarization is smart.
Curve is extremely important. The number of lands is pretty insignificant compared to having a good curve. The 1-3 thing is mostly based on the idea of having a hole in your curve on T2 so that you can go land, 1, tap land, 1, land, 3, land, 4. While that's a functional curve I'm not sure if that's the best way to go. Everything in moderation seems to be a good mantra here.
Mar 13, 2018Posted in: MidrangeQuote from Piney_Tinecones »Oh, and for the targeted discard split, 4/2 IoK/TS has to be right right now, right? Is anyone running the 3/3 split?
We have Brutality in the SB if we need to hit larger targets. I don’t feel like 3x TS is necessary (except when it is). And I too have been trying out that single Duress in the board and can recommend it based on my limited experience. It feels extremely good to use it and nail something crucial with it, and if you’re boarding it in, you probably have something crucial to hit. While we’re on it, which Duress do y’all prefer?
Everyone is going to disagree with me on this, but my MB discard right now is 2 Duress, 1 IoK, 2 Thoughtseize, 2 Brutality. Duress vs IoK is just a meta call, I seem to mostly be going up against decks where Duress is really good taking things like Scapeshift, Gifts Ungiven, Jace, Collected Company, and so on. I'll remove them when the meta shifts but they're well positioned at the moment. Basically, I'm weighting the ability to take spells and planeswalkers a lot higher than the ability to take random creatures, because I figure that's what I have the removal for.
Mar 11, 2018Posted in: MidrangeQuote from wtyyy »Joel Larsson was playing 9 3-drops in a 24 land build, with 4 Manlands and a Blooming Marsh.
Wonder how his mana felt and how much Bob hurt him all throughout. Still, can't argue with results.
This is a question my simulator can answer with minimal modifications (a good thing because I'm in the process of totally rewriting it). If there's enough interest I would be able to feed it decks of various mana curves and charting damage taken per turn/game so you can get an idea of what a single 5 drop does to you.
Mar 10, 2018Posted in: Midrange
It's a good card, but it misses too much. I remember the days where it was a 4 of. It just feels these days that between 4 mana creatures/planeswalkers, Tron cards, Delve guys, and so on that going too deep on it is a mistake. I have been considering some number in place of Terminates in a 2 Forest build, but even that ends up feeling wrong.
Mar 10, 2018Played a 5 round FNM last night, went 5-0 for first place. Played against Hollow One (2-1), Scapeshift (2-1), Affinity (2-1), Taking Turns (2-1), and Storm (2-0).Posted in: Midrange
Here's what I played
So, aside from it being 61 which I played just because I couldn't decide on a cut, a few things I noticed:
Kessig in the manabase was pretty terrible.
I'm rethinking 25 lands, 24+ Nissa might be ok, or alternatively just 25 without Nissa. Either way, I should take out the Kessig. If I leave Nissa in, 2 Forests is a must but if I play 25 without I'm starting to think that a 3 Swamp/1 Forest configuration with all black fetches might be best.
Twilight Mire was fantastic, it really helped with having some pain free openings.
On the spell front, Duress overperformed all night long and I was happy with it MB. I could see going up to a 5th discard spell but I'm not sure what I would add in that case. Duress saved a lot of life and had relevant targets against everything I played, and most stuff in the room. I also noticed the versatility and life savings. Being able to grab Gifts Ungiven from Storm, Time Warps, Scapeshifts, and so on was very helpful and more IoK's wouldn't have allowed for that. In particular, against Scapeshift I was able to leverage the ping mode on Brutality plus using Duress to put together a lot of hand disruption while staying at 19+ to dodge a 6 land Scapeshift.
I'm unsure about Dreadbore, I think I might rather just have the second Terminate.
Harsh Mentor was a pretty nice surprise against Affinity G1 and the damage from the triggered ability actually won me the game. Notably, Scavenging Ooze instead of Mentor would not have won it for me. That was the only time all night where I drew it though, and it would have been pretty useless at several other points. I should probably just make it another Scavenging Ooze.
Nissa was... interesting. I ended up drawing her a lot. In 14 games I drew her 5 times and in 3 of those situations she fulfilled the intended purpose of guaranteeing me 4 mana for Bloodbraid. The other two times I didn't cast her. Where she really came in handy though, was in opening hands where I could leverage her to use more Brutality modes on turn 2 while still ensuring I had enough resources. She never flipped, but I suspect she would in midrange games. I have gotten flips against decks like GDS. I'm unsure if I'll leave her in, when she's good she's great but when she's bad she's a dead card
The Chandra+Liliana combo was very potent against Affinity. They were actually in the list as a concession to Lingering Souls but I never played against that all night. What they did do was still enough though. I think Pyromaster is better positioned than Torch of Defiance right now, they both generate CA, but the ability to eliminate blockers or ping down x/1's is pretty great.
In the SB I would like a second Glissa just because it's so hard to beat in combat and Lightning Bolt is somewhat uncommon (though it's obviously around) and I would like a Grafdigger's Cage, likely over the Lavamancer. Another nice thing about Glissa is that it's a reasonable swap for Tarmogoyf when you suspect GY hate is coming in.
Mar 5, 2018Posted in: MidrangeQuote from Ayiluss »Sideboarding plan of Steve Rubin in the mirror was definitely weird. Siding out Bob can't be right and I don't think you want to keep discard in either.
I like his list otherwise and he also played well beside that sideboarding.
On the draw, I think you leave in Thoughtseize to nab BBE but you take out IoK, and have no discard on the play but I don't play the mirror much.
Mar 4, 2018Posted in: MidrangeQuote from Shodai »I regret trading my EE away several years ago now, will have to reacquire one. I remember how happy I was when I used to reveal it from a Bob trigger and take 0.
I always feel the same way about revealing a Slaughter Pact.
Mar 4, 2018Posted in: Magic GeneralQuote from Emperor Norton »Story Time! Someone correct me if I make any mistakes, I'm mostly going off memory here.
Basically, in 1995, Wizards printed a set called Chronicles, where they reprinted a ton of cards from Arabian Nights through The Dark with no regards to card values. Moreover, since these were also the Fallen Empires/Homelands days, they overprinted the crap out of Chronicles, causing the value of many of the most valuable early cards (that hadn't been printed enough to meet demand) to drop through the floor.
A vocal portion of the player base was not happy and expressed that they lost confidence in WotC. In response, WotC created the first version of the Reserve List as a promise not to tank card values (which made more sense in the mid-90's when they didn't dream people would still need old cards 20+ years later). This original Reserve List contained all cards - regardless of rarity - that hadn't yet been reprinted (if memory serves). Going forward from the creation of the RL, a portion of all new cards printed were added from each set (based on what Wizards thought would be valuable, I guess).
By the time Masques Block hit, they (wisely) decided to stop adding new cards to the list, as it simply wasn't sustainable as part of the game. Later (not sure of the exact year right off hand), Wizards removed all cards originally printed at Common or Uncommon from the list, hence why Mana Drain and Force of Will are no longer on the RL (as both were originally uncommon, believe it or not).
To add to this, they made a game out of which cards they would add to the RL at rare. Something like 20% of each set would be added, so Wizards adopted the practice of adding cards that they thought they wouldn't use again. In effect, cards that they knew would be collectors items post RL were spared the RL treatment so that they could be reprinted in the future. As a result, low power undesirable cards often wound up on the RL while cool ones didn't. This was a big factor in the discontinuation of adding new cards.
Mar 3, 2018Posted in: MidrangeQuote from Ayiluss »I also find GDS to be harder matchup for us than Traverse Shadow because of delve creatures and Snapcastr Mage. These are better against us than anything Traverse Shadow can produce except for Lingering Souls but most list are moving away from the white splash. However I still rather face Lingering Souls than delve creatures + Snapcaster Mage. Both are good matchups for Jund though. I played against both of them since unbans and won all matches so far. That said I feel comfortable playing against both of them with Jund which I can't say for the time before BBE.
How many cards are you running to beat Lingering Souls? I'm using 1 Maelstrom Pulse, 1 Liliana, the Last Hope, 1 Chandra, Pyromaster all MB that can trade with Souls at parity. 3 copies means they're going to have more spirits than we have answers though but so far it's been decent.
Mar 3, 2018Posted in: MidrangeQuote from FlyingDelver »
Before BBE we were definitely behind. Reid says that BBE makes it so that we become favoured. Cant really tell more about that yet though.
I'm not sure about pre BBE because I dropped Jund around the time GDS became a thing, but I play the GDS matchup a lot (it's a very popular deck locally) and I'm winning the vast majority of games. BBE helps a lot for sure though so Reid is almost certainly correct in saying that.
Traverse has a higher threat density so that one is probably more even, or perhaps in their favor.
Mar 3, 2018Posted in: MidrangeQuote from Hype_rion »Cutting Push entirely means giving up on the mirror and against DS entirely imo.
Could you also elobarate why you are adding Lavamancer to the mb as I don't currently feel we have problems against small creatures (LtLH also helps a lot already here). I love him in the sb, but only in specific matchups.
You can beat DS without Push. I play a 3-1 split of Bolt/Push in my deck. The 1 of isn't that relevant. We seem to be really favored against DS.
Mar 3, 2018Posted in: MidrangeQuote from Hype_rion »Vastwood Seer is a card I would never even consider in Jund, simply not good enough.
I'm not going to claim that it's the best card ever or something but for what I'm looking for it has made sense. I prefer 26 land for the consistency of hitting 4 drops on time (particularly through mulligans) given how powerful BBE is. However, I would rather not have the higher chance of flooding. So basically it's 26th land vs a card that gives me mana. Jund doesn't have any good mana dorks so that's not an option, it does however have Nissa which can help you curve into a 4 drop, is a strong cascade hit late game when the forest enables playing another land and playing bbe+2 drop in the same turn, and in grind fests it flips into a 4/4 that then draws you an additional card per turn.
Is it the best card in the deck? Not really. But for what I'm looking for it seemed to make enough sense to give it a try. So far I've been happy with it in the midrange matchups but I haven't fully decided on if I want to keep it in the list. It could always become Maelstrom Pulse #2 or something.
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